Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H)

“Tourism, Creative Industry and Performing Arts Minister Dato Sri Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah said currently S-MM2H pass holders are only required to stay for 15 days.

In August 2022, to ensure the S-MM2H programme continues to benefit Sarawak, further refinement was proposed to enhance Requirements and Regulations of S-MM2H programme for consideration of extension or renewal of Visa,” he said in a statement issued during a news conference here yesterday.

Abdul Karim said other requirements maintained include the mandatory fixed deposit of RM150,000 for individuals or RM300,000 for couples at any local bank in Sarawak.

Proof of pension funds and offshore incomes are also required to demonstrate financial capability of applicants to support themselves while living in Sarawak."

Doesn't he say that the requirement will also apply to extensions and reapplications? There is not statement that those who applied before Sep 2020 or before Sep 2022 will be able to reapply under their original conditions. If they reapply they will be subject to the new rule THEN.

So that would mean, reading the statements most generously, that if someone like me who has a reapplication in December 2022 under the rules before  1) I would not have to show proof of domicile since my original requirement did not have such a restriction...but the next reapplication I would have to show I have fulfilled a 1 month/year requirement. But more importantly...
2) I would have to submit both a proof of previous 3 months gov't pension or 6 months income PLUS demonstrate that I have submitted a Fixed Deposit in order to receive the visa. This is now a requirement for extension or reapplication.

Wouldn't they say that these requirements only apply to new applicants...which of course would mean, without saying, it would apply to THEIR extensions and reapplications?  But they specifically stated it applies to extensions and reapplications.
- @cinnamonape
@cinnamonape
With your renewal coming up so soon, perhaps you should seek clarification from an agent? Here is what one told me yesterday:

"According to my conversation with the Permanent Secretary of Tourism, those who applied before 1 Sept will be grandfathered in."

I had asked him about my circumstances, having been accepted on SMM2H in 2019, so I assume the Sept he refers to is 2020. I asked him to respond in this thread, but it seems he's pretty swamped at the moment.
"According to my conversation with the Permanent Secretary of Tourism, those who applied before 1 Sept will be grandfathered in."

I think that could mean simply that their new applications will not be required to demonstrate the SALARY/PENSION + FD. But the extension or reapplication WILL BE.

All that means is that they made it under the wire ...for now. But at extension or reapplication.

I don't think they are clear what "grandfathered in" means (i.e. kept to the terms of the original contract/offer).

That's what the Ministers statement suggests.  At least I have a reason to contact the Ministry directly to "clarify".
In my opinion this is END of S-MM2H program. The program was mainly for over 50's who is interested in retiring in Sarawak and the previous financial requirement was spot on as the retirees always have fixed income and enough for living a good life in Sarawak. But under the new rules if I've to put RM300k in FD and also show them RM10k offshore income then simply it is not an option for me. So I will not be reapply for renewal. I was never intended to work in Sarawak and I will have no other benefits except a visa sticker on my passport.

I am spending an average RM10k every month while staying in Sarawak. And I'm sure all other existing s-mm2h visa holders are spending the same. So if this is not good enough for the authorities and force us to pay that astronomical 300k in FD during renewal, then I believe no one would be interested in renewal. Which will bring this brilliant program to its end.
I still have hope that the Malaysian government will see the light and change back to something "reasonable" with respect to the MM2H programs.  To hear that over 1K have pulled out should ring a bell somewhere in Hamzah's head, no?  That is a fair amount of money leaving the country and let's be honest that means even more vacant RE out there. 

Whatever happened to the JB Sultan who is supposedly pretty powerful and influential?  Obviously, he has skin in the game, so why has nothing been done yet per his persuasive skills?  We certainly can't have a Sultan losing money....

Is it reasonable to assume/expect something may change positively from the upcoming elections perhaps?

I just got my visa sticker in Feb under the old rules since I was approved Pre-covid, so I guess I have at least 7 years before my passport expires and I would need to reapply.  Well, let's see what happens in that 7 years...

Hello.  Has anyone recently got their MM2H Visit Pass extended or transferred to a new passport?  I would like to know that for such a purpose, do I need to submit them a full photocopy of both my old and new passports, meaning every page of the passports?

I tried to call them many times but they never respond these days.

Ok, gang, another MM2H program to come......



https://www.expatgo.com/my/2022/09/20/s … programme/

@VWC

This has a little more information. It does seem that they realised the Federal Program revisions were a failure. Their goal of RM1 billion seems a bit high. If they sold one thousand RM1 million homes they might reach that. So they shouldn't reach for multimillionaires. They would need to target a lot of people to reach 1000 that would invest in in Sabah property. It's not unreachable but should be a long-term project. In addition, they might need to sweeten the pot by offering an easy way to an employment visa and easy extension.


https://www.dailyexpress.com.my/news/19 … cond-home/


They should not worry so much about requisite FD's unless the recipient can pull much more out of that for the property.


As well they should realize that rentals are actually also supporting the property investment market. A local who purchases a RM1m investment property rents to a MM2H holder at RM3000/month would generate RM36,000/year or RM360,000 in a decade. If there is no appreciation on the property they would still net that amount. That's RM360,000 into the economy from abroad. A MM2H recipient who buys a RM 1m property, lives in that property for a decade, and sells it at that price (then leaves) actually contributes less. That is why one needs to focus just as much on rentals as purchases. At least long-term.

SHAREDA is mainly looking at property purchases, a short-term scale. But investors that rent or sell to MM2H holders are part of the downstream ecosystem. That's the secondary market spurring development.


Annual Household Expenditures: A quick, off-the-cuff calculation on 500 MM2H recipients per year spending RM6000/month (average of RM5000-RM7000) not including dependents. Lets say half are year round and half are two month- that averages 7 months stay. So RM6000 x 7 x 500 for Year 1. That's spending in Sabah of RM 21 million annually. I'm assuming rent/hotel and/or mortgage in that.

That's year one -RM21m. Now they will spend that amount in year two of their visas but will be joined by 500 new recipients. So year 2 = RM42million. Year three another 500 recipients arrive = RM63million; Year 4 =84 million; Year 5 =RM105million; Year 6 = RM126 million; Year 7 = RM147 million; Year 8 =RM168 million; Year 9 =RM189 million; Year 10 = 210 million annual expenditures by Sabah MM2H recipients. What's the cumulative foreign contribution over a decade? RM 1 billion, 115 million total expenditures. Just from 500 Primary Recipients who are not all staying year-round in Sabah.

That averages to be about RM111.5 million expenditures annually averaged over the decade.


Now if the Immigration Department charges an annual RM500/year fee what will it gain. Let's say half the recipients have spouses. Thus you have 750 new fee paying applicants annually (not even including student pass holders or other dependents). How many fee paying years will there be. Let's say 10 on average, though there may be some losses due to death and divorce, but there may also be extensions into longer years.

For those 750 Year 1 Recipients : 750x10 yrs xRM500 = RM3.75 million for the term of their visa+renewal. But even if the program remains stable at 750 recipients each year...that'll mean one will have 7500 total recipients over a decade. So RM37.5 million paid in fees over a decade. Not counting other dependents.


Agents fees: RM10,000 per recipient x 500 recipients = RM5million/year. Or RM50 million over a decade.


Bank Benefits: I'm not a big fan of the Fixed Deposit as a means of injecting foreign-earned income into the economy. That's because it sits and collects interest without actually being spent. In fact it can make someone who unwillingly has to place one more stingy and spend less than they otherwise would. Still it assists the bank in generating liquidity, and assists the Federal Treasury in supporting the Ringgit. But a similarly large checking/debit/savings account would do much the same...and be spent locally. There are withdrawals for property purchase, medical care, school tuition, and (perhaps) a vehicle purchase. But because the minimum floor on the deposit is so high at least half that amount will be remitted back to the home country. Is that really smart? The amount of money in a Fixed Deposit is not, therefore as valuable an investment for Sabah as daily household expenditures.


But let's say we are just looking at FD's. If they are optional and 50% of the applicants decide to use that rather than income as their proof of solvency how much will the banks benefit. 250 Recipients x RM300,000 = RM75 million!!! For the first year recipient pool alone. The following year that will increase to RM150million. Then to RM225 million. Over a decade that amount will be RM750 million. Of course this may be reduced by approved withdrawals buy as much as 40% but that is an immense cumulative amount. The problem is that more than 60% of that will eventually walk out of the economy - unspent locally. One way to help solve this problem is to encourage that the FD is spent locally by allowing withdrawals for ANY Sabahan good, product, service, rent (thus encouraging people to stay in Sabah longer), tours, etc.


But if one mandates an FD AND an income/pension ~ it will result in a serious reduction of the qualifying applicant pool. Banks may actually get only 5-10% of the number of FD's due to attrition from the qualifying applicant pool and loss of renewals. They will lose many who opted for the FD but cannot prove sufficient income/pension. Conversely they will also lose the other savings/debit/checking and various other investments that the Sabah MM2H may make. That's both from those that cannot afford or are unwilling to establish a substantial low-interest yielding FD...who would be applying by the pension/income option....but also from the many that are leaving that preferred a FD option (but can't show qualifying salary/pension).


Banks, developers, and politicians must be careful not to become too greedy and simply think that they can generate more income by raising prices or requirements. Economics doesn't work that way, particularly when you are dealing with consumer behaviour.

@cinnamonape


Send this to Hamzah.  The guy is more stubborn than Donald Trump (if that is possible)

@Pat87 Hi there, sorry for late reply, I am right now at KL and decided to have my agent draft my resignation letter and then go to the Bank in person to get my monies out. Cost of it is MYR 750 , I will go this route as I'm busy with many things right now. Will post here , how it went




Given the lousy Fx right now vs USD, I have been told it's possible to withdraw funds under lien, park them in a local bank waiting for greener pastures for the MYR Fx , and only then wire them out .


Is it possible to open an account here as a foreigner, once MM2H is cancelled ? I don't want to take a huge loss on my initial deposit, but I don't want  to have my monies stuck in a local bank unable to wire them out at my discretion later on either


Any experience out there with OCBC bank ?

Thanks and cheers


@topazarHi Topazar,
I read that you're flying to KL to terminate your MM2H. I will make a trip end of this year to transfer my current MM2H visa to my new passport, but I am also thinking about terminating it altogether due to the new requirements.Do you know if we have to go the the address below for such MM2H termination / transfer? When I applied for MM2H a few years ago, the address was different since the program was under Culture and Tourism Ministry.
Immigration Department of Malaysia Headquarters
(Ministry of Home Affairs)
No. 15, 1-7 Floor, (Podium)
Persiaran Perdana, Presint 2,
62550 Putrajaya.
And what time we shall be there in order to get processed on the same day? In the past, people had to go to the other buiding before 8am (or earlier) in order to a ticket.
It would be great if you could share your experience of your MM2H termination trip.
[email protected]

Topazar~ I don't think you can open a bank account in Malaysia once your MM2H is cancelled unless you have another visa. You never got a separate Malaysian bank account? I'd set up the lien account prior to cancellation.


I think you'll need to cancel your MM2H before the bank will allow the withdrawal/transfer.

MM2H is not handled exclusively through IMMIgration. Tourism has nothing to do with MM2H anymore.


They have their own floor/unit at the IMI building in Putrajaya...and since applications are nearly zero they are only handling withdrawals and transfers for the most part. I don't think you'll need an appointment.


@Pat87~Topazar

The below gives the documentation needed for transfers between an old and new passport, and also for cancellation of the visa.



https://www.imi.gov.my/index.php/en/mai … e-mmh2-en/

Thanks Cinnamon,


Yeah, that was my guess, I will open it prior to cancellation and let the funds be parked there, until I see a better Fx , we are now at all times low and I am reluctant to take the loss in full.


Thanks for your help

@topazar ..

Hi.just qurious..why are u wanting to cancel smm2h...I an from south Africa an on my way to malaysia to get my smm2h...am I missing somthing

In the ongoing saga of Sarawak MM2H there are two bits of news.

Those who already have an S-MM2H visa will have the same regulations of their current letter through the full term of the visa (10 years). There will be no changes in the conditions at the five year extension mark. However I know of at least one individual now at his 10 year renewal and they are making him submit a new application under the new terms.


That means that those renewing their SMM2H will likely have to demonstrate BOTH the proof of INCOME (pension/salary RM7000/mo (single) or RM10,000/mo (couple) as well as establish a fixed deposit (RM150,000 (single)/RM300,000 (couple).


The second bit of news is a little more positive. Because of the concerns voiced by agents that they would lose many of the prospective applicants The Sarawak Ministry of Tourism has decided to expand their definition of INCOME to more than proof of Salary/Government-Approved Pension. In lieu of the preceding two "proofs" they will also now allow the applicant to prove that they have a savings deposit of the equivalent of RM100,000 (couple)/RM50,000(single) in a foreign bank at application. The savings deposit must be above that baseline for the prior six months. I presume that this money can later be used for the Fixed Deposit.


What happens at the 5 year first extension is not clear. Under the new rules  one has to demonstrate that one has both the FD and proof of sufficient funds to survive  (pension/salary). If one has selected this option 9nstead of salary/pension does one have to have that savings deposit in full at the 5 year extension?


By trying to "fix" the problem they have made the program very complicated, it seems.


***

Jerry

@topazar ..
Hi.just qurious..why are u wanting to cancel smm2h...I an from south Africa an on my way to malaysia to get my smm2h...am I missing somthing
[email protected] mahomed

Hi Zareena,


Topazar was in the Federal MM2H program, not the Sarawak MM2H (which despite the new changes remains accessible financially for more people/new applicants). Last year the FEDERAL MM2H increased the requirements to RM40,000/month salary/pension + RM1 million Fixed Deposit + RM 1.5million Foreign Assets. In addition they introduced a three month minimum residence requirement, introduced an application fee of  RM5000 (principal) and RM2500 (dependent), and increased the visa fee to RM500/year (i.e. RM5000 for a ten year visa).


Those conditions were simply too onerous for many and not only did applications plummet to a handful (from a peak of 5000/year) but there was also an attrition rate of between 2000-2500 for renewals. SThere may be many reasons to withdraw from MM2H. Some may have just decided to cancel their visas due to Covid (many were upset that they could not easily return to Malaysia due to quarantine and travel restrictions). . But others have cancelled because of the new conditions. And some may have just decided to move to another country.


A few who were previously on the Federal MM2H have decided to move to Sarawak and apply for the S-MM2H. But to do this they cannot have another Malaysian visa in their passport (whether an employment, student, spousal or MM2H visa). One can only have one visa at a time and for some reason they have get the visa cancelled at the original issuing Immigration office. So even though they are applying for another type of MM2H (in the case SMM2H) they need to cancel their old MM2H prior to applying for the SMM2H

.

The requirements for the visa now ask for 1.5 million deposit (and/or?) 40,000 a month income. That is West Malaysia ... which is where I wanted to live.


That is a lot of money. How many wannabe residents have that?


If that is YOU ... can I marry you?


Maybe the government wants to be rid of resident foreigners, but cannot be open about it? Seems an easy way to lose your ex-pats.


Anyway, I will keep my eye out for any changes. Sarawak is not right for me as I have kids to think about.

@Boomeranng


I believe that 1.5M is in assets not the FD which is 1M.  What a deal right????

@Boomeranng ,ok I agree with your idea

The requirements for the visa now ask for 1.5 million deposit (and/or?) 40,000 a month income. That is West Malaysia ... which is where I wanted to live.
That is a lot of money. How many wannabe residents have that?

If that is YOU ... can I marry you?

Maybe the government wants to be rid of resident foreigners, but cannot be open about it? Seems an easy way to lose your ex-pats.

Anyway, I will keep my eye out for any changes. Sarawak is not right for me as I have kids to think about.
[email protected]

Need to proof you have 1.5 million liquid assets & monthly offshore income 40k.


upon conditional approval, you need to put 1 million FD in Malaysia bank.

@Boomeranng This is one of the reasons why we were hoping for Kota Kinabalu to benefit from a new Sabah-MM2H program. KK seems to offer more than Kuching for expat families with children. Ideally it will offer visas based on home purchases without the need for silly deposits, which no one really wants.

Let's all hope that the new PM Anwar is aware that foreign investment through programs such as MM2H is vital and anything to jumpstart the economy should be done now.  I am sure the Sultan of Johor Bahru is already in his ear, complaining about the new rules.


I am in JB now for several weeks visiting the inlaws.  I was worried about the weather (rainy season) but it actually hasn't been too bad.  It did rain hard last night.


One area I am impressed with is Senibong Cove.  Reminds me of Gurney area in Penang.....

@cinnamonape Has anyone here recently renewed their second 5 year of the 10 year visa? Can you confirm that the conditions didn't change and that you still only had to have either income OR deposit? Just that the goal posts keep moving so would be good to get a recent one.

@cinnamonape regards the "Those who already have an S-MM2H visa will have the same regulations of their current letter through the full term of the visa (10 years). There will be no changes in the conditions at the five year extension mark", has anyone recently renewed for their second 5 year visa and can confirm the conditions didn't change, including only having either income OR deposit?