Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H)

There is no argument that the MM2H program helps Malaysia economy and both the MM2H participants and the country mutually benefits from the program.
Malaysia economy, even during this Covid-19, is light years ahead of Uganda's or Zimbabwe's during the period mentioned. Malaysia economy and political system will not collapse even if the entire MM2H program is discontinued.   
If Malaysia economy were heavily dependent on the MM2H program as being portrayed, then I would agree with everything said: Politicians here are idiots for making decisions that affect the program that is considered a lifeline for their country economy and currency. But that is simply not the case.
Low skilled labor and foreign professionals are very important to many countries. Like in US, there are certain jobs the Americans don't like to do such as agriculture and some other work.  Foreign professionals also move the country forward. Hence to say that the MM2H program participants help the economy more than the low-level skill workers and skilled professionals in the country seems overreaching.
I also doubt that Malaysia, as a result of the new requirements, will not get MM2H participants and the entire MM2H will cease. It is too peaceful and beautiful of a place to be deserted 😊

Kovu01 wrote:

There is no argument that the MM2H program helps Malaysia economy and both the MM2H participants and the country mutually benefits from the program.
Malaysia economy, even during this Covid-19, is light years ahead of Uganda's or Zimbabwe's during the period mentioned. Malaysia economy and political system will not collapse even if the entire MM2H program is discontinued.   
If Malaysia economy were heavily dependent on the MM2H program as being portrayed, then I would agree with everything said: Politicians here are idiots for making decisions that affect the program that is considered a lifeline for their country economy and currency. But that is simply not the case.
Low skilled labor and foreign professionals are very important to many countries. Like in US, there are certain jobs the Americans don't like to do such as agriculture and some other work.  Foreign professionals also move the country forward. Hence to say that the MM2H program participants help the economy more than the low-level skill workers and skilled professionals in the country seems overreaching.
I also doubt that Malaysia, as a result of the new requirements, will not get MM2H participants and the entire MM2H will cease. It is too peaceful and beautiful of a place to be deserted 😊

You're batting 1.000, you keep on hitting the nail on the head.

The country is FAR more focused on bringing in tech companies and TRAINING MALAYSIANS to work for those companies, than regular individuals... and the only individuals they want now are HNW--It's really that simple.

Just yesterday Finance Minister Tengku Datuk Seri Zafrul Abdul Aziz said:

“We believe, and I know for a fact that, more global players are finalising similar investments in Malaysia, which we will announce soon under the MyDIGITAL initiative,”

Tengku Zafrul said this in a virtual interview with Singapore's The Straits Times titled “Beyond the Pandemic: Malaysia's Way Forward” today.

According to the Finance Minister, Malaysia is confident of attracting more global players in building data centres in the country moving forward.

The government is expected to announce investments similar to Microsoft Corporation's multi-billion ringgit data center investment in the near future.

They're trying to become a high-income nation, they're not worried about MM2H... Again, it sucks to hear... but, MM2H isn't nearly as important to Malaysia's government as expats want to feel they are.

BTW, the argument that real estate developers would be hurt is really a moot point for most Malaysians. They already feel that property prices have been outpacing salaries and most of the biggest developers are Chinese or have been selling out to people living overseas.

Exactly they advertised it that way they got 7k peoples money and FD and had to do what for that exactly? Yeah nothing! Depending on their age they got minimum $40kx7000 just for FD. And if they were under 50 well then it's $80k
That's a lot of money just to sit in the bank there and support the ringgit!

Interesting read https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia … DMtSAoECEg

1openmind wrote:

Exactly they advertised it that way they got 7k peoples money and FD and had to do what for that exactly? Yeah nothing! Depending on their age they got minimum $40kx7000 just for FD. And if they were under 50 well then it's $80k
That's a lot of money just to sit in the bank there and support the ringgit!

1. You don't have to hold the entire amount in the bank the whole time.
2. 7,000 holders doesn't mean 7,000 deposits, it just means 7,000 holders
3. There is around RM421 BIL in cash reserves in Malaysian banking institutions right now. Let that sink in as you guys keep on talking about how important MM2H is to the Malaysian economy.

Source: World Bank https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FI … cations=MY

You guys talk about your personal spending like you're Mansa Musa going on Hajj, just destroying the gold market along the way.

BTW, Malaysia brought in a BILLION ringgit in FD the week of Sabri's appointment.

Global investors have NO problem with what's happening and most don't care about MM2H at all.

From a macro level Malaysia's policies haven't changed much.

And this talk about Malaysia missing MM2H money is kinda silly considering Malaysia still brought in RM12.7 BIL in tourism receipts in 2020... Even with COVID-19's travel restrictions...

18 years of MM2H spending is about the same as 3.2 months of tourism receipts.

It's really that simple.

Yeah they should abolish it they don't need mm2h money. You win just wonder why all the real estate market is in full panic mode?
Nah it can't be because of mm2h selling their properties and and then adding no more buyers either. That should help that market for buyers.
So wonder why they made the real estate market limits so high for mm2h? America doesn't dictate what prices a foreigner must spend on property here? But Malaysia says 1,000,000 min some
Areas 2 million. Now they own it and can't sell it for what they paid, and only 10% of the 57k qualify for the new requirements. The other 9% won't join in with that outrageous FD deposit when they can go elsewhere.
Fuck Malaysia much better country to retire too.

1openmind wrote:

Yeah they should abolish it they don't need mm2h money. You win just wonder why all the real estate market is in full panic mode?
Nah it can't be because of mm2h selling their properties and and then adding no more buyers either. That should help that market for buyers.
So wonder why they made the real estate market limits so high for mm2h? America doesn't dictate what prices a foreigner must spend on property here? But Malaysia says 1,000,000 min some
Areas 2 million. Now they own it and can't sell it for what they paid, and only 10% of the 57k qualify for the new requirements. The other 9% won't join in with that outrageous FD deposit when they can go elsewhere.
Fuck Malaysia much better country to retire too.

There were 57,500 MM2H visas ever issued, right? And out of that number 28,249 of them were actual principals, not dependents. Let's just be SUPER generous and say that every one of them bought two homes over the 18 years (which isn't likely, since a married couple would count as two principals instead of one). 

Then you're talking about 56,498 properties purchased in 18 years... Or 3,138 properties a year.

Prior to COVID-19 there were around 200,000 properties sold Malaysia during each of the last two fiscal years (FY '18 & FY '19).

So you're telling me that Malaysia's real estate market collapsed because 1.5% of all possible purchases per year dried up?

Malaysia's real estate market dried up because the economy was literally halted (even movement), the country's biggest revenue driver (petroleum) fell by over 20%, its biggest foreign investor market (China) literally reinforced their capital controls, and all foreign buyers were also kept out (like all of Singapore's buyers clamoring to get back in... Singapore alone accounts for RM43 billion per year in spending in Malaysia)... due to travel restrictions.

Not because MM2H stopped.

If you don't like it then you can always give your money to Thailand, Portugal, Costa Rica, and Panama.

FireRooster1 wrote:

BTW, Malaysia brought in a BILLION ringgit in FD the week of Sabri's appointment.

Global investors have NO problem with what's happening and most don't care about MM2H at all.

From a macro level Malaysia's policies haven't changed much.

And this talk about Malaysia missing MM2H money is kinda silly considering Malaysia still brought in RM12.7 BIL in tourism receipts in 2020... Even with COVID-19's travel restrictions...

18 years of MM2H spending is about the same as 3.2 months of tourism receipts.

It's really that simple.

Well, I don't know about you but I love multiple streams of income.  I suspect Malaysia feels the same way about all of their initiatives and programs including the MM2H.  Yes, they may have determined that a fair amount of the MM2H participants were downing more than their share of free drinks instead of  emptying their wallets in the casino but does it make sense to limit a casino to only high rollers?  I say no, because at the end of the day I want to appeal to as much people as possible .  Of course, folks with no money needn't apply. 

Let's not forget how Malaysia benefits from always being named as a top 10 retirement spot in the world.  That is free advertisement baby, that drives tourism income toward Malaysia's way.  Also, think about the positive messaging that is broadcasted all over the world when your country is where seniors or retirees chose to enjoy their last chapters of their lives. Surely, if that is the case, this country must be awfully wonderful, no?  That, is pure gold advertising that you do not want to ever lose.

Yeah they are tarnishing whatever image they had for MM2h and foreigners.
We visited Malaysia several times. It was OK but wasn't great. Thailand has way more to see and do than Malaysia. And their beaches are about 100x better.
Nightlife is a lot better. Drinks are cheaper. The only reason I was considering Malyasia over Thailand was the international school fees were a lot less avg in Thailand is about $10k a year for 1-6 grade. Malaysia $2400 to $18k a year depending on the school. Avg about $5k for a good school.
But I am not rich like firecock so I might join the Sarawak mm2h and live on that side where USD $3-4k a month dumped into the local economy will actually be appreciated. But who knows? Maybe Thailand is better or the Philippines? I've been all over asia. China is pretty cool too.

There's investment...and then there's wickedly profitable investment. I used to work in a business and asked one of the executives why we carried a certain line of items in every store when it only sold moderately well and really didn't seem to fit our business profile.

He said "Yeah, we've thought about this...but here's the cost...and here's the profit (90%)...and even though it does sell a lot it brings in vastly more profit monthly than these items (1-2%). So that's why. In essence, that one item pays for your next pay raise and keeps the store in the black."

So yeah, there were some billion rupiah technology agreements made last week that were ballyhooed quite highly. But what was the cost in terms of land and services and tax breaks that lured the tech companies to Malaysia vs. Thailand or Vietnam? How much of this investment are items like servers that are imported, the salaries of overseas staff, etc. that will not directly benefit the Malaysian economy. How many local employees will be hired, trained, etc.?

MM2H has virtually no overhead as far as I can see. Maybe a few civil service employees that would still be paid and work less (probably playing some game on their mobile or tweeting family and friends).

Now...think about this. Those 7000 folks that may or may not be principals. If they are dependents that MAY come here that still is a determinant of whether someone may choose the program.

Imagine if you (the principal visa holder) had paid for your Mom's visa to come to Malaysia in the future...or your teenage daughter? Then suddenly the government says..."sorry we are revoking your mothers visa" or "your children can't come". That'd piss me off.

It's just as bad as telling ME (the person with the Fixed Account) that the agreement made that my dependents could get visas was just a pile of buffalo dung. So you throw out the 7000 dependants and you are likely to have the 7000+ parents WHO DO HAVE THE FD's also drop the program.

Now certainly people may have withdrawn money from those FD's. So maybe instead of RM300K it might now be at at RM200K. What did they use that RM for? Lemme see..,maybe property.

Which will have to be sold and then that amount of money will leave the economy. Maybe some depreciation because the market is weakened because other MM2H are leaving too. Ditto with a car bought using the FD. Causing a glut of property and second-hand cars and reducing the market in new homes, condos and vehicles. That and the fact that no NEW MM2H recipients  (those rules) will come in to replace those departing buyers. The FD can also be used to pay for schooling...that has been at least partially used perhaps. But the international school will lose a student (paid through other NON-MM2H foreign accounts) for the future.  Ditto for the use of the FD for medical costs...the loss of the visa holder who would then be using personal or insurance funds (converted into ringgit). Opportunity cost.

So even if some of that money is converted into money that has flowed into the economy its still (if not more so) a measure of the benefit of the MM2H recipient to the local economy.

Rent vs. buying. Renting is financially intelligent if you are mobile, going to kick the bucket soon, or don't have the cash to pay the down payment..but most economists point out that renters over about 5 years would likely pay more than a home/condo buyer that sells that place.  Let's say that there is no appreciation at all in the RM1mn property, and that maintenance/ repair/upgrade costs when the seller leaves is about RM20K.
So a renter might be paying RM3000/month x 12x5 years =  RM180,000. Assuming your landlord is a Malaysian that's money the renter is putting into the economy.

Now if you bought and lived in the place you'd have zero rent...so you save RM180K... add on the maintenance and other fees.  Even if sold at the same price that it was purchased for the condo would accrue RM160,000 in profit. Some of that will accrue capital gains and be taxed. But you're still likely to walk out of Malaysia with RM1,120,000. One million of that was your equal to your money from abroad. You paid the initial amount to a local...possibly the amount going out si a local...or maybe a expat employee of a High Tech firm Euros in, Euros out.

Some here say the MM2H is nothing but chump change. Maybe that's true like you say it costs them very little for all that money flowing into their country.
Now let me say for those 57,000 they did have how much money did each one spend in Malaysia?
It's hard to calculate? Let's say that each one spend from $18,000 usd to $40k a year how many ringgit is that. This is on top of the FD. Food, entertainment, travel, hotels. Not to mention cellphone cable tv and internet. I bet they spend way more than the avg. Malaysian spends in a year.

$25,000 x 4.2 ringgit per mm2h family that's about 6 billion ringgit per year. That's a little bit of chump change I guess?

Avg. wage in 2019 was $22,800 for a Malaysian. That's the higher end. Depending on the job it could be a lot less. Now that's their total wage. They have to pay taxes out of that amount.

that.https://destinationscanner.com/average-salary-in-malaysia/

Those tourism receipts in 2020? Quarantine hotels...or so-called domestic tourism. Oh and the tourists who weree stuck here. Someone eventually reached the brilliant decision to allow them to stay and spend money...although Sabri announced several times that they were all going to be kicked out in weeks.

No entry tourist passes or visas were issued after March 2020.

There was virtually no international money coming in for tourism except for those trapped tourists. Some backpacker places stayed open and even some condos were rented long term.

Those numbers included Malaysian citizens flying home from abroad to get out of Covid afflicted areas, and students and workers flying back to be with their families domestically.

That's how loose Malaysia measures its domestic tourism revenue.

But MM2H is an international flow into the economy. Why would anyone throw that money away? The costs are neglible and it generates comnpartively huge revenue. One doen't have to invest in heavy overhead events like the Sepang Grand Prix or the Southeast Asia Games with new facilities, or build bespoken entertainment attractions.

Offer the visa...they come.

*******

But most sectors of the economy are not really areas that the Cabinet or PM can directly influence too much as the forces involved are out of their control by and large.

This policy is one fully in their control. In scale it is comparable with the amounts in this other Cabinet-level policy. In September 2020, the alleged amount stolen from 1MDB was estimated to be US$4.5 billion and a Malaysian government report listed 1MBD's outstanding debts to be at US$7.8 billion. RM2.6bn were found to have been tied to accounts in the name of then-PM Najib.

One could argue that this robbery was minuscule compared to the total Malaysian economy, ergo it really doesn't matter. Why get upset at such a loss? On the scale of the economy 1MDB (and much smaller crimes) are just "coffee money". Or that it took place over years and thus really should be looked at on a per capita basis.

But I doubt that many people view it this way. 1MDb had down-stream negative political effects that reflected upon the Malaysian economy as relatively corruption-free, with an astute and business-minded leadership that could be trusted with money. It impacted the investment market, politics, the trust of government  by the rakyat.

Hamzah Unmoved by Pleas to Reconsider MM2H Changes

According to Malaysia's Home Minister, the changes to the MM2H programme are here to stay, and the government will not entertain the myriad calls for reconsideration.

From all quarters, the pleas came fast and furious, urging the government to rethink its changes to the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme, announced on August 11. Everyone from business leaders and organisations to embassies to affected individuals to Members of Parliament to the Sultan of Johor spoke out, some forcefully, saying the dramatic upheaval of the MM2H programme would backfire and ultimately cause harm to Malaysia's economy and international reputation. By early September, the government announced it would indeed take another look at the revised requirements.

In the end, however, that turned out not to be the case, and the pleas for a more realistic set of MM2H requirements appear to have fallen on deaf ears.

Anyone hoping the government would back down on their planned changes to the rules and requirements for the MM2H programme is surely disappointed. In a question-and-answer session in parliament on September 14, Minister of Home Affairs Hamzah Zainudin made it clear that he does not want to change anything. It seems the pleas of many people and organisations to reconsider the new rules have not impressed him.

The only concession he made was that he would look at renewals from existing visa holders on a case-by-case basis. This implies the government will not approve all renewals and is willing to go back on their promise not to apply change in rules to existing visa holders. That will certainly not be received well internationally, and some business chambers fear it will discourage foreign direct investment when they learn Malaysia does not keep its promises.

Cobolin wrote:

Hamzah Unmoved by Pleas to Reconsider MM2H Changes

According to Malaysia's Home Minister, the changes to the MM2H programme are here to stay, and the government will not entertain the myriad calls for reconsideration.

From all quarters, the pleas came fast and furious, urging the government to rethink its changes to the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme, announced on August 11. Everyone from business leaders and organisations to embassies to affected individuals to Members of Parliament to the Sultan of Johor spoke out, some forcefully, saying the dramatic upheaval of the MM2H programme would backfire and ultimately cause harm to Malaysia's economy and international reputation. By early September, the government announced it would indeed take another look at the revised requirements.

In the end, however, that turned out not to be the case, and the pleas for a more realistic set of MM2H requirements appear to have fallen on deaf ears.

Anyone hoping the government would back down on their planned changes to the rules and requirements for the MM2H programme is surely disappointed. In a question-and-answer session in parliament on September 14, Minister of Home Affairs Hamzah Zainudin made it clear that he does not want to change anything. It seems the pleas of many people and organisations to reconsider the new rules have not impressed him.

The only concession he made was that he would look at renewals from existing visa holders on a case-by-case basis. This implies the government will not approve all renewals and is willing to go back on their promise not to apply change in rules to existing visa holders. That will certainly not be received well internationally, and some business chambers fear it will discourage foreign direct investment when they learn Malaysia does not keep its promises.

This is certainly not great news, but not surprising.  The reality is that fewer people will qualify or want to apply anyway, so the number of apps will drop.  Once reality sets in, the government will change its mind again but sadly that will be too late since some folks will have found alternatives (so why leave again or change?).  Or, people will just go with the other MM2H programs offered as long as they are easier and still in play.

I still think the Sultan of Johor will do something.  There is too much money at stake and he is not going to stand for losing out on that money.

I say, stay tuned....

They want higher quality people but they allow 1000's of lowlife illegals in. Makes perfect sense.
Add to that he's calling the MM2H'ers a bunch of lowlifes. Wow how insulting. I am reconsider the whole Malaysia deal.

They want higher quality people but they allow 1000's of lowlife illegals in. Makes perfect sense.
Add to that he's calling the MM2H'ers a bunch of lowlifes. Wow how insulting. I am reconsider the whole Malaysia deal.

1openmind wrote:

They want higher quality people but they allow 1000's of lowlife illegals in. Makes perfect sense.
Add to that he's calling the MM2H'ers a bunch of lowlifes. Wow how insulting. I am reconsider the whole Malaysia deal.

Me too, and since my inlaws are there I can just do the occasional visit with the wife.  When the old man was re-elected a few years back, the country of Malaysia was looking promising and finally on its way. 

So, does that mean my MM2H agent owes me back my $1k deposit or do I still need to pay the balance? I thought before there was some decree that all agents have to refund the monies back to their applicants?  What a mess....

This is funny:
Najib: Malaysia should allow ...

Malaysia should allow and encourage foreign cryptocurrency holders to bring in their assets to be invested in physical assets in Malaysia.

Perhaps he could suggest to his friends in the Government that no sane person will do this when they could be kept/thrown out of the country at any time?

Yeah exactly thanks for your purchases of assets for our government. Now GET OUT!

Then I am owed $2000 from the government. They approved my application under the old scheme. But never allowed me to enter to completely it. Still the borders are closed.

1openmind wrote:

Then I am owed $2000 from the government. They approved my application under the old scheme. But never allowed me to enter to completely it. Still the borders are closed.

????  Was that what the government charged you???  I forget what the direct costs were but again I hired an agent and that was about a little more than 2k total.  I don't know what will happen if the process stops for me then.  I would hate to technically have to pay the rest for nothing...

Cobolin wrote:

This is funny:
Najib: Malaysia should allow ...

Malaysia should allow and encourage foreign cryptocurrency holders to bring in their assets to be invested in physical assets in Malaysia.

Perhaps he could suggest to his friends in the Government that no sane person will do this when they could be kept/thrown out of the country at any time?

Foreign Direct Investment is up YoY and MoM and there are several initiatives for large crypto investors to get setup and registered with the SC... Some of the world's biggest crypto companies have already started setting up shop here or are from here.

For example: Huobi, the world's 2nd biggest exchange, just got setup in Labuan last year and is currently building an office in West Malaysia.

Then you have home grown companies like coingecko.com the world's 2nd biggest crypto data aggregator, they're headquarted in PJ.

Investors aren't worried about getting thrown out because their companies issue employment passes.

The most straightforward way is setting up a Sdn Bhd with RM500,000 in the bank of paid up capital, setting up an office, hiring a few locals, then simply sponsoring your own employment pass. Or getting setup and approved as a licensed entity and sponsoring your own employment pass.

Then, if you don't want to do that there are numerous government agencies that have Professional Visit Passes for desirables: Malaysian Investment Development Authority (MIDA), Malaysia Digital Economy Corporation (MDEC). Hell, MDEC alone has a five year pass for experienced entrepreneurs to live here and it doesn't even require paid up capital.

Malaysia's actually incredibly hospitable to investors and entrepreneurs...

MM2H isn't an investment scheme.

If you REALLY want to be here, figure out how to be an investor and contribute to the country more than by saying that your personal spending is that important to Malaysia's economy; that's statement will be considered insulting to many Malaysians, especially the ones in office or the ones who have nothing to do with hospitality and luxury real estate development.

The majority of Malaysians have no interest in offering foreigners a friendly home (unless that foreigner is LITERALLY HIRING THEM) and they look at MM2H as a program that keeps new construction prices out of reach from the rakyat.

You really have to step outside of your expat bubble to see that... The Malaysian Chinese and the MM2H agents are FAR more hospitable to foreigners than the rest of the country... And the Sultan of Johor? He's literally the least popular sultan in the country (he's on the record talking about making Johor its own sovereign nation)... Nobody expected him to say differently.

You're going to have to find a way to contribute or get more money, because MM2H's requirements were created in 2002... and they're being upped to match the country's new goals.

Malaysia's come a long way from 2002, so has its golden visa.

Remember, nobody owes a foreigner anything... You can always find another country willing to pick up where Malaysia left off.

If you're also considering Thailand, this sounds interesting:

https://www.thaienquirer.com/32668/cabi … oreigners/

And Thailand desperately needs to diversify away from relying on tourism receipts, it's not a bad deal.

Well, that may be, but this is not what people have in mind for retirement (investing and working).  Isn't the MM2H program sort of an extension of some old "silver hair" retirement program?  There really should be two separate programs, one for true retirees and another for workers/active investors.

VWC wrote:

Well, that may be, but this is not what people have in mind for retirement (investing and working).  Isn't the MM2H program sort of an extension of some old "silver hair" retirement program?  There really should be two separate programs, one for true retirees and another for workers/active investors.

Yes, it's the new version of 1978's Silver-Haired Programme (SHP)... But, one key difference is that the SHP was only open to Japan and Western Europe... and even back then it asked for RM200,000 or a pension of RM5,000.

The MM2H program is really a retirement program, and they're probably just going to set the 1mil deposit requirement and leave it at that for the next generation.

The way I see it is there are two serious issues:

1. Real estate developers advertised MM2H so they can sell homes, this was especially common in Johor. This was unethical, and many people bought homes under MM2H when they might have just leased instead.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-as … ty-project

2. There should be a grandfathering mechanism to allow current MM2Hers to renew under the arrangement they came under.

Keep the new rules and let reality decide if the plan was a smart one, but give existing MM2Hers a chance to prove they're law-abiding and stay in the country as long as they're positively contributing.

But, the notion that Tun M wanted foreigners buying up properties is wrong.

Source: Straits Times

Malaysia says buying of property by foreigners does not give them automatic residency

Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad has said that foreigners will not be allowed to buy homes at the US$100 billion (S$136 billion) Forest City project near Singapore, or granted visas to live there.

His blunt statement puts a question mark over the fate of the mega project that was marketed primarily to Chinese buyers and is touted to be home to 700,000 people.

"One thing is certain, that city that is going to be built cannot be sold to foreigners," Tun Dr Mahathir said at a news conference yesterday in Kuala Lumpur. "We are not going to give visas for people to come and live here. Our objection is because it was built for foreigners, not built for Malaysians. Most Malaysians are unable to buy those flats."

Responding to queries from The Straits Times yesterday, Forest City master developer Country Garden Pacificview said it had launched about 20,000 residential units for sale by the end of last year, of which about 18,000 were sold. It declined to say how many were sold to Singaporeans.

Some 70 per cent of units have been bought by Chinese buyers and 20 per cent by Malaysians, according to a Reuters report.

Forest City - a 60-40 joint venture between Country Garden and a company that the Johor royal family controls - is slated to be built on four artificial islands, just north of Tuas, within 30 years.

Dr Mahathir has long criticised the reclamation project that is three times the size of Sentosa, claiming that it was an erosion of Malaysian sovereignty. He even suggested in a speech last December that he hoped Forest City would become an actual forest with baboons and monkeys as residents, said local media reports.

18k
Number of Forest City residential units sold by the end of last year, among the 20,000 launched for sale, according to master developer Country Garden Pacificview.

70%
Percentage bought by Chinese buyers, according to Reuters.

20%
Percentage of units bought by Malaysians.

Country Garden issued a statement of clarification yesterday, saying that Forest City "has complied with all laws and regulations with the necessary approvals to sell to foreign purchasers".

It said it is "currently in touch with the Prime Minister's Office for clarifications, as we believe Tun Mahathir's comments may have been taken out of context in certain media reports". It also said his comments "do not correspond with the content of the meeting between him and founder and chairman of Country Garden Holdings Yeung Kwok Keung".

The developer added that they had a 40-minute closed-door meeting on Aug 16, prior to Dr Mahathir's visit to Beijing. It said: "During the meeting, Tun Mahathir reiterated that he welcomes foreign investments which could create employment opportunities, promote technology transfer and innovations that could benefit Malaysia's economic growth and job creation."

The aggressive building drive in Johor and Iskandar has been a cause of concern. Speaking in Parliament in 2015, Mr Lawrence Wong, then Minister for Culture, Community and Youth, had said Singaporean buyers were becoming wary of the Johor housing market. "There is indeed a real concern about future oversupply in the property market there, and hence the potential decline in value of homes," he had said.

A prospective Singaporean buyer who wanted to be known only as Mr Tay told The Straits Times that he visited the Forest City showroom here yesterday as he was shocked by the news. "The staff said they don't know if (Dr Mahathir's comments) are true, and told me to check back again in two days," said Mr Tay, an urban planner in his 40s.

This is not the first project Dr Mahathir has targeted. Others now in limbo after his visit to Beijing last week include the US$20 billion East Coast Rail Link and a Trans-Sabah gas pipeline project backed by Chinese state companies.

Plans to build a high-speed rail linking Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, which was expected to be a big boost to Forest City, are also being reviewed by Dr Mahathir's administration.

To me, Malaysia is like the person who is embarking on an exercise routine who insists early on that, oh I don't want to be too muscle bound...   Come on, let's worry about that when that actually happens ok??? 

Malaysia wants and needs investment yet cries about the fact that yes it is coming from foreigners.  No sheet, Sherlock....

VWC wrote:

To me, Malaysia is like the person who is embarking on an exercise routine who insists early on that, oh I don't want to be too muscle bound...   Come on, let's worry about that when that actually happens ok??? 

Malaysia wants and needs investment yet cries about the fact that yes it is coming from foreigners.  No sheet, Sherlock....

Did you read what Mahathir said?

They want tech and jobs, they don't want overpriced real estate.

And those development projects being sold to foreigners aren't owned by Malaysians, they're typically Chinese partnerships.

Malaysiakini: Pendatangs and foreigners are not welcome

Despite being born Malaysian, we know that the ultra-nationalists view non-Malays as 'pendatangs', but as of late, it is bewildering to note that foreigners, too, are also not welcome in Malaysia.

Just over two weeks ago, Home Minister Hamzah Zainudin announced that for a number of reasons, necessary changes were being made to the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme.

Is Hamzah aware of the many contributions of the MM2H holders? The participants don't just live in million-ringgit homes or luxury apartments in Malaysia, they have vast sums of money parked in a local bank.

Most of the article may be paywalled, but for those posters saying that ordinary Malaysians don't care at all about MM2H, kindly read the comments below the article.

Deleted double post

Of course everyday Malaysians want MM2H they need people to sell there stuff too. They need renters and buyers. Which is all going to go away. They want high tech people who get foreign income and send it back home to India. Really that's going to help how?

1openmind wrote:

Of course everyday Malaysians want MM2H they need people to sell there stuff too. They need renters and buyers. Which is all going to go away. They want high tech people who get foreign income and send it back home to India. Really that's going to help how?

The government wants the foreign corporations to set up shop (which does FAR more for a local economy than someone buying and sitting in a condo for 10 years), the tax revenue from the company's directors, and those companies to hire and train lots of locals (leading to even more tax revenue).

Question... How much tax does someone with MM2H pay over the course of a year? Because one EP1 holder is paying no less than RM1,700-2,400 a month in taxes...

The remittances are irrelevant if the government is getting its fair share.

Cobolin wrote:

Malaysiakini: Pendatangs and foreigners are not welcome

Despite being born Malaysian, we know that the ultra-nationalists view non-Malays as 'pendatangs', but as of late, it is bewildering to note that foreigners, too, are also not welcome in Malaysia.

Just over two weeks ago, Home Minister Hamzah Zainudin announced that for a number of reasons, necessary changes were being made to the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme.

Is Hamzah aware of the many contributions of the MM2H holders? The participants don't just live in million-ringgit homes or luxury apartments in Malaysia, they have vast sums of money parked in a local bank.

Most of the article may be paywalled, but for those posters saying that ordinary Malaysians don't care at all about MM2H, kindly read the comments below the article.

If you want to see what the AVERAGE Malaysia thinks just find a news post about MM2H and read the Malay comments.

The majority of Malaysians aren't using English as their first language online.

1openmind wrote:

Of course everyday Malaysians want MM2H they need people to sell there stuff too. They need renters and buyers. Which is all going to go away. They want high tech people who get foreign income and send it back home to India. Really that's going to help how?

It's no coincidence that the three days old BM article about MM2H doesn't even have a comment.

The AVERAGE Malaysian doesn't care about MM2H.

https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/591279

FireRooster1 wrote:

If you want to see what the AVERAGE Malaysia thinks just find a news post about MM2H and read the Malay comments.

The majority of Malaysians aren't using English as their first language online.

It's your allegation that Malaysians don't care for MM2H, so you provide the links and quotes.

Cobolin wrote:

FireRooster1 wrote:

If you want to see what the AVERAGE Malaysia thinks just find a news post about MM2H and read the Malay comments.

The majority of Malaysians aren't using English as their first language online.

It's your allegation that Malaysians don't care for MM2H, so you provide the links and quotes.

You want me to prove a negative?

Firstly, "Malaysians don't care about" != "Malaysians don't care for". It's a moot point for MOST of the population...

Secondly, how many members of Parliament have you seen speak out about MM2H? Have you seen ANYBODY that isn't in Penang, Mont Kiara, or JB even talk about this?

Do you even read Malay comments?

The onus for this is on you...

Honestly, at this point anybody worrying about MM2H can either make more money, move on, or find another way in...

Selamat datang ke norma baharu.

FireRooster1 wrote:

Cobolin wrote:

FireRooster1 wrote:

If you want to see what the AVERAGE Malaysia thinks just find a news post about MM2H and read the Malay comments.

The majority of Malaysians aren't using English as their first language online.

It's your allegation that Malaysians don't care for MM2H, so you provide the links and quotes.

You want me to prove a negative?

You said: "If you want to see what the AVERAGE Malaysia thinks just find a news post about MM2H and read the Malay comments." Then in your very next post, you point out that there are no comments on the BM Malaysiakini article.

I want to read comments from average Malaysians. You said they exist, so prove it. Otherwise you're just making stuff up to try to defend your allegation.

[BTW, I totally accept your point that foreign entrepreneurs employing locals are far more valuable to Malaysia than MM2Hers. But I find it hard to accept that several thousand mostly retirees bringing in RM100k+ per year each and spending it in the local economy has next to no value for Malaysia.]

FireRooster1 wrote:

It's no coincidence that the three days old BM article about MM2H doesn't even have a comment.

The AVERAGE Malaysian doesn't care about MM2H.

https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/591279

Actually now I see there are thirteen comments at the bottom of the article. I couldn't see them on my PC, but I can on my phone - probably something to do with popup blockers.

For your convenience I've Google translated them and pasted them here.

I count about four or five unequivocally in favour of the new MM2H policy, mostly citing fear of the fictional criminal trangressions alleged by Hamzah. A few are ambiguous. About six are hoping that the new policy doesn't harm the economy. It's a small sample, so we can't really draw conclusions, but at least some BM-speaking Malaysians are concerned.