Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H)

I am not sure at this point what were going to do?
Yeah I was reading some of the stuff Thailand is doing. They want quality and not quantity yet they complain tourism
Is down. So they are going to add another 500 baht tax to tourists. Good way to attract more people keep adding more taxes. I also hear maybe 25% will go towards the projects. The rest is all for the corruption.

What's really going on.

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/categ … CjcnBszQg9

Wow....he is like a bumper sticker shop full of xenophobic rants. None are connected into a coherent or rational argument.

For example he finds it very odd that there is a certain amount of attrition in the program over the last two decades. Has he ever heard of death, illness, and people just returning home to take care of domestic interests? What is his point? That people leave?

"Settler colonialism" was the rant of the most radical elements in Zimbabwe...but how odd that the MM2H program recipients can't vote, be in political office, or even work. They just funnel money into the economy...not OUT like certain others that set up extractive industries or work?

And he positive goes apoplectic with rage over those very millionaires that he argues are behind this policy. So are they next on his ban list? What about the foreign workers and employees and managers that train Malaysians?

He "implies" that the Home Ministry has a. long list of crimes undertaken by MM2H recipients...but oddly the Home Ministry hasn't deported them (except for one domestic violence self defence case). He won't even say what these cases are.  How many members of Immigration, Customs, and the other agencies of the Home Ministry have violated Malaysian law?

Check philippines.. they too have a retirement prog
I think their visa is lifetime

https://pra.gov.ph/why-retire-in-philippines/

Sabah is also considering a program very much like Sarawak's. Rather than getting the Eastern Malaysian States to go along they have actually instigated more liberal programs as Sarawak and Sabah see a pathway to improving their post-COVID tourism economies.

Psst, anybody else planning to hit Malaysia once the border opens (hopefully 1/1) and before the new rules get implemented?  My agent is advising me to get ready....

This is exactly what you get for being so greedy Malaysia!!!!!!!

https://www.propertyguru.com.my/propert … -condition

Hi there, I was wondering if any of you have any information on the new regulation on taxation of foreign remitted income into Malaysia as of Jan 1, 2022. https://www.crowe.com/my/insights/taxab … ced-income

Under MM2H much of this income is pensions. Do u know if it'll be taxed?

Thanks!!

jderozario wrote:

Hi there, I was wondering if any of you have any information on the new regulation on taxation of foreign remitted income into Malaysia as of Jan 1, 2022. https://www.crowe.com/my/insights/taxab … ced-income

Under MM2H much of this income is pensions. Do u know if it'll be taxed?

Thanks!!

is this article from another Expat site helpful?

https://www.expatgo.com/my/2021/12/31/m … ny-expats/

FYI: Rules and procedures for MM2H holders returning to Malaysia

GUIDELINES ENTRY APPLICATIONS VIA MYTRAVEL PASS (MTP) FOR MALAYSIA MY SECOND HOME (MM2H)

You do not need permission to exit Malaysia if you're already here.

Cobolin wrote:

FYI: Rules and procedures for MM2H holders returning to Malaysia

GUIDELINES ENTRY APPLICATIONS VIA MYTRAVEL PASS (MTP) FOR MALAYSIA MY SECOND HOME (MM2H)

You do not need permission to exit Malaysia if you're already here.

Yup, I am on my way next month. Staying a month in Penang while my agent hopefully is able to complete my pre-covid application approval.  Thank god that my employer gave me a month sabbatical to use or not sure how I was going to swing this long trip.  Airfare was not cheap via Singapore Airlines.  I am approved already to travel in, got my Airbnb highrise condo booked, got my rip off PCR pre flight test set up for 2 days prior and i think that is about it.  One small issue that came up today is planning for the bank account set up.  Looks like more banks there are balking.   My handler from the agent's office has been great.  Will need to give her a nice gift if we are able to pull this off....

Damn, higher than I would have thought.....

https://www.msn.com/en-my/news/other/an … uxbndlbing

I suspect that he's merging the numbers of applications and acceptances from the Sarawak- Malaysia My Second Home - that they are not from his program. SMM2H has been open throughout the pandemic.

MM2H doesn't have a website that even gives the new requirements...and there is no "On-Line Application" process . So how could people apply...unless they are finally processing people who applied years ago and giving them waivers on the requirements. Folks who wanted to get in before the new rule took effect.

But in either case these would not people applying for HIS new MM2H Elite "We want Quality People"  Program. If they are not putting a million smackers into the bank and showing a $10,000/month pension it's not the Hamza Program.

cinnamonape wrote:

I suspect that he's merging the numbers of applications and acceptances from the Sarawak- Malaysia My Second Home - that they are not from his program. SMM2H has been open throughout the pandemic.

MM2H doesn't have a website that even gives the new requirements...and there is no "On-Line Application" process . So how could people apply...unless they are finally processing people who applied years ago and giving them waivers on the requirements. Folks who wanted to get in before the new rule took effect.

But in either case these would not people applying for HIS new MM2H Elite "We want Quality People"  Program. If they are not putting a million smackers into the bank and showing a $10,000/month pension it's not the Hamza Program.

Yup, my agent has processed some of these "tweeners" lately.  I will be in Penang to do the same in about 2 weeks.  If you are there or close by, I would love to meet up with you finally (after quarantining of course).  I am in Penang for a month. PM me with WhatsApp number if you are on there.  There is a good chance I may venture back down South to see some properties with my wife's KL friend...

I'm in Sarawak, not Penang. I'm on the S- MM2H program.

Ok, well, I am sure I will visit the other side once I am actually retired and staying in Malaysia for a good chunk of the year.

There seems to be a big push and preparation for Sarawak MM2H by the government at the moment.

The Sarawak Tourism Board has set up a link on their website.

https://smm2h.sarawaktourism.com

And they just got a major write up here

https://www.expatgo.com/my/2022/01/24/s … dium=email

No doubt.  In speaking with my agent, they are planning to open up a satellite office there to handle inquiries for that program.

Where's "there". I know that Sarawak already has a Trade and Tourism office in Singapore, and they are intending on putting one up in Nusantera, Indonesia's new capital in South Kalimantan. There's a group operating out of Hong Kong called "MM2H Club" (it's on Facebook) that was really pushing MM2H for that city's citizens but also Taiwanese. They were epecially concerned when Hamza put in the new rules and shifted to promoting Thailand, but also Sabah and Sarawak. Your wife might enjoy looking at the materials.

Thailands new elite visa seems modeled for investors- all ages, 5 year visa, you can work in the country, and buy property...but it's almost as expensive as  the new MM2H. The other program open to retirees is a one year renewable visa. It would suit me because I don't intend to buy property and probably wouldn't mind the shorter term - but I'm happy with Sarawak, though Sabah is attractive, too.

There meaning a satellite agent office on the Eastern Malaysia side.

My wife's family is in JB and Pontian with brother-inlaw in Singapore so I am probably looking now to find something in Western Malaysia (JB or Pontian).  Pontian to me is intriguing as it is a small coastal town where the seafood is popular.  With the bridge almost completed from JB, I can see Pontian blowing up.  If I have time to come all the way back down from Penang I just might visit Pontian.

Odd that Sarawak Tourism would have to promote S-MM2H in the Peninsula. The Federal MoT is supposed to do that for Sarawak and Sabah equally at home and abroad along with Peninsular tourism and MM2H. Admittedly they never did that...nary a mention when I would visit "Tourism Malaysia" that there was a separate program in Sarawak and Sbah with different rules.

In your case it makes sense, provided it is allowed, to reside in Iskandar (Johor region).

I've been through Pontian...as it had a ferry between Karimun Island in Riau, Indonesia and Malaysia. That was about two decades ago and it was mainly a sleepy little fishing port  with a skeletal immigration office mainly concerned about Indonesian workers coming through. They had to hunt around for their 90 Day tourist stamp (in a desk) and set the date. That was how rarely they saw a western tourist. But Johor has boomed to the West (even if Forest City has become a ghost town) it seems.  Someday maybe there will be a Second Bridge from Singapore...or car ferry service.

cinnamonape wrote:

Odd that Sarawak Tourism would have to promote S-MM2H in the Peninsula. The Federal MoT is supposed to do that for Sarawak and Sabah equally at home and abroad along with Peninsular tourism and MM2H. Admittedly they never did that...nary a mention when I would visit "Tourism Malaysia" that there was a separate program in Sarawak and Sbah with different rules.

In your case it makes sense, provided it is allowed, to reside in Iskandar (Johor region).

I've been through Pontian...as it had a ferry between Karimun Island in Riau, Indonesia and Malaysia. That was about two decades ago and it was mainly a sleepy little fishing port  with a skeletal immigration office mainly concerned about Indonesian workers coming through. They had to hunt around for their 90 Day tourist stamp (in a desk) and set the date. That was how rarely they saw a western tourist. But Johor has boomed to the West (even if Forest City has become a ghost town) it seems.  Someday maybe there will be a Second Bridge from Singapore...or car ferry service.

Ok, sounds like Pontian is it for me.  If I can hit it this trip, I will but more than likely end of the year when I return with my wife who wants to visit the family.

Are there any people here that have gone through the process of buying a property in Sarawak to get S-MM2H visa? I'm interested, but I also know that it often takes months to find out all the specificities of the local real estate market and real estate law.

I'd like to hear from people who went through this process! Thanks

Jk1976 wrote:

Are there any people here that have gone through the process of buying a property in Sarawak to get S-MM2H visa? I'm interested, but I also know that it often takes months to find out all the specificities of the local real estate market and real estate law.

I'd like to hear from people who went through this process! Thanks

Buying a house will not get you an SMM2H (or Peninsular MM2H) 'visa', or any other right to live in Malaysia. It's neither necessary nor sufficient. If anyone has told you that it is, they are woefully misinformed or lying.

If you really want to buy a house, you can do so without MM2H, as long as it is above the minimum price, which varies by state.

It is really confusing, because there is no official source of information. On the MM2H website it states which conditions you must meet, but these are the old conditions and there's nothing about Sarawak.

So you end up making decisions based on what agents recommend. I don't mind putting in a deposit, but as a fulltime investor I don't have stable fixed income, so that's the issue here.

Jk1976 wrote:

It is really confusing, because there is no official source of information. On the MM2H website it states which conditions you must meet, but these are the old conditions and there's nothing about Sarawak.

So you end up making decisions based on what agents recommend. I don't mind putting in a deposit, but as a fulltime investor I don't have stable fixed income, so that's the issue here.

Hi there!  I am flying to Penang on Saturday to meet up with my agent to finish up.  My agent is opening an outpost on that side to try to get some of that MM2H business.  if you like, I can have my handler at the agency call you.  PM me for my WhatsApp number.

Jk1976 wrote:

It is really confusing, because there is no official source of information. On the MM2H website it states which conditions you must meet, but these are the old conditions and there's nothing about Sarawak.

So you end up making decisions based on what agents recommend. I don't mind putting in a deposit, but as a fulltime investor I don't have stable fixed income, so that's the issue here.

Did you see this topic? https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=761316

Hello

How I find new requierement to granted mm2h visa.
what is the maximum age of children which included with parents mm2h visa?

Ok, almost a week in lovely Penang.  So far....

1) completed the home quarantining as of Friday (what a mess, but I get it)
2) met with agent who issued me my updated MM2h approval letter
3) started the banking part of it, tomorrow I transfer the money.
4) after transferring the money, need to get my health checkup.  Agent already got my health insurance coverage I believe so that should be all that is needed for agent to get my passport stamped for MM2H approval under the old rules. 10 years baby!!!!

Somethings to get used to over here:

1) Tipping is almost foreign it seems here.  I ate at a lovely street stand/restaurant in Georgetown last night and I wanted to tip the young man and lady 1 lousy Ringgit each for each dish I had ordered.  They practically said no until I insisted.
2) Is it because of the hawker or smaller restaurants but the non existence of napkins anywhere.  I had to buy some just for my condo.

Buying a property in Sarawak is only required for those who are 40-50 and do NOT have children enrolled in a Sarawak school.

For parents of children enrolled in a Sarawak school they can be as young as 30. And they can rent.

Of course, assuming you are 40-50 with no kids (or kids schooling abroad), even if one purchases a property one still MUST STILL meet the other criteria for the S-MM2H.Good Conduct Report, Health Check, application, local sponsor or agent, health insurance coverage and EITHER

1) RM10,000/mo (couples) or RM 7000/mo foreign income/pension

OR

2) Placing a Fixed Deposit of RM300,000 (couples) or RM150,000 in a Sarawak branch bank.

Here's the Guidebook, List of Approved Agents and links to the application forms for the SMM2H.

https://mtcp.sarawak.gov.my/page-0-179- … Forms.html

It's admittedly quite frustrating that the MALAYSIAN Immigration Department has yet to post their regulations for the MM2H (Peninsula) program though. They announced they were taking over from the Ministry of Tourism, Malaysia back in August and advanced a bunch of revisions, but have never formally and officially published them. No website. Nada.

It's almost SEVEN MONTHS on....they can't get a website up? Announce the new regulations?  Yet the Home Minister asserts that people are applying? Some have been accepted, he claims. How? Without knowing the rules and without applications?

Remember the SMM2H program is separate from the MM2H...by and large just treat them as independent- ignore the similar names...as different as getting a visa to Vietnam and Thailand.

And for those going through the Sarawak MM2H Thread from the beginning...remember that revisions to the rules in September 2020 occurred. These were far less onerous than the new MM2H program...but the Original INTRODUCTION Posting (by me) is a little out of date.

Some of the changes that occurred a year and half ago:

1) Agents are now allowed if they are Sarawakian-based.
2) Sponsors (or agents) still required...but sponsors can only host one applicant/family at a time.
3) Health Insurance Coverage is now required, but waivers for those over 60 can be obtained.

4) While the Proof of Income/Pension Option has remained unchanged (RM10K couple/RM7K single) the Fixed Deposit Option cost has increased to RM150,000 (single) and RM300,000 (couple).
These financial requirements remain OPTIONS...one must fulfill the application with EITHER ONE OR THE OTHER, not BOTH.

The program is mainly for applicants over 50 years of age, however the Option for parents under 50 with children enrolled in a Sarawak school remains.

5) A new option for those 40-50 without children attending Sarawak schools has been introduced...requiring the purchase of a residential property of RM600,000 (Kuching...RM500K elsewhere).

6) Recipients must reside/visit in Sarawak  minimum of 15 days a year.

https://mtcp.sarawak.gov.my/page-0-179- … Forms.html

Ok, I am now an official MM2Her!!!!  Passport has been stamped or stickered I am told, which I will get back from my agent tomorrow.  No worries (hopfully) for the next 7-8 years (remainder of my passport years)!!!!  Thank you, Alter Domus of Penang for completing my pre-Covid approved MM2H application at the old rules!!!!!!!

Not a response to anyone, not a rant, just my experience (and opinion) in a nutshell.

My career has resulted in several moves and I am willing to make one more before I retire.  That was to be Malaysia, the primary reason being the ability to own landed property.
So in 2019 I applied and late 2020 was informed that my application was approved and was given an immigration email address for further communication.  That turned out to be the closest thing to a black hole.

Now, I am Hamzah's 'better quality applicant'; I do have that 40KMYR income and I can make that 1MMYR deposit and not feel it.
But I won't.  I won't because I did not get to where I am today by being an idiot.  I won't because I can get a better deal elsewhere.

Should a future government restore or relax the MM2H requirements, would I then be interested again?
That's an unequivocal No.  What I want is to retire, grow old and to eventually keel over and die - all with an absolute minimum of fuzz and worries.
That requires trust.  Trust that is no longer there and can not be earned back before I'm settled.  Settled elsewhere...

CountMeowed wrote:

Not a response to anyone, not a rant, just my experience (and opinion) in a nutshell.

My career has resulted in several moves and I am willing to make one more before I retire.  That was to be Malaysia, the primary reason being the ability to own landed property.
So in 2019 I applied and late 2020 was informed that my application was approved and was given an immigration email address for further communication.  That turned out to be the closest thing to a black hole.

Now, I am Hamzah's 'better quality applicant'; I do have that 40KMYR income and I can make that 1MMYR deposit and not feel it.
But I won't.  I won't because I did not get to where I am today by being an idiot.  I won't because I can get a better deal elsewhere.

Should a future government restore or relax the MM2H requirements, would I then be interested again?
That's an unequivocal No.  What I want is to retire, grow old and to eventually keel over and die - all with an absolute minimum of fuzz and worries.
That requires trust.  Trust that is no longer there and can not be earned back before I'm settled.  Settled elsewhere...

Hi Friend. Here's my $0.02....

First of all, if you are telling me that you are already approved under the old rules then all you may need to do is essentially get your application reinstated since approval expired.  This is where the use of a capable agent is worth 10x the cost.  My agent has helped quite a few folks like us (approved pre-covid and then locked out; I hired them to do it all from start though).  I just got my passport back today with the MM2H sticker, which is good for the remainder of my passport or about 7-8 years.  I deposited the old !50K requirement and I am good to go.  My agent is great, one of the best in the business.  Still in business (despite Covid) since too many clients doing something.  If you want contact, drop me an email.  I volunteered to be an unofficial representative of this company, based out of my US residence area (San Francisco - Bay Area).

Life is too short to be bitter/angry over a change in policy.  So what, those new rules wouldn't apply to you anyway.  If you had your heart set on Malaysia, it sounds like you can still make it happen.

Vance

VWC wrote:

First of all, if you are telling me that you are already approved under the old rules then all you may need to do is essentially get your application reinstated since approval expired.

I am aware of this but it is of no consequence.  The problem is that when Hamzah agreed to grandfathering-in existing participants and applicants he did so kicking and screaming. 
This came as a result of opposition by MM2H stakeholders such as the agents.  As the program dies those voices will disappear and should - at some point in the future - PN still be in power the chance of them wanting to finish the job is very real.
OK, I can satisfy the new requirements, but I don't want to.  It's the value proposition (or the lack of it).  Not aimed at you or anyone(!) but just as an insight into the thought process of 'my group' and perhaps phrased to make it memorable: "Quality applicants have quality options".
Not bitter, not angry.  The only reason I'm not in Malaysia is COVID and in a way I'm quite relieved it helped me dodge a bullet.
That said, I do wish you all the best.

So...uh...where you going to now? I want is to retire, grow old and to eventually keel over and die - all with an absolute minimum of fuss and worries. I turn 54 next month. What are your top spots?

CountMeowed wrote:

VWC wrote:

First of all, if you are telling me that you are already approved under the old rules then all you may need to do is essentially get your application reinstated since approval expired.

I am aware of this but it is of no consequence.  The problem is that when Hamzah agreed to grandfathering-in existing participants and applicants he did so kicking and screaming. 
This came as a result of opposition by MM2H stakeholders such as the agents.  As the program dies those voices will disappear and should - at some point in the future - PN still be in power the chance of them wanting to finish the job is very real.
OK, I can satisfy the new requirements, but I don't want to.  It's the value proposition (or the lack of it).  Not aimed at you or anyone(!) but just as an insight into the thought process of 'my group' and perhaps phrased to make it memorable: "Quality applicants have quality options".
Not bitter, not angry.  The only reason I'm not in Malaysia is COVID and in a way I'm quite relieved it helped me dodge a bullet.
That said, I do wish you all the best.

But, Sir, you have already been approved!!!!  Why not finish up the process, and ENJOY THE OLD RULES?  Yes, you would have to physically come here because they won't issue the reinstated approval letter without your passport entry stamp.  Yes, that would mean quarantining here first, then you need to do the 150K deposit, buy a cheap health insurance plan at minimum and do the health screening.  My agent took care of it all so it wasn't too bad doing it all the first 2 weeks I was here.  According to the agency founder, who is pretty smart and savvy, he said don't worry about Hamzah.  There are reasons why his new program has not been implemented yet. I won't say anymore.  As he explained to me and I agree with him, most people do things too late.  Finish up the process.  You always want an option.  Don't look back and say I should have listened to VWC....

VitoNegroni wrote:

So...uh...where you going to now? I want is to retire, grow old and to eventually keel over and die - all with an absolute minimum of fuss and worries. I turn 54 next month. What are your top spots?

For now I will remain in Thailand. Not my first choice but no paper hassle as my wife is a visa agent and takes care of everything. 
Final move will most likely be to Portugal or Germany (I like Bayern!) as neither of those have wealth taxes.

What's best for you, you will have to decide for yourself.  Personally I dislike middle and south America but maybe it's to your taste.  Panama is popular and still affordable.

Thailand may be offering a long term program a la mm2h in the near future.

After spending a month here in Penang, me like!!!!!  All I need to do is convince the Mrs. to go here instead of more south, like JB where her folks are.  Everyone and their mother here says Penang > JB.

Thanks Penang for hosting me for a month!!!!  Great food and even greater people (everyone has been friendly). 

We'll be back, at least to get the Mrs onto the program....