Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H)

@hilight8 Yes, Malaysia is a country where they mix everything with new and old.

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Hello all,


I am a MM2H visa holder since 2014 (my current stamp expires in 2025).  I live in the USA.

The new rules that apply to the old visa holders require a 90-day stay in Malaysia every year.  Does that mean that my MM2H will be revoked is I do not spend 90 days in Malaysia in 2022?



Thank you
- @hilight8

Did you go through an agent for the initial MM2H visa?  If so, they would know.  I will try to ask my Penang agent for you maybe late tonight here when they are in the office over there.  The thing is, I don't know for a fact that everything is being enforced to a T just yet (or will ever).  Don't quote me on this, of course.  I mean, you will reapply, pay the new increased fees and then go your way.  I mean, as far as we know, has the government come out with the process as to how they will be monitoring that 90 days requirement ?  I mean, technically, you do have the "whole" year to complete that requirement right?  So, don't you technically have essentially 8 months at least before really doing it if you want to be in good standing?
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We've been a MM2H since 2010 and were fortunate to have got our program renewed in 2020 till 2028 my passport expiry date. The renewal was a mess as unlike before they renewed my family program I.e. wife and kids till there passport expiry so one got 2 years the other 3 and my wife 5 but am told renewal will be easy as mine is the main applicant. However the renewal fees will apply which is RM 500 for each year. So my daughter child passport was renewed for 5 years last week and so her visa will be extended for 4.5 years mine being 2028 and the cost would be around RM 2250.00 plus fees.

I met my agent yesterday for coffee and to hand over my child passport for extension  and he mentioned the 90 day rule and the new financial requirements apply for all new and renewing applicants. The new program is for 5 years, need to lien RM 1.0 mill in the bank and show a RM 40K income from overseas. If one cannot fulfill the 90 days it can get revoked at the next renewal. So if one fulfills the program requirements, funds and income it would get renewed but than in the next 5 years they will review the applicant. He also indicated being Malaysia rules keep changing and when the next Govt come in the entire program may change. Majority of his clients on expiry moved to Thailand where the rules are more relaxed for such programs.


Hope this helps.
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This is a very good question. Do the requirements laid out in the original MM2H letter still hold (i.e. no 90 day requirement) until the visa is renewed? That is "No residency requirement until renewal,,,90 Days after renewal"? I'd suspect the latter, otherwise they could start demanding "back fees" from those that have visas that expire in 2025. LOGICALLY, although the new rule took effect in October 2021 - and the conditions really weren't imposed until April of this year, I suspect they only commence when the Visa is renewed and a new letter should be given with the new conditions.



But who knows - the logic of imposing these regulations in the first place was absent. We will likely soon learn if renewal applicants are told..."you haven't spent 90 days in Malaysia this year".



BTW you might also show the passport pages of spouse and kids as there is suposed to be some system where all those on a single MM2H can combine their "days spent in Malaysia". A bit dicriminatory for we single recipients, but its a potential loophole.
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So there's no grandfathering-in of applicants approved under the old rules with Peninsular MM2H, compared with Sarawak MM2H where it has been indicated that renewals will be under the original rules which applied at first approval.
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Ok, just spoke to my agent in Penang.  She said they are not enforcing it at the moment for renewing or existing MM2H holders.  She even said they made a mistake (thinking the client was a new applicant) and put that requirement on a renewing client's letter and they corrected it after it was pointed out.  Obviously things are fluid and it may depend on who is in government at that time when you renew.  With the country opened up, she said she is seeing some interest in the peninsular program still.  Yes, a lot of interest and applicants for the Sarawak program.

Maybe we meet in Malaysia one day and have a beer (on you, lol)!  I am in San Francisco by the way.  I plan to go back there in December with the wife so that we can visit her folks and probably to add her onto my visa.
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@Cobolin
Some bad news regarding the renewals of Sarawak MM2H. Apparently they are also charging renewal and visa transfer applicants the RM500/year the same as in the Peninsula.  The renewals were not in the for 90 Days over the last year so I assume they are not applying THAT RULE.

I would hope that the Sarawak Government resists this imposition of Federal visa fees. If the Federal government can impose onerous fees they can essentially control the program and limit its success.
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@cinnamonape
Yes, that is bad news. I hope it's not the thin end of the wedge. The most important factor to me, though, is being grandfathered in under the rules that I signed up for.
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hello do you have a contact of a good agent please for KL area ?
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They are in Penang but I highly recommend my agent Alter Domus.  I am sure they can service you from Penang since they make their weekly runs to the government office every mid-week.

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Thanks Guys. Question regarding Tax i am getting my salary in SG and will move to KL soon with the family given i can work remotely 80% of my time. Do I have to pay any tax in TAX in Malaysia ?
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Good day, I am a MM2H holder for KL and I am quitting the program, can someone detail the procedures on how to do it without any agent ?

Any idea on how long it takes, and once we get the official resignation paperwork for the Bank, how much time they take to wire the lien monies to our destination account of choice ?

Thanks for your help
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The Immigration website

has some info on what's needed for MM2H processes if you're processing it from both inside and outside Malaysia.

Bank refund of your FD. Maybe speak with the staff at the Immigration MM2H desk in Putrajaya. There's likely a document they will give you that will need to be show to the Bank Account Manager.

It will be easier to transfer into another account within the bank, with next easiest to a foreign subsidiary/branch of the same bank. Then to another Malaysian bank...and lastly to an overseas account.

Exchange rates are abysmal right now.
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@Neo83
I guess it depends on where/how you work that 20% of the time. Do you still have a Singapore Work Permit and pay Singapore taxes on your income?

Technically one is not supposed to work on the MM2H visa, but working abroad is okay. If your employer is abroad, and you pay foreign taxes then it appears fine. But if you are claiming Malaysian Tax Residency to abrogate your Singapore taxes then you will, of course, be subject to Malaysian tax law. The fact is, one has to be taxed SOMEWHERE. Generally that is where the employer is situated and where you submit your work...with the exception of the claim of tax residency (which is applied for and not necessarily granted even if one qualifies by time (182 days/year) of residency).
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Thank you very much Cinnamon....looks like a nightmare, why is it that the bank cannot return funds in a straightforward way to the same account from where the original funds were wired to open the FD ? I don't want to have any relationship whatsoever with this Bank once I close the account, it has been a nightmarish experience so far, I will lose enough money already with the MYR vis a vis the strong USD while buying back my USD....




The Immigration website
has some info on what's needed for MM2H processes if you're processing it from both inside and outside Malaysia.

Bank refund of your FD. Maybe speak with the staff at the Immigration MM2H desk in Putrajaya. There's likely a document they will give you that will need to be show to the Bank Account Manager.

It will be easier to transfer into another account within the bank, with next easiest to a foreign subsidiary/branch of the same bank. Then to another Malaysian bank...and lastly to an overseas account.

Exchange rates are abysmal right now.
- @cinnamonape
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@topazar

Sorry about the link glitch:

I copied out the procedures for cancelling the MM2H Pass, both at Putrajaya and through an Overseas Malaysian embassy

CLIENT CHARTER: 3 (THREE) WORKING DAYS

(i) IN MALAYSIA

Applicant or representative MM2H company must be present;
Intention letter for individual/agency representative letter for MM2H company;
Authorize letter to withdraw fixed deposit from Immigration Department of Malaysia;
Original passport;
Original & copy of flight ticket; and
Copy of Conditional Approval Letter.

(ii) TERMINATION PAS MM2H PARTICIPANTS IN ABROAD

Applicant must be present at nearest Malaysia Embassy/High Commision;
Intention letter for terminated pas MM2H;
Termination letter from MM2H Centre, Immigration Department;
Original passport (present at Malaysia Embassy/High Commision);
Copy of conditional approval letter; and
Latest exit endorsement/stamping cop from Malaysia
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Here's a link to the High Commissioner of GB&NI regarding cancelling MM2H.


All it says about procedures to withdraw the FD are...
"3.         Please be informed that for withdrawal of savings from the Fixed Deposit Accounts, pass holders must communicate directly with banks on the process and procedures."
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Thanks so much Cinnamon , the last paragraph you quoted is definitely an issue, as the Bank I chose at the time of enrollment is really a pain with its red tape for every single procedure

I am flying to Malaysia to cancel the MM2H and am not sure how long it will take

By the way, I am the main applicant , and my wife was an additional to my application, does she need to be there ? I am being told that NOT , but just want to make sure as I am planning to travel alone. Thanks for your comments

"3.         Please be informed that for withdrawal of savings from the Fixed Deposit Accounts, pass holders must communicate directly with banks on the process and procedures."
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My suggestion is get a affidavit signed by your wife affirming that she approves of he removal  and notarized by a lawyer. Better be safe that sorry.

My impression is once Immigration approves it should not be an issue. Also, oddly, you MAY also require a statement from your agent/sponsor affirming your desire and their permission to withdraw form the MM2H program. The letter needs to be addressed to the Ministry of Immigration and apparently state the reason why you are leaving the program.

As if it's any of their business.

Jerry
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  @cinnamonape

Hi cinnamonape,

I'm also reviewing about my MM2H situation and want to ask if you have any thought on that.
I successfully applied for MM2H a few years ago, but since my passport had less than 10 years validity, the MM2H visa I got is valid for  4 years only.  I am supported to extend it for the remaining 6 years before mid Jan 2023.

I am currently not staying in Malaysia, and I do not have plan to stay there for 90 days every year.
So, would they reject to "extend" my MM2H visa for the remaining 6 years, when I present them a renewed passport?  This is not the typical extension we talk about, i.e. renewal of MM2H after each 10-year cycle.
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My suggestion is get a affidavit signed by your wife affirming that she approves of he removal  and notarized by a lawyer. Better be safe that sorry.

My impression is once Immigration approves it should not be an issue. Also, oddly, you MAY also require a statement from your agent/sponsor affirming your desire and their permission to withdraw form the MM2H program. The letter needs to be addressed to the Ministry of Immigration and apparently state the reason why you are leaving the program.

As if it's any of their business.

Jerry
- @cinnamonape

Thanks Jerry,

I thought about that, where I am staying right now , the only  alternative I see is to sign an affidavit, notarize it through Apostille so as to extend its validity worldwide and finally get it translated to english by an official translator. As you correctly stated "better safe than sorry"
On a side note , don't know if am allowed to mention the bank I unfortunately stumbled with, but if  I can mention it on this Forum, just let me know in order for fellow expats not to make my same mistake in the future

Thanks for your continuous help
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@Pat87 I'm not an expert on the Peninsular MM2H and suggest that you speak to your agent (if you have one) about the changed requirements since last year.

My understanding is that you will have your remaining 6 years years transfered into your new replacement passport. Technically you are not renewing or making an extension but making a TRANSFER of ENDORSEMENT. You WILL likely be hit with the new fees - RM500/year. But, because of complaints from the current MM2H community (agents and recipients) some aspects of MM2H were grandfathered for current holders of the visa. You will not be facing any of the other new requirements other than the 90 days a year residency requirement. The immigration Department has been rather MUM about whether they will require those already with visas to fulfill that requirement this year, or next year. So far they seem not to be enforcing it. I suspect they'll start being hard ass in 2023.

I don't know if they'll have any sort of interim check up procedure (maybe checking months of stay  when you do enter...though that sounds complicated) that would result in holders losing their visa in the years in-between renewals. OR alternatively, if you are Scot-Free until you Renew. Obviously, unless they change the rules, you'd lose your VISA in 2029 if you missed a 90 day stay any year from 2023-2028. You would not have met the conditions for renewal. I guess we'll learn the new system and how if affects people over the next couple of years. I simply don't know how they intend to enforce it. My guess is the reason that they are requiring an interim renewal for new applicants is to check on compliance with the 90 Day residency rule at that point. But I'm just guessing.

I suggest you browse just a few posts up on this stream which discuss what others think/fear/hope.

You should begin the process of transfer relatively soon...and at least a month before your passport/visa would have expired.  It's not difficult, taking just a few days, but you DO need to be in Malaysia. You'll need your old passport with your old visa and your new one, plus copies. Also your original  letter of Conditional Approval. Appropriate passport photos. Plus a few documents/forms. That states the actual terms of the original visa.  I think you'll get a short-term visa in your passport to complete the task and then you'll be cleared with the new 6 year visa in your new passport. If you self-applied you'll need to go in yourself, but if you have an agent they can do it (but they need your passport).


Just some terminology. An "extension" is adding more time onto your visa term. Thus if you had a ten year visa but needed a few weeks to deal with issues you'd apply for an "extension". A "renewal"as you state, is a full additional term of ten years (some have only gotten 5 though). A "transfer" is the simple task of getting a visa transferred for the remainder of its term to a new passport.
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@topazar I doubt mentioning the bank will help as it's likely the accounts manager. And that person could change. And other banks may also have the same attitude. Once you get the documents it should be no problem. If it is gently request if you can record on your phoneprecisely what you need to do to obtain "my deposit" as you have a bad memory for details. If you are not satisfied, Remind them that it is YOUR money and that having a law suit that prominently figures in the news might hurt their reputation with those who have accounts with the bank. Then ask to speak with his superior manager/director.

11. APPLICATION GUIDELINES FOR TERMINATION OF PASS
CLIENT CHARTER: 3 (THREE) WORKING DAYS

(i) IN MALAYSIA

Applicant or representative MM2H company must be present;
Intention letter for individual/agency representative letter for MM2H company;
Authorize letter to withdraw fixed deposit from Immigration Department of Malaysia;
Original passport;
Original & copy of flight ticket; and
Copy of Conditional Approval Letter.
(ii) TERMINATION PAS MM2H PARTICIPANTS IN ABROAD

Applicant must be present at nearest Malaysia Embassy/High Commision;
Intention letter for terminated pas MM2H;
Termination letter from MM2H Centre, Immigration Department;
Original passport (present at Malaysia Embassy/High Commision);
Copy of conditional approval letter; and
Latest exit endorsement/stamping cop from Malaysia

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@topazar  Oh BTW TopAzar. You may want to bring along your wifes passport to as they may need it to cancel her visa, too. And get a withdrawal letter from immigration in her name as well so you will have all the evidence you need that both of the holders of the account have cancelled.

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Sarawak has only a 15 day visitation requirement (at least currently) and, as you guys know - vastly lower financial requirements - so perhaps that is an alternative if things go badly on the Peninsula. AND ASFAIK the S-MM2H still allows those on it to reside in the Peninsula...though why one wouldn't rather live in lovely Sarawak where they don't treat you as Nth-Class residents, I can't fathom. It's beginning to sound like an abuse-clinic (or is it the argument-clinic) over thereabouts.
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@topazar  Oh BTW TopAzar. You may want to bring along your wifes passport to as they may need it to cancel her visa, too. And get a withdrawal letter from immigration in her name as well so you will have all the evidence you need that both of the holders of the account have cancelled.

- @cinnamonape

Thanks Jerry, you are awesome , it was definitely in my plans to bring my wife's original passport with me, I don't want to leave any knots untied . As for the letter , being myself the main applicant, the agent told me if I include her as an additional in the MM2H withdrawal letter that will do, not sure if they will issue 2 different termination letters, one in my name , and the other  one in hers

It is crystal clear that it is my money which is under lien at the Banks, but uneducated bank officers can make your life difficult should they  want to do so, so I will try gently to have it wired out asap

Kind regards
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@topazar
Hi Topazar,

I read that you're flying to KL to terminate your MM2H.  I will make a trip end of this year to transfer my current MM2H visa to my new passport, but I am also thinking about terminating it altogether due to the new requirements.
Do you know if we have to go the the address below for such MM2H termination / transfer?  When I applied for MM2H a few years ago, the address was different since the program was under Culture and Tourism Ministry.

Immigration Department of Malaysia Headquarters
(Ministry of Home Affairs)
No. 15,  1-7 Floor, (Podium)
Persiaran Perdana, Presint 2,
62550 Putrajaya.

And what time we shall be there in order to get processed on the same day? In the past, people had to go to the other buiding before 8am (or earlier) in order to a ticket.

It would be great if you could share your experience of your MM2H termination trip.
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@cinnamonape hi, I'm looking at the SMM2H how did you find the process? And what's it like living in sarawak?

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I applied a few years back so my experience may not be relevant today. The program went through one revision (allowing agents, which were previously not allowed, and some moderate expansions of the program for those under 50 years of age). There was also the collapse of the MM2H program in the interim with suspensions and massive increases in fees and other requirements. AND the pandemic travel restrictions. So the S-MM2H is inundated with applications right now and immigration has a backlog of people coming in to finalize their applications.

Expect delays.

There is a facebook site I set up called "Sarawak My Second Home Group" (it hasa square "frame" and about 1400 viewers...(the other group with that name is merely there to have a site with the "rules" of the program without commentary). It's lively and also covers a bit about events that mght be interesting to expats or those on S-MM2H. There is also a KuchingExpats Facebook group. They just had a small meetup at the Kuching Food Festival.

Kuching is a growing metropolis (malls, hotels, modern condos)  with a small town personality (friendly, low crime, corner coffee shops). Lots of museums, nature (a half dozen national parks within an hours drive), history (the  story and identity of Sarawak is linked closely to the White Rajahs of the Brooke dynasty). Several large music, dance and food festivals a year (Jazz, World Music, Latin Dance, Country, Food). Clean. English is widely spoken- more so than the Peninsula. Government is stable, more liberal than the Peninsula, with policies largely predictable. Population is about 30% Chinese, 30% Malay, and 40% "Dyak" of many different tribes. Religion is about 35-40% Sunni Muslim and 55% Christian (Catholic, Anglican, Methodist and Evangelical) with the remainder "other". Kuching is set off from the coast about 15 miles, but is accessible to coastal beaches. I find Sarawak cooler than KL, Singapore, Penang...maybe becase it isn't yet an urban heat island. Some days it does get darn hot. Rain is almost daily...brief and sometimes torrentil...for about a half hour. In the monsoon season it may rain twice a day...or rather day rain and a night rain. There's a highlands area - not as well visited as the Cameron Highlands- where temps fall into a cool to moderate range.

If you don't know a local Sarawakian to sponsor you you'll have to work through an agent.

More informatio about the rules and requirements here.


And here's a site recently put up by the Sarawak Tourism Board that has a nice video about the program.

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No surprise....

expatgo.com/my/2022/08/06/latest-mm2h-numbers-prove-the-new-rules-are-leading-to-a-big-loss-for-malaysia/
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I have a question regarding the proof of a stream of income from one"s country(as required for the MM2H). I have a landed property in my name in my home country in the form of flats and shops. How do I prove to them the rent I collect every year is sufficient for what they require?
Thanks.
Garba  Yusuf
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A
Hello,
,What category of business can one or cannot   engage in while on MM2H program? Can I participate in import-export trade? If not, what of acting as an agent in international trade?
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Hi aym77200,

I really hope that members of this forum will be able to help you.

Vero
Expat.com team
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MAJOR Change in the Sarawak MM2H Program.

First a minor change. As of 1 September 2022 New Applications and Reapplicants must demonstrate a 1 month residency each year in Sarawak. It's unclear if this requirement will only kick in as a term of the NEW visa...or will be required to get the New Visa under reapplication. That is, will reapplicants have to demonstrate 1 month/year stay to submit the reapplication/extension.

The Major change is that all NEW Applications AND REAPPLICATIONS will have to submit BOTH

1) a Proof of Income/Pension [RM7000 (single/RM10,000 (couple)] AND
2) Proof of a Fixed Deposit etablished in a Sarawak Bank. {RM150,000(single); RM300,000 (couple).

These were previously options, now noth will be required.

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New Sarawak MM2H Requirements.

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@cinnamonape

There does seem to be a little room for hope for current holders who qualified before 2020, in that the Renewals - Important Information section of the document says:
All applicants who wish to continue the programme for the
second 10-year should submit their application to the
Immigration Department of Malaysia, Sarawak as NEW
APPLICATION.

Before the rules changed in September 2020, the visa was for 5 years only. I'm hoping that means the new terms will only apply to those who got their visa under the rules obtaining from Sept 2020 onwards.

There was an agent who used to post here @aramazmm2h - perhaps he can clarify?
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I read this differently. The visa is for ten-years but with a five year review to assess whether one has met the residency requirement. So are you suggesting that the requirement for the FD AND Salary/Pension will not be required at that 5 year period? I think that is the reapplication. And then one has to submit everything all over again as if it was a new application.
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I read this differently. The visa is for ten-years but with a five year review to assess whether one has met the residency requirement. So are you suggesting that the requirement for the FD AND Salary/Pension will not be required at that 5 year period? I think that is the reapplication. And then one has to submit everything all over again as if it was a new application.
- @cinnamonape

No, I'm saying that we and others who applied before Sep 2020 will still be grandfathered in under the old rules in force before then (i.e. either/or on the FD/income proof) . Two SMM2H agents that I messaged today see it that way too.
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“Tourism, Creative Industry and Performing Arts Minister Dato Sri Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah said currently S-MM2H pass holders are only required to stay for 15 days.

In August 2022, to ensure the S-MM2H programme continues to benefit Sarawak, further refinement was proposed to enhance Requirements and Regulations of S-MM2H programme for consideration of extension or renewal of Visa,” he said in a statement issued during a news conference here yesterday.

Abdul Karim said other requirements maintained include the mandatory fixed deposit of RM150,000 for individuals or RM300,000 for couples at any local bank in Sarawak.

Proof of pension funds and offshore incomes are also required to demonstrate financial capability of applicants to support themselves while living in Sarawak."

Doesn't he say that the requirement will also apply to extensions and reapplications? There is not statement that those who applied before Sep 2020 or before Sep 2022 will be able to reapply under their original conditions. If they reapply they will be subject to the new rule THEN.

So that would mean, reading the statements most generously, that if someone like me who has a reapplication in December 2022 under the rules before  1) I would not have to show proof of domicile since my original requirement did not have such a restriction...but the next reapplication I would have to show I have fulfilled a 1 month/year requirement. But more importantly...
2) I would have to submit both a proof of previous 3 months gov't pension or 6 months income PLUS demonstrate that I have submitted a Fixed Deposit in order to receive the visa. This is now a requirement for extension or reapplication.
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“Tourism, Creative Industry and Performing Arts Minister Dato Sri Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah said currently S-MM2H pass holders are only required to stay for 15 days.

In August 2022, to ensure the S-MM2H programme continues to benefit Sarawak, further refinement was proposed to enhance Requirements and Regulations of S-MM2H programme for consideration of extension or renewal of Visa,” he said in a statement issued during a news conference here yesterday.

Abdul Karim said other requirements maintained include the mandatory fixed deposit of RM150,000 for individuals or RM300,000 for couples at any local bank in Sarawak.

Proof of pension funds and offshore incomes are also required to demonstrate financial capability of applicants to support themselves while living in Sarawak."

Doesn't he say that the requirement will also apply to extensions and reapplications? There is not statement that those who applied before Sep 2020 or before Sep 2022 will be able to reapply under their original conditions. If they reapply they will be subject to the new rule THEN.

So that would mean, reading the statements most generously, that if someone like me who has a reapplication in December 2022 under the rules before  1) I would not have to show proof of domicile since my original requirement did not have such a restriction...but the next reapplication I would have to show I have fulfilled a 1 month/year requirement. But more importantly...
2) I would have to submit both a proof of previous 3 months gov't pension or 6 months income PLUS demonstrate that I have submitted a Fixed Deposit in order to receive the visa. This is now a requirement for extension or reapplication.

Wouldn't they say that these requirements only apply to new applicants...which of course would mean, without saying, it would apply to THEIR extensions and reapplications?  But they specifically stated it applies to extensions and reapplications.
- @cinnamonape
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