Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H)

I guess if one got the Moderna 2 jab vaccine you can't get in? No
Mention of that one.

And that is a relaxation policy???

The article says that:
"Malaysians and non-Malaysians, including permanent residents and those enlisted in the Malaysia MY Second Home (MM2H) programme, with residences in the country, will only need to quarantine at home upon arrival from overseas"

Why do fully-vaccinated people still need to quarantine?
What about for those wihtout residence in Malaysia? Will they be rejected to enter the country?

Malaysia My Second Home to be reactivated with changes, says Home Ministry

The Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme has been reactivated with several changes made to the policy.

The decision to bring back the programme was made following a Cabinet decision on July 14 and 30 as part of a strategy under the National Economic Recovery to boost the economy.

Announcing this, Home Ministry secretary-general Datuk Wan Ahmad Dahlan Abdul Aziz said the temporary halt of the programme last year had enabled his ministry as well as the Tourism, Arts and Culture Ministry to review and re-evaluate the MM2H programme.

“New applications can be submitted beginning October and this process will be overseen by the Immigration Department,” he said on Wednesday (Aug 11).

Wan Ahmad Dahlan said aware of the people's concern over the entry of foreigners into the country via the programme, the government has agreed to set a ceiling on the number of participants, including principal and their dependents at one time to be not more than 1% of the number of Malaysian citizens.

There are currently 57,478 holders of the MM2H passes as well as their dependents.

The government has also introduced nine new conditions for those intending to apply for the programme, including participants must be in the country for at least 90 cumulative days in a year to ensure they truly contribute to the Malaysian economy.

Participants are also required to have offshore income of at least RM40,000 a month, compared to RM10,000 previously and a fixed deposit account with a minimum of RM1mil, where 50% maximum withdrawal from principal amount is allowed for the purpose of buying property, health and children's education.

The age for those eligible to apply has now been placed under two categories, namely for those between the age of 35 and 49, and the other category is for those 50 years and above.

“The government is introducing this category (ages 35 to 49) so that only participants who are financially stable and with permanent employment apply for the MM2H programme,” said Wan Ahmad Dahlan.

Wow $10,000 a month income is that retirement income? And $250k USD for a fixed deposit. They just ruled out about 80% of people who would even consider mm2h. They will have a rude awakening when no
One applies. So much for energizing the economy with that program. Keeping a large fixed deposit doesn't help the loca economy.
Money being spent does.
Goes to show you how out of touch the govt is. This is a new and better program lmfao.
No thanks I'll look else where. I don't know too many retirees that collect $10,000 a month. I don't make that working full time. Sheesh omg very bad new program.

LOL. I choked on my coffee.  RM40K per month plus RM1.5 million in liquid assets. Who the hell they think they are targeting? Sauidi princes?

Their way of ending the program 1% cap too. That would be 320,000 the current program had 57k until covid came along.
International schools are going to get hit hard.
Along with the real
Estate market. Can always go
To
Sarawak
Now smm2h much better program.

Any idea if the new rules apply for renewals of those whom already have been granted the MM2H visas previously?

Yes, according to the press release. It's causing a lot of anxiety, but let's wait for everything to be firmed up.

Best regards.

The anxiety will be with all the real
Estate companies property developers international schools. Apartment condo landlords. CAuse they're the one going to lose big time. When
57000 mm2hers pack
Up and leave. They think 1% is going to
Come
In they're in for
A rude awakening. They couldn't get close to that number with the mm2h before. With it getting this ridiculous they'll be lucky if they have 5k people left.

Totally agree with you, hope common sense will prevail.

Malaysia doesn't need 57,000 self-important low net worth retirees when the "Bersama Malaysia" iniative is attracting companies like Microsoft that are eagerly pumping up to $4.9 bil USD (each) directly into the economy.

And the international schools  will do just fine with the children of expatriate workers.

I know the damage has been done. Rest assured we are working hard to get the best outcome for existing MM2H visa holders.

Best regards.

aramazmm2h wrote:

I know the damage has been done. Rest assured we are working hard to get the best outcome for existing MM2H visa holders.

Best regards.

The ironic thing about all this is that consultants presumably were hired to review the program to make it better.  Wow, talk about wasted money!!!!  Not only is the program 2.0 worst you have lost all credibility.  A cornerstone of the program was the feature that you can renew at the original application requirements.  A fundamental, but key reason for why people wanted to join in the first place.  It is a promise.  But nooooo, you are going to take this basic promise away????  What a much of idiots!!!  And even if you back down after your economy suffers greatly from expats leaving and the selling off of more properties to add to the stockpile that you have already, who will believe you now and in the future????  Who is to say that you won't pull a stunt like this down the road????  Malaysia, you just royally F'd yourself!!!!

They'll hire low wage workers from India. With no need for kids in international schools. Besides they won't want to buy properties and invest in mm2h. Keep dreaming

1openmind wrote:

They'll hire low wage workers from India. With no need for kids in international schools. Besides they won't want to buy properties and invest in mm2h. Keep dreaming

Dreaming?

Before I start, I'll preface this a few simple factoids:

1. There are already more high income and Employment Pass (EP) holding expatriates living in Malaysia than there are MM2H holders.

There are 57,478 MM2H holders
There are nearly 40,000 EP1 holders (T20 income)
And another 160,000 EP2 holders

2. Most MM2H holders are actually Chinese nationals or from the Overseas Chinese community.

3. Malaysia's turned down over 90% of most recent applications.


Regarding international schools
Most of best international schools in the country are in Klang Valley, and there are far EP1 holders in Klang Valley than there are MM2H holders. As far as I can tell MM2H holders are more likely to end up in Penang... and the average T20% income over 31% higher in Klang Valley than anywhere else in the country.

The biggest International schools won't really miss retirees 57,500, most of whom aren't even living around the most prestigious schools.

Regarding condos
1. The country is trying to slow down the foreign purchasing of condos, and EP1 holders are likely to live in high-end condos leased by their employers.

2. Most of the foreigners buying up condos aren't MM2H holders. They're foreign investors from within Asia simply looking to diversify their holdings. Before COVID-19 I was going on tours of new development sites that didn't even have sales material in English. They had to fetch an English speaker to give me the tour, because the target market is the massive overseas Chinese market...

Regarding foreign investment
Malaysia created MM2H before it was a middle income nation and it needed to focus on soliciting high-tech direct foreign investment. MM2H was created back when the country really DID need the MM2H money and the international exposure from a program like it.

Like I mentioned before, Microsoft alone is investing billions of dollars directly into the Malaysian economy. Microsoft's investment alone is equal to every MM2H holder pumping $80,030 directly into the economy.

And that's just Microsoft.

And don't even get me started on the massive focus on development and investments in Iskandar Malaysia (Johor).


Regarding the political and demographic implications of MM2H
The policymakers have decided that they don't want the entire country to be overrun by Chinese money, even more than it already is.

They already had to change the residency status granted to foreign property buyers to curb a wave of immigration, then they just flat-out started denying MM2H applications after Hong Kongers started applying for MM2H en masse.

MM2H holders aren't taxed at the same rates as employment pass holders and aren't direct job creators.

Malaysia has decided that it isn't worth the risk anymore, it's that simple. But, to state that the only foreign workers are low wage workers is erroneous.

Malaysia just doesn't need most MM2H holders anymore, I'm sure it sucks to hear, but it's true.

They need job creators and anybody who has enough money to be missed can easily start a company here and give themselves an employment pass to live here.

Otherwise, they're likely to be a highly affluent person from Hong Kong or China... And they'll still have enough money to get approved.

informative write-up.
Thanks

https://www.imidaily.com/asia-pacific/m … 0-a-month/

Does appear to be an attempt to drastically reduce the number of people who would consider the program. I know very few people who would qualify. I don't for sure, so I have to rely on my spouse visa and be prepared to leave if something happens to my wife.

Ok, thanks FireRooster1 for slapping me in the face (wake up!!!!)....

No, Malaysia (or any country really) has every right to control the entry of too many foreigners onto its shores.  The problem though is, who is still going to be able to come even under the new guidelines?  Won't it still be folks from China mostly?  I guess diversity of expats is not exactly  their goal..... 

On a side note, what I saw in Malaysia when I was there pre-Covid was a ton of building. Way overbuilding.  I had an entire high rise condo complex practically to myself.  So although they "cry" about the foreigners they sure do like us when we buy some of that property that their own people can't afford to buy.  Talk about being two faced.  You want us, yet, you don't want us....

Slim chance I suppose but I am hoping that since I was approved technically already under the old rules that I am able to finish it up that way. Heck, if I can get one 10 year term is probably fine....

Any word on the status of the Sarawak band Sabah programs? I was leaning towards them over the west Malaysia program anyway. Will they follow suit?

VitoNegroni wrote:

Any word on the status of the Sarawak band Sabah programs? I was leaning towards them over the west Malaysia program anyway. Will they follow suit?

How can you trust anyone or anything over there now (West or East)????  Look at all the current MM2Hers who now may have to sell their properties and maybe have to find completely new homes in new countries if they can't return to their original home.  What a freaking mess!!!!   This is what you get with an incompetent but in power greedy government!!!!  My advise, go somewhere else.

Well, for one I'm from the US, so I'm used to hostile and incompetent governments. So everything is CYA. I would never consider buying property I wasn't sure I could unload. Thus, I would never buy property there, unless I had so much money I didn't care and could write off the loss. But what you're saying is, you don't know the answer. I suppose no one does. No one knows until something is posted or has some intel.

With the new regulations on the way, MM2H will be a history for most of us and it will be only for selected high net worth individuals. I feel sorry for retired people enjoying Malaysia. 

What are the alternatives available for MM2H elsewhere in the world?

rkla wrote:

What are the alternatives available for MM2H elsewhere in the world?

Panama pensionado visa.
Portugal

@RKLA
Depends on what you want, The big draw of MM2H is of course that overseas income isn't taxed and depending on where you live everyone speaks english.

I for one never considered buying property in Malaysia, but not sure what the numbers are of mm2h holders that did.

Other options in the region off the top of my hat would be: Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, Cambodia, but I'm sure there are more.

I do wonder if the new rules will apply retroactively, if that's the case I might consider just taking out my deposit .

@
Copied from another board.

First off...the wealthy already could apply under the old terms. That applied to these Middle Eastern sheikhs, princelings, etc. Movie stars and corporate executives could come in under the old terms provided they followed the rules.
So for them the new income levels would hve no impact except for forcing them to put a million ringgit in a low interest FD when they could have it earning 10-20% in a more calculated investment that was more liquid. Plus there are a half dozen other visas they could apply for that would allow them to work and invest much more easily.
As far as I can see there are really no added perks to the program to actually make it more attractive to wealthy. Even for them its a disadvantage. Wealthy people didn't usually become wealthy by throwing away quarter million dollars into illiquid accounts. They want a good deal like the rest of us.
And a wealthy celebrity may not want to live in Malaysia 3 months of the year.
So as far as I can see all this plan does is eliminate the average hard-working retiree and overseas worker (i.e. job out of Malaysia but residing there part of the year) and actually SOME of the wealthy who took advantage of the reasonable terms, spent money here.
Now one would hope that the Ministers and Advisors at the Federal level would have some decent background in economics and concepts like cost-benefit analysis, price-points, image (brand) carryover (this will impact tourism generally).
Financially, for Malaysia, this makes no sense. It sucks out billions of ringgits in foreign-earned inputs into the economy. And that large FD would only help the Treasury temporarily (even if the got applicants) - its a "loan" (that supports the value of the ringgit) that has to be paid back...presumably...when the applicant leaves. The flight of tens of thousands of M2H recipients pulling their money out of their FD's will cause a "run" on the banks. If 20,000 principal applicants withdraw and pull their RM300000 from their account (I'm not counting the younger people who have greater FD's) that's RM6,000,000,000 immediately out of the banks. Six billion.
The housing market will be glutted with people selling their homes and condos which will create pressure on that market to lower prices. Developers will see less profit on their unsold units. Those MM2H renting will not renew their leases, creating huge oversupply in the rental market. Residential construction, development and real estate will take a massive hit...and this will carry over to the domestic market since it's often locals who buy a resale units, and developers subsidize their low-end properties by higher-end sales.
Then there's the fact that those on MM2H that reside in Malaysia are generating vastly more for the economy than an average tourist. It's the multiplier effect. A single MM2H'er here for 50 week a year is worth about the same as 50 "one-week stay" tourists, a couple 100 times, a couple with two dependents - 200 times. Tourism requires heavy promotion and is a constant battle to get new tourists. They are here, and gone. The MM2H recipient is around for a decade or more and the numbers grow (or could) from year to year as new recipients are added to the pool. So that one couple is not simply 100 times a short term tourist in terms of "value"...they are like the repeat customer to a shop...buying over decades. So in ten years they are worth 1000 times a short-term tourist.
I'm wondering if there is a level of xenophobia involved in the political elite (steeped in anti-colonialist grudges fermented in schools)...or maybe they are just exploiting it amongst the masses. Or maybe it is just "classism"...they don't mind hobnobbing with the famous movie stars and foreign royals it seems. "High-wealth celebrities" Ie specifically cited as the target audience that agents should be seeking.

Dream on if you think the new program is going to have any positive results. That's your prerogative.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

One other thing it was mentioned that Microsoft is coming, So what how will that help Penang? That's where a good majority of expats reside. All those apartments and condo's will go empty. Landlords are going to suffer the fall out. If they come to Penang how will that help anywhere else? Can only live in one place. On top of over building too many condo's and now this. The developers are going to be hurting too.

floaton wrote:

@RKLA
Depends on what you want, The big draw of MM2H is of course that overseas income isn't taxed and depending on where you live everyone speaks english...

I do wonder if the new rules will apply retroactively, if that's the case I might consider just taking out my deposit .

I don't think many countries tax overseas income for non-citizens. US taxes citizens on any domestic and overseas income...but there are some big credits on the foreign derived income.

And the provisions of the new MM2H specifically stated that it will be retrospectively applied when the visa expires. If you want to renew or extend it...you must show that you are eligible under the new rules. I don't know if it applies to transfer of a visa into a new passport. But they specifically stated renewal means going into the program and meetig its requirements.

Where have you been?  It's been days now since the bomb landed....

On other MM2H boards...and managing my own FN site...and responding to a flood of "worried" correspondents by email... but I do see one of my contributions above.

I personally don't see any changes immediately in the Sarawak MM2H...except perhaps in "branding". They may not want to be associated with the stench of MM2H anymore. Maybe "Sarawak Longstay Visa" or something like that.

Sarawak always had their own rules re. immigration and autonomy in tourism, health and education as part of the Malaysia Act 1963 (the merger of East and West Malaysia   Singapore). Many already feel bullied by West Malaysia so going along with such changes would not be politically astute. It would appear they were giving up autonomy. Another factor, it seems that the MM2H Program was stripped from the portfolio of the Minister of Tourism, Nancy Shukri (a Sarawakian from the governing GPS Party). My guess is that she didn't agree with this so it was put under the Home Minister's control. No Minister likes to have their portfolio cut. I think that is tension there. But we'll see.

The Federal Government may try to block the "backdoor" which allowed those on S-MM2H to live in the Peninsula. That's part of the MA63 deal...those who have Sarawak issued visas can use those in Malaysia to travel or live. And the current Federal government needs Sarawak to hold power. But if they do people could still use their Sarawak MM2H to live in Sarawak on the terms there. Are they going to prevent all SMM2H visa holders from visiting the Peninsula? And selling their properties there? They might as well just tell ALL foreigners (including EPs and PRs) that they can't buy property...that the government can rescind that right at any moment without legal recourse.

I would point out that the government tries to maintain balance between the community in Sarawak rather than play racial politics...so "pendatang politics" (the assertion that Indian and Chinese-descent Malays are "foreigners") is largely absent.

If you read the actual Cabinet Policy Statement its full of false or exagerated assertions about why the policy change was required - including the ridiculous and totally unnecessary cap on the program at 1% of the Malaysian population (new acceptances are 0.01% of Malaysias 33,000,000 population annually...3000). The Department of statistics states that Malaysia will gain 11 million people over the next decade. 30,000 more recipients is minuscule. With attrition due to age it might reach 50K, which would be 1/10th of one percent. It's not an imminent threat. Especially since MM2H can't work in Malaysia, can't accrue points for PR, and thus cannot become citizens. They cn ONLY bring their foreign-earned capital INTO Malaysia (except of course the interest on those mandatory Fixed Deposits).

Good stuff as always cinnamonape.

Ok, the $64K question for you... (oh, let's raise that to $250K in the spirit of new MM2H), do you think the powers that be will change or modify the guidelines down due to pressure from all sides (current participants, proposed, agents, impacted industries, etc.)?  Do they have a history of caving in or will they unfortunately stay the course in your opinion?  We wont hold you to it, of course, but you seem to be in the know when it comes to these matters.  Thank you!

I don't have any idea. I don't follow Peninsular politics that much. How many times have they imposed and retreated from and reimposed MCO's? Or loosened them, and the tighten SOPs again?

Ok, folks, I did a Change.org petition on this matter. Go read it and sign it please.  Let's show the powers to be how many people are interested in changing the program to something back that is reasonable.  Tell your friends and family to sign it as well.  Yeah, the Malaysian government may not care, but let's try gang!!!!!

[link under review]

Let us know if Sarawak will maintain their rules...although the fact that they are part of the coalition government that did this and Nancy Shukri is Tourism Minister from GPS-Sarawak makes me extremely nervous. Did she fight this tooth and nail? Where are the resignations about this as a result?

This does nothing to help Malaysias economic recovery and rather than correcting and educating the people that claimed false things about MM2H the government actually played into the fear mongering. There is no more need for a cap on MM2H immigration than a cap on the number of Bigfoot or Yeti's getting visas. The numbers are too small...they would never reach 1% of the population of Sarawak, (even when you count dependent visas issued of those that have grown up and left the country and those who have not renewed). Total numbers of visas issued are not the actual numbers of those on the visas RESIDENT.

There was no "dumping" of unqualified people by other governments as suggested in the document. I wasn't "dumped" and I doubt a single other recipient was either. We chose Malaysia because it was affordable, beautiful with generally friendly and non-xenophobic average people. I think something must be in the water at Putrajaya though.

I get it it's their country and what not. I've been on EP1 visa for a while now and I guess they don't need garbage low level people like us anymore. Hell, I don't know many working professionals outside of a few in Silicon Valley who can afford this kind of requirement. BUT, In also fail to see the value proposition for the high end 1% ultra-rich here. For this kind of money there are better, more advanced and politically stable countries on the table.

Zloba wrote:

I get it it's their country and what not. I've been on EP1 visa for a while now and I guess they don't need garbage low level people like us anymore. Hell, I don't know many working professionals outside of a few in Silicon Valley who can afford this kind of requirement. BUT, In also fail to see the value proposition for the high end 1% ultra-rich here. For this kind of money there are better, more advanced and politically stable countries on the table.

These idiots think MM2H is like Chanel or Louis Vuitton purses.  Uh no, if someone doesn't make $10K a month, they don't make $10K a month and will not somehow magically think the program is better now....

With the government merry go around once again in full operation, I am hoping some sort of revision downwards will happen.  Hopefully a compromise on the amounts and allowing current participants to go back to renewals under their original application terms.  Yes, I tend to be a dreamer...

Don't make any rash decisions. The present Government has just fallen. Anything can happen now. Maybe back to Square one?

FireRooster1 wrote:

Malaysia doesn't need 57,000 self-important low net worth retirees when the "Bersama Malaysia" iniative is attracting companies like Microsoft that are eagerly pumping up to $4.9 bil USD (each) directly into the economy.

And the international schools  will do just fine with the children of expatriate workers.

Where did you get the $4.9B figure?  According to this article, the number is $1B and over a five-year period.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/micr … 021-04-19/

https://www.expatgo.com/my/2021/08/12/s … a-holders/