Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H)

1openmind wrote:

ENORMOUS loss from MM2H says Johor Sultan

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/ … NK59PIX0x4

Funny how the wheels get rolling mighty quick when the Royals' money is impacted....

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/ … mm2h-terms

"And, last but not least, don't be touching my money!!!!!"

MM2H

RIP

"Now bugger off home all you foreigners"

(Rough translation of government policy)

I must first confess that sometime back I enquired about joining the MM2H program and was told quickly that I did not meet the financial conditions, particularly my government pension was below the minimum required. I was of course disappointed as I speak Malay and have spent many enjoyable holidays in Malaysia - and actually worked for many years in Malaysia (East and West) as an Internal Auditor attached to a Singapore company.
I could be bitter about being rejected - but let me make it clear that I thought the old scheme was too generous and allowed "foreigners" with merely a retirement visa to purchase as many landed properties as they wished. Which other country allows that?
Many will of course say that it is questionable whether one would invest in Malaysian properties - but hey, with the current Covid-19 situation, many living in cramped apartments in neighbouring countries would jump at the opportunity. (I know that is the case in many countries now, where landed properties are preferred and generally out of reach).
My point is, the Malaysian Government whether intentionally or not, has saved Malaysians from being swamped by foreigners gobbling up "cheap" landed Malaysian properties.
I would suggest that, to be fair to the locals, the MM2H program should impose restrictions on the purchase of landed property.
I hope the average Malaysian will soon enjoy increased purchasing power in a wonderful country.

withdrawn

Some facts.

First...MM2H only allows the purchase of TWO landed properties, some States restrict to ONE. Maybe you are on a different visa that lets you purchase whole developments???

Two...Average MM2H recipient will be priced out by these rules. They aren't wealthy enough to buy multiple properties. Multi-millionaires who could afford such large investments,  however are not restricted financially.

Three...most analysts point out that there is a substantial overhang (aka vacancy) crisis in Malaysia. It's about evenly split between the homes priced for the lowest and middle ranges, and the upper-end properties. So there are lots of houses and condos out there, with lots of subsidies and discounts.  They still aren't buying. That's NOT because there are TOO MANY MM2H people buying property.

But it's a convenient think to falsely spread myths to create Boogie Men about "foreigners" whether it be Western "Colonialists", or Chinese or Indian "pendatangs".

cinnamonape wrote:

Some facts.

Three...most analysts point out that there is a substantial overhang (aka vacancy) crisis in Malaysia. It's about evenly split between the homes priced for the lowest and middle ranges, and the upper-end properties. So there are lots of houses and condos out there, with lots of subsidies and discounts.  They still aren't buying. That's NOT because there are TOO MANY MM2H people buying property.

But it's a convenient think to falsely spread myths to create Boogie Men about "foreigners" whether it be Western "Colonialists", or Chinese or Indian "pendatangs".

This is the thing about the Malaysia RE market that folks there just don't seem to get or want to get since they are involved in it themselves. A youtube blogger who is like the lapdog for the RE developers there did not want to hear my comment that appreciation in RE investments there is probably tough to come by when the supply of new condos for example keep increasing every minute without the same demand clearing them off the shelves.  Oh, so supply and demand doesn't apply to Malaysia?  Yeah, right buddy.  Unless you have a property that is really well located why would anyone buy your old condo when he/she can buy a brand new one down the street from the developer directly who is eager to give discounts or favorable financing terms?

With short term rental rates so low, especially on AirBnB, I would probably never buy a condo there if I manage to process through the MM2H program after all.  The only exception is a unique landed property that I can see is worth holding for future generations use. It was one example but when I was there pre-Covid checking out areas, my bro-inlaw introduced me to his boss who lived in a nice gated community in JB where supposedly families of royalty also resided or played golf.  Well, he was willing to sell one of the nice landed properties he owned there to me at a loss.  WTH?????

I'd have to weigh the costs of renting VS buying. I already know I will not break even after 5 years. Probably have to sell for a 10% loss at least. So Say you buy a Condo for USD$250k or a Semi-d.
You sell it for 225 or maybe less? Who knows? This is just hypothetical.
Then lets say you rented the same for 5 years. 600 a month. That's $7200 a year for 5 years. $36000 in rent. Now say you sold it in 5 years for say 220k? Wanted to get out and needed a quick sale.
Took a 30k loss. But didn't pay $36k in rent.
Now lets say you took that $250k and invested it in a 9% dividend stock. In 1 year you'll have received $22,500 in dividends. 5 years you have over $100k in dividends. Provided they didn't cut them so let's say they did cut them to 8% the next year That's 21800. Then another cut to 7%. At this point your way ahead by renting than owning.

After doing some simple math it works out way better to rent than to buy. Keep rolling those monthly or quarterly dividends back in and it even grows more and more or use them to live on. Pick a bunch of dividend stocks and create a nice portfolio where each month money keeps coming in regardless of monthly or quarterly. This is just an example why renting turns out better. Besides it's easy to say hey I want to relocate to another area country city etc.

https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/59213 … fire.glass


I like what they have to say here. SPOT ON! I guess I'll be looking elsewhere.

Wonder why so many insiders are against the changes???

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia … mb/2006796

Yeah, let's stop accusing foreigners for your country's ills.....

Geez, how do you tell who are the honest ones????

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-as … -involving

Anti corruption commission gets caught taking graft. How ironic!!! Do as I say not as I do lol
Probably the fault of some low life MM2H'ers!

1openmind wrote:

Anti corruption commission gets caught taking graft. How ironic!!! Do as I say not as I do lol
Probably the fault of some low life MM2H'ers!

Your energy would be better spent looking elsewhere...

Taiwan & The Philippines would be a nice way to spend most of the year.

Cobolin wrote:

FireRooster1 wrote:

Cobolin wrote:

It's your allegation that Malaysians don't care for MM2H, so you provide the links and quotes.

You want me to prove a negative?

You said: "If you want to see what the AVERAGE Malaysia thinks just find a news post about MM2H and read the Malay comments." Then in your very next post, you point out that there are no comments on the BM Malaysiakini article.

I want to read comments from average Malaysians. You said they exist, so prove it. Otherwise you're just making stuff up to try to defend your allegation.

[BTW, I totally accept your point that foreign entrepreneurs employing locals are far more valuable to Malaysia than MM2Hers. But I find it hard to accept that several thousand mostly retirees bringing in RM100k+ per year each and spending it in the local economy has next to no value for Malaysia.]

Does MM2H bring in value? Undoubtedly.

Does the average person think about MM2H enough to miss the visa holders? No.
(They're literally more likely to worry about just paying their own bills than what some retirees are trying to do.)

Does Putrajaya care? No.

Should they care? They think that's debatable. I think they should, but the Home Ministry doesn't.

FireRooster1 wrote:

1openmind wrote:

Anti corruption commission gets caught taking graft. How ironic!!! Do as I say not as I do lol
Probably the fault of some low life MM2H'ers!

Your energy would be better spent looking elsewhere...

Taiwan & The Philippines would be a nice way to spend most of the year.

While we "bash" Malaysia for some shortcomings, she has her good points....

Taiwan: I wouldn't bet my life's savings that China would never come a knocking...

Philippines:  Don't know enough about her but i sense infrastructure not as developed or modern.  Fair? Some concern over safety?

VWC wrote:

FireRooster1 wrote:

1openmind wrote:

Anti corruption commission gets caught taking graft. How ironic!!! Do as I say not as I do lol
Probably the fault of some low life MM2H'ers!

Your energy would be better spent looking elsewhere...

Taiwan & The Philippines would be a nice way to spend most of the year.

While we "bash" Malaysia for some shortcomings, she has her good points....

Taiwan: I wouldn't bet my life's savings that China would never come a knocking...

Philippines:  Don't know enough about her but i sense infrastructure not as developed or modern.  Fair? Some concern over safety?

The wealthiest enclaves in The Philippines are nicer than where 99% of the expats in Malaysia live... and they have 5G. Areas like BGC are more comparable to Putrajaya than to KL.

The problem is most of the country is definitely lagging.

NO I want to
Come
Live next door to you! We can be best buds and you can tell me about how you hate foreigners ruining your little paradise cause you want to be the only foreigner there.

1openmind wrote:

NO I want to
Come
Live next door to you! We can be best buds and you can tell me about how you hate foreigners ruining your little paradise cause you want to be the only foreigner there.

Hidup itu terlalu singkat untuk aku ambil peduli akan orang Amerika yang bongkak. Kita tidak bermain di gelanggang yang sama, tidaklah juga jaringan keranjang yang sama.

I hear a rooster crowing.

Can't read that try English or was it too many curse words? I just want to be your next door neighbor.
You can teach me Bahasa! And take me to all your favorite restaurants, bars etc.


Any developed area in the Philippines is way more expensive than Malaysia. Thailand has a lot of things to do. The beaches are much nicer.
Which is great because I'll be taking lots of trips from Malaysia to Thailand, Bali, Cambodia, Philippines, etc. etc.

IT's a great location to get on cheap flights to anywhere.

So why bothering with Malaysia then! just move to one of these countries you mentioned !?

Why not I want to make friends with xenophobes! They can see 1st hand how we can contribute to their country.

how nice of you!

Why thank you have a good one!

1openmind wrote:

I hear a rooster crowing.

Can't read that try English or was it too many curse words? I just want to be your next door neighbor.
You can teach me Bahasa! And take me to all your favorite restaurants, bars etc.


Any developed area in the Philippines is way more expensive than Malaysia. Thailand has a lot of things to do. The beaches are much nicer.
Which is great because I'll be taking lots of trips from Malaysia to Thailand, Bali, Cambodia, Philippines, etc. etc.

IT's a great location to get on cheap flights to anywhere.

Talk about an ironic username.

First lesson: Bahasa means language... So... I can't teach you "Bahasa", that should be left to primary school teachers.

Second lesson: It's the national language. If the idea of someone speaking in Melayu is offensive to you, then you're better off looking for cheap real estate in Florida or Arizona.

Third & final lesson: You're not that important, Thailand won't tell you that because a good portion of their economy depends on tourism, but if you ever spent ANY time outside of the tourist or expat areas, and actually learned Thai, you'd realize that you'd know that you'll always be Farang and you could never be seen as someone who should live in Thailand. They'll always ask you how long you've been there and will be gobsmacked if you managed to even croak out three words in Thai... But, what do I know? I just lived in Khlong San and did business w/ the Thais... Tell me more about the beaches and how much traveling you're going to do... LOL

You're just an American economic refugee that can't handle hearing that you're not the most important person in the world... And that's okay, we all have to come to that realization one day... Today's just your day.

I get this might be your first time realizing you're not actually the most desirable person in the universe, but that doesn't mean you're experiencing xenophobia.

It just means you're so privileged you can't imagine a country saying no.

Selamat datang ke realiti.

Or, maybe in a way you'd understand... "Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!".

Maybe it's you that can't handle you're not the most important person in this world?

NO THEY DON'T need MM2H lmfao


MALAYSIANS ON THE BRINK OF BANKRUPTCY – WITH 580K FAMILIES SLIPPING INTO ABSOLUTE POVERTY – YET UNTHINKING MINISTERS LIKE HAMZAH WANT TO RISK A ‘GREAT EXODUS' OF FOREIGN CAPITAL WITH HIS MM2H REQUIREMENTS HIKE
Business, Politics | September 21, 2021 by | 0 Comments

https://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/?p=2 … ZxsOKO7CUU

New MM2H terms will cause great exodus, survey shows

KUALA LUMPUR: Many Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) pass holders may pull out from the programme and head elsewhere, especially Thailand, if the government insists on new conditions announced on Aug 11.

Malaysia My Second Home Consultants Association (MM2HCA) president Anthony Liew told a press conference today that surveys conducted with TEG media and the Japan Club of Kuala Lumpur (JCKL) found that most MM2H participants do not meet the new RM40,000 offshore income requirement.

The Malaysian government knows raising the financial requirements will impact the MM2H program. Maybe the government is trying to curb certain nationalities by doing so. Maybe they want to have foreigners come here to provide the sought-for skills instead of retirement while keeping the percentage of foreigner at bay. After all Malaysia is a sovereign country and can decide what is best for them.
As we have discussed this topic before, there is no argument that the MM2H benefits the country financially. However, it is not the lifeline the country must have or else; even though the poverty rate has spiked in Malaysia as it did almost everywhere due to COVID.
I am sure the new requirements disappoint many people, especially those looking to come here and enjoy the beautiful country. I hope they re-consider the new rules.

Kovu01 wrote:

The Malaysian government knows raising the financial requirements will impact the MM2H program. Maybe the government is trying to curb certain nationalities by doing so. Maybe they want to have foreigners come here to provide the sought-for skills instead of retirement while keeping the percentage of foreigner at bay. After all Malaysia is a sovereign country and can decide what is best for them.
As we have discussed this topic before, there is no argument that the MM2H benefits the country financially. However, it is not the lifeline the country must have or else; even though the poverty rate has spiked in Malaysia as it did almost everywhere due to COVID.
I am sure the new requirements disappoint many people, especially those looking to come here and enjoy the beautiful country. I hope they re-consider the new rules.

Let's be honest, who will more than likely still manage to make the cut under the new rules?  The Chinese, from HK or Mainland.  The new rules will just curb practically everyone else.  The government's thinking that the MM2H program is like a highly sought after Chanel handbag (raise the price and they will come) simply does not compute.  Malaysia was never Destination #1 for the rich anyway so raising the price is not going to miraculously increase the apps from that sector.  No way, especially when you have a minimum stay requirement.  What rich person would be stupid enough to abide by such a rule?

1openmind wrote:

NO THEY DON'T need MM2H lmfao


MALAYSIANS ON THE BRINK OF BANKRUPTCY – WITH 580K FAMILIES SLIPPING INTO ABSOLUTE POVERTY – YET UNTHINKING MINISTERS LIKE HAMZAH WANT TO RISK A ‘GREAT EXODUS' OF FOREIGN CAPITAL WITH HIS MM2H REQUIREMENTS HIKE
Business, Politics | September 21, 2021 by | 0 Comments

https://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/?p=2 … ZxsOKO7CUU

Source: Bloomberg

Malaysia, India Top Asian Forecasts for Faster Growth in 2022
By Cynthia Li and Myungshin Cho
September 21, 2021, 6:00 AM GMT+8



Economic activity next year in Malaysia and India, two of the countries most affected by Covid-19 outbreaks in recent months, is expected to recover faster than earlier forecast, latest surveys show.

Malaysia's growth outlook was upgraded by the most in the region -- 85 basis points to an expansion of 5.65% next year, according to the latest survey results compiled by Bloomberg. India was a close second, with its economy expected to grow 6.7%, 80 basis points faster than previously seen.

Economists have raised their growth projections for most Asian countries, except Thailand and New Zealand, which saw their outlooks slashed by at least 20 basis points, while Indonesia's outlook was little changed.

Malaysia, which posted one of the world's highest daily new infection rates over the past month and underwent a leadership change, doesn't face any immediate economic risks. The economy's performance was supported by improvement in domestic demand and continued robust exports, as second-quarter gross domestic product grew 16.1%.

Strong demand is keeping India on track to achieving the world's fastest growth in the year to March, with new weekly infections dropping to the lowest in more than 6 months as of Sunday. The country's economic losses have been limited so far, and it will be boosted by factors such as better-adapted firms, stable financial conditions and robust global growth spillovers, said Madhavi Arora, lead economist at Emkay Global Financial Services Ltd.

The survey on consumer price trends showed the biggest revision to New Zealand's outlook, with inflation there seen accelerating by 90 basis points to 2.3% next year. Singapore and Australia are likely to follow suit with headline inflation seen rising by at least 40 basis points.

“The latest print for wages and inflation showed a strong uptick” for New Zealand, said Thomas Rudgley, economist at Oxford Economics, adding that some of these core drivers of upward pressure will re-emerge, until migration resumes and tightness in the labor market eases.

580k in poverty many more will follow. Mm2h lifeline has been cut. Too bad Malaysian gov't can't be trusted in the international community. If they did this what else will they do? Seize your property if you do own any? What other new corruption will they do next? Many more questions so few answers. Even the corruption commission was corrupt.
If the pandemic wasn't enough getting shot in 1 foot they shot themselves in the other foot this time.

maybe they just don't want westerners! does that compute !?

1openmind wrote:

580k in poverty many more will follow. Mm2h lifeline has been cut. Too bad Malaysian gov't can't be trusted in the international community. If they did this what else will they do? Seize your property if you do own any? What other new corruption will they do next? Many more questions so few answers. Even the corruption commission was corrupt.
If the pandemic wasn't enough getting shot in 1 foot they shot themselves in the other foot this time.

LOL

"How will Malaysians ever live without middle class Westerners?

"We're so wealthy and the international community will hear how our visa policy was changed after 18 years!"

Meanwhile in Malaysia
https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/ … yers-boost

Tech: RM508 mil investment in Penang by South Korea's Simmtech to give local equipment players a boost

Phase 1 of the project will cost US$120 million (RM508 million), including land acquisition, construction of a factory and the purchase of equipment, with operation slated to commence by the first half of next year. The new facility is expected to create 1,200 high-value jobs in engineering, manufacturing and quality management by the first half of 2023.

There's a reason why MM2H was handled by the Ministry of Tourism and not the Ministry of International Trade and Industry...

Investors don't care about you.

You can always come visit Penang when the world reopens. 

Practice waiing.

I wouldn't invest anything in Malaysia. Unless you like watching your investment devaluate. Like housing. Lol

Anybody else see this piece supporting scrapping the MM2H program? 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/scrap-ma … cob-george

VWC wrote:

Anybody else see this piece supporting scrapping the MM2H program? 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/scrap-ma … cob-george

Paranoid much? The poor guy is practically frothing at the mouth over the evils of MM2Hers.

That's what Xenophobes do! These people have  incomes and contribute to the economy.
Unlike America bringing in 1000's of Afghanis Haitians, you name it. They done have incomes jobs or skills. Yet we open the door
Wide open for them. We have to
Provide them
All with free food housing clothes medical. Etc.
hoping one day they will
Be contributing members of USA and paying taxes.

So, according to my agent there, they have managed to get a few approvals done under the old MM2H rules somehow.  They are saying the border is loosening up and maybe be prepared to come granted with the expectation of a 14 day hotel quarantine.  I don't think I am willing to travel there while the Covid numbers are still kind of high so I am willing to wait some.  Sure, if I can sneak in under the old rules with the 10 years term, that would be sweet.  You all in the same boat (approved but not finished yet) might want to contact your agents if applicable.

I am seriously considering Thailand fixed deposit $20k or proof of income $2k a month.
Try Thailand for a year then maybe get the SMM2H?