International Relations

The "national consultation" is a Hungary only action.
Orban does this often uses this mechanism and then ignores the results. He never has enough votes to act upon any of these faux referendums.

And, it's got nothing to do with the EU. - @fluffy2560
If the EU doesn't like it, they will remove Hungary's voting rights.
Orban is accused of potential vote rigging without evidence, but the EU has said it might actually do it. - @Fred

Not for the national consultation.   It's nothing to do with the EU.

The EU doesn't have competence for that (in the legal sense).

Orban and Co have definitely engaged in gerrymandering etc.  We all know it.   

BTW, there was a recent news article that Hungary is the most corrupt country in the EU.  Not really a label you want on your country.

I have just enjoyed a very nice chat with a Russian who lives in the Penza region, an area not that far from Ukraine.

He seemed like a rather pleasant chap, and there were a lot of stations trying to talk to him.

Diplomacy through friendship and hobbies instead of hate and mistrust.

I have just enjoyed a very nice chat with a Russian who lives in the Penza region, an area not that far from Ukraine.
He seemed like a rather pleasant chap, and there were a lot of stations trying to talk to him.
Diplomacy through friendship and hobbies instead of hate and mistrust. - @Fred

Does he actively support Ukrainian freedom and independence,  think Putin should withdraw troops back to their original borders and agrees Russia to pay massive reparations for all the damage they've done?

I have just enjoyed a very nice chat with a Russian who lives in the Penza region, an area not that far from Ukraine.He seemed like a rather pleasant chap, and there were a lot of stations trying to talk to him. Diplomacy through friendship and hobbies instead of hate and mistrust. - @FredDoes he actively support Ukrainian freedom and independence, think Putin should withdraw troops back to their original borders and agrees Russia to pay massive reparations for all the damage they've done? - @fluffy2560

We don't talk politics on the radio so I have no idea.

Does it matter?

It's a hobby.

It just struck me - There are two sides - you and your mates do hate, but the people I hang with do friendships.

I have just enjoyed a very nice chat with a Russian who lives in the Penza region, an area not that far from Ukraine.He seemed like a rather pleasant chap, and there were a lot of stations trying to talk to him. Diplomacy through friendship and hobbies instead of hate and mistrust. - @Fred

Just had a chat with Sergey in Ukraine.

Same as before - Friends all over the world instead of enemies.

It's so much better.

I have just enjoyed a very nice chat with a Russian who lives in the Penza region, an area not that far from Ukraine.He seemed like a rather pleasant chap, and there were a lot of stations trying to talk to him. Diplomacy through friendship and hobbies instead of hate and mistrust. - @FredJust had a chat with Sergey in Ukraine. Same as before - Friends all over the world instead of enemies.It's so much better. - @Fred

I know 2 x Sergei right now.

One of them is a colleague who is a native Russian speaker who vehemently doesn't agree with Putin.

The other one is animated and appears in the adverts for CompareTheMeerkat.com

I trust both of those ones more than I do your supposed CQ amateur radio conversations with Putin apologists.

I trust both of those ones more than I do your supposed CQ amateur radio conversations with Putin apologists. - @fluffy2560

The last one was Ukraine, and please post your evidence that shows a Russian man you don't know supports Putin.

I do friendship, it's better than your stupid hate.

I'm watching Trump and Mandelson (UK ambassador) announcing their trade agreement.

I cannot see anyone buying US hormone injected beef.   

If it's got a US sticker on it, who in the UK is going to buy it?

Very short on details in the live streaming.  Just platitudes and Trump ass kissing.

It looks like it's going to be a damp squib.  And no approval by Congress.

I trust both of those ones more than I do your supposed CQ amateur radio conversations with Putin apologists. - @fluffy2560The last one was Ukraine, and please post your evidence that shows a Russian man you don't know supports Putin.I do friendship, it's better than your stupid hate. - @Fred

Unless your Sergey is prepared to speak out aloud against the war and remains in Russia, he's just a Putin apologist.  Remaining silent is tantamount to support. 

My Sergey is OK to share his opinions with me but he ain't stupid, he's not going to make himself a target and get Novichok'd or banged up in a gulag.

The one on the TV is busy and unavailable to answer your questions.

But...the usual.....

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me"

—Martin Niemöller

I'm moving on now.   Talk about something else because it's becoming boring .

Wow, new Pope elected but no idea who he is yet.

Not that I really care but be interested to know if he's progressive and not an old stick in the mud. 

I heard on the radio a Jerusalem cardinal was in with a chance but others said, no way as he was "only" 60 !!  Made me feel qualified.

The Filipino guy was a bit of a favourite.

And the results are in!

Robert Prevost, an American born in Chicago, also a naturalised national of Peru is ruling as Leo XIV.

The first American Pope.  It's an interesting choice.   It could be topical as he could be both a counter to Trump and an advocate for Latin Americans of the USA.   

We'll see in the coming days, weeks and months if it makes any difference to anyone anywhere.

Robert Prevost, an American born in Chicago, also a naturalised national of Peru is ruling as Leo XIV.
- @ffluffy2560

According to your statement about Russians and Americans, he should be kicked out because he isn't from a friendly nation.

Will you be writing to the Vatican to demand his removal and excommunication?

Robert Prevost, an American born in Chicago, also a naturalised national of Peru is ruling as Leo XIV. - @ffluffy2560According to your statement about Russians and Americans, he should be kicked out because he isn't from a friendly nation.Will you be writing to the Vatican to demand his removal and excommunication? - @Fred

I asked the moderators to ban you as you are ranting and conducting unwarranted attacks upon me.

Robert Prevost, an American born in Chicago, also a naturalised national of Peru is ruling as Leo XIV. - @ffluffy2560According to your statement about Russians and Americans, he should be kicked out because he isn't from a friendly nation.Will you be writing to the Vatican to demand his removal and excommunication? - @Fred
I asked the moderators to ban you as you are ranting and conducting unwarranted attacks upon me. - @fluffy2560

Perhaps I should request the same because you express hate based on nationality.

If you can't handle your bigotry, get professional help.

It was you who said Russians and Americans should be kicked out based solely on their nationality.

Robert Prevost, an American born in Chicago, also a naturalised national of Peru is ruling as Leo XIV. - @ffluffy2560According to your statement about Russians and Americans, he should be kicked out because he isn't from a friendly nation.Will you be writing to the Vatican to demand his removal and excommunication? - @Fred
I asked the moderators to ban you as you are ranting and conducting unwarranted attacks upon me. - @fluffy2560

Or he is high on drugs.

There are some vital ongoing European centred projects like the fusion based ITER which include the US and Russia. Both should be invited to leave as neither are our friends.  - @fluffy2560

There you are - Your bigotry and hate quoted.

Now, if opposing race hate is a crime, I'm guilty.

If hate based on xenophobia is a crime, you are.

Robert Prevost, an American born in Chicago, also a naturalised national of Peru is ruling as Leo XIV. - @ffluffy2560According to your statement about Russians and Americans, he should be kicked out because he isn't from a friendly nation.Will you be writing to the Vatican to demand his removal and excommunication? - @Fred
I asked the moderators to ban you as you are ranting and conducting unwarranted attacks upon me. - @fluffy2560
Perhaps I should request the same because you express hate based on nationality.
If you can't handle your bigotry, get professional help.
It was you who said Russians and Americans should be kicked out based solely on their nationality. - @Fred

Oh, like someone that keeps on telling people not to go to the UK because it's a shit hole. I wonder who that could be? They made a member so uncomfortable that they left the forum.

There are some vital ongoing European centred projects like the fusion based ITER which include the US and Russia. Both should be invited to leave as neither are our friends.  - @fluffy2560
There you are - Your bigotry and hate quoted.
Now, if opposing race hate is a crime, I'm guilty.
If hate based on xenophobia is a crime, you are. - @Fred

How about stick to the Indonesia forum, and you but out of this one, oh hang on, your forum is dead, because you have pissed off everyone.

Robert Prevost, an American born in Chicago, also a naturalised national of Peru is ruling as Leo XIV. - @ffluffy2560According to your statement about Russians and Americans, he should be kicked out because he isn't from a friendly nation.Will you be writing to the Vatican to demand his removal and excommunication? - @FredI asked the moderators to ban you as you are ranting and conducting unwarranted attacks upon me. - @fluffy2560Or he is high on drugs. - @SimCityAT

No, I don't think it's drugs.  Just trolling caused by some issue, possibly attention seeking.   It's a bit like hecklers of old.   Maybe even stalking. I could start doing an analysis on it to see the drivers.  While I asked Fred to be banned, I did not ask for his posts to be removed.  Others should see.

Anyway, I was hoping to get some useful analysis of current affairs from sage contributors.  I mean, contributors other than the Fred we currently have.  A different Fred could offer more useful insight.

BTW, this morning, I'm just reading about Trump's forthcoming, first Trump 2.0 state visit to Saudi.   It seems MBS is becoming rehabilitated after the murder of the journalist in the Saudi embassy in Turkey.  According to the correspondent (Economist), Saudi is somewhat of a different place now but very heavily dependent still on oil.  Be interesting to see what comes of Trump's visit and what they both hope to achieve with it.     

Robert Prevost, an American born in Chicago, also a naturalised national of Peru is ruling as Leo XIV. - @ffluffy2560According to your statement about Russians and Americans, he should be kicked out because he isn't from a friendly nation.Will you be writing to the Vatican to demand his removal and excommunication? - @Fred
I asked the moderators to ban you as you are ranting and conducting unwarranted attacks upon me. - @fluffy2560
Perhaps I should request the same because you express hate based on nationality.
If you can't handle your bigotry, get professional help.
It was you who said Russians and Americans should be kicked out based solely on their nationality.  - @Fred
Oh, like someone that keeps on telling people not to go to the UK because it's a shit hole. I wonder who that could be? They made a member so uncomfortable that they left the forum. - @SimCityAT

I saw this happen to a woman on another forum.

2 twits didn't like her posts so they attacked her personally until she snapped and called them naughty names in the hope she would get banned.

If you dislike my anti-racist posts, don't post racist rubbish.

? - @FredI asked the moderators to ban you as you are ranting and conducting unwarranted attacks upon me. - @fluffy2560Or he is high on drugs - @fluffy2560

No, I'm attacking your bigotry, not you.

Others are guilty of personal attacks - See the red text.

I won't be calling for your ban because love and forgiveness are better than hate and bigotry.

Here's an interesting one:

Two Hungarians detained over alleged spy plot in Ukraine

I've always thought Orban had designs on the Zakarpattia oblast and possibly even over Erdély (link in HU).   This has come up many times before.

Here's an interesting one:
Two Hungarians detained over alleged spy plot in Ukraine

I've always thought Orban had designs on the Zakarpattia oblast and possibly even over Erdély (link in HU). This has come up many times before. - @fluffy2560

Alleged - no evidence - no names - arrested by a government with a big interest in the propaganda value of arresting 'spies' from a country the EU want out of voting about Ukraine.

It's not even slightly interesting as the only published evidence is that the couple had mobile phones.

https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-det … u-reports/

The operation's objectives reportedly included gathering intelligence on military defenses, identifying vulnerabilities in its ground and air defense systems, and assessing local residents' socio-political views, particularly scenarios of public reaction if Hungarian troops entered the region.

Really? The best story they can come up with is TWO people were preparing the ground for a Hungarian invasion force.

I know 6 year old kids that can come up with a better story.

Update: Hungary expels two alleged spies from Hungary. 

(Note: Hungary Today is a government sympathetic media business/Fidesz mouthpiece).

The original BBC article now includes the update on Ukrainian embassy personnel expelled from Hungary minus the bias.  There is a video of the arrest but I haven't found it yet.

@fluffy2560

Well we know Viktor is a great pall of Putin, go figure.

@fluffy2560Well we know Viktor is a great pall of Putin, go figure. - @SimCityAT

Yes, indeed.  It's kind of interesting to eject the HU based UKR embassy personnel.  It's almost like an admission of guilt.  The arrested UKR persons in Ukraine are Ukrainian citizens so one would think this was a local matter.  By retaliating from HU, it's like saying, "it's a fair cop Gov, those are our people".   WTF?

Apparently the SBU (Ukraine Security Service) has published a video.  Here's a link to the video.  Use Auto-Translate. 

Mrs F says the conversations are trivial with no detail.  Obviously we don't see the evidence so no-one seeing the video can say it is damning as the spies appear to be quite dim-witted amateurs to me.

UK: BREAKING: “We will be closing the care worker visa for overseas recruitment” - Home Secretary Yvette Cooper

Don’t we have a desperate shortage of care workers?

UK: BREAKING: “We will be closing the care worker visa for overseas recruitment” - Home Secretary Yvette Cooper
Don’t we have a desperate shortage of care workers? - @SimCityAT

There's a lot to complain about back there in Blighty.   British - as usual - muck it up once more. 

It's all anti-immigration and anti-EU.   The spin is ridiculous. Makes you wonder which screws are loose in those politicians' heads.

In particular, I question the Indian-UK trade deal.  I think it'll be open to abuse and will affect British workers in technical jobs.   I fear for my relatives' jobs.

It won't be care workers coming over.   It'll be discounted skilled employees of very large Indian conglomerates on inter-company transfers.   That's money sucked out of the UK economy.   These conglomerates are not going to invest in training of UK personnel. 

I don't get why there would need to be an increase in immigration from India when the EU is right on the doorstep and arguably more culturally aligned.  UK should be trying to attract Hungarians and Poles etc back to the UK.

BTW, there's an article at Euronews about average monthly salaries in the EU.  Hungary is like 1408 EUR, Austria is 4542 EUR and the UK 4240 EUR.   

The UK > Indian deal is perfectly fine, it's the same deal that the UK has with 50 other countries.

They just don't pay national insurance, why should they? They have to pay surcharge for the NHS, they don't receive a pension,  they do pay tax. They are only coming over from an Indian company that has a company in the UK, so it isn't anyone coming from India.

The UK > Indian deal is perfectly fine, it's the same deal that the UK has with 50 other countries. They just don't pay national insurance, why should they? They have to pay surcharge for the NHS, they don't receive a pension, they do pay tax. They are only coming over from an Indian company that has a company in the UK, so it isn't anyone coming from India. - @SimCityAT

It's not the social security or tax issue.

They will be sending lower cost Indian employees on intra-company transfers.  That's lower paid Indian workers going to the UK subsidiary.  This will inevitably undercut UK workers.

It looks to me like a lower paid discounted worker coming in to work at projects which will exclude UK workers of the same or equivalent skills.   There's no way, large numbers of British people are going to India to work under the supposed reciprocal agreement.  That's just fiction.

It's normal in an international project to specify, say,  nominally at least 30% to 50% of the workforce to be locals (i.e. British workers).  I've seen this a lot and usually without enforcement, it's just not observed. 

I don't know the details (unfortunately) of the limits they've inserted into this kind of work.    I doubt they've included such constraints.   If they'd limited it to say, 10000 people a year for no more than 1 year, then maybe it'd be acceptable if it was matched with significant skills transfer (to UK workers).  Or one for one - one in India, one in the UK.   That's a stretch.

It's too late for me as my working life is just about over but I have close relatives in technical jobs in the UK and they will end up out of a job.

The UK > Indian deal is perfectly fine, it's the same deal that the UK has with 50 other countries. They just don't pay national insurance, why should they? They have to pay surcharge for the NHS, they don't receive a pension, they do pay tax. They are only coming over from an Indian company that has a company in the UK, so it isn't anyone coming from India.  - @SimCityAT
It's not the social security or tax issue.
They will be sending lower cost Indian employees on intra-company transfers. That's lower paid Indian workers going to the UK subsidiary. This will inevitably undercut UK workers.

It looks to me like a lower paid discounted worker coming in to work at projects which will exclude UK workers of the same or equivalent skills. There's no way, large numbers of British people are going to India to work under the supposed reciprocal agreement. That's just fiction.

It's normal in an international project to specify, say, nominally at least 30% to 50% of the workforce to be locals (i.e. British workers). I've seen this a lot and usually without enforcement, it's just not observed.

I don't know the details (unfortunately) of the limits they've inserted into this kind of work.  I doubt they've included such constraints. If they'd limited it to say, 10000 people a year for no more than 1 year, then maybe it'd be acceptable if it was matched with significant skills transfer (to UK workers). Or one for one - one in India, one in the UK.

It's too late for me as my working life is just about over but I have close relatives in technical jobs in the UK and they will end up out of a job. - @fluffy2560

No it won't, just do the research. It won't undercut anyone. The same rules apply for UK citizens going to India. There is only a handful of companies anyway. So it won't be a big deal at all.

The media has fallen right into Reforms bullshit and not even bothered to look it up. The Mail, Telegraph even LBC have been the worse.

No it won't, just do the research. It won't undercut anyone. The same rules apply for UK citizens going to India. There is only a handful of companies anyway. So it won't be a big deal at all.
The media has fallen right into Reforms bullshit and not even bothered to look it up. The Mail, Telegraph even LBC have been the worse. - @SimCityAT

I'm highly suspicious. 

I was working temporarily in a very well known UK (but US owned) financial institution and they outsourced a large chunk of their IT to an Indian company.  It wasn't received well by the locals.  The local workers were actually hostile and uncooperative to the new arrangements.   It wasn't communicated and the Indian workers just turned up suddenly demanding access.  I wasn't an employee of the financial institution but part of an external project team that operated there.  I determined we'd have to discuss cooperation with the Indian company as we had no responsibility to work with them contractually.   

I haven't seen any discussion online except here or heard anything about it on LBC other than the national insurance issue.  That's not really my problem with it, it's that salary undercutting to the detriment of the UK workers which I'm concerned about.   

The workers "swap" arrangements is just BS.  The average worker in the UK is not going to go to India to work in potentially worse conditions.  Just getting an Indian visa is a nightmare. I've looked at it for tourism and I decided not to bother.

On the US "trade deal",  we're even not seeing the same kind of discussion.  I personally favour a Commonwealth approach on worker "swaps". 

@fluffy2560

We don't factories in the UK making shoes and clothes they are all in india, so they will not be sending low skilled workers over to the UK, these will be executives to deal with orders etc...

We have the same deal, with all EU countries, America, Australia, Japan, South Korea.....

@fluffy2560We don't factories in the UK making shoes and clothes they are all in india, so they will not be sending low skilled workers over to the UK, these will be executives to deal with orders etc... We have the same deal, with all EU countries, America, Australia, Japan, South Korea..... - @SimCityAT

I'm not talking about clothing manufacturers' low skilled workers etc.

I'm taking about lower costs overall - be it for executives or technical specialists.   

For example, an IT expert or engineer with 10 years experience might cost 30% to 50% less in the UK when sent from India.  That means that Indian company can undercut UK based businesses bidding for the same work.  It's an unfair disadvantage that the UK has just enabled.

I am not sure the same deal exists for the countries listed.  US has limits on foreign workers sent on transfers for sure.   

The idea of Scotch whiskey being a £2B substitute for selling out UK workers looks fanciful.  It's a single sector and why does that need special attention?  The US "trade deal" looks like BS as well - that's political.

As you know, I'm in no way a Reform supporter but I wonder what Labour are doing with this.   

There's an EU-UK conference very soon (like next week perhaps?) so we'll see if there's a reset there on worker movement. I don't like the age restriction the UK is discussing on work visas.   

Most countries could make all their own products if they so wanted to.

I visited Hungary for the first time in 1978.

They made everything but cars, could of done that as well if they did not get them from east Germany.

My husband worked in his youth at Csepal Island.

One end of the tracks that ran through the Island brought in raw materials, the other end brought out finished products.

Train parts, bus parts, bicycles, sewing machines, motorbikes etc.

It was very organized.

Stores had everything, perhaps not the latest fashions from Italy but they made clothing as well;

My SIL was the head of a pattern making factory where they produced clothing for everyone.

The stores had say 2 types of toothpaste and only a handful of different shampoos and soaps but how much does anyone really need?

If a small country like Hungary can do it, then any country can if they want to.

@Marilyn Tassy

They could make a few more products, but not everything, even if they did make everything the consumer wouldn't buy it because it would be just to expensive.

In the Victorian times clothes, shoes were made in the UK, Steel was another industry. But back then it was more difficult to transport things, ships weren't designed for it, there was no aircraft.

Now things are shipped and flown in, in a matter of days not months.

This is another factor that Trump doesn't seem to understand. Buy everything in America. That's all very well, but it doesn't have the steel and aluminium plants, and even if it did, they would still need to rely on outside important.

Also there aren't people trained to make a lot of the products, that takes time and money to train up, it also doesn't have the infrastructure in place. Lastly it will cost a lot more to make and that will be past on to the customer. That's the reason why the iPhone isn't made in America.

Most countries could make all their own products if they so wanted to.
I visited Hungary for the first time in 1978.
They made everything but cars, could of done that as well if they did not get them from east Germany.
My husband worked in his youth at Csepal Island.
One end of the tracks that ran through the Island brought in raw materials, the other end brought out finished products.
Train parts, bus parts, bicycles, sewing machines, motorbikes etc.
It was very organized.
Stores had everything, perhaps not the latest fashions from Italy but they made clothing as well;
My SIL was the head of a pattern making factory where they produced clothing for everyone.
The stores had say 2 types of toothpaste and only a handful of different shampoos and soaps but how much does anyone really need?
If a small country like Hungary can do it, then any country can if they want to. - @Marilyn Tassy

The UK can, but not at the same price.

The unions became extremely powerful to the point they firced inflation by wage rises, and quality went to the dogs because it was impossible to sack anyone.

The unions forced strikes for every daft reason you can think of, and some no sane person would think of as any reason,  so productivity and profitability died like fly under an elephant's boot.

That marxist idiocy made UK products impossible to sell worldwide, and even in the UK.

In fairness, the idiotic unions weren't totally to blame, but it could be argued that their gross stupidity contributed to the lack of innovation. After all, nobody would want to invest in any counrty with such a lousy attitude.

Manufacturing costs were simply too high, so pretty much all UK manufacturing was lost to overseas competition.

India, China, Bangladesh, and pretty much every other country outside the EU and US can beat the UK on price and quality.

Most countries could make all their own products if they so wanted to.
I visited Hungary for the first time in 1978.
They made everything but cars, could of done that as well if they did not get them from east Germany.
My husband worked in his youth at Csepel Island.
One end of the tracks that ran through the Island brought in raw materials, the other end brought out finished products.
Train parts, bus parts, bicycles, sewing machines, motorbikes etc.
It was very organized.
Stores had everything, perhaps not the latest fashions from Italy but they made clothing as well;
My SIL was the head of a pattern making factory where they produced clothing for everyone.
The stores had say 2 types of toothpaste and only a handful of different shampoos and soaps but how much does anyone really need?
If a small country like Hungary can do it, then any country can if they want to. - @Marilyn Tassy

I remember looking into Csepel Island bicycle factory and why it was in decline.   It was just undercut by cheap imports.   The Commie countries were in COMECON which was their equivalent of the EU.  It essentially segmented up production so no one country had the ability to make a complete thing.  So the East Germans made their unrecycleable Trabbie cars and say, Romania made the rubber tyres.  It forced them into specialisations.   Hungary had its Ikarus buses and the Czechs had their Skoda cars.  Ikarus died a death but Skoda was actually pretty good at engineering and luckily was taken over by VW.  Big success.

It wasn't that organised.  The big plans were to produce something like say pumps.  So the quota was filled, the pumps were shipped and everyone at the pump factory celebrated.  And the politburo cheered it on.  However, the pumps just piled up in a foreign warehouse and were "off the books".  They had to sell them at a huge loss to clear the warehouse space which was overflowing with unwanted pumps.  It was lunacy.  I heard this directly from a US based pump salesman who I used to work with.

Apparently Trump favours the Communist style of availability.   Kids can only have 2 dolls and 5 pencils.  Empty shelves await - apparently.  It'll be interesting to see how the US-China talks proceed.  Trump is living in cloud cuckoo land over his 80% tariff offer.  Not a chance China will agree to that.  They don't have to agree.  They have more than sufficient financial clout over Trump and the rest of his clown show.

UK: BREAKING: “We will be closing the care worker visa for overseas recruitment” - Home Secretary Yvette Cooper
Don’t we have a desperate shortage of care workers? - @SimCityAT

Migrants will also need to be qualified to graduate level get a visa to work in the UK under new plans to be unveiled on Monday.

UK: BREAKING: “We will be closing the care worker visa for overseas recruitment” - Home Secretary Yvette Cooper
Don’t we have a desperate shortage of care workers? - @SimCityAT
Migrants will also need to be qualified to graduate level get a visa to work in the UK under new plans to be unveiled on Monday.
- @SimCityAT

I heard a discussion that the language skills had to be B2.   That's really hard to reach. 

Even my own daughter could not get past B2 English and she's effectively a native speaker.   I think she  was 16 when she got that. It's university level.  She also reached B2 Spanish which would be perhaps A level.   Native speakers are generally B1 I believe.

I think they were also talking about B2 for naturalisation in the UK.  That's a massive hill to climb.  I hope that doesn't become an EU standard.

I don't know who is going to be working in the care sector there.  The ones who looked after my Dad were Filipino (lead nurse), Polish, Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan.  I think we saw one British person.