Sarawak My Second Home Program

As some of you might be aware...I've been needling and nudging the CM, Ministry of Tourism, and Immigration to do some things to make the Sarawak M2H more efficient, better known, and more attractive to applicants. And also to create a structure that will give more of the money brought in by recipients of the visa to benefit Sarawakians.

Well on Friday something finally happened. The Minister of Local Development and Housing (after being nudged by SHEDA...the realtor/developer/property managers group) held a major confab (a "laboratory") to figure out how to improve the program. 19 different ministries, agencies or groups attended!

The problem is that not one applicant or recipient of the Sarawak M2H was there. I don't know if anyone else was invited but I wasn't. So how does one have a "laboratory" without the material being "studied" being in the experiment...sort of like making pronouncements about  mice running through the maze without having the mice there. In fact, maybe putting cats in the labyrinth instead.

So this weekend I rushed together a portfolio giving multiple points about how to improve the program, reduce paperwork, terminate sponsorships (or shift that role to the government), improve the Fixed Deposit procedure, Publicity, etc. etc. all from the perspective of the mice (the applicant).

I put a pretty photo of sunset over the Sarawak River on the cover.

Then went over on Monday morning in  the heat  (initially went to the wrong office building) and arrived only to discover and the security pondok that I had forgotten my passport. "Sorry can't go in". "Sorry we don't deliver materials from the gate to the offices". "Please don't ask people going to see Dr. Sim to deliver your envelope". I decided to wait it out and eventually "Secor" called up to the office and a staff-person came down to get the portfolio.

Here are two articles on the "Laboratory". One might find that even the Minister is really not aware of some of the "actual" requirements of the program that discourages application.

https://www.newsarawaktribune.com.my/my … nt-dr-sim/https://www.theborneopost.com/2019/05/1 … g-up-mm2h/

Can't imagine why they didn't invite the nudger who has sent about a dozen emails over the last year to various people?

@cinnamonape Many thanks for taking the trouble to compose and deliver your portfolio - I hope the powers that be take notice.

Hi,
if I'm 36 years old, married, but without children
Can i ask for MM2H Sarawak ?

lyvio974 wrote:

Hi,
if I'm 36 years old, married, but without children
Can i ask for MM2H Sarawak ?

Need to be 50+

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=761316

Thanks Gravitas for your reply.

On their official website :
https://www.sarawak.gov.my/web/home/art … w/221/279/
it is writting

"Applicants who are 30 years old and above may apply if there is evidence that they have children pursuing further education or undergoing long term medical treatment in Sarawak."

But i have not yet children

Yes, if you had children enrolled in school there you could apply under 50 years of age.

But you don't...you are thus ineligible.

There are some changes coming, it seems, to increase the number of applicants and reduce the paperwork. But whether this will include allowing applicants under 50 (or perhaps those under 50 that buy property- or have a higher fixed deposit - the latter as on Peninsular Malaysia), isn't clear.

In terms of certifying (CTC) documents for S-MM2H, could I do at home (as can be done for MM2H) or must I do in Kuching?

I think some documents can be certified abroad. Marriage certificates, birth certificates, bank statements, pension warrants, and possibly the particulars page of the passport. But there are many documents that must and can be certified only in Sarawak. The Health approval document, the FD document, the sponsors MYKAD(ID card), etc. all must be certified IN Sarawak.   Depending upon which version of the SM2H you are applying under some of the above documents are required and others unnecessary.

Thank you, cinnamonape. Now, our passports are valid for 20 months. If our applications are approved and we get S-MM2H visa, then obviously we need to apply for visa renewal just after one  year. Do we need again to get a sponsor for renewal?

You do not apply for a renewal, you just apply to get your visa transferred.
That requires old and new passports and some ringgit I believe.

Clouded Leopard is correct.  It's a visa (5 year validity, renewable) TRANSFER. So the sponsor would stay the same throughout that term. Within six months of the visa expiring you'd submit your new passports to Immigration (along with the Extension Application Form; a New Health Check-up Report; and either a Statement from the bank that the FD meets the minimum standard (RM60,000) OR continuing proof of PENSION/Outside Income.

https://mtacys.sarawak.gov.my/upload/fi … ENEWAL.pdf

I've heard that Sarawak does not require a sponsor upon renewal.  There is certainly no rigamarole documentation regarding that required for the next 5 year extension.

Hello Guys,

my name is Robert and I have read this thread from page 1 up to the last one, message by message.

I am for almost one year in Malaysia. I am a German citizen and all the time on three months Social Pass here. So I reentered Malaysia for a few times already, always without issues, but I guess that soon things become tight for me.

I will turn 50 soon. I do not have the necessary funds to apply for the normal MM2H program since I have neither pension to expect nor really high amounts of savings.

The point is, that I have an income from abroad due to licensing revenues and profits from trading with cryptocurrencies. I have a good living from it and there are no risks that this would change soon. The only headache I have is, how to provide proper documentation about it. If I need money for daily needs or fixed payments, I simply transfer the needed amount from a cryptocurrency exchange to my German bank account and take money in Malaysia from an ATM. But those transfers are not in a regular manner, just on demand.

Therefore I would like to ask:

What would be the easiest way to prove my income and financial status for the S-MM2H application? There is absolutely no problem to meet the criteria of minimum 10K RM monthly, practically. But how to prove it in a way that it would be accepted by the immigration office?

What kind of paperwork would be accepted? Or in what way could I route my "income" in the next three months so that it would be accepted as proper proof of income for that program?

Thank you very much in advance,

Robert

Robert Eem wrote:

I will turn 50 soon. I do not have the necessary funds to apply for the normal MM2H program since I have neither pension to expect nor really high amounts of savings."

Well that's the crux. For the Peninsula MM2H you need to establish a Fixed Deposit, which you cannot. Or at least it seems that you don't want to transfer enough of your cryptocurrency into MYR to make such a deposit.

So we can eliminate the Peninsular MM2H as an option. So that leaves Sarawak.

Robert Eem wrote:

The point is, that I have an income from abroad due to licensing revenues and profits from trading with cryptocurrencies. I have a good living from it and there are no risks that this would change soon. The only headache I have is, how to provide proper documentation about it. If I need money for daily needs or fixed payments, I simply transfer the needed amount from a cryptocurrency exchange to my German bank account and take money in Malaysia from an ATM. But those transfers are not in a regular manner, just on demand.

So you don't actually have a provable bank account that indicates regular income? The Sarawak MM2H Requirement is clear. "Applicants must show proof of monthly off shore income /pension funds"

Robert Eem wrote:

What would be the easiest way to prove my income and financial status for the S-MM2H application? There is absolutely no problem to meet the criteria of minimum 10K RM monthly, practically. But how to prove it in a way that it would be accepted by the immigration office? What kind of paperwork would be accepted? Or in what way could I route my "income" in the next three months so that it would be accepted as proper proof of income for that program?

I don't think the Ministry of Tourism or Ministry of Immigration like "speculative" and fluctuating sources of income. That's why they want income sources based upon salary or pension (guaranteed), although I have have a few people have shown supplementary sources like savings accounts or real estate rental incomes. But these are generally supplementary.

They don't want someone who might become wards of the state if the income source collapses or fails. In addition they want someone who will be investing a substantial amount of foreign income into the country.

The more irregular or speculative the income might be the more evidence they may want that it is sufficient and has  been regular. They may ask for more than three months of income data into the bank account above RM10000/month coming into the account. In addition they may want a higher level of money IN the savings account.

https://mtacys.sarawak.gov.my/page-0-0- … n-FAQ.html

Sarawak MM2H wrote:

Q2: What do you recommend to improve my chances of approval?

A2: While you are required to place a fixed deposit and/or show proof of income, these are only the minimum requirements. In order to receive approval, you must show that you have a strong financial background by providing asset statements, bank deposit statements and proof of any additional income that you derive beyond the minimum required amounts. In other words, simply having RM150,000 in the bank and RM10,000 per month in income will not get approval. Furthermore, we recommend you apply with family members when possible.

The simplest solution would be to withdraw = RM150,000* (RM100,000 for single applicants) from your cryptocurrency account, place in your German bank account, and apply via the FD route.
(~$36,600 or ~$24,400).  The FD while "fixed" accrues interest at about 4%/annum...and you can withdraw part of it for certain  expenses (vehicle purchase, property purchase, child's educational expense, health costs). There is currently a minimum deposit of RM60,000 (@ $15,000) that must be maintained after all withdrawals.

I'm part of an effort to increase the amount of withdrawal opportunities (local purchases of locally produced goods or services within Sarawak, including one year of local rent- not just property purchase) as well as lower the base amount required in the FD. But those changes may be down the road.

Hi cinnamonape, the information on https://mtacys.sarawak.gov.my/page-0-0- … n-FAQ.html seems quite new to me in the perspective of Sarawak M2H,  as the FAQ is a mixture of both SM2H and MM2H requirements. Is it really new and what is it dated? Many thanks.

With regard to Robert's question I would firstly ask are you aware of the Sarawak requirement that your sponsor is a Sarawak person or permanent resident?

If you do not know anyone who meets that requirement then your financial circumstances are immaterial.

i think it is actually quite old (at least 2015) as it still maintains the incorrect information about the visa length for Sarawak MM2H. In fact, I'm wondering if the took it from the FAQ of an agent site or off the MM2H site. The wording (and questions) are identical.

For example:  whoever wrote it doesn't realize that the Student Pass is a lot more restrictive, and a lot more hassle, than the "Allowed To Study" endorsement that is placed opposite the MM2H Visa. For MM2H, at least on the peninsula, the Student Pass/Visa is only required for Tertiary (i.e. College and University) Students. All MM2H dependents under 18 wanting to study at the Pre-School, Primary or Secondary level only require the "Allowed To Study" stamp, which is the same as for those on Employment Visas or PR.

Still I think that it is within the thinking of the Ministries of Immigration that the financial requirements they state are a "minimum" and that they can ask for more. This may seem arbitrary, and one can appeal, but they do have that power. This allows them to examine whether they believe the accounts are legitimate, may be insecure, or may actually be "illiquid", etc. It's one of the intangibles that exists when dealing with bureaucrats...some are more flexible, see the obvious or the big picture (i.e. can this person support themselves and their family for 5 years) or are sticklers for regulations that they themselves may not understand or read properly.

Clouded Leopard wrote:

With regard to Robert's question I would firstly ask are you aware of the Sarawak requirement that your sponsor is a Sarawak person or permanent resident?

If you do not know anyone who meets that requirement then your financial circumstances are immaterial.

True that...
As for the licensing revenue that likely comes through some sort of "over-ground" company. It then goes to the bank. So bank receipts would show that as a fairly regular source of income. If one set up a way station that might be even better "R.Eem Artistic Enterprises or something...before the bank. Technically you are self employed.

The BitCoin trading is too variable, but perhaps you have consistently shifted about the same amount/month from the account and reinvested the rest? How is that money transferred to your account? Does it come from some named sourcing agency. How cryptocurrency works and converted to cash is all mysterious to me...and likely will be to any Immigration official who will wonder if it is being used for money laundering. Crypto still, justifiably in some cases, has that aura of (sex, drugs, without the rock-and-roll...replaced with gun running) You could withdraw and then submit to REem Enterprises for several months. Maybe channel that too through "REem Enterprises" into your bank.

IF you have, or intend to get a Sarawakian sponsor, you might start that going now, so that you have a regular income from "REem Enterprises".  Of course, there are registration and tax issues you may face back home.

cinnamonape wrote:

You could withdraw and then submit to REem Enterprises for several months. Maybe channel that too through "REem Enterprises" into your bank.

IF you have or intend to get a Sarawakian sponsor, you might start that going now, so that you have a regular income from "REem Enterprises".  Of course, there are registration and tax issues you may face back home.

We must understand cryptocurrencies simple like a new kind of currency nowadays. My license revenues (it is about an automated trading algorithm) is paid by a company that is in the cryptocurrency business, therefore it is common that it's paid in cryptocurrency as well. The exchange in "real money" is my duty.

I can "streamline" those payments to my bank german account and provide my license 10years contract with the company. It will be obvious that these payments have certain regularity.

But will be three months proof in the bank account enough? And I am with an online bank, how to provide stamped account statements? What for paperwork expectations from the immigration department do I have to expect in my case according to your opinion?

You've totally lost me. So imagine what would be the effect on someone who has even less conception of what you are talking about. They understand "real money". For them cryptocurrencies are like monopoly money, pork belly shares, or kryptonite futures. Actually worse...

To some degree perhaps the less said about cryptocurrency the better - you are dealing with people in Immigration, Customs and Home Affairs that crack down on scammers, gamblers, and others that use cryptocurrencies as a means of transaction concealment.

How much "real money" you have coming  into the bank and its own reputation may be significant.

As noted above three months record of "the most recent" bank accounts is the "minimum". Given your unusual circumstances I'd add one or two more. One should be able to get your statements notarized and stamped at a Notary Public. You might also have on hand your account data for the last year just in case.

You might provide a conversion table of Euros to Ringgit for their convenience.

Do you have a sponsor?

Fortunately, I have good contact with people in Kuching. I guess the sponsorship will not be an issue.

And I understand that I better keep the entire cryptocurrency part private. Real money counts, whatever the transfer method is but lands in a bank account at the end.

What for a purpose has the Notary part? How can this help me to prove that my documents are legit and from my German bank?

Unless you go the Fixed Deposit route the bank account documents will need to be certified. In the US an Malaysia that means confirmed as authentic by a notary public...I.e. notarized. I now realize that Notary may mean something different in Germany.

There should be an embossed seal document from some official that states that they are certified as authentic. Maybe the bank itself can do this?

This is a basic matter and important not for me only I guess.

Who certifies this? A Notary Public in the country of issuance of the documents? Or a Notary Public in Malaysia? Or any, but Notary Public?

Do I have to travel for this or can I do this simply in Malaysia with a Notary Public who is ready to do so?

Generally one can obtain official bank deposit information on line or from the physical bank. If the bank has a color letterhead download the account information using a color, high quality, printer on  good paper. Generally the notarization should be done in the home country.

If one cannot do this you may require a local notary in Malaysia, or a solicitor who will make you take an oath as to the authenticity of the submitted documents. A local notary will give you advice about what they can, and cannot do. Generally legal offices will have their own notary, as well as an attorney/solicitor. Just look at the signboard.

Since each month is a separate record/document you likely will have to pay a separate fee for each certification. If an oath is required it should only be a single fee for all the appended copies of the documents.

All copies must be certified TRUE COPIES OF ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS by EMBASSY / HIGH COMMISSION / NOTARY PUBLIC / GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL / SOLICITOR / ADVOCATE / AUDITOR FROM ORIGIN COUNTRY.

One more point, the original copy must be translated into English (or Bahasa Malay).

Hi guys
Wonder if you can help me we are a English family we have been in Penang since November and are wanting to stay living in Malaysia I heard about the mmh2 program in sarwark want some help how to apply please. There is my self 54 my husband 52 and we have custody of our grandchildren   My daughter is also with us she 34 and 2 children we are planing on putting the children into school in September 2019 but this will only give 2 student visa so we than heard about the sarwark mmh2  we need help please thank you in advance for any help

You can certainly apply as a couple as you are over 50. Your adopted grandchildren can come in as your dependants.

Your daughter can qualify, too, if she has two children (I'm a bit confused, as these the same children that you are guardians of?). But as she is over 21 she cannot come in on your visa. She will have to enroll her children in school in  order to qualify.

Both the main applicant (over 50) and your daughter would need a local Sarawakian sponsor.

I recently have been dealing with an applicant with a child and need to mention this potential snag. Unlike the Peninsular program where non-tertiary students are not required to apply for a students visa (they get a "permitted to study" endorsement in their passport opposite the MM2H visa) in Sarawak they apparently require Student Visas.

Daughter would have to enroll her kids in school under a student visa and then apply for a MM2H visa showing sufficiency of income (RM7000/month), or place a Fixed Deposit of RM100K (I assume she is single). She also has to show the enrollment papers and that she has paid tuition. I know this sounds backwards...but it's the rule for those under 50.

As to your dependents they will still need to apply for Student Visas. For a married couple you will have to either show regular guaranteed income or pension of RM10,000 OR place a Fixed Deposit of RM150,000.

After the first year of enrollment one can take out of the Fixed Account (upon application) tuition. That  can occur for several years but the fixed account cannot drop below RM60,000.

https://mtacys.sarawak.gov.my/page-0-17 … -MM2H.htmlhttps://www.sarawak.gov.my/web/home/art … w/221/279/

There are several issues with the procedures, primarily since those under 50 can only apply for an MM2H visa if their children are enrolled/accepted in school...but the schools require parents/guardians to have a visa in order to apply. Catch-22.

These are the current rules...but there may soon be some adjustments, hopefully for the better...making less paperwork and and easier for applicants.

Hi
Thank you for your reply the adopted children are different to my daughters to can my daughter apply to put our children into school in Penang or does it have to be Sarwark school I  am so grateful for your help being  trying to read up on it all but not much advise what to do we will be applying under the monthly income as don't want to sell our house in Uk we rent it out gives us another income as well
Thank you so much for your reply I am driving myself mad trying to get it done right  thank you Karon

For her to apply under the Sarawak MM2H her children must be enrolled in a Sarawak school, not a Peninsula school.

In most respects the regulations for Sarawak (requiring Student visas for all students regardless of grade level) are more onerous than the MM2H. In fact, the Under 50 exception is next to an impossibility as one requires a Visa to enroll the student in school, but also one must have a student ALREADY enrolled in school for a 30-50 year old to receive an MM2H Visa.

There is something called a Guardian Visa but I don't know much about that.

As to your own dependents I am not sure if they could apply to a Peninsular school or not.  You may certainly LIVE on the Peninsula, but will Federal Immigration give them a "Permission to Study" stamp if you came in with a Sarawak issued MM2H visa? They might refer you to the Kuching office who would simply say "apply for a student visa".

It's a real mess, to be quite honest about the situation. Catch 22's galore and little no clear written explanation about what the rules are and what the rationales are behind them.

I would honestly say that you will need a good YEAR to sort through this. Getting this all done by September 2019 is going to be next to impossible. That's only 3 months away. I have PM'd you.

I've set up a Sarawak My Second Home Facebook Site/Group that contains information about the Current Program Requirements and some other topics interesting to applicants or potential applicants.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Sarawak-My- … e_internalhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/168068210798651/

Hi Cinnamonape

Thank you for the posts, I had a good read through, I need to know being over 50 and earning over RM10K nett salary - not pension, can I apply for Sarawak M2H based on offshore salaried earnings

Thanks

Sarawak does allow this, though they will want to know that the sources of income are consistent and reliable. For Sarawak it is "income" not assets that is important.

RM7000 for Singles/RM10,000 for couples

For those that can't meet the income limit, then they can place the Fixed Deposit (RM 100,000 for single, RM150,000 for couples).

Thanks

Thank you for that great overview of your experience!

Clouded Leopard wrote:

The immigration official puts your passport through a reader and the database will flag that you have (or had) a MM2H/Employment/whatever pass and your entry/exit history. They will then visually check the pass, I have two expired West Malaysia passes in addition to my shiny new Sarawak MM2H in my current passport which will slow them down on this.
...

Landed at Kuala Lumpur and got the correct stamp, valid until 2024.
When I landed in Kuching I was initially stamped in for ninety days.
It took two attempts to convince them to recheck that I had a Sarawak MM2H pass and get the correct stamp.

Always check your passport is stamp correctly

I always open my page to the Sarawak MM2H visa page and say "I'm on the KUCHING SARAWAK MM2H program". A properly trained officer will know that is a Multi-Entry pass and the date will be applied accordingly. Of course a poorly trained or distracted officer may see only the MM2H pass and think it is peninsular.

"Sarawak's Best Kept Secret- Malaysia My Second Home" by Edgar Ong

https://www.theborneopost.com/2019/08/2 … DD-9s_mXOE

Hi cinnamonape,

You said -
"Once approved you have up to six months to fulfill the fixed deposit requirement (if you take that option) and get your visa"

It seems to imply that you don't have to set up the FD before applying. Only after the initial approval then you can start the FD. Is that right?

Another question -
British state pension and private pension annuity do not issue monthly pay slips, would annual statements be sufficient?

czy wrote:

Hi cinnamonape,

You said -
"Once approved you have up to six months to fulfill the fixed deposit requirement (if you take that option) and get your visa"

It seems to imply that you don't have to set up the FD before applying. Only after the initial approval then you can start the FD. Is that right?

Another question -
British state pension and private pension annuity do not issue monthly pay slips, would annual statements be sufficient?

If relying upon FD rather than income for Sarawak MM2H, said FD has to be in place before submitting the application. I am 100% certain of that fact, having done it myself this year. With Peninsular MM2H the FD is done after approval.

After you receive the letter informing you of approval, you have three months to get the MM2H stamp in your passport (unlike the Peninsula, which gives you six months to do it).

Unfortunately the differences in the rules and procedures between the Sarawak and Peninsular schemes cause a lot of confusion.

Thanks Cobolin

Hi Cobolin
In Sarawak can you open a bank account without proper immigration status?

In peninsula Malaysia, you cant, hence the MM2H immigration gives you a letter addressed to a bank authorising them to open a bank account