Naturalisation and citizenship in Indonesia

ssangel wrote:

But otherwise people go there either because of money, love or culture (Bali takes in most of these).

Now if Bali were a country by herself, I'm sure many would.

The rest of Indonesia has everything you mentioned. I know several people who have taken citizenship, mostly now operating businesses and doing very nicely for themselves.

Supadave wrote:

I'm pretty sure any honest comments on this particular blog may find the author in hot water with the authorities. As previously commented, the issue is sensitive and information difficult to obtain- does one ask why?

The issue stems from colonialism, something that's still strong in this country's collective memory.
Indonesia isn't hostile to naturalisation, just careful.

narilulla wrote:

Also, your gentle view of Indonesian peculiarities is always a source of amusement and worthy of introspection by all authorities with a "less than humble" view of themselves. Thank you

I fell in love with Indonesia pretty quickly. I was used to a place where drugs were a massive problem and you looked out of your window every morning to check your car was still there and intact.
The local potheads would smash windows and steal the stereos for their smoking money - pretty bloody terrible.
I didn't see any graffiti for the first three years I was here and crime in my host area was almost nothing. I recall the local intel copper looking seriously depressed one day on reviewing the crime figures and finding out there had been over 20 crimes in the area that month. He was asking what Indonesia was coming to with so much crime.
I had to explain why I laughed but in my old dump of a place the crimes hit 20 or more 5 minutes after midnight every day.
Jakarta and the surrounding area has a far greater problem but it's nothing when compared to 'home'.
The woman next door to my mum had three kids, no marriages and she knew who two of the fathers were. Now add the wild kids from such people wandering around doing as they liked and you have an environment I didn't much like.
There's hardly any of that rubbish here and I like it that way.

I'd being looking through some serious rose coloured bit of glass if I claimed Indonesia didn't have issues but this place wins by a mile when compared to the UK.

narilulla wrote:

"I had to explain why I laughed but in my old dump of a place the crimes hit 20 or more 5 minutes after midnight every day."

really funny, and maybe little unbelievable?

Neither funny nor unbelievable - sadly.

South Yorkshire police issue crime numbers starting with the date then the number of the reported crime in order.
If you call at 9 in the morning the number will easily be in the hundreds.


rubbish, isn't it?

chrisandarian wrote:

Hello Fred

For  KITAP also its the same process?? I am working on KITAS from last two years and KITAS will be renew again for 1 yr, I have no intention of marriage anytime soon, so is the same 5 Year rule apply for KITAP ?? I understand once KITAP issued for next 5 yrs we are free from KITAS annual renewal..

That process is entirely separate from naturalisation save the KITAP is a step towards it.
Working and marriage are treated in different ways but as I have never formally worked or held a work permit I'm unaware of the rules covering a KITAP for work.
Luke might possibly be able to assist but that's for another thread.

Big McC wrote:

Obstructive is obstructive regardless of reason.

However, making a successful application is impossible.

Tell the truth for a change and be damned

I'm a tad confused but you seem to be talking about citizenship applications.
If you are, you're incorrect as I know it can be done and has been done by people I know personally so I know I'm 100% accurate on this issue.

The process is deliberately hard but not obstructive as such, it's just they want to make sure the people they allow the privilege of citizenship to are going to be good citizens. They accept applications from anyone that meets a pretty simple set of requirements but those people have to prove they have good reasons to apply and are willing to work for the prize. No one rips up applications, hides them in a drawer for 5 years, deliberately loses them or attacks you with vicious dogs when you walk into the offices to make an application.
There are limitations but all are perfectly fair and reasonable.

Big McC wrote:

What are the government afraid of ? Haven't worked that one out yet.

Read up on Indonesia's history as a Dutch (and British) colony and the independence struggle, then take a peek at post 1945 politics along with the issues of today. You might also like to review UUD 1945 and proklamasi.

A few hours of reading will give you a pretty fair idea of what's what.

Big McC wrote:

and I also think my point is being missed. Yes, I agree, nationalism is a good thing. I also think that there has to be very good reasons why Indonesia adopts the current policy. But.... If something is black then call it black. Dont deny by calling it something else and providing reasons for not calling it black. The world sees it as black so just take ownership and accept the fact.

That is incorrect as there is no obstruction.
The basic rules are very clear:

5 years continuous living in Indonesia or 10 years on and off but holding valid visas all the time
No criminal record where the punishment could be 1 year or more in prison
Mentally and physically reasonable
A level of Indonesian leaving you able to conduct a fairly complex conversation and knowing set pieces.

It's easier for those married to an Indonesian but not impossible for those who are not but their applications take longer for a variety of reasons.

At no point is the process obstructed by anyone but you have to meet the requirements.
If you want to call those obstructive, you have to say the same for pretty much every other country in the world as they all have requirements to meet.

abdulkhalil wrote:

No, Expat.com is nothing to do with any government. It is a privately owned business based in the Indian ocean with a dozen or so staff .

True.

abdulkhalil wrote:

several "experts" or volunteer members in various countries, ordinary people like you and I, but who have been around for quite a long time and who are trusted by the owner of the site to help out with monitoring and giving their own opinion on matters. They have the last word..

True (ish)

The expert title means we have some rights and powers that ordinary members such as removing posts that don't conform to the site's rules and even banning members but these should only be used in cases where the rules are broken, NEVER to remove posts that disagree with an 'expert' for only that reason.
Apart from being unreasonable to do so, the 'powers' would be removed pretty quickly as they have been in the past, one a couple of weeks ago.
We volunteer because the forum has proven very useful to us over the years and we want to give a little something back.

We don't have the last word on a lot.

abdulkhalil wrote:

I think Indonesia is more interesting as a place to live because the cost of living is much lower than in Malaysia, people are very nice, and the country is far more interesting. I think the visa process may be a little complicated, but well worth it once it is done.  The visa process in Malaysia perhaps is more simple, I personally don't think so, and a lot of money is needed if you opt for the MM2H in Malaysia.

The visa rules in Indonesia are very complex, mostly for the reasons I've mentioned above but it is cheap and it's a very nice country to live in. I've been here a long time now and I can't think of a place I'd rather live.
Malaysia is also a very nice place but their rules are more expensive (as is life there) and the rules are pretty strict as well. I have no idea if they're obstructive in any way because I've only ever had tourist visas there but my extended holidays were pretty great and I found out a lot about the country and its people.
Nice place but it will cost you a lot more to move there and I understand citizenship is hard work.
This thread (Malaysia version) is also on that section so posters can take a look and get a comparison.

Singapore would drive me mad  after a week and I just can't get a grip on Thai food so those two are both out for me.

When it boils down, I don't believe Indonesia is obstructive at all but it has strict rules as do most countries. The paperwork is a killer by anyone's standards but I suppose it depends on how much you want something.
Imagine if they gave citizenship out like free gifts in boxes of cornflakes - What a mess.