cost of building a house

Indodiver Member

21POSTS

9 years ago

#41

what is the daily wage of workers ?

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

9 years ago

#42

Indodiver wrote:
the person I know told me he could take for himself 10% of the material bills.
how is That?

Why would he deserve it?
You need to get a relationship with the suppliers, and dump the guy trying to rip you off.

matabiru111 Member

18POSTS

9 years ago

#43

I built three houses in Indonesia and I had three horrible experiences. I was monitoring them very carefully, but things always are going so wrong exact in that moment you turn for an hour around. You can't monitor them 24 hours, which you should. None in this country can build a house proper, followed by the fact that we always got cheated even we checked things so carefully. The most difficult thing is that you make an agreement with someone and when this person is realizing that he can't fulfill the standards you think you want to have executed, he is running away in the middle of the work and then you search again for the next constructor, and the next and the next. And if you think anyone of them is take responsibility in guarantee cases, just forget it directly, you as the house owner will have to take all the risk and even someone is telling you 2mio per m2 is a standard price hahahah ya from the first constructor, but then the next one will have to correct mistakes and broken stuff and and and .... in the end it will be the double price or higher. And special in the case you as a white person show up one time, nothing will be done proper anymore and problems appearing out of nowhere, just to higher the original agreed price. I stupidly did it three times and actually I am in the middle of the last one, totally fad up and honestly i just think why not renting something cheap and move if its collapsing over your head to another cheap place, renting is even cheaper then building. But ya good luck. And as saintjean said don't use a general constructor, this person doesn't care at all actually and is just taking the money and doing not much. As she suggested go buy your material by self and pay it by self, don't ever pay deposits and if your workers telling you stories from family in hospitals don't get smooth giving down payments, thats the moment they disappear. Make clear payment agreements with reasonable building terms to be able to check and pay it, when you think it is done as you want. If they disappear then, ya you just need to look for new workers. But a kind of guarantee you will not get from anyone. Electrician do it yourself or watch them every single step they do. Let your Indonesian friend make the deals and actually be on the site 24 hours and monitor what they are doing, If you have to change the workers, because you are not satisfied, do it just when one group is gone, otherwise with small codes and informations which you probably don't understand they give each other informations you might not like that the next group of workers will have. But sorry that I am so negative, but as I said I am in the middle of the last project and fad up, i would never build again.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

9 years ago

#44

If you think about it, why would a foreigner who isn’t married to a local want to build a house here in Bali anyway? There are far, far more than enough already built properties around most all of Bali that are available for long duration leases…leases which can frequently be tailored to one’s financial needs. And if a house isn’t exactly the way you would like it to be, many existing owners are willing to make reasonable modifications or improvements as part of the lease deal.

In my many long years living here on Bali I have seen many expats who are newly arrived take the plunge into the abyss of the unknown by building a house on raw land. Very few of those projects worked out as hoped or expected. Cost overruns is just one of the common reasons cited, another common issue is the lack of clearing the project with the village leadership and what will be, your Balinese neighbors.

Indodiver Member

21POSTS

9 years ago

#45

This may be true for bali.
In flores the situation is very different, nothing suitable for rent, lease, or buy.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

9 years ago

#46

For sure, your situation (Flores) is totally different. My comments were in response to what Matabiru had written.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

9 years ago

#47

Ubudian wrote:
For sure, your situation (Flores) is totally different. .

The stuff about permits and planning is valid for both, as is the rip off factor and so on.

saintjean Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#48

Fred wrote:
Indodiver wrote:
the person I know told me he could take for himself 10% of the material bills.
how is That?

Why would he deserve it?
You need to get a relationship with the suppliers, and dump the guy trying to rip you off.

Of course, the agent could do the service for free and then not be accused of ripping you off......

Agents earn money for providing a service and in this case it is to help build a house. The fact that he was up front about adding 10% onto the cost of materials didn't need to be told, so I think he was being more honest than he needed to be, And, 10% is not considered high, 20% is more normal. If the 10% on building materials is his only profit, then even better.

Not everyone has the time or patience or interest to be on site everyday to supervise everything. That is personal and up to them. In that case it is worth paying an agent, and if all the agent is taking is 10% on the cost of the materials then it really is not very much. And Fred, that is not a rip off as you suggest. It takes time an effort to coordinate that, order the right quantity and quality of the materials, and have someone who speaks English who can understand your requirements.

And if you have never built a house before then you need an English speaking local who will relay instructions to the work team and also give feedback and advice to you about waste drainage, water supply, electrical wiring, choice of wood for doors and window frames, flooring type etc, and to assist in getting permits.

So while some may think doing everything oneself is the only way to proceed, it's not quite so simple and not for everyone. In fact, I think working with a contractor who only adds 10% on top of the cost of materials is far more economical and safe and smart than paying a contractor based on a price per square metre because contractors who quote per square metre can easily cut corners everywhere by using inferior materials and not following common sense building standards.

1 member reacted to this post

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

9 years ago

#49

saintjean wrote:
Fred wrote:
Indodiver wrote:
the person I know told me he could take for himself 10% of the material bills.
how is That?

Why would he deserve it?
You need to get a relationship with the suppliers, and dump the guy trying to rip you off.

Of course, the agent could do the service for free and then not be accused of ripping you off......

and maybe inflate the materials cost.

saintjean wrote:
Agents earn money for providing a service and in this case it is to help build a house. The fact that he was up front about adding 10% onto the cost of materials didn't need to be told, so I think he was being more honest than he needed to be, And, 10% is not considered high, 20% is more normal. If the 10% on building materials is his only profit, then even better.

or nothing if you learn how to do it yourself.
The agent isn't building the house, just supplying the materials at an inflated price.

saintjean wrote:
Not everyone has the time or patience or interest to be on site everyday to supervise everything.

True, but this was about building material costs only, not checking the site.

saintjean wrote:
And if you have never built a house before then you need an English speaking local

Assuming the OP is unable to speak Indonesian, he has already said it's in his partner's name.

In the real world - check electricians do their job properly. Most are unskilled workers who will disappear when they've finished, likely leaving duff wiring to be fixed later.
Over engineer all cable runs, using cable capable of double the required ampage.
Make sure all joints have quality connectors, preferably sealed units, making very sure they don't leave twist joints for speed and cheapness.
Also, check the breakers are set to sockets and lights separately - people don't normally do that here.

Same goes for plumbers who skimp on the glue used to connect pipes so they come apart.

NEVER have underground pipe runs unless you absolutely have to, then check them yourself before you let anyone lay a floor.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

9 years ago

#50

Fred wrote..."The stuff about permits and planning is valid for both, (Bali and Flores) as is the rip off factor and so on."

Good point Fred. My comments (why build?) were specific only to Bali where there is no need for more development at this time. Flores doesn't have that problem (over development) yet, thus I made the distinctions, understanding that new building projects in Flores are needed.

saintjean Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#51

Fred so you recommend that indodiver build the house himself?

If the workers are mostly unskilled as you say, I wish him much luck. Good luck indodiver in building a good house.

Indodiver Member

21POSTS

9 years ago

#52

Tx sain't Jean but I'm not good at that.
Euh... I could set up a tent and a gazebo, enjoy the rice field view.

saintjean Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#53

Haha...yes I guessed that. Actually it is best to filter the advice and information given out in the forum as many people want to be helpful but have different opinions.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

9 years ago

#54

saintjean wrote:
Fred so you recommend that indodiver build the house himself?

No, just check the work carefully.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

9 years ago

#55

Indodiver wrote:
I'm not good at that.
Euh... I could set up a tent and a gazebo, enjoy the rice field view.

Being unfamiliar with general aspects of building and related trades is likely to be a major disadvantage to you both in quality of the work done and likely overpricing.

dih250270 Member

2POSTS

8 years ago

#56

Hi Fred, im new here but have lived in jakarta a while. I have recently purchased land in bali, the quote you give of 120jt for construction costs, where was that?

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

8 years ago

#57

dih250270 wrote:
Hi Fred, im new here but have lived in jakarta a while. I have recently purchased land in bali, the quote you give of 120jt for construction costs, where was that?

First note - You can't legally buy land in Indonesia unless it's in your wife's name and you have a prenup stating you don't have any rights to the land.
Land in your name can be taken away from you with no compensation.

The 120 juta is still valid in many places but that was in a village outside Wonosobo. However, increases in costs would mean a smaller house now.

dih250270 Member

2POSTS

8 years ago

#58

I am married to a local with a prenup in place. I know Wonosobo, I visited there on a motorbike many moons ago. Thanks for the info

chas spencer New member

5POSTS

8 years ago

#59

hi there ...Im in oz atm but have been on and off in bali for a while ...created a business there and designed resorts and housing...the cost of construction ...residentially varies based on the specifics to your project ...location ...style ...capacity of local trades ...availability of materials ...depending on the location ...and your event of vision ...the budget varies ...the closer you can get to "local" price the better off you will be from a base budgeting perspective ...services are normally the difficult area ...plumbing and power installation ...but can be managed by services layouts and design and selection of recommended parties ...keep it simple and it tends to simplify the equation all the way through ...re land ownership...best to check that out ,,,I attended a recent seminar in bali ..where the lawyer was in fact saying ...essentially you can "own"a lease on the land and that has the abillity to be extended or rolled over ...with set triggers to do so ...certianly ...do the research keep it simple ...as a structure ...and enclosure ...you can lift the fitout and finishing ...economically ...sampai jumpa selamat sukses

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

8 years ago

#60

"essentially you can "own"a lease on the land and that has the abillity to be extended or rolled over ..."

Excellent to see that you accurately convey the truth about this point. Too many developers try to falsely convince their foreign clients that they can actually own the land.

Well done!

chas spencer New member

5POSTS

8 years ago

#61

yes its the simplistic answer to a complex question ...getting to the crux of the issues in Bali is always the challenge ...particularly when the law is involved ...then there is the local issues of access ...and the Banjar linkages preferred suppliers etc ...all makes life interesting ...and dynamic ...
the cost of construction is an elastic question in my experience as well ...hope agung is behaving herself up there ...I hear all is quiet ...people looking for work everywhere ...

abdulkhalil Banned

684POSTS

8 years ago

#62

dih250270 wrote:
Hi Fred, im new here but have lived in jakarta a while. I have recently purchased land in bali, the quote you give of 120jt for construction costs, where was that?

I think 120 juta is a really good price for building a house. We are installing a new kitchen with island and imported granite surfaces and it's costing us Rp40 juta. The cheapest quote we received for the new kitchen was around Rp30 juta.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

8 years ago

#63

The house was well built but not designed for luxury, more functionality.
The kitchen was very simple with points for the usual appliances and a concrete structure for the gas cooker, sink and food prep area.
We didn't bother with luxury fittings but we had what we needed.
I'll build another eventually but the design will be more like a courtyard house with independent apartments for the kids, but all meeting in a central area.
That and I'm going to make a dedicated cinema room this time, that'll be equipped with a nice 5.1 and a very large screen.

There's no way that'll be anywhere near Jakarta because the land would cost a stupid lump of cash so I suppose it'll be in a place like Purwokerto or maybe we'll get wild and move to Lombok - That's a beautiful place but the agents haven't sent the prices up to crazy yet.

1 member reacted to this post

abdulkhalil Banned

684POSTS

8 years ago

#64

Good idea for the cinema room. We have two living rooms but the void means the noise from one TV travels up or down too easily, so a cinema room is an excellent idea for undisturbed listening. But the place we have now is designed with lots of voids and openness so that we never get the problem of mold and damp on the walls which is unpleasant, that is sort of a priority with us.

Courtyard is nice too. We have a small more or less inside garden 5m x 5m in size with a pond and patio as we live downtown, but nice to have a big place with land and have a large courtyard.

If building in Bali, it's good to use polished concrete for the floor surface and work surfaces because it is cheaper, cool to the touch and easy to maintain as well as stylish.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

8 years ago

#65

Indonesia has many problems when it comes to building but many of these are avoidable with good design.
Water piping tends to be weak and electrical stuff is commonly a dangerous joke so give thought to how these are fitted.
My next place will have a walk in service duct and no pipes or wires either underfloor or in roof space.
Lighting (all LED) won't be in the ceilings - too much like messing around if you have problems.

Dreamer993 New member

9POSTS

8 years ago

#66

Hi, how much have you spent at the end to build your 80m2 house in labuan bajo?
I'm looking for a property as I'm planning to open a restaurant in Labuan Bajo
If anyone can give me some advice or help I will be grateful. (I was already in Indonesia 2 time)

abdulkhalil Banned

684POSTS

8 years ago

#67

@Dreamers993

In the business of building properties, the quick way that contractors quote is per m2 depending on the standard you require.

Dreamer993 New member

9POSTS

8 years ago

#68

So an average for standard quality?
I know in Indonesia they don’t give a quote for m2 (it’s right??)

abdulkhalil Banned

684POSTS

8 years ago

#69

It's mentioned in earlier threads and it's a guideline but many contractors quite this way. Rp3 million per m2 for decent. Rp2 million for lower quality. Rp4 million for higher quality.

When you meet with a contractor they will need to know the size of the building in m2. Just ask them how they calculate when they quote you. Obviously if you want to put in expensive tiles or solid wood floors then that raises the price.

Dealing directly with the workers is cheaper but you need one smart guy in charge.

saintjean Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#70

A lot will go on the quality you want, specifications, materials you use and quality of the finish, I would stipulate and supervise everything you possibly can do from the preparation of the land, drainage (both sewage and land drainage including rain fall, footings I would also stipulate no asbestos as it’s a common material used in Indonesia, I would recommend resins as doors and frames including window frames (or metal) due to termites same for the roof, again what roof finish? Metal or roof tile or felt? Again asbestos to think about if using brick/ block, these are not regulated for strength and many ( not all are fired in a local kiln (if fired at all) reinforced concrete is common but what quality of steel reinforcement do you want? 3-1 mix? 4-1, 5-1?
Block and concrete is 99.9% of the time single skin if double seldom pind and costly
Do you want to be in to it in 12 weeks or 12 months? Brick work won’t have a typical 10/12mm gap on the mortar/ cement but closer to 20/25mm therefore weak
Pick a price 200m to over a billion

saintjean Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#71

Exactly the same experiences on Sulawesi.

abdulkhalil Banned

684POSTS

8 years ago

#72

All good advice above.

We're building our third house at the moment and looking for a fourth. We don't use a general contractor because of the price markup for their service and the markup they make on materials. We choose our materials and have a good guy in charge. The last house cost about Rp1.4 billion including demolition of the old house, foundations all the way through to completion. Next one will cost about Rp200 million to renovate and when finished will rent out for around Rp70 million a year.

saintjean Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#73

Good on you, I liked the part you said “around 70million” flexibility is key just not enough of it on rents or sales in my opinion
We’ve just bought land actually (Wednesday) with an option to get the plot next to it, had to do it as the IDR is poor against the £ at the moment so HSBC had us both for two days and lawyers and I saved 20% compared to 6 months ago (the Mrs still doesn’t quite grasp currency exchanges)
I’ve noticed here certain builders are improving so much and high quality I would go as far as high end Bali but not as consistent
Good luck with your enterprise

Simyas Member

2POSTS

7 years ago

#74

abdulkhalil wrote:
All good advice above.

We're building our third house at the moment and looking for a fourth. We don't use a general contractor because of the price markup for their service and the markup they make on materials. We choose our materials and have a good guy in charge. The last house cost about Rp1.4 billion including demolition of the old house, foundations all the way through to completion. Next one will cost about Rp200 million to renovate and when finished will rent out for around Rp70 million a year.

Can you recommend a good plumber?