"Anything Goes" thread

@ondami I wasn't attempting to water anything down - I simply stated what I was told by a mixed-race Dominican. Racism, classism, nationalism - they all exist here, just as they do in most places in this world to some degree.

@ Fred

When knowledge is communicated and transmitted it reminds me of the words uttered by the one unique personality that stated "...for those that have ears let them hear and for those that have sight let them see..."

Obviously, for those whom seek knowledge and understanding have learned that these have fallen on death ears and to the shifting of gaze away to another direction to avoid fear hence ignorance prevails as it has always plagued humanity since the beginning of the fall of man.

As far as racism is concerned, the DR had nominated a black presidential candidate for one the major political party - Partido Revolucinario Dominicano (PRD). His name  José Francisco Peña Gómez.

Born in 1937 and died in 1998.

He was the leader of the Dominican Revolutionary Party (PRD), from 1965, a three-time candidate for president of the Dominican Republic and former Mayor of Santo Domingo.

He was the son of Haitian victims of the 1937 massacre. Yet still, Dominicans are ironically called racist. This labeling is obviously erroneous as it is in direct contrast to the reality of a large majority of the Dominican populous that voted for a major political party of the time with a black son of haitian parents as president of their party -  José Francisco Peña Gómez - PRD.

There is also a former merengue super star, Johnny Ventura - (1940 -2021) When he started his musical career, Merengue, as we know it today, did not exist.

His lyrics covered topics ranging from romantic love to the racial reality of black Dominicans, including also odes to his motherland. All of this while keeping a soft humorous double-meaning tone.

He also became a politician. He served as a Member of Parliament from 1982 to 1986; and Vice-Mayor of Santo Domingo, the capital of the Dominican Republic, from 1994 to 1998; and Mayor of the same city, from 1998 until 2002.

Dominicans are for the most part of mixed ancestry, spanish, african, taino natives, and more. They are a happy people with a welcoming culture. Just look at all the expats whom moved there plus the one's yet to follow. As far as racism is concerned, I can only say evil has no boundaries.

It makes one wonder why does racism really exist. Is it because one race feels superior to another or is it because one culture dislikes another not own? My personal opinion on this is that racism is due to ignorance and stupidity. Just my opinion. Though I'm always open to learning as not to assume anything, being open to enlightenment as it is always welcome and good to learn something new.   

1937 Massacre - (AKA) Parsley Massacre - Massacre Del Perejil

It was dubbed the Parsly Massacre because Haitians could not pronounce the Spanish word perejil (parsley). To avoid confusing a black Dominican for a Haitian, the Dominican troops interrogated 1000's upon 1000's of civilians to see if the blacks in question were either Dominican or Haitian by demanding they pronounce the Spanish word perejil. 

One may ask what happened and why did it happen. Was it based from racism or was it something else? 

A brief summary in Dominican-Haitian history  What was the reasoning behind the 1937 Massacre one may ask.

This period in time was when the Dominican dictator Rafel Leonidas Trujillo Molina was in power. He ruled from August 1930 until his assassination in May 1961.

Many Dominicans toward the border with Haiti at that time (1930's) had been complaining to the authorities for years about the problems with the Haitians living among them. Time and time again the local employers and the local dominican community told the Haitian workers they had to return back to Haiti after they completed there work for the day. Howvever, they refused to leave and made their illegal tresspass a permanent residence. Finally, the culmination of all the complaint reports reached the dictator''s ears and got his attention. He arranged a trip to the troubled area to investigate and inquire further on the many complaints.

After he received a first hand account of the complaints he decided on bold action to get a hold on the situation. He made his intentions clear to the Haitian community living there through a speech he gave in  October, 1937 in the province of Dajabón.

He basically said - For months, he traveled the border to get a sense of what is happening there. He, investigated, and inquired about the needs of the people. To the Dominicans who were complaining of the depredations by Haitians living among them, thefts of cattle, provisions, fruits, etc., and were prevented from enjoying in peace the products of their labor, I have responded, Since the haitians refuse to obey the migrant work agreement by refusing to leave Dominican territory -  In his speech he stated he will fix the problem. He had already given the order to remedy the situation.

The dictator acted in response to complaint reports of Haitians stealing cattle and crops from Dominican borderland residents. Trujillo commanded his army to kill all Haitians living in the Dominican Republic's northwestern frontier and in certain parts of the Cibao region.

Between 2 October and 8 October, 1937 hundreds of Dominican troops, who came mostly from other areas of the country, poured into the Cibao, and used rifles, machetes, shovels, knives, and bayonets to kill Haitians.

The Dominican dictator Trujillo, felt he needed take swift power action to make the Haitian community understand he wasn't messing around. This was the message he knew the stubborn Haitians would understand and have to respect. Fear is the only thing the Haitians respond to. 

He felt that would put an end to all the illegal migration once and for all. As he knew Haitians still believed the DR to be historically theirs and so they ignored the boundaries and Dominican customs and laws.

As interview with local Dominicans, the common denominator is that Haitians have a total different culture and language than the Dominicans. Dominicans also mention they feel the outsides think they are racist and the bad guys. They mention, this is not the case. They simply state that Haitians have been seen on throughout time on numerous ocassions defacating on public streets in the plain-of daylight for all too see this despicable act.  It's is obviously a public nusance and Dominicans just won't tolerate that kind of social behavior which is absolutely horrendous and plain disgusting.

On another note as spaeking of sanitary conditions of Dominican streets and roadways, many of them are full of trash. One way ask why is this not addressed. It may very well be a lack of social responsibility to acknowledge and rectify the problem.

Progress is on it's way however, at a very slow pace as this has not reached the priority it deserves to fund it on a national level.

Any and all comments welcome of course.

One other item that many Dominicans can't tolerate is that of the Haitian religion practice of voodooism because they leave all those artifacts of the witchcraft in plane view on public streets mainly with dead black chickens and other witchcraft items and it is just ofensive for any non-Haitian pedestrian or motorists passing by to witness these satanic works popping up in the streets of the DR.   

Fast-forward to present day crisis at the border. Back in 1937, the dictator Trujillo had all haitians killed in the DR. Today, the country is overwheled with haitians as it is no longer run by a dictator who handled his business back-in the day and got rid of the illegal Haitians migrants whom thought they can do as they please.

However, history is repeating itself at the same location at the northwestern border at Dajabon. However this time around no dictator around in the DR but a democracy in power. This democratic government seems powerless to remedy the situation as Haitians are everywhere overwhelming and impacting the DR on so many levels.

The cheap labor afforded by the Haitian migrants is the only benefit because the Dominicans workforce lack the skill set many Haitians bring to the construction field of building. Other than that, Haitians are placing a huge strain in the public hospitals and public education.

When one digs through some research, one may plainly see how the DR-Haiti border crisis and mass illegal border-crossings reached this level - corruption and bribery. These two alsways work as an effective team.

An additional note for clarity purpose. The killing of any people- one person or many is wrong period.

Also, in regards to the neighboring Haitian crisis as it relates to humanitarian help and assistance, the news reports state the Biden administration is not changing it's policy to accept any Haitians as refugees despite the ongoing crisis. However in contrast, the US ambassador to the UN along others expects the DR open up it's borders to Haiti and accept them as refugees.

Any thoughts, welcome. Please share.

    Also, in regards to the neighboring Haitian crisis as it relates to humanitarian help and assistance, the news reports state the Biden administration is not changing it's policy to accept any Haitians as refugees despite the ongoing crisis. However in contrast, the US ambassador to the UN along others expects the DR open up it's borders to Haiti and accept them as refugees.
Any thoughts, welcome. Please share.
   

    -@Nanosaso

Do as I say, not as I do?

Division of people to groups alike is natural and to some extent is healthy. This how we survived since cave men. It's not necessarily skin color. It can be same religion, same language, same culture, same clans, origin, family. 

Most of the time it's not because of hate but for convenience and easier relationships (same language and culture). Often because of mistrust.

I work in IT in Canada and most of my friends in IT, and I know that Indian SW manager will 90% of times hire Indian SW developers. I don't hire Indian developers because in my experience most of them have fake diplomas, so I do stereotyping for convenience. 

I had wife of a different ethnicity (same skin color) and often in conflicts she resorted to ethnic insults. I hated it and learned a lesson that "a wife must be of the same ethnicity".

North Egyptians don't like South Egyptians (skin color)

Arabs in Gaza hate arabs in West bank (different clans and ethnicity)

India has divisions by casts and skin color

West Libyans don't like East Libyans (different clans)

Northern Chinese don't like Southern Chinese

Shia muslims hate Sunni

Everybody don't like Jews (no logically explained reasons, just anti-Semitism)

Western lefties hate righties and vice-versa.

List is endless.

Skin color is just a tiny subset of what divides people, but for some reason it got so much attention in the USA and Canada.

Treating each other equally is artificial. It belongs only to Western Civilization; it's relatively new, and not tested by time at all. It's neo-Marxist mentality - oppressor/appressed paradigm. It will kill Western Civilization because it opened doors to welcome "oppressed" from all over the world. And they come to western countries in big numbers, but with very different mentality: they were raised differently, they don't feel any guilt, they come to take what they can. 

I think Dominicans have they own traditions and rights and it's not our business to teach them how to live. Maybe they have reasons for being racists? By experience they know that black people (from Haiti) who attacked them three times don't bring any good. They also have reasons to hate whites, because reach expats come, build huge villas, don't work, eat and drink in restaurants, and only bring inflation.

    Division of people to groups alike is natural and to some extent is healthy. This how we survived since cave men. It's not necessarily skin color. It can be same religion, same language, same culture, same clans, origin, family. 

    -@Herman.Ka

Probably true, but our big brains have the capability of thinking past 'caveman'.

I see it this way; judge on how nice someone is, and forget the rest.

@Herman.Ka Wow. i do not even know where to begin with your post. Generalizations, check,  stereotypes, check, use of ”they”,  check, rationalizing discrimination, check.

FYI I do not hate people of the Jewish faith;  thus, your comment about ”everybody hating Jews…” has just been disproved.

@ddmcghee you were told by someone else.  I once heard that if we do not know something to in fact be true, we should not say it, nor repeat it.  Doing so is the root of mis- and disinformation.

    @ddmcghee you were told by someone else.  I once heard that if we do not know something to in fact be true, we should not say it, nor repeat it.  Doing so is the root of mis- and disinformation.        -@ondami

What?  Yes and you were told this nugget of wisdom by someone else? I guess you shouldn't have repeated it. Let me guess your retort...you read this somewhere, so it's valid.

Ok can we not attack anyone personally!!!????

And let's stay focused on the DR and it's issues.

Ok, let me try this. Race and prejudice is a lot about perception, and ignorance, especially in a culture that is not well educated (e.g. DR, American rural south, etc). ddmcghee's comment speaks to this I believe.

Like to know why some countries like the DR for example require one provide ID when buying a SIM card for their phone while other countries like the US don't require an ID.

Can anyone answer this as it relates to the DR?

In the US privacy is paramount, though the policies after 9/11 have challenged many privacy concerns.

So, just wondering what is the DR's government policy in regards to right to privacy.

DR, I heard, is a major hub of shipping drugs from South America to Europe. Probably, the government is trying to fight it, and privacy become a collateral.

Again I am asking to keep this DR relates.  Other posts will be removed.

    Like to know why some countries like the DR for example require one provide ID when buying a SIM card for their phone while other countries like the US don't require an ID.
Can anyone answer this as it relates to the DR?
   

This   came into place a few years ago. Before that anyone could just go get. cells and sims. I cannot remember the reasoning.

    In the US privacy is paramount, though the policies after 9/11 have challenged many privacy concerns.
So, just wondering what is the DR's government policy in regards to right to privacy.
   

    -@Nanosaso

The right to privacy is very very different here.  Comes, I think, from our base in French law. You see suspects faces and ID splashed all over the media. You are guilty until proven innocent.

You have to supply your local ID for absolutely everything here!  It's so different then North America and I assume other places.

Only protection is underage victims but even then they will announce the parents so it's not hard to figure out!

        In the US privacy is paramount, though the policies after 9/11 have challenged many privacy concerns. So, just wondering what is the DR's government policy in regards to right to privacy.        -@NanosasoThe right to privacy is very very different here.  Comes, I think, from our base in French law. You see suspects faces and ID splashed all over the media. You are guilty until proven innocent.You have to supply your local ID for absolutely everything here!  It's so different then North America and I assume other places.Only protection is underage victims but even then they will announce the parents so it's not hard to figure out!         -@planner

I love ID cards.

I need to replace my almost out of date ATM card. To do so I must take my biometric ID card and have my fingerprints read on a little machine.

Getting hold of a card to commit fraud is pretty much impossible.

The same goes for pretty much everything else, even buying a SIM card.

The rules have killed off most of the locally generated scams as the cops can find criminals with far greater ease.

If DR has similar rules, you're lucky.

We are still behind the times but catching up!

@planner

Oh, I see. Okay. It will take getting use to. Thank you for revealing this information so at least now that I'm equipped with this knowledge, the transition would be yet smoother.

This is why this Forum is so valuable. I'm for one very grateful to engage and learn as much as possible from all who comment and provide insight through answers on all types of subjects or topics. 

Thank so much!

Cheers!!!

@ Planner

Is France government structure same as the DR as mentioned - the DR being based on French law??

Does France also require ID for everything like the DR does??

Or maybe the question should be flipped over to - does the DR copy it's laws to those of France?

Just wondering how this ID required for everything fit in to the revalations by whistle blower Snowden whom revealed how the government can spy on everyone through their phones...as punishment for revealing this he can no longer enter his country as he lives in exile.

Some label him guilty of treason while others call him a hero.

So this notion of ID for everything is very interesting as it appears the DR is like a test lab where "Things" are tested out and further analyzed for what ever agenda the new world order may employ and execute through large international banks, companies and corparations with global reach and influence.

Any thoughts?  Please share.

In the DR ,basically ID for everything is putting personal data into the government data bases in the hands of those whom have the power. Many international agencies will have access to these data bases. Total control is the aim of the new world order.

The implementation of requiring an ID for everything is the start of total control where you can't buy anything, nor do any business. Hence, if you don't have an ID your cut off from the world order and will find it almost impossible to make a living.

Sounds like the "ID" being required will later be enhanced into a personal unique universal ID required for everything and will be akin to what is warned about as what is to come as prophesy stated in the Holy Scriptures.

Are we following the signs or does it even matter?

All views are welcome as planner mentioned - keeping comments civil and respectful as it relates to the DR.

    DR, I heard, is a major hub of shipping drugs from South America to Europe. Probably, the government is trying to fight it, and privacy become a collateral.
   

    -@Herman.Ka

A chain is as strong as it's weakest link. Hence, corrupt government and military officials will continue the drug trade as it is very profitable. This is true for all governments around the world. Though it is true, governments are taking measures to make it harder to smuggle drugs, but as long as there is money to be made the fight is rather pointless.

Further analogy reveal how government's are really after the drug lords fortune and disguise it as the "war on drugs" to justify their seizure of assets for their own benefit. In essense they steal from the drug lords to enrich their pockets for example Colombias imfamous Pablo Escobar and Mexico's El Chapo millions, property and assets. All their accumulated fortunes were basically ripped off yet drugs still continue to be smuggled in and out all over the world.

It all depends on how one views these topics as the DR is a major player among others like Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Jamaica, Cuba and Venezuela and more whom are involved in the crafty world of drug smuggling.

So the law is based on Napoleanic code or French law.  The govt is a democracy full of corruption.

We won't be engaging in conspiracy theories either. In terms of ID it is what it is!  There is a massive under the table economy here including a growing % of expats.  Tightening up ID requirements is part of capturing more of that economy.

FYI folks, where there a rules and regulations you will also find an underground economy(ies).

Agreed. The underground economy here is huge. The same people who don't pay any form of taxes demand services.  For example there was a decent program of support for employees during covid shutdowns.  It ONLY applied to legal employees.  Those who screamed the loudest were illegal employees and small business owners.  In fact one who pleaded for help online was an illegal employer wanting help for his illegal employees! He was an expat!

OKAY - onto another topic - I cannot for find the the thread that stated the new location for obtaining/renewing the cedula. I recall it being along JF Kennedy Ave (I think) Can someone provide with that location please. I want to check it out when it SD on 8-9 Apr. Thanks very much.

@mocaman67  I hope this helps:

https://dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2024/02/07/jce-relocates-immigration-department-to-john-f-kennedy-avenue-building/

Yes - thanks very much! Lost this info in the maze of notices. I now have this location written down and will verify when in SD shortly - it's right off the route I have to go & return on....

As far as racism is concerned, the DR had nominated a black presidential candidate for one the major political party - Partido Revolucinario Dominicano (PRD). His name  José Francisco Peña Gómez.
Born in 1937 and died in 1998.

I was in the Dominican Republic for that election cycle.  Leonel ran an ad on TV showing a Lion attacking and eating a monkey.  At the time, that add seemed incredibly racist.

        Like to know why some countries like the DR for example require one provide ID when buying a SIM card for their phone while other countries like the US don't require an ID.Can anyone answer this as it relates to the DR?   

This   came into place a few years ago. Before that anyone could just go get. cells and sims. I cannot remember the reasoning.
   

    -@planner

I bought a SIM card last month without any ID.  Albeit, it was from one of those phone accessory stores, not from one of the phone carriers.

@Steverino7777 im sorry trump.ckearly TDS but dont worry there is a cure.political statements and mentalities like this are not helpful

@Steverino7777 clearly TDS at work here .shat i fibd deeppy troubling is the democrats politicising the kegal system to stop a presidential candidate that millions want to vote for ftom running and fielding a guy with dementia .you couldnt make it up

    @Steverino7777 clearly TDS at work here .shat i fibd deeppy troubling is the democrats politicising the kegal system to stop a presidential candidate that millions want to vote for ftom running and fielding a guy with dementia .you couldnt make it up
   

    -@eastbourne

Um....what???

just come back on line after awhile and saw something you posted i assume recently about the terrible state of the world that included Trump .i happen to support him like millions of others and the post bad spellings and all was a response