re: Problem with staying in hanoi

8POSTS

9 years ago

Girlfriend and I recently have a 3month old baby. Baby and mother is vietnamese. We are not married.
We stay in the same home the police came and say i am not allowed to stay in the home.
I now work in Singapore so i come every month to visit the baby and mother.
Appreciate if someone can help how to solve this issue?

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NoPinky Active member

37POSTS

9 years ago

As far as I know you can register your temporary residence there. Go to the police station with an interpreter or your girlfriend and say you want to register. Like you would if it was a hotel or you stay at as friends house in Vietnam.
It is no big issue, I wonder why your girlfriend doesn't know how to handle it, or why the police claim why you can't stay there. While sometimes the police seems unreasonable, but still they can't be like " you can't stay here, because I say so".
Would also be a bummer if you and your girlfriend can't communicate well enough for her to explain to you what the police want. You know, language barrier and stuff...

pandapower New member

8POSTS

9 years ago

Hi Pinky, thanks for that. will try to do it once i am back there.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

Agree with Pinky, its not illegal to reside with a lady, but you must be registered with police.As I have said many times over the last 10 years, its about time this whole police registration was made null and void, its so old school communist.

MarkinNam ViP

1063POSTS

9 years ago

its so old school communist.

reckon it's gonna change

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

It is slowly, but there is money to be made from registrations, thats what its all about.

pandapower New member

8POSTS

9 years ago

thanks all but does anyone knows what this is called in Vietnamese?

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

pandapower wrote:
thanks all but does anyone knows what this is called in Vietnamese?

You mean the registration... đăng ký tạm trú

pandapower New member

8POSTS

9 years ago

thanks mate.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#10

They will request money from the home owner, its their usual MO.

pandapower New member

8POSTS

9 years ago

#11

my gf is the home owner so hopefully all good.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#12

It sounds like your gf didnt eant to register you. All VN know that each persin must be registered. They will still ask her for money, its how they operate.

Diazo Serial expat

948POSTS

9 years ago

#13

Have a current copy of the Vietnamese Family law handy when the police start this BS. Indeed it use to be against the law for to unwed people to live together. But the law was changed. Different matter if one is married and one is single though. They are just wanting coffee money. But they will back off when they know you know the law.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#14

Diazo wrote:
Have a current copy of the Vietnamese Family law handy when the police start this BS. Indeed it use to be against the law for to unwed people to live together. But the law was changed. Different matter if one is married and one is single though. They are just wanting coffee money. But they will back off when they know you know the law.

Thats true, but the law states everyone who resides at the house is registered at the local ward Cong An. It sounds like she hasnt done this.

RICHIE2013 Active member

40POSTS

9 years ago

#15

Hi

The Registration forms required to be able to stay outside of a guesthouse or hotel are numbers:

NA17 and N12.

They are very easy to obtain normally from the local police station. I didn't have to pay or bribe at all, just the cost of some photocopies at the shop next door. The papers were made there and then with a wait of about 30 minutes. My partner had to show the family book, her i.d card and my passport. Every time I get a new exit/entry stamp, or an extension of stay stamp in my passport I must go back to show them. It's all quite easy where I live and everyone who works up in the offices where it is all done is very nice and polite. I don't know if I'm lucky or not but it's certainly no hassle here at all. Basically if I lived anywhere other than a Hotel or Guest house I would have to be registered like this so it's not necessary because someone is living with their partner and are unmarried. Even if you were married you would still have to register with forms NA17 and N12.

And if you get these 2 forms completed you are legally registered to live at that address (and only that address, or a hotel etc) so if you get these 2 forms completed then any police that come knocking should find it very difficult to create any problems.

But you do need to get them. Even if it's just for peace of mind.

Hope this helps,
Richie

NoPinky Active member

37POSTS

9 years ago

#16

@colinoscapee, MarkinNam
no offence, but why do you assume that it is a communist thing? In Germany, if you are a resident, you have to register your new address within 2 weeks. As a tourist, this time period extends to 2 month. It is the same principle. But no one would say it is a communist thing when Germans do it

.
Those are very basic rules and regulations when you come to another country as a visitor. A quick google search would give you the steps to take. Just go by the books and have your peace, more time and mindspace to visit the country, meet people.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#17

Are you saying that if you reside in Germany,every time you relocate you must go to the local police to register it. Every person who stays with you must also be registered.

The difference would be that in Germany its done in a civil way, here its all about the bucks in the green mafias pocket. I know of landlords who have been tteated ruthlessly by Cong An all because they wouldnt grease the grubs palm.

NoPinky Active member

37POSTS

9 years ago

#18

yes, read here:
http://blog.mygermanexpert.com/2014/11/ … Guide.html

"The difference would be that in Germany its done in a civil way"
Yes, I was only talking about the law itself, not how it is enforced, nor how the police treat you. What you mention is "only" corruption, has nothing to do with communism. (No, I'm no fan of communism)

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#19

Im sure you will find the German sytem and VN system are not quite the same. Communism has a history of being blatantly corrupt, hence the reason why so many countries dropped communism.

gobot ViP

1430POSTS

9 years ago

#20

NoPinky wrote:
@colinoscapee, MarkinNam
no offence, but why do you assume that it is a communist thing?

Because in Vietnam the authoritarian single-party government is run by communists?
So, it by definition is it a communist thing here!

In California, an address change should be reported to the dept of motor vehicles within 10 days. DMV because everyone has a car. But you don't need to tell the local police, or federal govt (until next annual tax filing). You don't have to report to the police every night changes to who are the occupants of your house. Neither citizens or foreigners have to submit passports/identity cards to hotels for police reporting every night. As an American spoiled by freedom of movement, I will attest that a government tracking and spying on me feels especially repugnant, like old 'communism' (think Soviet Russia, North Korea, East Germany, ...).

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#21

One of my former land lady's told the local police she didn't want to pay coffee money. She was 70 years old and they made her run around in the summer heat of Saigon collecting paperwork and such things. When she had collected it all she went to the head of the Mafia and gave him the paperwork. Upon receiving this paperwork he just looked at her, then threw the paperwork back at her and said " this paperwork means nothing". I doubt this would be the case in Germany or the USA.

pandapower New member

8POSTS

9 years ago

#22

Hi thanks for all the inputs. So i need to go personally to apply for this form or can i get my gf to do on my behalf with my copy of passport? Thanks

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#23

Get your gf to do it.

Diazo Serial expat

948POSTS

9 years ago

#24

We have to do the same registration process in most US states I know of. They certainly do in mine. Maybe we are all looking ourselves about freedoms.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#25

Diazo wrote:
We have to do the same registration process in most US states I know of. They certainly do in mine. Maybe we are all looking ourselves about freedoms.

Do you have to pay police money to register, does the landlord have to pay money to have non-american citizens reside in the house.

Diazo Serial expat

948POSTS

9 years ago

#26

In my country we do not register with the police, but yes they charge a fee. We simply register with the state gov't. But that is all your doing here really.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#27

Luckily we dont have this in Australia.

pandapower New member

8POSTS

9 years ago

#28

Hi. How do you write this family law book thing in Vietnamese? My gf doesn't know.. thanks

pandapower New member

8POSTS

9 years ago

#29

Hi Richie,
Do you stay in Hanoi? Gf told me HCMC and Hanoi is different. So im really confused.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#30

Laws are one, interpretation and governing are a complete mess.

RICHIE2013 Active member

40POSTS

9 years ago

#31

Hi Pandapower

I stay in Tay Ninh in the South West on the Cambodian border, about 3 hours from HCMC.

THIGV ViP

4427POSTS

9 years ago

#32

If only the Vietnamese police could stop all this registration silliness, maybe they could spend some time to stop a few of the worst traffic violations. Perhaps people get the government they deserve.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#33

I too had the same issue. But I talked to an attorney and was informed that this is not illegal. Just need to register. Went to the police station and informed them that no laws where broken and registered. With a small amount of money offered, the problem went away. Now I live here in Hanoi with her. We never get problems more. I've lived here with her for a year now. When I renew my visa, I take a copy to the police station and tell where I'm staying and pay a little more. Then all is cool for us.

robvan Contributor

127POSTS

9 years ago

#34

Yep, it's definitely the communist control mentality. Call it make-work or corruption if you like, but the desk-bound bureaucrats want to keep track of people moving through the country.

The 'Western' registration requirements that others are talking about for Germany etc are normal government regulations to determine where you live -- something Napoleon introduced in Western Europe at the time. Some Anglo-Saxon countries (Australia, maybe also Britain) don't require that yet. And none of them insist on knowing where tourists spend each night.

When I lived in Holland in the '70s I used to travel to Prague once of twice a year to visit my godchild there, and my hosts never bothered even though they had to. It was never a problem crossing the border back to freedom in West Germany, but hotels there stuck by it because their operating licence depended on it. Same as in Vietnam now.

Our landlady here in Vietnam wants us to renew our lease for one-year periods rather than six-months because she has to pay the police the same amount each time -- and run around, including us with new photocopies etc.

When we first moved into our house in Saigon, the police and the local neighbourhood-watch goon turned up at 10pm after a week because our agent had neglected to register us on time. She did so the next day but had to pay "big money".

I hope you're right that this is going to change. But what makes you say that the Party is going to relent?

Rob

Mac68 Serial expat

357POSTS

9 years ago

#35

I just saw this.
Wow! That took awhile to get to. Just listen to Bruce and Colonescape, be sure nothing within family is a problem.
Or, not to sound crass, but what are you looking to do in the long term?
These things are most complicated by commitment, or lack thereof. Where you, your girlfriend, baby, (family) go to police station together. with paperwork, dong$ in hand it usually comes down to money.
Best of luck to you all