Some schools are refusing to accept the old ‘A’ ID card.

I have to say that I went to the Department of Education in Valletta just few weeks go to transfer my son's school registration from Mellieha to Balzan, and I did not have any issues whatsoever. I only showed them a proof of my appointment for the ID card (which is now on the 27th of Aug) and they have accepted. Now, as soon as we get the ID cards sorted, then I will have to go back to them and of course provide the ID cards.

One also has to bear in mind who is making the claim.

redmik wrote:

One also has to bear in mind who is making the claim.

Subtle, Mick...................very subtle.

Does anyone know if the 'M' cards have run out? Are the Maltese having the same problems??

coxf0001 wrote:

Does anyone know if the 'M' cards have run out? Are the Maltese having the same problems??

Interestingly they are a 'closed' Facebook group so I cannot ask them directly. However, I have asked the following questions publicly through GozoNews.com

Can anyone state how many times this has happened?
Can anyone cite specific examples?
I wonder?

redmik wrote:

coxf0001 wrote:

Does anyone know if the 'M' cards have run out? Are the Maltese having the same problems??

Interestingly this is a 'closed' group so I cannot ask them directly. However, I have asked the following questions publicly through GozoNews.com

Can anyone state how many times this has happened?
Can anyone cite specific examples?
I wonder?

The university are on top of it, informing everyone that the id card is still valid until end of Nov, so I'm sure the schools must know. would be interesting, which school/s it is. The Maria Regina school causes problems even when you have id and residency. Still wanted a rent contract, her argument was, I still might not live in Malta!!!!!!

She obviously didn't study Probability Theory.

most M cards are invalid. and have been for years.

One also has to bear in mind what will happen after november when the A cards expire yet again.

Red - i assume you are suggesting that the claims from the "up in arms" group are false.?

It would also seem that if it is a closed group whats to stop you asking once you joined to find out.  then leave!!!!! no real hardship in that?????

toonarmy9752 wrote:

One also has to bear in mind what will happen after november when the A cards expire yet again.

Red - i assume you are suggesting that the claims from the "up in arms" group are false.?

It would also seem that if it is a closed group whats to stop you asking once you joined to find out.  then leave!!!!! no real hardship in that?????

I am suggesting nothing, just asking for evidence, given that no specifics are mentioned.
Nothing wrong in that.

I also choose not to follow the obvious path.

fair enough. - like much of everything that happens here very rarely do specifics come out.

It would be interesting to know how many times this has happened, on the other hand its a shame it has happened atall.  It seems there is a great communication breakdown between different departments about what is the right procedure, different staff members seem to give different answers, could do with everyone being taught the law and correct documentation and procedures and then all sticking to it, probably a tall order from what I have observed!

rainbow3 wrote:

It would be interesting to know how many times this has happened, on the other hand its a shame it has happened atall.  It seems there is a great communication breakdown between different departments about what is the right procedure, different staff members seem to give different answers, could do with everyone being taught the law and correct documentation and procedures and then all sticking to it, probably a tall order from what I have observed!

I feel, if Malta had just come into the EU without their 7 year clause, this would have all been sorted ages ago. They would have joined the EU, being given the rules of what was needed. When I first got here, they told me, after 2 days of waiting at the Castille number 3, that I didn't need to apply for residency....7 years on and I am told that the information was wrong, my kids shouldn't be at school, I should have certificates for health care etc...The rule changing and stress over all this has been problematic the last 3-4 years, since their clause was up.

12th May, 2013:

‘Hi all. Moved to Gozo in Feb (Xaghra) and we couldn't get our daughter to school until after Easter due to the new residency laws…'

Source: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=259252

coxf0001 wrote:

rainbow3 wrote:

It would be interesting to know how many times this has happened, on the other hand its a shame it has happened atall.  It seems there is a great communication breakdown between different departments about what is the right procedure, different staff members seem to give different answers, could do with everyone being taught the law and correct documentation and procedures and then all sticking to it, probably a tall order from what I have observed!

I feel, if Malta had just come into the EU without their 7 year clause, this would have all been sorted ages ago. They would have joined the EU, being given the rules of what was needed. When I first got here, they told me, after 2 days of waiting at the Castille number 3, that I didn't need to apply for residency....7 years on and I am told that the information was wrong, my kids shouldn't be at school, I should have certificates for health care etc...The rule changing and stress over all this has been problematic the last 3-4 years, since their clause was up.

Thats interesting cox, I didnt know about the 7 year clause,it is stressful when the rules keep changing.

Re: EU law, your children and their schooling in another EU country.

The children of EU citizens are entitled to attend school in any EU country under the same conditions as nationals of that country.

Therefore, the practice of 1) State/Government primary-secondary schools not permitting non-Maltese EU/EEA/Swiss children to attend classes or 2) State/Government primary-secondary schools requiring fees from non-Maltese EU/EEA/Swiss parents unless and until they obtain an ‘e-Residence Card' is illegal because EU law stipulates that an ‘e-Residence Card' ‘may under no circumstances be made a precondition for the exercise of a right or the completion of an administrative formality, because entitlement to rights may be attested by any other means of proof.'

In this connection, the European Commission has confirmed in writing that non-Maltese EU citizens ‘are entitled to prove their right of residence in Malta and any right connected to it by any means of proof (e.g. work contract, former and current payslips, utility bills, etc.).'

In addition, ‘……Equal treatment requirements are not limited to the government. It applies equally to other institutions in a host member state, for example: employers, businesses, service providers, transportation providers, clubs and hospitals…..'

Sources: see page 36: Directive 2004/38/EC - Article 25 - General provisions concerning residence documents:

1) http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 3Aen%3APDF

2) http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/11 … treatment/

3) http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/ed … dex_en.htm

Moreover, please see: http://gozonews.com/40423/e-resident-ca … -citizens/

Thanks for the info Byron.

The problem is, when I have been mixed up in their lack of understanding of rules etc, the only one that suffers is me. I know you can complain to people but at the time they have you over a barrel. If these people are refusing to except the rules, you just stand there and what??

So you're at the school, want to start them and they say no. Yes it will get sorted, eventually, after you've paid fees, yes they will pay it back or worse still your kids don't go. What a load of hassle. It doesn't stop with schools, it's a mess everywhere.

Hi Byron and others,

there seem to be several issues that are being folded up into this ID card/ residency issue.

Whether you like it or not the residency procedures are governed by local law and not by EU law.

For example in Germany every EU citizen is welcome to reside in Germany but just has to register with the local council within 2-4 weeks! If not a 250 € fine is enforced. No ID card is issued as this is against EU law to issue 'ID cards' to EU citizens.

Malta has now realized that it has to abandon ID cards for non  - Maltese citizens. It is not a matter of EU rights ! Germany issues ID cards to it's own citizens (not residents).

How Malta deals with residency issues is a Maltese problem. There is no standard procedure in the EU.

Having said this I will let you all squabble about registering for residency or not ! The EU legal requirement is quite clear.

Forget about all the crap said about 'free movement' ... there are still national laws that apply ............especially and most of all in the UK !

Cheers
Ricky

Ricky, it's not so much the registering...Germany seem to have it sorted! Just go in and register, no hassle!

I think the problem here, is the mixing up of an ID card and residency. They (the school) is looking at the ID card as invalid proof of residency. The ID card was never proof of residency, just ID.

If the local law is saying you have to have an e-residency card as the only proof of ID and residency, then that is what is wrong.

What Byron is trying to say, is that if you are a resident, then you should have to be treated the same way as the Maltese, to provide ID and proof of address, so they are breaking EU law by saying that you HAVE to provide only the e-residency card.

coxf0001 wrote:

Thanks for the info Byron.

The problem is, when I have been mixed up in their lack of understanding of rules etc, the only one that suffers is me. I know you can complain to people but at the time they have you over a barrel. If these people are refusing to except the rules, you just stand there and what??

So you're at the school, want to start them and they say no. Yes it will get sorted, eventually, after you've paid fees, yes they will pay it back or worse still your kids don't go. What a load of hassle. It doesn't stop with schools, it's a mess everywhere.

coxf0001,

They are suffering too.

See: Investing Expatriates - iExpats:

Financial news section:

http://www.iexpats.com/expat-anger-at-p … -in-malta/

bottom line is as an EU citizen - as long as you can prove your entitlement to EU rights by any other form of documentation the e-Residency card is not required. simple really.

ricky wrote:

Hi Byron and others,

there seem to be several issues that are being folded up into this ID card/ residency issue.

Whether you like it or not the residency procedures are governed by local law and not by EU law.

For example in Germany every EU citizen is welcome to reside in Germany but just has to register with the local council within 2-4 weeks! If not a 250 € fine is enforced. No ID card is issued as this is against EU law to issue 'ID cards' to EU citizens.

Malta has now realized that it has to abandon ID cards for non  - Maltese citizens. It is not a matter of EU rights ! Germany issues ID cards to it's own citizens (not residents).

How Malta deals with residency issues is a Maltese problem. There is no standard procedure in the EU.

Having said this I will let you all squabble about registering for residency or not ! The EU legal requirement is quite clear.

Forget about all the crap said about 'free movement' ... there are still national laws that apply ............especially and most of all in the UK !

Cheers
Ricky

Spot on Ricky. 
If Malta says you need the EID to prove residency, then that's what you need.
All the rest is just hot air!

Terry

ricky wrote:

Hi Byron and others,

there seem to be several issues that are being folded up into this ID card/ residency issue.

Whether you like it or not the residency procedures are governed by local law and not by EU law.

For example in Germany every EU citizen is welcome to reside in Germany but just has to register with the local council within 2-4 weeks! If not a 250 € fine is enforced. No ID card is issued as this is against EU law to issue 'ID cards' to EU citizens.

Malta has now realized that it has to abandon ID cards for non  - Maltese citizens. It is not a matter of EU rights ! Germany issues ID cards to it's own citizens (not residents).

How Malta deals with residency issues is a Maltese problem. There is no standard procedure in the EU.

Having said this I will let you all squabble about registering for residency or not ! The EU legal requirement is quite clear.

Forget about all the crap said about 'free movement' ... there are still national laws that apply ............especially and most of all in the UK !

Cheers
Ricky

Freedom to move and live in Europe: A Guide to your rights as an EU citizen, published by the Directorate-General Justice European Commission:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/ci … nt_low.pdf

Directive 2004/38/EC:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 3Aen%3APDF

i guess sadly it comes down to who you believe - and id rather not believe the maltese government in anything.....

As already said the ID card was never a proof of residency, it was just an ID card ! And as such is was against all EU laws to have been issued to foreign citizens in the first place.

German nationals have always had the 'Personal Ausweis' which is the equivalent of the Maltese ID card for Maltese. It was never issued to foreign nationals. And that is , of course, in line with EU law.

In the UK nobody gets a ID card , neither UK nationals nor foreigners. THat is in line with EU law too !

So, to get back to Malta, those that are trying to make a residence document out of a simple ID card that was against EU law in the first place need to do their homework.

It seems that only those who did not get their correct residence document in the past or at least apply for one under the new conditions are having a problem.

And Byron, I don't see the connection to free movement and similiar regulations if you don't go with the national laws of the involved EU country. Or did I miss the fact that there is only one EU national law for all EU countries in the meantime.

Please correct me on that if I'm wrong ! Maybe I forgot to sign one of the many petitions.

Whether it is ok or not for the Maltese authorities to make an issue about schooling costs in undertermined open cases with pending residency is a different question that could have been avoided.

It seems I opened a can of fleas here -))))

Cheers
Ricky

Ricky. I think, the point to this is, if you have regestered,

by local law and you are a resident, then EU law says, that you

should be treated the same as a local, so, when applying to

schools, you should do the same as the Maltese, not have to go

to a different place to register and ONLY being allowed to

present the e-residency card. Any residency certificate (of the

host country) is

proof of residency according to EU law.

Ricky i think there are hundreds of people having problems with the e-Residency permit-irrespective of what they have or havent had or currently hold....

the whole thing is an ill-conceived badly planned shambles. and no signs of improvement

i also seems to me that nobody knows what they should or shouldnt accept as documentation for all manner of things as it seems to change from one dept to another and from one person to another....as i said SHAMBLES

ricky wrote:

Whether it is ok or not for the Maltese authorities to make an issue about schooling costs in undertermined open cases with pending residency is a different question that could have been avoided.

It seems I opened a can of fleas here -))))

Cheers
Ricky

This is another thing. EU law says you should be issued with a residency certificate on the same day as applying in one, single visit.....This would solve all the problems!!!

Hi Caroline,

of course everything is in a shambles ! -))) I can understand the problems for newly arrived Expats because of the incredible waiting time but you moved to Malta many years ago. You have your residency documents anyway, or don't you ?

And,under EU law, you don't have to apply for residency. You just register.

I guess that is why it works in Germany -))) No cards - no hassle.

I'm just pointing my finger at those who  have caused the breakdown of the system - those that never considered registering for residency in the past, although legally obliged. Any now realize that they will have to. And believe me , I know a lot-)))

Cheers
Ricky

i dont think its them at all - most had their own reasons for not doing so and those reasons are still valid now - IMHO those who didnt do it the first time in all likely hood wont do it now.... after all for them there is no real advantage, they will have been paying the higher rates for utils anyway and its only the buses....but i guess the extra they would pay for that is a lot lower than what they might lose if they were to "go legit"

and believe me  i know a lot of them too

ricky wrote:

I'm just pointing my finger at those who  have caused the breakdown of the system - those that never considered registering for residency in the past, although legally obliged. Any now realize that they will have to. And believe me , I know a lot-)))

Cheers
Ricky

Yes, there are loads! I am resident but my children aren't. I guess it's a touchy subject for me.
I tried to apply when I arrived, 9 years ago. The ex pat division said I didn't need to, so I didn't (mind you, they have the filled out forms!)
It wasn't until years later (kids born here, accepted at school,) that I went to register for work (after my husband left.) I was told, as I have kids and that childcare and working isn't the best option, that I should get Social Assistance. That was the advice of the area manager of Social Security. After a while, it stopped, as after their 7 year clause, they realised I should be a resident!
Dispite being here over 5 years, I could not become resident, as I had claimed Social Assistance! I was told I should have registered for work, which I tried!
As a direct result, we became homeless. The UK couldn't help, the EU/Brussels couldn't help, I was stranded because I had done what I was told!
As soon as I got a job I applied for permenant residency but not my kids, as I don't have passports for them!
I guess I just get wound up, trying to do what I am told to do and still getting it wrong, at my expense!

Hi toon ,

we agree ! Whow.

Actually I do know a lot who did it just for cheap bus tickets and got away with avoiding health insurance proof by not applying for residence.! Not talking about taxes or other issues.

Malta would have done well to issue the e-residence cards to those residence card holders from past automatically and just processed new non-ID card holders fast leaving out all 'old' ID card holders without residency.

My humble opinion but now it is too late -)))

Cheers
Ricky

i think i disagreed as its not those people who caused the problem - the government caused the problem by implementing an ill conceived system, badly planned badly managed with a disgraceful lack of public communication and incredibly understaffed not to mention undertrained, on top of that they changed the system and the operational depts. Those who had residency already probably panicked and tried to get in first as they always want to be legit - those that you were eluding too wouldnt and didnt give a toss with the odd exceptions - so dont get carried away ricky.. but we eventually go on the same track but not on the same train.

Hi Caroline,

sorry to hear about your personal problems and so I can understand the issue for you.

Just one question , why don't you have passports for your children? That is of course a major issue. Is there a child care issue involved ? That would complicate things.

Of course any form of residency implies that you do not apply for Social Assistance, that is a pre-requisite to be allowed to stay in Malta.

I presume you are talking about ordinary residency and not permanent residency as otherwise different rules apply!

Cheers
Ricky

Hi toon,

great.

How about the parallel track in the same direction with different trains ? Wouldn't want to have a collision going on the same track -)))

Have a nice weekend.
Ricky

ok you can be on the left track and i will be on the right track lol :-)

ricky wrote:

Hi Caroline,

sorry to hear about your personal problems and so I can understand the issue for you.

Just one question , why don't you have passports for your children? That is of course a major issue. Is there a child care issue involved ? That would complicate things.

Of course any form of residency implies that you do not apply for Social Assistance, that is a pre-requisite to be allowed to stay in Malta.

I presume you are talking about ordinary residency and not permanent residency as otherwise different rules apply!

Cheers
Ricky

Hi Ricky,

Yes, I am aware now about the Social Assistance, at the time, I just took the advice of the officials, I didn't think to question it. I had worked here, paid NI and Tax, so really didn't investigate any further.
As for the passports, 2 of my children were born here, we've never left, so never got one.
From what I can gather on the EU information sites. You only need a valid passport up to 3 months of entry to an EU country, nothing is said about passports after 3 months and resident?
I have written, under Byron's advice, to the guy in charge of e-residency complaints but have not received a reply yet.

Caroline

Hi Caroline,

the citizenship of your children is a complicated question.

It depends on the nationality of yourself and the father. To enter any other country you will need a valid travel document for your children ie passport or Maltese ID card if they are Maltese.

You will have to sort out the citizenship of your kids and get documents for them.

If you and they are British you can apply for passports through the British Embassy in Paris

Cheers
Ricky