General advices on my first time abroad

5POSTS

10 years ago

Hello everyone. Name's Daniel, I'm 20 and looking forward to live in Indonesia, more specifically Surabaya (if possible, if not then somewhere nearby). English is not my maternal language but I am hopping to find a job as an English teacher, both because I've got some (informal) experience in lecturing and because the pay is quite good, though perhaps it isn't as good since I don't have any kind of formal graduation and wasn't born in one of the 5 countries apparently required for getting a job in some of the top schools there.

Anyways... I got a few questions I couldn't find answered anywhere else, so I'll bother you for a bit.

First: How come there are so many native English speakers who start teaching as soon as they get in Indonesia without any knowledge whatsoever of the language spoken there? I mean, how can you teach someone some other language if you can't communicate with them using their own? lol

Second: How can I get in touch with the places/schools over there? In order to get the visa and all the required paperwork I mean... and just how hard it is to find a job over there?

Third: I've heard the living cost there is actually pretty low but just how low is it? I've heard that if you make about 2000$/month you can live like high class over there... is that true?

Fourth: Well, pretty much anything else you think might help me a bit.

Thanks, I'll wait for your replies.

See also

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First time visiting Jakarta, Indonesia - 7 Replies
First time visitor to Bali (Seminyak?) - 9 Replies

melmelly New member

4POSTS

10 years ago

Hi Daniel

From all those questions, i just wanna offer you a hand for learning bahasa indonesia, I think it will be easy for you because it's phonetic language " what you see is what you read"

no need to conjugate the verb, but you need to remember some suffix to change the meaning...
so if you're interested, you can contact me..

tchau
Mel

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

10 years ago

I hate to bust your bubble Daniel, but unless you are a native born English speaker and credentialed as a teacher, your chances of finding a job teaching English here is slim to none.

The competition for these jobs is fierce...and with more than amply qualified applicants.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

10 years ago

Ubudian's post is correct.

The government's requirements for foreign English teachers include being a fully qualified native speaker.

That means your chances of legal work are zero.

enduringword Guest

0POSTS

10 years ago

I think the problem you are making is limiting yourself to the job as an English teacher. You are best to evaluate your choices to work or not to work, after making a trip here.

But if you are short of funds, and in need of work to support your travelling. Thailand is better than Indonesia in that respect.

Regarding costs of living, it all depends on your lifestyle. 2000 Usd is alot to most average workers here. But if you eat out like a tourist and spend like an expat, then your money wont last for long. And you wont be able to save. Really depends on your goals.

In regards to your question on the popularity of native speakers even without knowledge of the local language. It is true and common practise. It has to do more about "perception that native speaker is better or more elite".

However, I always believe that for beginners, a qualified local would be better. For advanced learners, then a native speaker who are not fluent in the local language wont matter much.

I am fluent in 4 languages and learning languages comes easy to me. I could probably teach English better than a native speaker. But unfortunately, I wont be selected to do so, even If I want to apply as one. That is reality in most countries. Not just in Indonesia.

Noteworthy though, if you look "bule" or foreign caucasian enough. Nationalities dont matter. You might fit in the image, as long as your accent works - British or American or even Australian.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

10 years ago

"I think the problem you are making is limiting yourself to the job as an English teacher."

What other jobs in Indonesia can a westerner or citizen of a non ASEAN member country even think of?

Without highly specific qualifications, experience, and knowledge...such as not available in the current job seeking pool of Indonesian or ASEAN citizens, it's hopeless.

Moreover, shouldn't jobs in Indonesia be first for Indonesians?

I sure think so.

enduringword Guest

0POSTS

10 years ago

Ubudian wrote:
"I think the problem you are making is limiting yourself to the job as an English teacher."

What other jobs in Indonesia can a westerner or citizen of a non ASEAN member country even think of?

Without highly specific qualifications, experience, and knowledge...such as not available in the current job seeking pool of Indonesian or ASEAN citizens, it's hopeless.

Moreover, shouldn't jobs in Indonesia be first for Indonesians?

I sure think so.

I am actually advocating for people from other countries to visit as travellers or tourists first. It doesnt take much money to travel nowadays. And cost of living in Indonesia is really cheap in comparison.

What better time to travel than now.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

10 years ago

Travel...fine. Look for a job? Not so fine.

As the tee shirt from one of the most famous eateries on Bali puts it (punning on the book/movie, Eat Pray, Love)...Eat, Pay, Leave.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

10 years ago

Roy is absolutely correct, without a skill set that an Indonesian worker can't fulfil, his chances of a legal job are very limited.
Illegal work is a very bad idea as the penalties can be harsh.

enduringword Guest

0POSTS

10 years ago

#10

Regarding jobs.
MEA (Masyarakat Ekonomi Asean) and Asean openess is happening. I dont think it will matter more and more who is recruited and going to be employed in the long term down the track in 5 to 10 years time.

I see myself as a global citizen. I am not into those protectionist or crappy ideas that Indonesian must get jobs.
It all comes down into merits in jobs. Competition and open job sector leads to efficiency and deregulation. A better economy and a better country as a big picture. There are always pro and cons.

As a family group, we employ thousands of employees. We already seeing costs goes up, everything goes up, while productivity and performance doesnt.
Many manufacturing are already restructuring. And it doesnt look good in the short term.
Let me say that 2016 is still a depressing year for global economy.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

10 years ago

#11

enduringword wrote:
I am actually advocating for people from other countries to visit as travellers or tourists first. It doesnt take much money to travel nowadays. And cost of living in Indonesia is really cheap in comparison.

What better time to travel than now.

I strongly recommend travellers visit Indonesia, even if they have a long term stay in mind.
There's nothing to say you can't look for work whilst on a tourist visa, just not do any.
If a legal option presents itself to the OP, I'd suggest he go for it.

However, his chances of such aren't great.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

10 years ago

#12

The odd post is heading towards the political.
Perhaps ideals are not a good idea on this forum.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

10 years ago

#13

"I see myself as a global citizen. I am not into those protectionist or crappy ideas that Indonesian must get jobs."

As an Indonesian citizen and father of three sons (obviously also Indonesian), I totally disagree.

Indonesia...its resources, its jobs and opportunities must, by all means, be first and foremost the rights of Indonesians.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

10 years ago

#14

Ideals and preferences are as unhelpful to the OP as they aren't going to change Indonesian law.
It hardly matters what we say, this country still won't easily accept to OP as a worker here.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

10 years ago

#15

Good on you Fred...you avoided the word "politics."

Message received!

Daniel Mennz New member

5POSTS

10 years ago

#16

I see what you all mean. Thanks for replying, I didn't think anyone would answer me so soon. lol

Anyway, is there any kind of certificate I can get to improve my chances of getting a job as an English teacher there? Like TOEFL or something?
I did some research and indeed Indonesians are always first when it comes to regular jobs there, as it would be more practical and less bureaucratic than employing a foreigner.

I really don't need to make much there as I intend to stay for about 5 years then return home, personal reasons. Just enough to rent a decent place and don't starve.

I'm just wondering now if there's anything at all I can do to get a job as a teacher there. I'm not a native speaker, sure, but there must be something I can do to get a certificate in a short time? haha

Thanks you all.

enduringword Guest

0POSTS

10 years ago

#17

Daniel, if I were in your position then I'd consider getting a teaching job in any country in Asia, not just in Indonesia. The requirements might be easier in other countries and I do not know why you choose Indonesia. Perhaps do your one month TEFL course and get the certificate first and then start looking for jobs. Less developed countries than Indonesia may be easier to find a job.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

10 years ago

#18

A TEFL certificate is useless on its own as Indonesian law requires you to hold a degree in the appropriate subject and have five years experience, as well as being a native speaker.
I can see why the idea is appealing, but it must remain a dream.

enduringword Guest

0POSTS

10 years ago

#19

Yes if the OP is insistent on only working in Indonesia you are right Fred. That's why I suggest he considers other countries in Asia. However, the chances of getting a job anywhere needs that first step of having the certificate. I mean, if he gets the certificate then he will stand a better chance of finding a job as an English Teacher. Without it he will have virtually zero chance.

enduringword Guest

0POSTS

10 years ago

#20

Fred wrote:
A TEFL certificate is useless on its own as Indonesian law requires you to hold a degree in the appropriate subject and have five years experience, as well as being a native speaker.
I can see why the idea is appealing, but it must remain a dream.

Just out of curiosity Fred, does that mean that all English Teachers in Indonesia have a Degree in English Language as well as a TEFL Certificate? So for English teaching jobs with the British Council or EF in Indonesia, the first requirement is that the applicant must have a Degree in English Language, the second being a TEFL Cert?

I actually wasn't aware of that little piece of information. If that really is the case then the OP really should be looking in other countries for a teaching job.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

10 years ago

#21

Probably.
I'm commonly told China tends to break its own rules, but I can't be sure as to the validity of what I've been assured is true.
Perhaps a thread in the China forum if that country is of interest to the OP.

Daniel Mennz New member

5POSTS

10 years ago

#22

Well, it really has to be Indonesia as I'll need to be in contact with someone over there on a regular basis. It's complicated to explain all the details.

I've heard that some schools tends to break some bureaucracy since they lack English teachers at all.

I actually never heard of this TEFL certificate. I'll look into it. But, perhaps more importantly, is there any way I can get in contact with a school over there to check this out? I dunno, I believe it's worth trying talking to someone over there first and see if they'll agree to hire me without this 5 years experience requirement, even if it means they'll cut my wage in half or something.

Thanks again for being patient with me... I'm totally lost here. haha

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

10 years ago

#23

No worries, we all try to reach our goals.

The requirements are laid down by the government, so there's no chance at all of getting a legal job.
Illegal work is probably available (I've been offered and turned down plenty), but the fines, possible prison time and deportation at your own cost makes that a very bad idea.

If you're on a spouse sponsored KITAS, the authorities tend to ignore the odd day at a school, but regular work is going to attract unwelcome attention.

Daniel Mennz New member

5POSTS

10 years ago

#24

I was hopping that I could somehow cheat the system. haha... I dunno... private lecturing, maybe? If there's absolutely no chance at all of me getting a job there, then what are the chances of finding one in a nearby country? Preferably as an English teacher as well.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

10 years ago

#25

Daniel, it is in some ways a “curse” to fall in love with Indonesia at a young age and at the start of one’s career and wealth building.

Without question, Indonesia is “the land of opportunity” and the siren songs that emanate from here are loud, and addictive.

For young foreigners, the best opportunities here are for those who seek to build a business and to invest both themselves, and their money into this country. And, there are a large number of young expats who have done exactly that.

I agree with others in that you should hold on to your dreams, if in fact life in Indonesia is what you seek, but at the same time, you need to modify those dreams to fit into the practicality and possibility of realizing those dreams.

You can't "cheat the system" and get away with that for very long. Once caught, (and being caught is inevitable) the consequences are very severe.

Cheers, and good luck to you!