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Safety in Indonesia

Christine
#1
Hi,

We would like to talk about a sensitive but important topic: do you feel safe in Indonesia?

How would you define the level of safety in the country?

Can you walk safely during the day and at night without any fear?

Do you think there is a high rate of criminality, social problems or tensions?

Share with us your insight on safety in Indonesia and in the city you live in.

Thank you in advance,

Christine
See also
Fred
#2
I've lived in three areas, all very different.

My first was a tiny village where crime was almost nothing. The worst cases were a wife beater (No one would talk to that useless little excuse for a man), a motorcycle thief, and a chicken thief.

The former was just about tolerated, but only just and there was a village meeting to decide if he would be allowed to live there. He was extremely lucky to get back.

The second was totally nuts, the cops were after him for ages, he even threatened to kill his own dad. Very rare here.

The chicken thief was interesting.
The victim gave the thief a chance, telling him he must clean the mosque every day for a month, and do the call to prayer five times every day, then it would be forgotten.
He failed on the first day so got a beating from his victim.

My second area was a medium size town, Purwokerto in Central Java.
The crime was mainly prostitutes and ladyboys, There some people robbed in that area, but only their customers, not the general public.

I'm in South Tangerang now, basically a suburb of Jakarta, and there is crime here.
Most is motorbike theft, but there is a level of violent crime as well. An incident in February hit the papers when a motorbike thief attacked his victim with a sword. Of the four gang members, the swordsman was the only one captured by the angry mob; he was killed.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015 … alive.html

The police, unusual as it is, decided to investigate the murder, but I don't believe they actually got round to asking any questions or anything.
They did initiate a shoot on sight policy for bike thieves.

There is violent crime here, but only in dodgy areas, and only at night.

There are two groups you do need to be careful of.
Both are extreme nationalists, and both are religious extremists. These groups are basically a rent a mob lot, but are known for violence against anyone they see as being against their version of Islam. That usually translates to smashing up a place that sells beer, or blockading a church until a bribe is paid.
There are of little concern to most people, and are very much restricted since one group was implicated in the murder of two policemen. The cops were inclined to clamp down a lot after that, and did. 

There are terrorists in Indonesia, but they've been hit a lot since they started attacking the police a few years ago, and caused Manchester united to cancel a visit after a hotel bomb.
These upset all the worst people to upset, so loads of terrorists were killed in a very public way, the police being sure to inform the press when a suspect was cornered, likely to be shot whilst resisting arrest.
The survivors are still around, and extremism is there, but they've been forced to be very quiet.

There is a minor drug problem here, so a minor level of drug related crime. That's a big help to general safety.

In general, Indonesia is a very safe country to live in - just stay away from bad areas at night.
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Indonesia
Ubudian
#3
In my neck of the woods, which is Ubud, Bali, I’ve never felt more safe in my entire life. 

Pak Fred, in his post above, speaks of Jakarata, which to put into perspective, would be like comparing New York City to Maui in the US. 

Overall, when tracked for crime and violent crime, Indonesia (country wide) is rated as among the top 1/3 “safest” countries in the world.
Fred
#4
I an disturbed, upset and angry to report this issue.
It seems our peace is being disturbed by the idiot end of Islam, who are popping low powered bombs in shopping malls, I assume in an attempt to disrupt western style or based targets.

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/n … errorists/

Jakarta. Indonesian police have blamed Islamist radicals for a low-powered explosive that detonated in the toilet of a mall on the outskirts of Jakarta on Thursday that mirrored a blast at another mall in February.

CCTV footage showed a man walking into the toilet at the ground floor of the Alam Sutera mall, on the western outskirts of the capital, carrying a bag and exiting shortly before the blast occurred.

“We’ve got the CCTV [recording] and also an idea [of who the suspect might be],” Insp. Gen. Tito Karnavian, the chief of the Jakarta Police, told reporters on Saturday. “But we can’t disclose any more information pending the investigation.”

Tito, who previously headed the police’s elite counterterrorism unit, Densus 88, said it was likely that radicals linked to the Islamic State were behind the blast, in which no one was injured.


Hopefully the police will catch and kill these fools before they hurt anyone.

S
#5
Indonesia can indeed be a very dangerous place to live. Better to remain humble, keep a low profile and don't go to bars.
lukereg
#6
In the 7 years I have lived here I have been pickpocketed on a bus, seen friends attacked in the street, had motorbike helmets stolen from secure parking, watched bags snatched from unsuspecting passengers on motorbikes, offered girls, boys, drugs while on holiday. All of which is petty low level stuff, however it annoys. I also have had my house broken into and everything I held dear stolen including wedding rings, clothes and other things we had got ready (this was a month or so before I got married) to which the police were of no help nor tried to be.
However, despite the amount of crime going on around me I have never felt unsafe in the streets or at night and I have been to some places I should have not been too and dark places they were too and did not feel threatened but not welcome.
I feel Indonesia is a safe place to be as there is less alcohol driven crime and less aggravated crime in the streets which is good but I don't believe that this is from good policing rather well controlled neighbourhoods and communities.
Like everywhere else there are terrorists and haters of all things different to what they know however I know at 11.30pm on a Friday night I could walk through the city and not have to deal with any conflict or aggressive people like back home.
Last time I was in Ubud I was chased by some ducks for being near a rice field. Not sure if the ducks were acting as security or wanted to steal my egg sandwich but that field was left undisturbed that day.
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Fred
#7

saintjean wrote:

Indonesia can indeed be a very dangerous place to live. Better to remain humble, keep a low profile and don't go to bars.


I disagree.
I don't drink, nor do I like bars and what goes on in many of them, but I don't especially object to others doing it.
Indonesia is still generally very safe, but these few extremists can cause problems for everyone.

I just wish they'd serve Allah by doing charity work, anything but being stupid and creating even more pain and misery than there already is in the world.
They make me angry because, apart from all the misery they cause, they wipe Islam in the dirt, and damage my lovely Indonesia.

I will stop ranting at this point.

lukereg
#8
When you see locals walking down the street carrying machetes and chain at 2am clearly they are not off to collect firewood, that's not a good time to be seen. Bars are dangerous but only through drunken fighting amongst the patrons.
The worst kind of fear spreading anti happy behaviour is by those with closed minds and open mouths and for now Indonesia seems to be nurturing that in too many places.
Fred
#9
I had a machete with me last week - a big one.
It's pretty common here, but the chain would beg a couple of questions.
S
#10
Well, I am not an expert so probably as you say Indonesia is a very safe country.
happyhour
#11
I would not say "very safe"......but things always can happening in each part of the world
1 member reacted to this post
BaliBruce
#12
Hi all,

I have lived in Ubud for the last 13 years!  And I USED to feel 110% safe anywhere in Bali.  But, I am a big guy and hardly feel unsafe anywhere, plus I don't go to bars, etc.

But it is the safety of my wife and other women that has me worried.  We live in Ubud and I worry about ANY woman out after 10PM at night.  I have just heard SO many horror stories of molestations, robberies, motorbike attacks, etc. even up here in Ubud. 

I USED to live in Penestanan and still have many expat and local friends there.  I was speaking to a local friend there recently about all the attacks in his part of town and how that affects restaurants, hotels, villas, etc there.  In the past the banjar seemed to be the central force to protect a village.  No longer. 

Since we know that the police are basically powerless to do anything about these crime problems, I had the following suggestion:
1. he or the banjar should contact ALL the local (in his area) restaurants, hotels, villas, and other places that are tourist oriented
2. ask them for some money.  Perhaps 500,000 per month or more depending on the value of the business/property. 
3. THEN take that money to the police and tell them that they will get this money every month IF they cruise that area 2-4 times a day, or more, including several times at night.
4. put up signs on every road that comes into that area that says in Indonesian "This area patrolled by local police and the banjar EVERY night"

I think if crooks did not know if or where or when the police/banjar would come cruising by, they would not pick THAT area to steal/rob/molest/etc.!

Just my idea to lower the crime rate on women and make Ubud and, perhaps Bali, go back to being a VERY safe to be for everyone.

Bruce
S
#13
Everyone speaking from personal experience and it would take just one really bad experience to make us completely change our minds about how safe Indonesia really is. Above I read that Ubud is very safe, but now I read that it is not safe from someone who has lived in Ubud for 13 years. Even for one town in Bali I hear two opposite opinions.
malinkijan
#14
I stay since more then a year in Bali, first in Jimbaran and now in Prerenan. Due to work I travel a lot within Papua etc. I feel myself safe in Bali to be honest. I assume it has to do that I am just behaving regular. I don't wear any expensive brand clothes, I keep my pilot watch at home and just use a regular watch when I go out. I also hear all this story's of "bules" getting pushed from there bike or there bags stolen. Until now I didn't meet anybody who actually experienced this kind of crime. At the end of the day, we are guests in Indonesia. And like in many other countries, if you walk late in the evening with all your bling bling golden silver neckless etc in the wrong area, shit may happen. But if you just live a normal and easy life and respect them (not believing you are higher and better then the locals) then I am sure little things will happen to you.

For me, I feel myself safe at anytime driving my bike or walking around. Until now the only people that cheated me and did steel from me where bule.

So therefore, in Bali, when you behave you are safe in my opinion. I think this safety issue that is discussed so many times in the social media may exist but I am also sure its getting pushed up.
Ubudian
#15
An excellent post IMHO, and a very accurate portrayal of my own 24/7 experience of life on Bali these past 17 years.

In my village I’ve only seen a police car once in all those years and that was to verify that a hanging death was indeed a suicide and not a staged murder. 

As you say, a little common sense goes a long way here.

Cheers!   :top:
S
#16
Thanks for the clarification, and it is good to know that Bali is a safe place to visit.
Fred
#17
To Bali.
We commonly hear about Australian drunks being a serious problem.
Is this true at all, limited a one area, blown up way past the truth, or a total lie?
lukereg
#18
True in Kuta and Legian as that's where they party. Elsewhere the families are just families.
S
#19
living in Jakarta for the last 3 years, and for 18 years ( 20 years ago ) not much is changed. If you looking for " fun " in bars, cewe etc, the " fun " starts mostly between 11 pm and deep in the morning, and automatically you will be a subject to people who think they can cheat and rob you, exsp. if alcohol involved. This is in any bit city worldwide the same, living in Washington dc, or Balimore, you need to avoid some neighbourhoods, if not, it will cost you your life, so nothing special. Any big city with lots of entertainment in certain places all the same. If behaving normal, not sombong, don't were gold everywhere you can, watch your wallet and money ( like everywhere else) you will be okay. Be carefull in public places, busses, trains, and public markets, where the risc is bigger. Living in a neighbourhood where everyone respects you, and knows you, is a great advantages, be the RT friend, act as a normal person, respect is a big thing here in Indonesia, then you r safe. In my situation its easy, neighbourhood okay, I drive a car, go shopping in supermarkets, but sometimes to public markets, dress like " poor man " don't were expensive things ( a fake rolex of 30 dollars could cause you problems :) ), and speak the language, avoid certain places after dark, entertain at home, or hotels, and like everywhere else you will and be safe. Ofcourse its not a quaranty like anywhere else, but this guideline will get the max out of this subject. If using public transportation, motorcycles, traveling at night not in cars, will make the risc that something will happen greater, visiting certain entertainment places also, so if you want to go out in lower class joints, or neighbourhoods go with a group, safer. Basicly just what I said before, if avoiding certain hours, neighbourhoods in Jakarta, its the same safety level as Brisbane, New York, Amsterdam, or Jakarta, simple.
1 member reacted to this post
1st.bass
#20
I live in Surabaya, East Java.  At approximately 4 million people, it's the second largest city in the country.  I've been here for 7 years and have travelled all over the country during that time.  I'm a male in my mid 30's and can say that I've never at all felt threatened or in danger in any way from people - and I've been to some pretty shady local bars late at night, both with friends and just going around all over the country alone.  Coming from Brooklyn New York, I actually feel much safer here than back home.  People don't have guns here for one thing (even most of the cops). In all my time here, I've never seen a real fight.  I've seen guys argue and maybe push each other a bit, but people here just aren't as violent as they are in the states.  What you have to watch out for is people scamming you.  People will rip you off here, but with a smile on their face after having earned your trust, not through violence.  You will most certainly hear of a few stories of a violent crime happening here, but it's not a trend - it just almost never happens.
What is dangerous here is the traffic.  There are around 45,000 reported traffic related deaths per year in this city alone.  Even being used to New York traffic will not totally prepare you for the monster that is traffic in a crowded south East Asian country.  I've lost track of the foreigners that I've met here who have died driving a motorbike in traffic.  I do it, but I've had years of experience driving a motorcycle in traffic.  Too many westerners here drive bikes with little or no experience and are wholly unprepared for it.
Another danger is infection and mosquito related diseases, but if your house/apartment is clean and you don't live in an area with an open gutter outside, there aren't that many Mosquitos actually.
Overall, people are tremendously friendly and helpful here and will make every effort to try to communicate with you and get to know you, which may seem a bit intrusive to some foreigners at first.
But at the end of the day, it is a developing country with millions of poor people, so I imagine if you were foolish enough to walk through the ghetto or poor rural village overly dressed up and flaunting your Gucci bag and expensive jewelry, someone may try to take it from you.  But my experiences in getting lost and accidentally winding up in those kinds of areas has always been good.  Kids run up and gawk at you and giggle and you get a lot of looks, but once you smile and try to talk to people, they're extremely friendly and welcoming.  Don't be surprised by the number of people who randomly ask if they can take a photo with you. 
One bit of closing advice to anyone moving or traveling here: Making even the smallest attempt to speak the language here goes a long way.
1 member reacted to this post
S
#21
You said it all my friend :) exactly to the point....
been to Brooklyn also years ago, comes a guy in the bar at 2 am, with a loaded gun and says " I am looking for John, pointing his gun to the crowd and us..... " on which the barkeeper said " I did not see him tonight " ,  the guys tells " okay will look for him later " ..mm great experience, did not see that yet in here :) Its indeed what you saying, show respect, be friendly and you will be okay most of the times. The locals if alone are cowards only in big groups they have gutz, but for both groups y have to be carefull, alone, he will lie and rip you off if possible, if in a crowd they can beat you up :) in my place if you get caught stealing a tv or something or a bike from the neighbourhood, you will not make it to the guarded post seen it happen, you will be lucky if not ending at the morque by the locals, so its the lawy of self justice, which I do not support, but it helps a lot in here.
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S
#22
It is very nice to hear. Yes I agree.
Ubudian
#23
Fred asks, "We commonly hear about Australian drunks being a serious problem.
Is this true at all, limited a one area, blown up way past the truth, or a total lie?"

It's true, but they are only a problem among themselves (bar fights) and limited to Kuta and Legian as Luke mentioned.  Both areas are “party town” and coming to Bali to party is still cheaper for Australians than vacationing at home.   

1st bass also mentioned skeeter related disease and motor bike accidents.  These are also concerns in Bali…no malaria but dengue is a problem and to be honest, I would say around half my friends have had a run in with dengue at one point or another.  Bali traffic is notorious down south, and in less crowded areas it's the condition of the roads that lead to lots of bike accidents.   

Great to see some new members posting!   :top:

Cheers all!
Fred
#24

Great to see some new members posting!


Absolutely yes.
I'm pleased to see new people arriving, and take this opportunity to welcome them to the forum.

As for motorbike accidents - that's true in every part of Indonesia I've been to. The poor training and total lack of interest in discipline is a killer - literally.
The roads are easily the most dangerous thing in Indonesia, and the most likely place for expats to have problems - I speak from bitter experience.
A new expat just isn't aware of the incredibly terrible standards on the roads and, as in my case, I thought I'd seen every daft trick possible, then someone came up with a totally new one, sending me spinning down the road on my arse.
I tend to assume the road user near me is going to steam through the red light and blast past a truck, intent on knocking me directly to hospital, so I manage to avoid most now.
The last couple got a shock - my weight Vs. theirs leaves me the winner when they side swipe me, so they bounce off. The last car to overtake and turn left before he'd cleared me lost his wing mirror as cut me off, but I managed to stay upright.
Do what I've just done in the car - install a cheap dashcam. It cost Rp130,000, isn't great quality, but easily good enough to show fault - or you didn't cut lanes when the nice policeman says you did.

S
#25
The dashcam is a good idea. I apparently went through a red light the other day and was stopped and the policeman demanded Rp500,000 in cash or else go to court 10am on Friday. The cam would have shown that the traffic lights were not working.
lukereg
#26
You should choose court and demand a receipt for anything you hand the police. Especially if its cash. They don't like that. The court option really annoys them as they think the threat of  it is enough to scare people into handing over cash
And of course don't speak indonesian and cry and shriek in your native language but do it outside the car so people can see. If that fails then take the court option.
S
#27
Yes I pretended to speak not Indonesian and asked my Indonesian family to wait in the car. Then after the policeman asked for the money I went back to the car to explain everything to my father in law. My father in law called his friend who is somebody senior in the traffic police and handed his phone to the policeman. Then he gave me back my license and said I can go. My father in law also told me that the policeman should have gave me a warning because I had an international driving license and he should not ask for money. He also said the policeman is lucky because sometimes they can get called back to base and get severe trouble.
Ubudian
#28
Not to justify police corruption I can at least give a reason why in Bali (where 99% of the police are Balinese), there is a lot more of it at specific times of the year, like right now, just prior to the Galungan and Kuningan holiday.  Galungan is the day after tomorrow, Wednesday, and Kuningan 10 days later. 

These are the highest holidays for the Balinese, and they are somewhat costly holidays, thus the incentive to look for some additional cash.  And, truth be told, the police here are not well paid. 

Once again...I'm not offering a justification, rather, just an explanation. 

Cheers!
Fred
#29
I bought the cam from jakartanotbook.com

The prices vary from week to week, but they're commonly cheaper than most other shops I've found.
I bought

http://www.jakartanotebook.com/vehicle- … 98hd-black

but the price is higher at the moment. It might very well be cheaper again next week.
Others

http://www.jakartanotebook.com/baco-veh … 6000-blackhttp://www.jakartanotebook.com/baco-veh … c600-black

Even at the higher prices, they're still a lot cheaper than a 'fine' for something you didn't do, but you'll probably have to supply your own SD card.

Safer - yes.

(PS - I have no financial interest in that shop - I'm just a geek)
Fred
#30

Once again...I'm not offering a justification, rather, just an explanation.


Whilst this is clearly illegal, I find it hard to object too much for the reasons you've given.
However, I strongly object to absolute rip off. One just south of Trisakti university stops you for cutting lanes, regardless of you cutting lanes or not. That junction is the main reason I got the cam as I've been stopped there before and I use that road a two or three times a month. They'll be stuffed if they try that again.

Ubudian
#31
My view, and this is my own personal view (albeit shared by many expats here on Bali), is that if you are stopped by the police for some sort of traffic violation, and in fact you were at fault, then negotiate a “fine” with the cop and pay the agreed amount.  Taking the court route will only end up being a monumental waste of time, and almost surely wind up costing more anyway.

If you think about it along the lines of “an expedited judicial process” then it can start to make some sense.
S
#32
If the police were not corrupt then we would have to pay more money in fines. It is the same in some government departments, we can save a lot of time to make things happen faster by paying some small money. That is why many people like corruption.
S
#33
well heck yes, its is a good investment to install a dash cam, you could have your money returned on a single transaction always nice to tell mr police officer that everything he and you did is recorded, and you can lie a bit, tell him its already on the server, so y don't give him her  reason to confiscate your dash cam, you never know, well its saved my friend a lot of money in the immigration office, where they were demanding a lot of money for a " normal services " so after recording it, my friend sent it to the Police and KPK office, end of story, no more problems, and the guy wasn't there anymore the next time, either fired, or transferred so, it does sometimes helps if you have " proof " different then " their " proof. I myself have also an invisible recording aps on my adroid, so if needed , I activate it, to save all the nice words from certain people.
Fred
#34
My watch is connected to my phone, so I can record directly to the phone from it with just a couple of button presses.
I haven't had need to use that other than for voice notes, but it wouldn't hurt if I came across a dodgy situation.

It seems, from the answers on this thread, expats feel the greatest likely danger they're concerned about is a cop with an on the spot 'fine'.
Much as that isn't good, it shows experienced expats feel generally safe in Indonesia.
S
#35
yes the experienced expat know and understand the " rules " that's why they feel safe. Its like everywhere else the same, try to speak the language, and not if some law is changing jump of to some schools to learn Bahassa if you here a couple of years, its meeting and talking to the people which gives you more info than any cop, teacher, or official.
Fred
#36

yes the experienced expat know and understand the " rules " that's why they feel safe


and are passing their experience on to new people via this forum.
Exactly what the forum is supposed to do.

Excellent stuff

S
#37
Really it's the same as most every other country, just use common sense and don't annoy the local people. Be friendly and mix with the local people and be a good muslim or whatever your religion. When comparing to the news in the west, I see child kidnappings, shootings, murders, police misconduct, corruption in government, rapes and everything else bad. I see this more and more, so even if Indonesia can be a dangerous place, it is still just as safe as most any other place.
S
#38
Being a part of our own local community, now a good time to be generous. We drive around giving money packets to old people who still have to work, food packages to the poor in villages and hampers to orphanages. We don't give money to beggars though. Integration in the community is a good thing and can increase our safety.
1 member reacted to this post
Ezc
#39
I have two different view points:
1)  I was walking on Cikini Road at about sundown and a young motorcyclist  came up and ripped the necklace off my neck.  I am lucky that the chain was relatively thin and they took the pendant that was not worth much but had a 30 year sentimental value :(
2)  I was travelling from Cikini to Plaza Indonesia in a Bajaj.  When I got out at Plaza Indonesia I did not realize that when I paid my main wallet dropped on the floor of the Bajaj.  Later when I got home I realized what had happened and was facing the fact that I would have to contact all my credit card companies to change everything.  I got a call from the driver (who had found my card, several, in my wallet) and he said he did not have the fuel to come back to give me my bag that he had found on the floor of his Bajaj.  The next day he came back and EVERYTHING was still in my bag, credit cards, cash and other info.  THIS IS A TRUE HERO AND AN HONEST PERSON even when these people often have nothing!!!  Please reward these people well, when I offered him 3mil he would not accept it, but I insisted, because these people live with great economic pressure, but still keep their integrity!!  I love the Indonesian People!!!
2 members reacted to this post
S
#40
nice story, yes, i think you met one of the few honest people, and yes  they still here, but i am sure it has to do also a lot with the Ramadan months, and he was afraid, so your luck, it will not happen again believe me :)

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