Electrical wiring products and building materials

darrenhp65 wrote:

Hi, I've just bought a house in Hungary that requires complete refurbishment. I'm an electrician by trade and will be rewiring the house. Does anyone know where I could buy building products and electrical cable/switches and sockets from?

Bauhaus, OBI, Praktiker and a host of others but they can be a bit noddy and not great on prices. 

Bauhaus is probably the best one but even they are pretty stupid - I was there today, bought 16mm studding, tried to buy 16mm Nyloc nuts but they don't sell them.  I have to do a special trip to another general hardware shop to get them.  It's lack of joined up thinking here which is bit annoying.

Electrically, as you will be aware, things are not the same as say in England so it'll be a bit of a learning curve but not excessively so.   They don't know anything here about ring mains  and they have a bit of a cavalier attitude to safety. For example, hardly anyone installs RCDs and they don't install kitchen isolation switches on hobs or ovens.   

If your house is older, you'll probably have 3 phase which is good thing.   They don't normally supply that now on new connections or it's optional.

Anyway, I suggest shopping around for stuff, there are plenty of offers and savings can be significant.

Argep is quite a good place to look for offers - needs some Hungarian.

If you are anywhere near Austria, go to the very large Hornbach in Wiener Neustadt.  They have a lot of decent electrical gear.   Other smaller stores have plenty of stuff but they tend to be more expensive - you might have to buy the sockets one place, the switches another and so on.  You can still save significant amounts doing that.

There's a thread in these forums: "Where can I find....".   Some discussions there on all sorts of things  that people try to source.

There are electrical supply houses for professionals where I am sure they  would have everything you would need for the job at a lower cost then a chain DIY store.
Please don't shoot the messenger but:
My Hungarian husband looked on line for this subject, couldn't find exactly where to go but did find the insurance form on line .
Long story but in 2017 they made a new law here in Hungary.
Might be best to start at your local city hall to find out where to find the forms etc.
You must fill out a detailed form on exactly your plans for repairs showing what equipment will be used at what point in the job etc.
You must also prove where you got your knowledge in this trade for how long you have been doing this sort of work
You must carry a min. of 1 million forints worth of insurance on the job before starting.
Insurance is required for any work that could be dangerous to life or property.
These forms must be approved first by the head of the board, suppose an electric builder board?
If you do not get inspections at various points during the work all might be stopped and not approved for up to one year.
My husband just found the place to go for the form here in Budapest, not sure where you live.

Muszaki Biztonsagi Hatosagok
1124 Budapest
Nemetuolgy Ut 37-39
1-458-5924

Of course this is if you want to be legal.
If however you ever decide to sell your house, you will need a home inspection  done before the sale .
goes through. Any repairs they notice that are not documented may come back to bite you.
I know my FIl built several homes out in Erd in the early 1970's. He was very handy and did almost all the work himself, he did however hire a professional plumber and electrician at key points during the construction because a building inspector had to sing off on the work before they could put up the walls etc.
Just saying, Hungary is a place of cheap property but it comes with a hidden price after all.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

.....
My Hungarian husband looked on line for this subject, couldn't find exactly where to go but did find the insurance form on line .
Long story but in 2017 they made a new law here in Hungary.
Might be best to start at your local city hall to find out where to find the forms etc.
You must fill out a detailed form on exactly your plans for repairs showing what equipment will be used at what point in the job etc.
You must also prove where you got your knowledge in this trade for how long you have been doing this sort of work
You must carry a min. of 1 million forints worth of insurance on the job before starting.
Insurance is required for any work that could be dangerous to life or property.
These forms must be approved first by the head of the board, suppose an electric builder board?
If you do not get inspections at various points during the work all might be stopped and not approved for up to one year...

I don't think that would apply to home DIY although the magnitude of the installation would be relevant.  But if you have a link to the 2017 law, that would be good.

Changing a socket or adding a light would not need involvement of anyone else, especially for a competent person. 

If it was the whole house, then maybe.  In this house, because the job was so large, we had electricians and received a certificate.  But no-one has ever asked us for it and it was before 2017.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

.....
My Hungarian husband looked on line for this subject, couldn't find exactly where to go but did find the insurance form on line .
Long story but in 2017 they made a new law here in Hungary.
Might be best to start at your local city hall to find out where to find the forms etc.
You must fill out a detailed form on exactly your plans for repairs showing what equipment will be used at what point in the job etc.
You must also prove where you got your knowledge in this trade for how long you have been doing this sort of work
You must carry a min. of 1 million forints worth of insurance on the job before starting.
Insurance is required for any work that could be dangerous to life or property.
These forms must be approved first by the head of the board, suppose an electric builder board?
If you do not get inspections at various points during the work all might be stopped and not approved for up to one year...

I don't think that would apply to home DIY although the magnitude of the installation would be relevant.  But if you have a link to the 2017 law, that would be good.

Changing a socket or adding a light would not need involvement of anyone else, especially for a competent person. 

If it was the whole house, then maybe.  In this house, because the job was so large, we had electricians and received a certificate.  But no-one has ever asked us for it and it was before 2017.

We tried to find the link, maybe later we can have to runout soon.
The poster did say he was rewiring the entire house.
I will see if I can get my husband to dig deeper later on, just everything is so hard here in HU at times, they are good at finding new ways to get money out of everyone, soon they will not let anyone change a light bulb without a form filled out first.
I'm going out to the HU SS office again so wish me luck!

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....
The poster did say he was rewiring the entire house.
I will see if I can get my husband to dig deeper later on, just everything is so hard here in HU at times, they are good at finding new ways to get money out of everyone, soon they will not let anyone change a light bulb without a form filled out first.
I'm going out to the HU SS office again so wish me luck!

I was thinking he could argue it was DIY and not a complete rewiring.   

But in any case, the chances of anyone saying anything is close to zero.  Once your house is "accepted" as being to acceptable standard,   then that's it, never hear from them again!

And good luck with the SS people.

I will seriously try to find out the exact new law. It bugs me to give half advice with something serious that might land someone is trouble.
Than ks for the well wishes, need them everything here is like falling down a rabbit hole.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

.....
.... need them everything here is like falling down a rabbit hole.

That's because we are living in The Matrix (Hungarian style).

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I will seriously try to find out the exact new law.

Such laws have existed for some time. Not sure what this "2017" law does specifically, however, or how it may change the game. But in general, based on my (extensive) past experience it depends (depended?) on what you are doing (building, renovating, remodeling, or restoring).

Anything new that drastically changes or adds normally is expected to get a permit. We replaced our roof tile, but it needed no permit (then), for example, since it was just a renovation of an existing structure. However, we were limited by the "type"' of tile we could use for local "historical" reasons (we live in a national park which limits how houses can "look").

But we had to "add" new out going plumbing. That required a permit. And it can be a ridiculously difficult process to jump through all the hoops getting the plans drawn up and approved. Took us about a year. I am not kidding. But of course, our local government and notary is very incompetent, so there is that.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Bauhaus, OBI, Praktiker and a host of others but they can be a bit noddy and not great on prices.

We only have Obi "near" us (still 30 minute drive away). Find them almost always more expensive than any of the local building supply stores. Some things they have I can't easily find elsewhere, but that is not the rule for me.

If I want paint or stain, I go to a local paint store. Cheaper, and actually a larger selection. Even mixed up some special paint for me recently.

Electrical, I go to the local electrical supply store.

For plumbing, I go to a local plumbing store -- they of course had what needed (a low profile water trap in a recent case), Obi did not.

Local tile store: much better selection than Obi.

Etc.

Yes, local stores are often where the pros shop, and so rarely fail to have what I need. But I have to take my wife -- they only speak Hungarian. Which is the only "benefit" to the large big box stores, you can browse and find things on your own without any language barrier.

Agree with using argep.hu to find sources. You can also order a lot and have it delivered. I actually do that a lot for less. Got our new bathtub that way.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Bauhaus, OBI, Praktiker and a host of others but they can be a bit noddy and not great on prices.

We only have Obi "near" us (still 30 minute drive away). Find them almost always more expensive than any of the local building supply stores. Some things they have I can't easily find elsewhere, but that is not the rule for me.

If I want paint or stain, I go to a local paint store. Cheaper, and actually a larger selection. Even mixed up some special paint for me recently.

Electrical, I go to the local electrical supply store.

For plumbing, I go to a local plumbing store -- they of course had what needed (a low profile water trap in a recent case), Obi did not.

Local tile store: much better selection than Obi.

Etc.

Yes, local stores are often where the pros shop, and so rarely fail to have what I need. But I have to take my wife -- they only speak Hungarian. Which is the only "benefit" to the large big box stores, you can browse and find things on your own without any language barrier.

Agree with using argep.hu to find sources. You can also order a lot and have it delivered. I actually do that a lot for less. Got our new bathtub that way.

I'd mostly agree with those sentiments.  Sometimes OBI might have something, might not, tendency to not if it's remotely different.  That's where mail order comes in.  Generally, specialist shops are the place to go as they may have all the fiddly bits.

Sometimes you can be really surprised.  Our local metal depot looks like nothing, just piles of rods and angle iron. I went there to buy some angle iron to make a frame. When we came to pay, we were directed to a "shed" there which is scruffy outside. Lo and behold, it's a very nice clean and complete shop with all sorts of hard to find nuts/bolts, tools etc.  Even the local hardware shop has a depth to it which you cannot see from outside - goes back far and has everything from pickaxe handles to 16mm Nyloc nuts. 

Likewise I tried to buy  a grease gun in Bauhaus - they had some grease but no gun.  Another bit of brain dead supply chain management.   

I was again at the large sized angle grinders, 56K HUF in Bauhaus, about 30K HUF on argep.hu mail order.  No contest.

Thanks for the info guys. My house is in Deg, Fejer county but the nearest town to us is Enying which does have a few shops and a hardware store I know of. The house does require complete renovation. Rewiring and plumbing included so not sure what route to take. If I knew good local tradesman then I'd probably leave those jobs to them but I don't and the language barrier can be difficult to find these people. I was given the name of someone in the village that would do the organising of people to come in and do these jobs who speaks good English. He has proved to be unreliable though as I think he has a few other British people doing the same as me and juggles us all around. I'm thinking of going out for a month next year during August and doing some work but there is quite a lot of work to do still. It may come to it that I may spend at least a year there to get the house significantly progressed.

We briefly looked up Deg on google maps, very quiet looking place with a population of about 2,300.
Nice park and small castle .
Doesn't seem like a place that has allot to do other then farming.
I don't know, might be a nice vacation area but about 20 25 miles from Balaton.
Must of been a good deal to buy for reasonable .
I sort of doubt any building inspectors are going to hunt you down out there to check if things are up to code.
Be careful of overly friendly English speaking helpers, they may or may not be making a few "bob" on the side if they are in negotiations with a non English speaking worker. They could be adding to the cost and get a kick back without you knowing.
Of course everyone should be able to make a buck for their time and energy but just be careful they aren't double dipping.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

We briefly looked up Deg on google maps, very quiet looking place with a population of about 2,300.
Nice park and small castle .
Doesn't seem like a place that has allot to do other then farming.
I don't know, might be a nice vacation area but about 20 25 miles from Balaton.
Must of been a good deal to buy for reasonable .
I sort of doubt any building inspectors are going to hunt you down out there to check if things are up to code.
Be careful of overly friendly English speaking helpers, they may or may not be making a few "bob" on the side if they are in negotiations with a non English speaking worker. They could be adding to the cost and get a kick back without you knowing.
Of course everyone should be able to make a buck for their time and energy but just be careful they aren't double dipping.

Absolutely.  It's a minefield.  We could have a whole thread on this subject.   

It's fraught with issues - needing proper plans, approvals, dealing with utilities (gas is really hard work), getting certificates etc. Builders are highly variable in quality.  In our house - which we fully refurbished (aka rebuilt totally - we only kept the ground floor walls), nothing is really straight and the floors are at different heights.  We think they cheated on materials using cheaper alternatives.  We've been in here about 18 months and we're already having to redo some of the drainage (recurrent theme that builders in Hungary think water runs uphill). Some of the woodwork isn't up to scratch either.    We haven't even started on the garden. We had to postpone any of that until a land dispute was resolved. 

First port of call has to be getting the plans done.  If there are any changes like roof, windows, insulation, heating, electricity, then it needs proper plans and needs permission and worst of all, work has to be registered in a special database.

Oh, BTW, one should check all land boundaries too via a surveyor.  Don't trust what it says on the ground.

darrenhp65 wrote:

I was given the name of someone in the village that would do the organising of people to come in and do these jobs who speaks good English. He has proved to be unreliable though

Seems there is someone like that in every village. Often bring in iffy people who do iffy work. Been there. Better to try to find a general contractor who has fewer local friends and family members who may need a job that month.

Hard to find a good general contractor who speaks English however. That is a problem.   

Took me a while to find a good contractor, but he still did not speak English. My wife had to be the go between. And when she was not around, it was a lot of pointing and hand gestures. But I did learn some Hungarian construction terms in the process.

fluffy2560 wrote:

work has to be registered in a special database

My contractor mentioned a database system became mandatory shortly after we did most of our renovation. It really consumes a lot of his time now. Not sure if it is the same database you were mentioning, but he said that one was mostly designed to record all work so no "black work" was being done -- that is, the government wanted to be sure they could record for tax purposes all the income he made on anything he did.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

work has to be registered in a special database

My contractor mentioned a database system became mandatory shortly after we did most of our renovation. It really consumes a lot of his time now. Not sure if it is the same database you were mentioning, but he said that one was mostly designed to record all work so no "black work" was being done -- that is, the government wanted to be sure they could record for tax purposes all the income he made on anything he did.

Yes, that's the one.  I don't know any details or its name as Mrs Fluffy dealt with it.  There's no way anyone who is not speaking Hungarian can deal with it.  And it doesn't work for the purposes intended of course.  I know Mrs Fluffy used to swear about it all the time as it's very difficult to use.  I expect they'll have to scrap it as it's universally hated by consumers and contractors alike.  It creates a very significant block and generates overheard.

klsallee wrote:

.....Hard to find a good general contractor who speaks English however....Took me a while to find a good contractor, but he still did not speak English. My wife had to be the go between. And when she was not around, it was a lot of pointing and hand gestures. But I did learn some Hungarian construction terms in the process.

Our contractor spoke some English  but he wasn't perfect even though he was friendly.   We're not that impressed with him but we're unable to find other people more capable.  So we might even have to hire him again.

The guy  who did the plans also spoke English but he made some mistakes which we are still trying to overcome!   His plans were actually wrong in some critical ways.  The contractors had to try and guess what he meant and they ended up redoing the plans/construction in places.  Some of the wrong things were pretty critical - missing roof support, chimney 10cm out on plan, drainage wrong, stairs incorrect, rear door at wrong level.  At least the contractor saw it was wrong on the plans and could redraft the plans and take some remedial action.

Chances of finding a contractor out in the sticks who speaks English must be close to zero.   Dealing with the workers is definitely a way to learn Hungarian.

Heard most of the good construction workers have either moved west for more pay or they are so busy with juicy paying jobs they have no time for these "small potato" jobs such as single family homes or flats.
I would take a bet that many of these so called contractors never spent a day in engineering or building school.
I've mentioned in the past of old "friend"who has a construction supply place in Lake Velence area and somehow got the contracts to build several of those newer grocery stores along the main highway in Velence.
He doesn't even know how to use a hammer. He has always made money with his mind and not his hands. He hired crews for cheap from Romania who were happy for a job.Not sure those workers knew what they were doing.This guy is some sort of "big shot" in Velence and can do anything he wants, buddies with all the officials in town etc.

In S, Africa in the 70's when my husband visited there, they often had a "white" boss in charge that had no clue how to do the job, his foreman was a black guy that was really the one that knew how to do the jobs.
It's crazy, in many ways Hungary is the wild west, some old laws and regulations are still on the books but they aren't always enforced, other times it's over kill and they check everything several times over.
Example is in all sorts of business and paperwork for everything.
I brought in official papers to the HU SS  office a couple months back, the office worker made copies. I got a letter in the mail after months of waiting that stated they wanted to have my original paper. Went in yesterday to drop it off, they made another copy instead! What??
This time however on the copy the clerk wrote her name down to vow that she had seen the original document.
Not holding my breath on any good news about this issue.
Most locals don't raise a fuss because it's always been normal here to get the run around.

I'll not name names but just this week a friend had a plumbing issue that could of been corrected in one day. Been trying to get it resolved for nearly 2 months now, the landlord had been dragging his feet on getting someone over to look at the problem.
The HU guy that was suppose to do the job just flaked out and didn't return the calls.
The tenant tried to ring up 4 or 5 HU plumbers on their own who advertised that they spoke English.
The phone rang out everytime, no pick up.
Finally through pure luck someone directed them to a guy who is from Latin America that just moved here. Job done in one day and for a lower cost then the few quotes that had been given over the past 2 months.
At a loss for words why no one seems to be reliable here.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Heard most of the good construction workers have either moved west for more pay or they are so busy with juicy paying jobs they have no time for these "small potato" jobs such as single family homes or flats.
....
He doesn't even know how to use a hammer. He has always made money with his mind and not his hands. He hired crews for cheap from Romania who were happy for a job.Not sure those workers knew what they were doing.....

In S, Africa in the 70's when my husband visited there, they often had a "white" boss in charge that had no clue how to do the job, his foreman was a black guy that was really the one that knew how to do the jobs.

Yup, that's the same here and even in Austria it's the same.  Clearly the one in charge is taking the majority of the money and the others are subcontracted.

They will take on building single family homes here because they work in gangs and they might have 2-3 gangs at the same time.   Usually it's 3-4 people - an older guy who is the foreman,  other workers of any age but experienced and almost always a younger guy who is learning the job.

However, I believe the construction sector is really on the up at the moment.  There's more work around than ever and they don't need to advertise.   Hence our difficulties finding someone to do our outside/garden construction.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

...Most locals don't raise a fuss because it's always been normal here to get the run around.

Years ago I always wondered why people spent ages at the counter asking questions and engaging in conversation.  And then I found out.  It's because you simply cannot trust the answers you are given so the whole thing has to be repeated 3-4 times to make sure it's all consistent.   I learnt relatively quickly that unless you get a paper with an official stamp on it,  it's all alternative facts and therefore simply not to be trusted.  It really affects how one behaves. In my own country which doesn't have  these "inefficiencies",  I find myself asking for papers with stamps on or asking for letters confirming what they said.  They usually turn me down!

A lot of Hungarians commute to Austria each day and work here. At the moment our townhall is having major work being done, at a cost of €5 million. Anyway, the workers are perfectly not Austrian. German is rarely used. The workers are from the eastern block.

It's a bit discouraging to even think of doing repairs if you can't rely on the job being done quickly and correctly.
We are lazy, well getting old and got burnt out fixing our old house in Ca. years ago. If we had the energy or drive we would probably do most jobs ourselves with the help of u tube, hit or miss.
Not a big deal to take out a tub and replace it or to do tile work, only dislike living with the mess.

We did allot in our old house from redoing hardwood floors to cleaning all the pipes with a rooter, acid washed our swimming pool ourselves, only took less then a week to do and my husband was working full time elsewhere.
Think it was 35,000 gallons of fresh water we had to add later. Huge water bill that month.
Don't really care these days, will sale as is and not hassle ourselves,
Most times people don't always like a remodel job anyways, they would rather  pick their own colors and items.
I know I enjoyed buying the supplies myself  from tile to wallpaper even picked my own diving board and plants to trim around the house.
It's fun if you want to play house to do it yourself when you can.
We brought in my husband's step bro from HU back in the mid 80's for 2 months to redo our house in Ca. Mostly just cosmetic things, like painting, tiles work and redoing a brick wall with rebarb to make it earthquake prove.
We actually lost money by fixing up the house before we sold it, the market dropped a bit while we were busy fixing things up. Probably lost a good $40,000 plus all the hassle of doing the work not mentioning putting up with old step-bro the alkie...

SimCityAT wrote:

A lot of Hungarians commute to Austria each day and work here. At the moment our townhall is having major work being done, at a cost of €5 million. Anyway, the workers are perfectly not Austrian. German is rarely used. The workers are from the eastern block.

Undoubtedly it has to be bid for suppliers as per EU-rules.   

Townhall renovations won by Eastern Europeans.

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

A lot of Hungarians commute to Austria each day and work here. At the moment our townhall is having major work being done, at a cost of €5 million. Anyway, the workers are perfectly not Austrian. German is rarely used. The workers are from the eastern block.

Undoubtedly it has to be bid for suppliers as per EU-rules.   

Townhall renovations won by Eastern Europeans.

The company is Austrian but the workers are not. They are Hungarian, Slovakian, Slovenian..... They are the labourers on the ground. But I can't blame coming over. 14 month pay with all the benefits.

SimCityAT wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

A lot of Hungarians commute to Austria each day and work here. At the moment our townhall is having major work being done, at a cost of €5 million. Anyway, the workers are perfectly not Austrian. German is rarely used. The workers are from the eastern block.

Undoubtedly it has to be bid for suppliers as per EU-rules.   

Townhall renovations won by Eastern Europeans.

The company is Austrian but the workers are not. They are Hungarian, Slovakian, Slovenian.....

Oh well, even better!

Sorry I edited, but you were to fast Mr Fluffy

SimCityAT wrote:

...14 month pay with all the benefits.

Well that's it. 

AT rates and potentially sleep at home in their own beds!

Hi

I am doing some extension work on my house in Hungary and it does now require professionals to complete the work if any planning permission is required. They now have the electronic "Daily Diary" and you pay someone to fill this in and if the diary mentions electrical, plumbing, structural, they all need to be backed up by a certified person.

As you say if it is an extension, it is no problem but if it involves new incoming mains etc, it has to be by an approved contractor. The Hungarian government has found a very neat way to close down the number of planning offices and make the poor homeowner do the checking work. If the daily diary is completed they do not have to come out to check on any work as it has been done by "professionals" and they can just sign the work off.

Hungary is changing I am afraid and it is becoming more difficult to do work on your own home even if you are qualified in another country.

markru wrote:

They now have the electronic "Daily Diary" and you pay someone to fill this in and if the diary mentions electrical, plumbing, structural, they all need to be backed up by a certified person.

Meanwhile, I have been watching a house getting renovated up the road. The same two guys come and go. Did the structural update to put in a second floor. Installed the plumbing. And the electrical. Our road is a dead end. If a car goes up or down I probably see it. And I doubt these two guys are certified in all that they are doing. Have not seen any inspector for each task. Maybe I missed it. That is possible..... I suppose.  And I may be wrong about who did what and their certifications, since anything is of course "possible". I suppose......

That is, locals getting around the system may be happening here despite "rules". Not saying expats should do it, however. And buying a house with some DIY work by a local is maybe buying into a real problem. It is scary some of the really bad DIY stuff I have found in our house that took a lot of time and money to fix properly.

But..... even the pros can do it wrong here -- have found more incompetent plumbers than competent ones here as just one example. I have stood over pros to make sure they do it right, and I have had to correct most of them. Even fired one because he had an attitude and said "he did not ever go to the free training offered by the manufacturer because "he" know how to do it" -- I asked him how he did it and his method was wrong. And our first electrician over the top tore up our walls installing new wire conduits because he used an impact hammer to chisel out the channels rather than a circular saw/grinder with a proper cutting disk. What a mess. I could DIY better, yet I have to pay for a "pro" to screw it up. Yeah, that makes sense. Not.

klsallee wrote:

.... And our first electrician over the top tore up our walls installing new wire conduits because he used an impact hammer to chisel out the channels rather than a circular saw/grinder with a proper cutting disk. What a mess. I could DIY better, yet I have to pay for a "pro" to screw it up. Yeah, that makes sense. Not.

It's not that bad. He probably did that as it's quick and easy.   And common to do it that way here.

There is a machine with two parallel masonry disks to cut channels but it makes so much dust, it's really not worth using it on an occupied house unless you can totally clear the rooms or you have the vacuum attachment.  Takes weeks of cleaning thereafter and several baths to get it out of your pores and hair.

I found a special attachment (like a butterfly shaped chisel) to cut channels on an impact hammer drill which will dig quite nice channels into the brickwork quite neatly.   Then it's insert the tubular conduit and blitz cement it into the wall and plaster over the top.   At the junctions, I used a special diamond saw to cut perfect holes for the junction boxes.  Works a treat.

I caught one guy installing cables in the wall without even using conduit.  He cemented them straight in!

fluffy2560 wrote:

klsallee wrote:

.... And our first electrician over the top tore up our walls installing new wire conduits because he used an impact hammer to chisel out the channels rather than a circular saw/grinder with a proper cutting disk. What a mess. I could DIY better, yet I have to pay for a "pro" to screw it up. Yeah, that makes sense. Not.

It's not that bad. He probably did that as it's quick and easy.   And common to do it that way here.

It was that bad for me.

One brick wall was built with "Hungarian cement" -- i.e. sand. And the hammer pushed some bricks out the other side.

One stone wall had large stones. The idiot just removed them. Even in a corner wall, and so many I could see daylight through the corner. Large stones are structural in a stone house, especially in a corner. It was really a disaster. I have a diamond blade on my angle grinder. I ended up having to tell the guy to stop, and I cut the channels myself. It actually took me less time to cut stone with that blade then him pounding away with the impact hammer -- so the quicker theory is wrong. And the blade caused no damage to my walls otherwise.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

klsallee wrote:

.... And our first electrician over the top tore up our walls installing new wire conduits because he used an impact hammer to chisel out the channels rather than a circular saw/grinder with a proper cutting disk. What a mess. I could DIY better, yet I have to pay for a "pro" to screw it up. Yeah, that makes sense. Not.

It's not that bad. He probably did that as it's quick and easy.   And common to do it that way here.

It was that bad for me.

One brick wall was built with "Hungarian cement" -- i.e. sand. And the hammer pushed some bricks out the other side.

One stone wall had large stones. The idiot just removed them. Even in a corner wall, and so many I could see daylight through the corner. Large stones are structural in a stone house, especially in a corner. It was really a disaster. I have a diamond blade on my angle grinder. I ended up having to tell the guy to stop, and I cut the channels myself. It actually took me less time to cut stone with that blade then him pounding away with the impact hammer -- so the quicker theory is wrong. And the blade caused no damage to my walls otherwise.

Oh yes, that'll need the grinder.   

This is what I meant:  Double Grinder.  But  really, the vacuum removal is so necessary.  I stopped using my one because I don't have the vacuum part as it's just an angle grinder with a diamond disk. It was dreadfully dusty.   Like working in a cloud.

It was just so much less mess with the hammer chisel but it was that air brick/tile type material.   But in this house, it's solid concrete with rebar as the lintels and columns and within the 30cm zone at the edges, just air bricks as fillers.  They aren't structural of course.

fluffy2560 wrote:

But  really, the vacuum removal is so necessary.  I stopped using my one because I don't have the vacuum part as it's just an angle grinder with a diamond disk. It was dreadfully dusty.   Like working in a cloud.

Yep, a vacuum is pretty important. Even a helper holding a vacuum nozzle near the cut works better than nothing if one does not have the proper tools. **

I now have a lot of the more fun tools that control for such things. But, at that time, on that occasion, I just wore a respirator and went at it. It was in the early days of our restoration, so the house was a messy, dusty disaster anyway. So the dust from all that really contributed little to the overall mess at the time. I think I have a picture somewhere of my face, dust mask and googles removed, showing the dust I collected on myself. But still, it was the right way to do it in this type of house. Doing it easy is not the same as doing it right. 

** Some do the one hand on the grinder, one hand holding the vacuum thing, but that is dangerous -- those grinders can grab at any time and one hand can not control the tool in such an event. Even two hands are not always enough. I had both hands on an angle grinder once that grabbed and twisted out of my grip, and went flying through the air. The spinning blade landed on my thigh. Because of course, despite all the other possible places, probability be damned, it would find the  worse possible place to land where it could do the most personal physical damage. But, fortunately, I know how the fates work, and I had on special multi-layer work pants, so was uninjured -- but sure tore the pants apart. As a health and safety warning to others: These tools are dangerous, so never hold these tools with just one hand!