Voting in the Referendum on the UK;s membership of the EU

Whilst I don't think the UK exiting the EU would affect being able to remain in Malta, I would be a bit cautious that an exit might prevent moving to another EU country at a later date should we want a change from here.

Ray

An out may well make life harder for those looking to become expats. As someone looking to become an expat for the second time I quite like the in option!

As I understand it, some Euro politicians have make comments akin to a woman scorned, suggesting getting vindictive if the UK decided to leave.
This could be a major issue for UK expats in Europe, not to mention Europeans in the UK.

I don't think  a UK exit will make any difference to existing ex pats who have legitimate residency in another country or to people who are self sufficient and wish to move to another country.
Why should it ? If you support yourself and pay tax then nothing would change.
Health care provisions were in place before Malta joined the EU and are the result of an agreement signed by both parties, nothing to do with the EU.

People with a trade or skill will still be able to find work in other countries the only group affected are the people on benefits in the UK who will probably find that they will not be eligible for them within the EU.

Terry

the date for the vote is the 23rd june

i think anyone  who is an expat who votes out is a bit like a turkey voting for christmas

robpw2 wrote:

the date for the vote is the 23rd june

i think anyone  who is an expat who votes out is a bit like a turkey voting for christmas

Why? I'm not an illegal immigrant, I have residential status in Malta and contribute to the economy.

What do you think will change?

Most reciprocal agreements between the UK and Malta were in place long before Malta joined the EU.

Terry

robpw2 wrote:

the date for the vote is the 23rd june

i think anyone  who is an expat who votes out is a bit like a turkey voting for christmas

I'm an expat, but it won't make the slightest difference unless the Pound dies a death because of it.
I think you mean expats who live within Europe.

It seems as if I don't get a vote anyway, something I see as unfair.

But no one knows what's is to happen to expats in Europe as nothing has been explained - like the Scottish referendum - it's not just about leaving Europe their is so many questions to be answered and the most will not understand the full ramifications

This this could likely throw up a whole bunch of problems for Euro expats in other Euro countries.
A British man in one of the member states could find himself needing his passport and a visa, as could a Polish dude living and working in London.
When that lot is explained and sorted out, expats will know where they stand.

Think of the bright side, most of the big money is committed to the pro Euro camp, so there may be no worries at all.
The Daily mail is less than enthusiastic about Europe, and God only knows what headlines The Sun will come up with (For those who remember the "Up yours" front page).
The newspapers, crappy little rags that they might very well be, could be the deciding factor as a lot of people actually believe what they read in them.

There was life before the EU, I travelled and worked throughout Europe with  a passport and visa when necessary.

Terry

This is crazy, I've just returned from the US after 10 years working and living there as a permanent resident. If we vote out and it stops us moving thru Europe I guess I'll have to go there. Unless with the climate change we start to get more than a few weeks of sunshine in the UK.
Needless to say I and my friends and family will be voting to stay in.

If I were British (as opposed to being German) I'd be very very worried about the possibility of being able to live outside of the UK if the UK were to pull out of the EU

You simply can't live in a EU country with few strings attached unless you are an EU citizen! 

That's why Malta (and other EU countries, including the UK) have been able to set up highly profitable EU citizenship buy-in programs for the ultra wealthy.

I'd also be ultra concerned about the UK's economic and political influence and stability.

I, too, think that while maybe an "out" wouldn't change too much for British expats in Malta (as the two countries have had close ties long before the EU), Brits living in other EU countries might face serious difficulties if the UK left the EU. Of course, like tearnet said, there was life before the EU, but in mainland Europe, at least, the EU has made life much easier... And while there are always ways to get a work permit etc. in another country, the EU makes it A LOT EASIER!!! In Austria, for example, non-EU citizens won't usually get a work permit or residency unless they pass a German test and a test on Austrian history, cultural studies, etc...  So even if you're highly qualified, there are certain burdens that might be difficult to overcome.

Just my thoughts...

Dear bernie_iris_fabian_david,

Regarding  your comments: "...an "out" wouldn't change too much for British expats in Malta (as the two countries have had close ties long before the EU)....And while there are always ways to get a work permit etc. in another country" 

I respectfully disagree that "there are always ways to get another permit''  and would appreciate if you could be more specific.

I would also add that Malta being now part of the EU may negate whatever previous arrangements there were with the UK.

I am just trying to be helpfully realistic.

Dear isabella123,

Maybe I haven't made myself clear - I absolutely agree with you that "Malta being now part of the EU may negate whatever previous arrangements there were with the UK" - and I only said that MAYBE an "out" wouldn't change too much for British expats in Malta... but definitely in other EU countries.

Apart from that, I think robpw2 put it quite nicely when he said "i think anyone  who is an expat who votes out is a bit like a turkey voting for christmas"...

And as for my comment that "there are always ways to get a work permit", I was referring to the fact that in Austria (my home country), for example, non-EU citizens can apply for a so called "red-white-red card" which is kind of a temporary work permit - but in addition to this usually being reserved for "highly qualified professionals" in sectors where there is a lot of demand (IT, technology...), applicants need to pass the tests I mentioned (German & Austrian history etc...) and the card is only temporary.
And if the UK were to leave the EU, UK citizens would actually have the same status as people from any non-EU country, and preference would always be given to EU nationals.

This, by the way, is something that often surprises US Americans or Canadians who want to work in Austria. I work as an English teacher, so I know some Americans teaching English. And I know that they sometimes had to struggle for more than half a year to be allowed to work part time, teaching a few hours of English. Whereas a Brit could just come, say "here I am", and start working the next day (kind of...).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/121518 … urope.html
This pretty sums up the problems that expats face

tearnet wrote:

There was life before the EU, I travelled and worked throughout Europe with  a passport and visa when necessary.

Terry

With all due respect - I'm not travelling in Europe -I am living and working here - this isn't my retirement mate .
Leaving the eu would have massive consequences for many of us who live and work throughout Europe .

We have made a life here and no one has given us any reassurances as to what is going to happen if they leave the eu ..

Non of the agreements in place between  the UK and Malta were "negated" when Malta joined the EU so why would they "if " the UK leaves?
Malta gets a substantial amount of money directly from the UK for each UK expat that takes up residency to pay for the healthcare agreement. Something they don't get from other EU  countries.
Can you imagine Spain or Greece kicking out over 1 million tax payers !
Now that would be like a turkey voting for Christmas!
Personally, If or when I return I would rather live in the UK out of the EU.

Terry

robpw2 wrote:

We have made a life here and no one has given us any reassurances as to what is going to happen if they leave the eu ..

Which is why threads trying to find out such information could be essential to expats all over Europe, including Europeans in the UK.
An "Out" vote could well be a massive problem for British expats in Malta, so why doesn't someone ask the right person the right questions?
Surely one of the long term expats knows someone who can give answers.... or not?

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/should-brexit-mate … -diminish/

The link rob posted really says it all and I also wholeheartedly agree with bernie_iris_fabian_david!

If Brits vote to leave the EU they will be denying young people the right to free movement. And this coming from expats themselves is quite a selfish act that I cannot understand.

IMHO the UK leaving the EU equals economic suicide considering that finance is their main sector and negotiating favourable trade deals once out of the EU is not a given. The access to the domestic market could be hindered, foreign investment drastically reduced, etc. And not to mention Scotland wanting to remain in the EU!

However, I think they will not vote themselves out. I can only speak for some Germans but from what I've read and heard the majority of them have grown tired of the UK & and their complaints - they wish they would just pack up and leave (not me btw!)

Edit:
Here's a translation of a select few comments from the spiegel.de comment section:

"If I could vote if I wanted the English out of the EU... i would check yes!"
"Go! Go with god (and queen), but just go!"
"An exit would now be the more honest solution. For decades they have received special treatment ("Brit-Discount") whilst keeping out of everything the EU represents (single currency etc.)"

Interesting story on Malta Today and I think summing up the reasonable fears of many expats - why should EU-based British citizens be given special treatment if he UK leaves?

http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/natio … swc8PmLSUk

From todays TOM..

"As for Maltese living in the UK, Dr Muscat said that if the UK left the EU, existing bilateral social security and health agreements would apply. "

  exactly WHAT I SAID.

Terry

tearnet wrote:

'.... Dr Muscat said that if the UK left the EU, existing bilateral social security and health agreements would apply. "

  exactly WHAT I SAID...

Terry - do we really believe all agreements are set in stone? And bilateral social security and health agreements does not cover the full spectrum of requirements that EU membership offers expatriates!

I think it would be a massive shame if people lost the ability to move freely to live in a country they believe offers them the quality of life they seek, whether that is through their hopefully long and pleasant retirement or for the remaining period of their working lives beforehand.

Dan

tearnet wrote:

From todays TOM..

"As for Maltese living in the UK, Dr Muscat said that if the UK left the EU, existing bilateral social security and health agreements would apply. "

  exactly WHAT I SAID.

Terry

the amazing trustworthy dr Muscat ....

kiwi dan wrote:

tearnet wrote:

'.... Dr Muscat said that if the UK left the EU, existing bilateral social security and health agreements would apply. "

  exactly WHAT I SAID...

Terry - do we really believe all agreements are set in stone? And bilateral social security and health agreements does not cover the full spectrum of requirements that EU membership offers expatriates!

I think it would be a massive shame if people lost the ability to move freely to live in a country they believe offers them the quality of life they seek, whether that is through their hopefully long and pleasant retirement or for the remaining period of their working lives beforehand.

Dan

Thousands of people moved to a country that they believed to offer them the quality of live they were seeking before the EU, the rules may change but if you want something enough you will do it.

Terry

robpw2 wrote:

tearnet wrote:

From todays TOM..

"As for Maltese living in the UK, Dr Muscat said that if the UK left the EU, existing bilateral social security and health agreements would apply. "

  exactly WHAT I SAID.

Terry

the amazing trustworthy dr Muscat ....

Vs the amazingly trustworthy David Cameron!

tearnet wrote:

....
Thousands of people moved to a country that they believed to offer them the quality of live they were seeking before the EU, the rules may change but if you want something enough you will do it.
Terry

But that simply isn't true. Try and explain that to numerous British citizens who wanted to emigrate to Australia but were unable to meet the points requirements.

Or are you suggesting the 'back of a lorry' approach?

I was talking about  the 1 million plus UK residents who have moved from the UK to Australia.
There should be restrictions on migration and each country will have its own criteria, Unrestricted migration does not work ! ( Its partly why the referendum is taking place).
You can currently enter Greece or Turkey illegally and get to Calais without any checks, that's crazy.

Terry

A couple of politicians have been mentioned, so perhaps it's a good time to remember an old joke.

How do you know when a politician is lying?
His lips move.

Most people only believe politicians when the politician says something they like to hear.

I am not sure which way to vote.  Living in Malta will it make any difference to freedom of travel within europe, and the euro against the pound etc.

I'm with you Terry on this. I'm planning a move to Malta and this site, and others have been a pot o gold of information. Currently in the UK and looking forward to a move out there, I would be very concerned if, after having stayed in Malta for say 10 to 15 years and (for whatever reason) found that I had to return and found that the UK was sinking. Unfettered immigration is a real threat to the stability of the UK. The drain on all of the important resources to function as a civilized society will decline to the point where it will become dangerous. Schools, housing, GP surgeries, the police, the fire service, the NHS and any publicly funded service will collapse under the increased strain. Those who argue that immigration will create extra wealth through extra taxation of those coming into the UK are deluded. We already have an unemployment rate of over 5% and we've just heard that TATA steel is pulling out of UK and many other big business are closing down...where, exactly are these jobs going to come from.

Those, who have commented about "but what about us expats" is probably the most selfish attitude I've heard in quite a while...me me me. It's about our children, their children and their children, not us. Too many people are looking at the short term and don't have the sense or ability to look at the long term strategy for the UK. There is another argument about jobs attached to the EU. UK has about 3-4 million jobs related to EU membership and trade, however, the EU has 7-8 million jobs related to UK trade. They need us more than we need them. Will Volkswagon, Seat, Fiat, Citroen, Mercedes etc etc just stop trading with us? I don't think so - these big corporations and similar big financial institutions will leanon their respective government to ensure that it never happens. I'm with the person who quoted from the German newspapers........let them vote as well, It'll make it so much easier for us.
****

I believe the whole point of this referendum is one of democracy and the ability to govern ourselves and hold our politicians to account. I agree with Terry and Micky Joe with ref to not much will change and the attitudes of some of the expats with regards to freedom of movement. Again it's the problem of people who don't live in the UK deciding the fate of the people who do. Now I know I will move to Malta as soon as I've completed my studies and will accept the decision whatever happens on June 23rd and whatever arrangements Malta and the UK decide to implement in a out verdict. In case your wondering I will be voting out.

Important note for those out of the UK more than 15 years http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 … referendum

My husband and I plan to move to Malta in October this year. He is British I am non eu (married 20 years) We were hoping to be semi retired as we have enough funds to support our selves.

In light of possibility of Uk exiting the Eu should we come before 23 June and start our residency? We could be self sufficent if necessary and meet the criteria for EU citizens . We would like to work part time doing something like waitressing or similar low paid unskilled work, as we may be a bit bored if we didn't work.I am worried that if we leave it till Oct we may be too late as they may draw a line for additional expats to join Malta.

Your thoughts on this will be appreciated.

Thanks

Julie2016 wrote:

Your thoughts on this will be appreciated.

Anyone claiming to be able to answer is just speculating

People moved to Malta long before the EU was established.
Should the UK vote to leave it would be a while before any change would take place.
Malta has a number of agreements with the UK that were in force before Malta joined the EU and would stay in place should the UK vote out (unless Malta decided to revoke them).
Not sure why they would as they get a sum from the UK for every expat that takes advantage of the reciprocal  health agreement plus the tax and income that the expats spend in Malta.

Just my opinion and a bit of common sense.

Terry

But alas no-one knows for sure - this is the concerning factor - sorry terry but I think on this your wrong - the it used to happen like this so I guess it still will argument is flawed - unless concrete plans are put in place people need to stay in the eu.

But that's the argument that the remain group use " its been good in the EU, so it will be in the future".

The EU is based on a flawed idea of a "European one size fits all superstate", its already starting to fall apart and is propped up by  huge debt.

Greece, Portugal, France, Spain, Italy and all the eastern block new members are a huge drain on the Euro, the only country that does well out of Europe is Germany as its currency is undervalued by 20%.

The "common market" was a great idea spoilt by politicians who are more interested in growing an empire than  trading.

Its a big world out there and they all want to trade, the UK is a trading nation and will prosper outside of the EU.

Terry