Another visa question

You say, we will have rental income, does the other person on the we have any SS. NO rental or investment income will count unless it is an annuity good for many years, like 20 plus. You could still come and end up as a perpetual tourist, making border runs every 90 days if you intend to have an automobile and drive. The tourist visa is good for 180 days, but your foreign DL is only good for 90 days.

Thank you, Sunnymikkel.  My wife won't be eligible for Social Security for several years, so the only pension we'll have is my $953.  I'll look into annuities and see what it takes to set one up to cover the difference.  One other question - does the $1,000 cover both of us, or do we need even more income?

Sunnymikkel wrote:

You say, we will have rental income, does the other person on the we have any SS. NO rental or investment income will count unless it is an annuity good for many years, like 20 plus. You could still come and end up as a perpetual tourist, making border runs every 90 days if you intend to have an automobile and drive. The tourist visa is good for 180 days, but your foreign DL is only good for 90 days.

LeftClique wrote:

Thank you, Sunnymikkel.  My wife won't be eligible for Social Security for several years, so the only pension we'll have is my $953.  I'll look into annuities and see what it takes to set one up to cover the difference.  One other question - does the $1,000 cover both of us, or do we need even more income?

Sunnymikkel wrote:

You say, we will have rental income, does the other person on the we have any SS. NO rental or investment income will count unless it is an annuity good for many years, like 20 plus. You could still come and end up as a perpetual tourist, making border runs every 90 days if you intend to have an automobile and drive. The tourist visa is good for 180 days, but your foreign DL is only good for 90 days.

You'll need an additional $250 for a total pension of $1,250 per month.

This article seemed current to me:  http://panamalawyerservices.wordpress.c … -required/

SawMan wrote:

You'll need an additional $250 for a total pension of $1,250 per month.

This article seemed current to me:  http://panamalawyerservices.wordpress.c … -required/

Thanks, Sawman.  I didn't expect to see anyone from the Ecuador forum over here.  I'm beginning to realize it's difficult to find out the exact legalities of retiring to ANY Central or South American country, because I've found all kinds of conflicting information.  We're getting close to making a decision and are re-thinking our options.  We thought someplace nearer the USA might make more sense, but we'll have to skip Panama if there isn't another way to meet the income requirement.   

Should we ask a facilitator or lawyer?  Has anyone here used a Panamanian lawyer?  Any recommendations?

LeftClique wrote:

SawMan wrote:

You'll need an additional $250 for a total pension of $1,250 per month.

This article seemed current to me:  http://panamalawyerservices.wordpress.c … -required/

Thanks, Sawman.  I didn't expect to see anyone from the Ecuador forum over here.  I'm beginning to realize it's difficult to find out the exact legalities of retiring to ANY Central or South American country, because I've found all kinds of conflicting information.  We're getting close to making a decision and are re-thinking our options.  We thought someplace nearer the USA might make more sense, but we'll have to skip Panama if there isn't another way to meet the income requirement.   

Should we ask a facilitator or lawyer?  Has anyone here used a Panamanian lawyer?  Any recommendations?

I'm no expert on any country, but have been to Panama quite a few times.  I have no idea where I'll end up.  But, I wouldn't worry about qualifying for the pensionado program.  Is leaving every 180 days all that burdensome?  In other words, your tourist visa is pretty good by itself.  You may want out more frequently than that!

SawMan wrote:

I wouldn't worry about qualifying for the pensionado program.  Is leaving every 180 days all that burdensome?  In other words, your tourist visa is pretty good by itself.  You may want out more frequently than that!

Thanks.  I spent some time looking at blogs and websites yesterday and it seems a lot of people are retired in Panama on tourist visas.  We'd heard the "border shuffle" was only semi-legal for Ecuador, but never checked on Panama.  The details are pretty murky, though.  Some say you drive to the border, step across, step back and - bingo - you get a new visa, but others say you have to stay out for two or three days.  Some say you have to have to leave every 90 days, some say 180.  Anyway, I think it could work!

The tourist visa (a few years back) was good only for 90 days, now it's 180 days.  When people now talk about 90 days, they are usually referring to the back that your non-Panama drivers license is only valid for 90 days.  So, you need to walk or take taxis for the second half of your maximum stay!

For a couple, the income requirements for the Pensionado visa for a couple are $1250 per month  in lifetime income.  If your Social Security check is not that much, you have 2 choices.  (1) buy an annuity that will make up the difference.  It must be a lifetime annunity.
but the better choice would be to get the Friendly Nations visa instead.  It has no income requirements.  You will need to open a Panama bank accout with $7500 deposited.  As soon as you get your temporary visa you can start spending the $7500. 

You will still get the pensionado discounts if you meet the minimum age requirements which are 55 for a woman and 60 for a man. 

With the Friendly Nations Visa you can also start a business or work if you decide to do so.  You cannot work with the Pensionado visa.

I have a couple of questions.  First, are you sure?  From what I've read, a Friendly Nations visa also requires having a job with, or owning, a Panamanian company, and proving your salary from said company is enough to support you and any dependents.  Second, "SovereignLady" indicates to me that your views are decidedly Libertarian, in which case I'm inclined to pass on your advice.

SovereignLady wrote:

For a couple, the income requirements for the Pensionado visa for a couple are $1250 per month  in lifetime income.  If your Social Security check is not that much, you have 2 choices.  (1) buy an annuity that will make up the difference.  It must be a lifetime annunity.
but the better choice would be to get the Friendly Nations visa instead.  It has no income requirements.  You will need to open a Panama bank accout with $7500 deposited.  As soon as you get your temporary visa you can start spending the $7500. 

You will still get the pensionado discounts if you meet the minimum age requirements which are 55 for a woman and 60 for a man. 

With the Friendly Nations Visa you can also start a business or work if you decide to do so.  You cannot work with the Pensionado visa.

I have a Friendly Nations Visa.  To get it, you either have to have a job offer OR you can set up a corporation.  But as soon as you get your permanent visa you can not renew the corporation if you have absolutely no plans to work.  But it's a good idea to keep it open at least a few years just in case you come up with a business opportunity.  (it happens a lot in Panama). It is $300 a year to keep the corporation open.  You do NOT need to have an active business, just the intent to start one sometime in the future.  If/when you no longer have an intent, you can stop paying get rid of the corporation

You absolutely do NOT need to prove any income from your company.

If you meet the age requirements, you still get the pensionado discounts.

I have not commented in public or private on this forum about anyone's political views - so I don't know where that comment came from.

The information posted on this topic all looks accurate to me. Rental income wouldn't qualify because that could change at any time. You need a annuity or something guaranteed for life. I'm not sure how you came up with someone's supposed politics, but that has nothing to do with the accuracy of the information.
We have been here two years on tourist visas waiting for my SS to kick in so we qualify for residency. The requirements for border runs seem to change with the direction of the breezes and the mood of the agents but in general, it seems to work best to stay out of the country at least overnight. Your visa is good for 180 days, but your drivers licence is only good for 90 so if you drive, you have to do the border run more frequently.

I've made an effort to research retirement options and types of visas for Panama.  I've yet to find agreement on how much cash/income/investments, exactly, are required.  That's a problem.  My wife and I aren't thinking about retiring overseas because we're rich.  A mistake would ruin us.

The Internet is great, but there are pitfalls and I've learned to be skeptical.  If someone gives me advice and has a link leading to their websites, I'll probably take a look at them and what I read there will influence my opinion.

In any event, we don't qualify for the retirement visa, and the requirements for the other types of visas are too vague or expensive for us to consider.

Thanks, John

Have you looked into Nicaragua? The requirements for residency there are $600, or $700 for a couple. We recently spent time on Ometepe Island and fell in love with the place and the people. We have another house sitting job in Granada next month and hope to check out a bit more of the country.

You really need to consult with an attorney who is well versed with the Immigration laws of Panama. We are in the process now. You do need to have $1000 guarenteed life-time income at a minimum. I have heard of lawyers who have gone to the head of Immigration and asked for an "exception" but from what I have heard this is not usual and surely not guaranteed. I do not think that investment income would qualify as you have to have proof that it is a permanent and life time income.

The immigration folks in Panama are becoming much more strict and are following the law of several years ago when it comes to "perpetual" tourists. Yes, the visa is valid for six months but upon re-entry into Panama you are required to have $500 cash or a current bank statement that shows such, copies of your passport and a return airfare to your country of origin. The officials are actually checking the tickets and confirmation numbers to make sure that they are accurate and not simply "made up". We have had several friends stopped from entry as they only had "pretend" tickets. So, please be aware of the enforcement issues.

The "border shuffle" is not so quick and easy. You do need to be out for a day. You cannot hop across into Costa Rica and then hop across back into Panama. The every six month hop is surely doable as there are some really good spots to stay for a day. If you cross at Rio Serrano, north of Volcan, you can travel to San Vito and have a couple of good options. If you cross at Paso Canoa you can travel to Golfito and find lots of places to stay but be aware of the potential for humidity.

how will you survive with this little
panama has become very expensive

I think with their income from rental properties, they have close to $3000/mo. That's a lot in this country. It's just rental income doesn't count towards meeting the income requirements for a pensionado residency.

rental income is not part of the pensionado program