Devils Tower Road

If you like, I am staying at an apartment in Devil's tower... It's something my company has rented for just one month but it's really a great place (two bedrooms with enough bedding for 4 people) although quite expensive. So I was thinking about sharing it with a flatmate... how about that?

Hi,

you are very kind to offer me a flat share but I have a wife and daughter as well, so it would be a bit crowded! But many thanks anyway! Which building are you in, Wellington Court? I saw a couple of rentals there recently... What is Devils Tower Rd like? Is it still rundown? Or has it improved?

I would like to know more. Thanks, Nick.

Oh I see... well my offer is just for hopeless bachelors / bachelorettes like myself. I am in Filomena House... it doesn't look too run down to me, but I think that my standards are pretty low now, considered where I spent my last 7 years.

Cheers anyway and let me know if you know somebody decent willing to share a great flat.

See you

I looked at a place there when I was buying and wouldn't recommend it.

Better options for below £180K?  Off Main St, always a good investment. (where we live - but I don't know of any flats in our block for sale, they move pretty quickly when they come up).

Out of town, you should get something for that price either in south district, eg Sunnyside, or even further away at Elliott's Battery (europa point). Depends what you want.

You won't get anything new in that price range but there should be choice in older properties.  I wouldn't rule out Ocean Heights or Both Worlds, the disadvantage there is the oncosts.

Hi Japalino, yes Filomena Hs is the jewel in the crown of Devils T.Rd I think, nice and new and modern isn't it? I was thinking more of the general state of the area of Devils T.Rd... What is it like nowadays? I looked on line at Northview Terr, but it looked like it was over a funeral parlour! Another on was opposite a council slum block, Wellington Crt? Shackleton Hs looked like it was in an industrial waste land on streeet view. Would you be interested to accommodate me -on my own- for a couple of nights, when I come over to view, happy of course to pay! It might help you a bit withthe rent!

Hi Roughseas,thanks for the info, there's very little property on the market @ moment, which was why I was querying Devils T.Rd. which seems to have some "for sales" that have been there  for months eg Northview Terr!

Well I have a nice view on the Rock... I can see ships and the see at the end of the Road and on the left side there's the graveyard which, at least for me, is very nice as well.

Cheers

Filomena House has the Graveyard, the Church, the Undertaker and the Monumental Mason all within spitting distance.

The dead centre of Gibraltar.

I believe like many other properties in Gib although there is allocated underground parking, to access the flats one has to go outside and also climb numerous steps which can be a problem in bad weather or when carrying heavy shopping.

Yup., it was Northview Terrace I looked at.  Couldn't remember the name.

Just forget DTR.

Filomena, what GOB said.

If you need cheap accom in Gib, you can always get a room in Ocean Heights or Governors Inn both central from around £40 a night. I used OH when I was looking which is why i don't think it is too bad a place apart from oncosts as a bought place.  I booked through Herald Travel, very helpful. And no I don't get commisson!

Very little property on the market?  Town Area? £179K with two beds. Looks ok to me. Isn't that what you are looking for?

Hi Chums,

thanks for your help, we had kinda decided to rent in the short term as its impossible for us to get out to Gib to spend enough time viewing property and also I have a school age daughter who my wife insists must be in her new school in early Sept. As I don't get made redundant till 24 Sept and get the money I will use to buy a place, I had hoped to delay the move until after that date. But I gave in to my wife and decided to rent in the short term. Flats are going within hours of appearing on the estate agents' web pages, so having seen a 2 bed in Water Gardens which looked a lot better than similarly priced ones just off main street, we phoned the morning. Were told they had had 1 viewing but 2 more planned this pm, so we phoned back and told them we'd take it over the phone without viewing, went into town and transfered the deposit through this morning, they've received it OK... So we are sorted, need to agree a start date - hopefully late Aug - but it depends on the landlord. Anyway we will either fly or drive over late Aug/early Sept.

So next question, what's Water Gardens and area like? We'll rent for 6 months, then buy somewhere small for a few yrs, then if all goes OK we'll sell up our 5 bed UK house and perhaps buy a bigger Gib place and maybe rent out the smaller one. We already have tenants for our UK house. As I'm not getting any younger (as they say) the prospect of flat living is more attractive than it used to be. Another question while I think of it, well 2, does anyone know about whether its better - and possible - to choose to pay tax in Gib on UK property rental income,rather than in the UK? 2nd question, where's the nearest Ikea? Ronda?

Thanks Nick.

Now that is what I call being decisive, well done.

Watergardens is not bad, has always been popular especially with rentals.
There are two different types of two bedroom flats there, one has a rather small second bedroom and faces to the East and South. Depending on the floor, up to 11 they can have excellent views to the Rock, up the Costa Del Sol and into Morocco, but overlook Ocean Village which can be very noisey through the night especially at weekends.
The larger 2 bedrooms face West and North with views again to Morocco, and Spain, slightly quieter as they have a little shelter from Ocean Village.

The ground floors are a variety of shops, bars,restaurants / takeaways. Whilst the first floors are offices with flats for the next 11 floors plus a penthouse.

Parking is communial with a pass and can be overcrowded especially in the daytime with the office/shop workers. But it is so central that everything is very easy walking distance, even Gibs major supermarket Morrisons is just a few minutes walk away.
Once you are resident in Gib then I believe the tax should be paid here.

Ikea has branches in Jerez and Malaga both roughly the same distance by car. However the road to Malaga has tolls whilst to Jerez there are non.

Regards

Grumpy

Water gardens is ok.  We've got a couple of mates there, one has a one-bed flat (700pcm) and the other has a two-bed one (a grand pcm).  Only seen the one bed one but it was nice enough. 

It is a convenient location and if you can't be bothered to traipse to Morrisons, there is Ramsons underneath which I think is a pretty decent shop.  Great for Indian spices. 

It's also on a couple of bus routes too, if you don't want to walk wherever, ie town, Morrisons, Rosia, Eastern beach.

Flat life is fine.  We have a tiny one-bed flat off main street.  It's extremely easy to get used to living in small space, in retrospect we've always really lived in our kitchens anyway,so having everything within arm's reach makes life easier.  The only problem is we have too much junk.

When it comes to buying, if you want outside space, think about somewhere like King's Wharf, they do have nice balconies.  But you can ask about the pros and cons of different blocks nearer the time.  Also watch which floor you buy on, if lifts are out of order/there is a power cut, being on the 20th floor isn't much fun.

Most people we know go to Málaga IKEA and zap up there in no time.  Costs at the moment on the toll road are around €15 if you use all three, otherwise its around (from memory) €6.50 for the Fuengirola/Marbella stretch, €4.95 for the bit around San Pedo and around three is for the short part Sotogrande to Estepona.

The main advantage is that they are much quieter, obviously owing to the cost.  Málaga IKEA is very accessible which may be part of its popularity.  Don't know about the Jerez one. There is also one in Sevilla.

The road to Jerez is beautiful across lots of lakes.  We drove to Arcos a while back and it was incredibly quiet too.

Tax, I don't think you will have a choice.  If you are resident in Gib, you pay Gib taxes on all income earned from wherever in the world, I think that's pretty standard practice.  Two ways of paying tax, either allowance-based, or 20% flat rate on all earnings.  Now, depending on your income, if it's relatively low the allowance-based one is better. If you are raking it in, 20% is better. There is an on-line calculator on the Govt tax site.

What you can't do is opt for the 20% option and change back.  Once you take that one you are stuck with it.  There is also a first time buyers allowance, so you may want to think about that for when you buy. It won't be available if you take the 20% straight off.  There's probably a basic salary at which the 20% is better but I don't know what that is.  Or you could take the allowance option, use them up in your first year, and then go for 20%.

If you are using an estate agency in the UK, you may have problems with them wanting to deduct tax at source. We had that, and managed to sell the house before it got to sticking point.  If you are doing it privately, less of an issue.


Welcome to Gib.

Hi Chums,

thanks for your very helpful replies, yes we are renting one of the 2 bed flats, it looks like the one with the small 2nd bedroom. No marina views but has a balcony and double aspect living room! £1k / mth! Will be a squeeze as our elder daughter will return from her gap year in Oz with my bro soon, so the 2 will have to share, we'll need a bunk bed! I keep telling her she needs to get a live-in nanny job in Marbella with a Russian oligarch! Tax wise, thanks for the advice, I'll opt for the allowance based option in Gib, as long as its possible, can you get UK occupational pension paid gross to you in Gib, ie no UK tax? Ikeas, sounds good, promised youngest daughter will buy her same beloved Ikea bedroom furniture in the new home, hence the need to know locations...

Thanks as ever, more questions will follow, so don't relax yet!

Nick.

Sorry, pension is the one thing I can't provide advice on. Every time I get near it, tbe UK govt pushes up the age and I have no idea what is happening with my work one, not today's worry as I'm not yet 60.  Although I feel it.

There is an issue with state pensions about the UK wanting to claw back the tax (a bit like the rental, yes?) but I honestly don't have the detail.  Some people have struggled with UK pensions, others have had no problem. Gib tax office owes us a refund from the last six years.  One of those issues you have to live with.

IF, you can sort it before you leave, so much the better.

In terms of buying a place, you still get MIRAS here!

The flats with the small second bedroom do overlook the marina,( Ocean Village / Marina Bay / Sheppards, call it what you like )


If you have photos of the kitchen then in the smaller flat the kitchen window is alongside the lefthand wall whilst in the larger flat the window is central.

Small flat :-
http://propertygibraltar.com/details/to … _NPGITA809

Larger flat :-
http://propertygibraltar.com/details/to … s_7_GR0005

My UK pension is paid gross

Hi Chums,

at work today - hence planty of time to email! Thanks for replies. Pensions, I was thinking of my occupational one, thanks for confirming you can get it paid gross Grumpy! State one - I too won't get mine till 66 either (altho I hear its 65 still in Gib, for Gibbies only?). Flats, yes its the small one, in fact the one you linked to Grumpy, is in fact the one we have put the deposit on with NP! It should change to "rented" soon I hope!

thanks as ever, Nick.

Ref pension I was referring to my UK state pittance being paid gross,
On the Gib tax declaration you have to declare Occupational Pensions but not State Pensions.

Regards

Grumpy

re Gib pension, not sure.  We've (ie he's) been paying in since we've been here, but no idea what if anything we will get.

Depending on your age, probably not old enough given that you have a young daughter, there is also a neat little community service number.

When you get to 60 you are entitled to apply for this (depending on salary - used to be open to everyone but they decided greedy lawyers were milking the system so now there is a cap on it).

You do a couple of hours a week and get around £400 every quarter. I may be out on the figures.

Because there are so many cross-border workers, it's a way of giving Gib residents a bonus once they get to 60 without discriminating against CBWs. 

One of our neighbours works at the old people's home on Sunday lunchtimes, another used to take disabled children out, and another would do small electrical works in older people's flats. Depends whether or not you have a skill.

Lots of people seem to work forever in Gib!

I did go to see a pensions/financial advisor and didn't get a word of sense out of them.  Fortunately it was free.  I suspect the fact that I had no interest in buying any products may have contributed to that.

Do your homework over the next couple of months - you've obv started.

I've got a page on my blog for questions about Gib, so you may find some info on there too. (roughseas blog)

To get a full Gib pension you have to contribute for about 43 years.
The Community Service payment is only applicable to Gib residents and pays about £900 every three months, however you need to have worked/contributed here for about 15 years.

RSITM if you go along to the John Mackintosh Hall at 10:30 any Tuesday morning there are people from the Gibraltar Senior Citizens Association who will explain it all free of charge, plus any other queries.
They are very helpful

Grumpy

Hi Chums again,

thanks for helpful replies yesterday, particularly the info on Water Gardens area and flats. We avidly watched Britain in the Sun last night on C5 - last of the series - not very good TV but we spotted Water Gardens so we feel like we almost live there alerady! Do you get all the UK channels, BBC 1 2 3 4 etc, ITV 1 2 3 4 etc C4, C5, E4, my favourite Dave (old comedy shows eg QI)? 

Also we have been listening to radio Gib on the iPad, it gives you the feel of the place quite well, we also watched the local TV news on the iPad! My youngest daughter is 14, she was very keen on the Gib music festival you have every year! I am an oldie by the way, 58 soon, I just had a 2nd daughter too late in life - fool! Hence all the problems with schools etc. If it wasnt for the kids we would be living in peaceful retirement by now in Lanzarote!

Some Qs: Are UK style plugs used there? What mobile phone Co's are there? Any others, or is it just a GibTel monopoly? I know home phones are a GibTel monopoly... £16 per month for phone & broadband isnt it? Do you need air con in summer at night in the bedrooms to sleep? My main worries are about us accessing free healthcare if we aren't registered residents, I wont have a job and may not have adequate income to pass their residence test, at least until my occ. pension and rental income comes through. I could I  guess see a private Dr, I have high blood pressure/cholestrol and need regular meds... My wife hopefully as a youngster - only just 50 - will get a job OK, either as a teacher or something else if neccesary, and get registered as a  resident, same for kids as her dependents, but not sure if same applies to me...

Take care, thanks for info! Nick.

avocastreetrandwick wrote:

Hi Chums again,

thanks for helpful replies yesterday, particularly the info on Water Gardens area and flats. We avidly watched Britain in the Sun last night on C5 - last of the series - not very good TV but we spotted Water Gardens so we feel like we almost live there alerady! Do you get all the UK channels, BBC 1 2 3 4 etc, ITV 1 2 3 4 etc C4, C5, E4, my favourite Dave (old comedy shows eg QI)? 

There are two TV providers available in Watergardens
1) Montague is the most established in those blocks and personally not very good.
2) Gibsat who's office is under block 2 far better service , slightly more expensive.However much cheaper than the UK TV licence.

Both companies should be providing the channels you mention.

You will find that one or the other will most likely already be supplied under your rental.

Please note that the TV in Gib is cable and any TV should be equiped with a cable tuner, most newer ones are.



Some Qs: Are UK style plugs used there?

Yes

What mobile phone Co's are there? Any others, or is it just a GibTel monopoly? I know home phones are a GibTel monopoly... £16 per month for phone & broadband isnt it?

Gibtel is the only mobile operator.
Gibtel is £32 per month for landline and 4GB internet, no free calls. There is another company sapphire.gi which I believe services Watergardens

Do you need air con in summer at night in the bedrooms to sleep?

It's borderline. I fitted aircon last winter, the price was too good to resist and although I used it for heating I have not yet used it for cooling

My main worries are about us accessing free healthcare if we aren't registered residents, I wont have a job and may not have adequate income to pass their residence test, at least until my occ. pension and rental income comes through. I could I  guess see a private Dr, I have high blood pressure/cholestrol and need regular meds... My wife hopefully as a youngster - only just 50 - will get a job OK, either as a teacher or something else if neccesary, and get registered as a  resident, same for kids as her dependents, but not sure if same applies to me...

Take care, thanks for info! Nick.

Regards

Grumpy

I've had mixed reviews from UK friends who have watched it.  But still, it gives an idea.

I'm not up on TV as we don't have one.  Our neighbours seem to watch loads of channels.

One tip for your daughter, if she doesn't speak Spanish, it would be a good idea to have a crash course over the next couple of months.  Schoolkids vary, sometimes they speak English with each other (schooling is done in English), but in conversation they often speak llanito/español.  If she does speak Spanish, she'll still need to jump up a gear.

As Grumps says, yes, technically the electricity system is British.  But some of the appliances you will buy on the high street come with Spanish plugs, so you need to ensure you bargain for an adapter out of the shop person.  I also recommend surge protectors.  I got caught out by that in Spain, and it stuffed the hard drive on my computer.  On a related topic, mostly we have bayonet light bulbs, but sometimes you will find screw fittings, depending on who has done the electrics.

I use Gibtel for mobile. They also do the friends and family thing for both landline and mobile, last I heard it was four, but I don't ring many people so not an issue for me.

Thirty two quid is correct. £20 for landline and £12 for broadband.  I thought sapphire did internet too.  Sometimes it's easier to go with the main/monopoly provider.

We don't have air con in either Gib or Spain. Nasty stuff.  We do have fans, but that's mainly for when mosquitoes sneak inside so it keeps them away.  They are around at the moment.  Unless we hear one we don't use the fan though.  We didn't use the oil-filled radiator last winter, and we haven't used our sitting room ceiling fan this year either. 

Wait a minute.  You're coming without a job????  Oh well.  I've never got a job here in the last six years, that's with two degrees and a few other quals, but maybe a teacher may get one.  But to get the kids into school you will need residence.  Paperwork last year for us took four to six weeks (can't remember the detail) for the permit and card to come through.  That won't fit with your timetable, re schooling, pension etc.  To get the res without a job, you need to take out private health care insurance and provide proof of it.  If you need to see a doctor for meds, College Clinic is meant to be OK, based in Regal House, Queensway. Try Dr Shelley. 

If your wife gets a job, then you should be able to get residency as well as yet another of her dependents.  I've always got mine on the back of my partner.  Rental contract, employment contract, two passport photos, and a fiver per card (last I knew anyway). 

Can't give you any more detail on the schooling as I'm not a parent.  If you are Jewish there are Jewish schools. Otherwise, apart from state ones, I've no idea what else there is apart from the private ones up the coast.  You may, but I have no idea, be able to get your residency sorted on the basis that you will be getting a pension, but you would need to check with Dept Immigration at Joshua Hassan House.  Only open mornings of course.  They have tightened up a lot on residency, in large part because lots of people were claiming to live in Gib and were actually living in Spain.  We also knew people who would come and live in gib over summer so they could qualify with a gib address for the new school year, and come September, clear off back to Spain.

I'm sure you'll love it here.  Britain in the sun however it is not.

Hi Chums,

once again thanks for all the info! yes I am coming without a job, but am taking early retirement, so with my occ. pension and rental income we will be OK. Paying rent is a drain but unavoidable as finding a place to buy without being there isn't really viable. Once we buy an open market property the monthly outgoings will go down! At some stage we decide if we want to sell our UK house, we will then be able to invest in a 2nd buy to let property in Gib, so that will give us  a little more income than the UK house does. I didn't realise rentals in Gib were so exepnsive! I emigrated to Oz - Sydney - and lived there for 3 yrs in the 80s, so I know what a hot climate is like, Gib should be a  bit cooler, Sydney is on the same latitude as Casablanca! Strangely enough the anti pommy attitudes partly drove me back, so Gib's British patriotism will be nice!

When we finally get out there I'll buy you all a drink!

thanks Nick.

Er. Were we there at the same time? Sydney I mean.  And where did you live? We were in Potts Point. Got married in the Register Office in Sydney.

Gib is not cooler than Sydney because of the humidity, but it doesn't really matter.

We'll be taking up your offer for the odd schooner, well pints and halves here, but you know what I mean.  We can be really boring and talk loads about Aus in the 80s (my partner first went in 79 - you're virtually the same age as him anyway)

Look forward to meeting you.

Hi RSitM,

Were we there at the same time? I was in Sydney from 85 to 88. I lived in Randwick on Avoca St, opposite the girls schl, I worked at NSW  Uni just over the rd. My bro has been there since 72 - last of the £10 poms! Where's Potts Point, north shore?

Sorry to hear Gib is not cooler than Sydney, always thought Sydney was very humid, much worse then S. Europe, but maybe that's because I was working in Sydney and not there on holiday.

Ahh... schooners, middies, "pots" in QLD, BYO ethnic restaurants on Oxford St, yep we can be really boring and talk Oz in the 80s. Look forward to meeting you too!

Nick.

We overlapped briefly, I was there 85/86. 

I've still got two cousins there, down Adelaide way (unless they've moved).  My uncle was a ten pound pom too.

PP is between Woolloomooloo and Kings Cross.  Just slightly east of town centre.  A quick walk into town across the botanical gardens.  My partner worked at Cockatoo Island on the dockyard, so would walk in and out to Circular Quay. He first went to Aus (Tas) in 79 so can easily out bore us.

Gib's all right, it can be humid, but we also get a sea breeze.  Sometimes.  Spain is hotter, but less humid, well, depending on where you are of course.

Drop me a pm or something when you arrive.