What's your view about the pace of work at your work place

My View is same as yours.. It might look like quite a different world when you step out but however it also depends on individuals adaptability and keeping in touch with fast paced colleagues would add an advantage. Switching would take more time for those who spends more time here.

kiran_2501 wrote:

My View is same as yours.. It might look like quite a different world when you step out but however it also depends on individuals adaptability and keeping in touch with fast paced colleagues would add an advantage. Switching would take more time for those who spends more time here.

yeah, but this slow pace, unprofessional attitude, no ethics really destroys you. I am kinda, afraid if I move from here to even dubai... I would be pushed to gear up the same momentum goin which I had with my 6 years of experience with top-notch foreign banks..

pkmusd wrote:

yeah, but this slow pace, unprofessional attitude, no ethics really destroys you.

Gotta agree with this.

Alliecat wrote:

pkmusd wrote:

yeah, but this slow pace, unprofessional attitude, no ethics really destroys you.

Gotta agree with this.

yeah, it is really disturbing..
when I face all this it really disappoints. I know this place is insulated from economic downturn but still.. there is something that keeps hitting your mind..

pkmusd wrote:

yeah, but this slow pace, unprofessional attitude, no ethics really destroys you.

Yep. You can change it only if you're the one in charge. So far, the KSA experience is not worthwhile to mention on my CV. Plus, I know for a fact that respectable corporations are dodging manpower with extensive KSA experience... because that experience means laziness (I presume this is the case for only a few industries/lines of business). People here are working "by ear" without any proper scheduling, no briefing... It only depends on you to stay motivated and gain knowledge through other "channels".

Bruckner wrote:

pkmusd wrote:

yeah, but this slow pace, unprofessional attitude, no ethics really destroys you.

Yep. You can change it only if you're the one in charge. So far, the KSA experience is not worthwhile to mention on my CV. Plus, I know for a fact that respectable corporations are dodging manpower with extensive KSA experience... because that experience means laziness (I presume this is the case for only a few industries/lines of business). People here are working "by ear" without any proper scheduling, no briefing... It only depends on you to stay motivated and gain knowledge through other "channels".

Exactly, my point and my feeling. Here, you're not allowed to utilize your capabilities and potential, your local co-workers are at advantage while you're at disadvantage.. There are many countries, who actually don't consider KSA experience as they take it as not a comparable market..
I am thankful to God, that I am paid well here in Saudi but this unprofessional-ism that we see everyday keeps hitting my head.
and this is not just restricted to work place, your life is wrapped around it.
I am afraid, that if I move out.. I won;t give way to pedestrians, won't give way to any car irrespective of yield of way.. won't smile or say hi generally..

pkmusd wrote:

I am afraid, that if I move out.. I won;t give way to pedestrians, won't give way to any car irrespective of yield of way.. won't smile or say hi generally..

Don't think that far and take the advice from one of my coworkers "Just enjoy!"

Bruckner wrote:

pkmusd wrote:

I am afraid, that if I move out.. I won;t give way to pedestrians, won't give way to any car irrespective of yield of way.. won't smile or say hi generally..

Don't think that far and take the advice from one of my coworkers "Just enjoy!"

or Just take a chill pill instead I would say "Khalli Walli" (hope you understand this bit or arabic).

This reminds me of the famous joke "Middle eastern attitude of work".. have you heard that?

pkmusd wrote:

or Just take a chill pill instead I would say "Khalli Walli" (hope you understand this bit or arabic).

This reminds me of the famous joke "Middle eastern attitude of work".. have you heard that?

I know what khalli walli means but never heard the joke.

----------------------------------------------------
"Middle eastern attitude of work"

Habibi, if someone can do it, Let him do it.
And habibi, if no can do it, wallahe how can I do it!
-----------------------------------------------------

You know what blows me away here?  The complete and absolute disregard of confidentiality. Everybody knows your business.  HR people chat and gossip about employees and medical employees do the same thing. 

You can't trust anybody, not even your boss (or doctor), with any bit of personal information.

These things would be SO grounds for a law suit in Western countries but here, nobody winks an eye and can't understand why you're making an issue of it. God helpppppppppp meeeeeeeeee !!

There are people whose SOLE job is to revise company policies, which is utterly ridiculous since these policies are applied so arbitrarily or not at all in the case of somebody with wasta.

Alliecat wrote:

You know what blows me away here?  The complete and absolute disregard of confidentiality. Everybody knows your business.  HR people chat and gossip about employees and medical employees do the same thing. 

You can't trust anybody, not even your boss (or doctor), with any bit of personal information.

These things would be SO grounds for a law suit in Western countries but here, nobody winks an eye and can't understand why you're making an issue of it. God helpppppppppp meeeeeeeeee !!

Thats it, this is the frustration that all of us have.. I had a accident last week and while going through the process I realzied how deep shit this is.. Arrogant faces, processes full of stupidity.. ranging from govt to private sector. This kills me.. but I think if I am gonna lvie here for quite some time 10 yrs I will be the same.. I will be IBM specialist too (They say IBM is the principle of life here in Saudi and it means InshaAllah - Bukra and Malesh).. in every facet of life here, you face IBM

Alliecat wrote:

You know what blows me away here?  The complete and absolute disregard of confidentiality. Everybody knows your business.  HR people chat and gossip about employees and medical employees do the same thing. 

You can't trust anybody, not even your boss (or doctor), with any bit of personal information.

These things would be SO grounds for a law suit in Western countries but here, nobody winks an eye and can't understand why you're making an issue of it. God helpppppppppp meeeeeeeeee !!

Let alone the western countries, this doesn't even happen in the professional companies in Pakistan.

Alliecat wrote:

You can't trust anybody, not even your boss (or doctor), with any bit of personal information.

"Silence is a true friend who never betrays." said one great guy at some point in history

pkmusd wrote:

Habibi, if someone can do it, Let him do it.
And habibi, if no can do it, wallahe how can I do it!

Well, where there's a will... it's best to forget about it if someone is already at it.

Bruckner wrote:

Alliecat wrote:

You can't trust anybody, not even your boss (or doctor), with any bit of personal information.

"Silence is a true friend who never betrays." said one great guy at some point in history

pkmusd wrote:

Habibi, if someone can do it, Let him do it.
And habibi, if no can do it, wallahe how can I do it!

Well, where there's a will... it's best to forget about it if someone is already at it.

This was the joke, I was referring to

pkmusd wrote:

Thats it, this is the frustration that all of us have.. I had a accident last week and while going through the process I realzied how deep shit this is.. Arrogant faces, processes full of stupidity.. ranging from govt to private sector. This kills me.. but I think if I am gonna lvie here for quite some time 10 yrs I will be the same.. I will be IBM specialist too (They say IBM is the principle of life here in Saudi and it means InshaAllah - Bukra and Malesh).. in every facet of life here, you face IBM

I read something crazy a few weeks ago--something to the effect that 80% of the jobs in Saudi Arabia are government jobs.  The government just keeps creating new tiers of worthless jobs to keep people employed.  Would explain why they're going after the expat private sector now--making it more expensive to employ expats--in order to create jobs the government isn't paying for!

I know many diligent, hardworking Saudi's but they are grossly outnumbered by the lazy louts who have a management job by virtue of being somebody's second cousin.  And the problem is, with Saudi's working in the government sector, that they can't be gotten rid of; in essence, they have a job for life.

Alliecat wrote:

And the problem is, with Saudi's working in the government sector, that they can't be gotten rid of; in essence, they have a job for life.

There must be a bright side... although you might have to wait for it, given that it rained all day.

pkmusd wrote:

This was the joke, I was referring to

I know. The saying goes... "where there's a will, there's a way", implying that it's going to take a while to solve the problem/issue, but it's not impossible; which, extrapolated to the joke, it's best to forget the way and let someone else find it if no one is taking care of it yet.

The government spending and focus is on giving them the jobs rather than training them first and making them realize the importance of education.

I don't know whether you guys have noticed it or not, or may be its prevailing int he banking sector only.. that the education is not considered as an imperative criteria for hiring, promotions, bonus etc. reason being that this sector has >80% saudization ratio as a whole.

pkmusd wrote:

The government spending and focus is on giving them the jobs rather than training them first and making them realize the importance of education.

I don't know whether you guys have noticed it or not, or may be its prevailing int he banking sector only.. that the education is not considered as an imperative criteria for hiring, promotions, bonus etc. reason being that this sector has >80% saudization ratio as a whole.

Actually I have noticed that a great deal of emphasis is placed on having a piece of paper (MA or PhD) ... but nothing that they supposedly learned is required to be applied to the job.  And I hate to say this, but I've met many Saudi's whose English is SO bad (speaking/listening/reading/writing) but yet who have degrees from English speaking countries (England, USA, Australia, etc.) that I'm quite convinced they paid somebody else to do their work.

Alliecat wrote:

pkmusd wrote:

The government spending and focus is on giving them the jobs rather than training them first and making them realize the importance of education.

I don't know whether you guys have noticed it or not, or may be its prevailing int he banking sector only.. that the education is not considered as an imperative criteria for hiring, promotions, bonus etc. reason being that this sector has >80% saudization ratio as a whole.

Actually I have noticed that a great deal of emphasis is placed on having a piece of paper (MA or PhD) ... but nothing that they supposedly learned is required to be applied to the job.  And I hate to say this, but I've met many Saudi's whose English is SO bad (speaking/listening/reading/writing) but yet who have degrees from English speaking countries (England, USA, Australia, etc.) that I'm quite convinced they paid somebody else to do their work.

allie, you won't beleive I have a co-worked an MBA from one of the western countries.. and not even a single paragraph can be written properly.. I am surprised, how they manage to complete MBA.. I am really surprised..

pkmusd wrote:

I am surprised, how they manage to complete MBA.. I am really surprised..

You and me, both.  It makes me ashamed when their degree is from the USA.

Alliecat wrote:

pkmusd wrote:

I am surprised, how they manage to complete MBA.. I am really surprised..

You and me, both.  It makes me ashamed when their degree is from the USA.

Yeah, USA, UK and Australia. Iv seen gentleman studies from these countries.. I don't know if they have substandard programs catering  them or what..

pkmusd wrote:

Yeah, USA, UK and Australia. Iv seen gentleman studies from these countries.. I don't know if they have substandard programs catering  them or what..

Nah, they've got to be in programs where you submit papers as opposed to taking tests, and obviously they pay somebody else to write the papers.  That is the ONLY explanation.

The only think that at times frustrates is the weak corporate culture. Processes are disrespected and no one really cares to bring business ethics to the table.  Secondly, despite of millions of resident expats, the medium of communication in Govt and public sector institutes is still Arabic, English is almost nowhere.

As far as slow pace of work is concerned, well I am already overworked as I am one of those very few who have been incent with additional responsibilities as the rest don't use to work   Sometimes there is a feel of resentment that my colleagues have enough leisure time than me, but I use to overcome the dejection with a belief that diversification will add to my profile (though m not sure how long it will work  )

By and large, this is our own decision to work and stay here. Most of us must had been aware of the culture prevailing in KSA beforehand but somehow we used to put aside everything when it comes to a better salary.

malisohail wrote:

Most of us must had been aware of the culture prevailing in KSA before coming here but somehow we used put aside everything when it comes to a better salary.

Actually, while I knew an awful lot about KSA, having done my homework about all the social issues, I really had no idea of the lack of business ethics, etc.  It's not something that is generally discussed, and for obvious reasons.

I actually thought, considering the hoops I had to jump through to be hired here and obtain a visa, that everybody was highly qualified and that working here would be a big fat GOLD STAR on my CV. 

Oh well, live and learn!!

malisohail wrote:

The only think that at times frustrates is the weak corporate culture. Processes are disrespected and no one really cares to bring business ethics to the table.  Secondly, despite of millions of resident expats, the medium of communication in Govt and public sector institutes is still Arabic, English is almost nowhere.

As far as slow pace of work is concerned, well I am already overworked as I am one of those very few who have been incent with additional responsibilities as the rest don't use to work   Sometimes there is a feel of resentment that my colleagues have enough leisure time than me, but I use to overcome the dejection with a belief that diversification will add to my profile (though m not sure how long it will work  )

By and large, this is our own decision to work and stay here. Most of us must had been aware of the culture prevailing in KSA before coming here but somehow we used put aside everything when it comes to a better salary.

Sohail, its not about being overloaded or having a lot of work to do. Rather, its about the quality of work taken from you and then how you're respected for that work. I have worked in top foreign banks in Pakistan and the culture I am used to has taught me business ethics, professionalism and the framework that gives you the credit.
Even here in saudi, money is there but not the credit..

In my view, expat here is mostly stuck in his exit-reentry, iqama renewal, parents visit visa foe 30 day and then the renewals etc etc.. you dont come out of it. Specially, for some people its even worse that they have to deal with kafeel issues.

Referring to your question, that its our decision, yes! it is our decision considering the global downturn and I agree I am paid well and happy from financial perspective. But again, if you're in a s**t.. you don't say i am enjoying it that way..

@Alliet: yup live and learn. Working in KSA is something that we can't get to know merely through expat-blog, the crux is more visible through a real life experience.

@Masud: Again I would assert the fact that we are foremost and only person to evaluate and Judge the JD being offered. If you are hired as a senior risk analyst but you are forced to work as a cashier then it's a clear breach of your contract and this is something which needs an escalation by your ownself. I assume that SABB stands out much better when it comes to a work culture.

Every move has its associated pros and cons. You had been doing fabulous in Pakistan but weren't able to save much or almost nothing by end of a month (which also reflects on the standard of living and affordability).  Here you are dissatisfied at work on the cost of earning a good living.  If you choose to work in Aust or Scandinavia, the matrix will be different altogether: you'll save very less but the standard of living will be much better along with some satisfaction at work.

Undergoing horizontal rotation at work is kind of an interim solution to broaden your profile when you are subjected to a slow paced environment and low quality work.

malisohail wrote:

@Masud: Again I would assert the fact that we are foremost and only person to evaluate and Judge the JD being offered. If you are hired as a senior risk analyst but you are forced to work as a cashier then it's a clear breach of your contract and this is something which needs an escalation by your ownself. I assume that SABB stands out much better when it comes to a work culture.

Every move has its associated pros and cons. You had been doing fabulous in Pakistan but weren't able to save much or almost nothing by end of a month (which also reflects on the standard of living and affordability).  Here you are dissatisfied at work on the cost of earning a good living.  If you choose to work in Aust or Scandinavia, the matrix will be different altogether: you'll save very less but the standard of living will be much better along with some satisfaction at work.

Undergoing horizontal rotation at work is kind of an interim solution to broaden your profile when you are subjected to a slow paced environment and low quality work.

Yeah, definitely.. its a Trade off b/w Money and Quality
The purpose of discussion here is not just to highlight whats bad here.. but rather it is that working here.. makes you incompatible for premier market places such as US, London, Singapore, Hong Kong etc..

Most of these countries, doesn't consider Saudi Arabia as a comparable market.

Thanks for sharing your views.

Regards

Alliecat wrote:

malisohail wrote:

Most of us must had been aware of the culture prevailing in KSA before coming here but somehow we used put aside everything when it comes to a better salary.

Actually, while I knew an awful lot about KSA, having done my homework about all the social issues, I really had no idea of the lack of business ethics, etc.  It's not something that is generally discussed, and for obvious reasons.

I actually thought, considering the hoops I had to jump through to be hired here and obtain a visa, that everybody was highly qualified and that working here would be a big fat GOLD STAR on my CV. 

Oh well, live and learn!!

Yeah, that's the bottom-line :_

its all about leaving work at work.

it only consumes a small part of your day.
get out, find something else to do
i was on saudi TV for a press confrence wendesday
what have you done this week?


concentrate less on the subpar coworkers and having to take the load for everyone else, and long wait times for anything to happen and have more fun.  it helps out, trust me

Freshlikesushi wrote:

its all about leaving work at work.

it only consumes a small part of your day.
get out, find something else to do
i was on saudi TV for a press confrence wendesday
what have you done this week?


concentrate less on the subpar coworkers and having to take the load for everyone else, and long wait times for anything to happen and have more fun.  it helps out, trust me

I should probably be ashamed to admit this, but quite a while ago I decided to employ the old 'if you can't beat them, join them' strategy.  This really reduced stress and frustration levels (it was insane to put pressure on myself when nobody else seemed concerned about deadlines, outcomes, etc.).

Oh but let me add this:  the crazy thing is that my outcomes happen to be GREAT.  I'm inclined to think they wouldn't be if I were taking it all too seriously.

Alliecat wrote:

I should probably be ashamed to admit this, but quite a while ago I decided to employ the old 'if you can't beat them, join them' strategy.  This really reduced stress and frustration levels (it was insane to put pressure on myself when nobody else seemed concerned about deadlines, outcomes, etc.).

Oh but let me add this:  the crazy thing is that my outcomes happen to be GREAT.  I'm inclined to think they wouldn't be if I were taking it all too seriously.

Yup, that's a typical 'Khali Wali Strategy'; it works incredibly well quite often

i tend the buck the norm.  But LUCKILY in my section we have the bosses that care and dont mind sticking up for me.

just the other day a saudi kicked me out of the office i was inspecting, 30 minutes later he was in the BIG bosses office getting reamed and working the weekend.

so i guess im a lil fortunate.

@sush Excellent point.  I never rock the boat because my boss fears the higher levels are out to get HIM and so *he* tries to fly  under the radar.  I know if I alienate anybody I'm absolutely on my own so I generally play nice

This topic seems like a sequel to another "Horrible Bosses" in the making..