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Brown Outs In Dumaguete

Enzyte Bob
#1
I happen to watch Paul in Dumaguete (old dogs new tricks) say they experienced a planned brown out. China owns 40% of the Philippines power grid, good grief, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, brown outs in Manila.

70% of all Solar Panels are manufactured in China. China is bankrolling green energy projects all over the world. But while is this Jolly Green Giant building 36 coal fired plants?
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See also
coach53
#2
Remember though there would probably have been very few solar without China, because before China got involved they did cost far to much to be interesting, but China started mass production which made prices dropped much.
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Enzyte Bob
#3
Remember though there would probably have been very few solar without China, because before China got involved they did cost far to much to be interesting, but China started mass production which made prices dropped much.
- @coach53
The combination of China's subsidizing manufacturing, low wages and currency devaluation is a major impact on price. Solar & Wind can never sustain the loss of fossil energy,

The cost of alternate energy will only drag economies down, while China builds 36 more coal generating plants.
1 member reacted to this post
pnwcyclist
#4
I thought we were going to have a scheduled outage yesterday,  but we missed it, lol.

In the US the cheapest per kWh is now solar and wind. Yes, using Chinese panels, not sure about the wind turbines, probably US or European manufacture. Coach is right, the Chinese panels really did bring the cost down.  But solar doesn't have to use photovoltaic panels - concentrated thermal solar from mirrors and steam generation is very effective and used in the southwest US effectively. My US home is 100% solar from the utility - bill is $65/mo, fixed.. year round, and my home is all electric, so that includes AC and heat and hot water.

No one ever thought renewables would be generating 12% of the nations power. But we still have a long way to go to slow carbon emissions, so I’m a proponent of nuclear. And covering the desert with solar and wind. Too bad about all those coal fired plants in China. Lets move manufacturing back to the US. Sure stuff would cost more, too bad. Less is more..
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Michaelm54
#5
@Enzyte Bob
The Bataan Nuclear Power Plant was completed in 1986 but never put on line. The reasoning was the Chernobyl event and corrupt kickbacks, I suspect meaning it was known to be unsafe.I’ll check out Paul’s thing but there’s nothing remotely like the EIA here and information is sketchy. As far as I can tell Philippines imports  430,000 barrels of liquids (oil, gas, diesel) per day. The one and only refinery in Bataan has the capacity for 177,000 barrels a day. That leaves 252,000 barrels a day unaccounted for. Meaning rather, that it’s imported as refined fuels. I found one source that stated 52% of that refined stuff is imported from China. It’s the same geopolitical stranglehold Russia has over EU.
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Fred
#6
I happen to watch Paul in Dumaguete (old dogs new tricks) say they experienced a planned brown out. China owns 40% of the Philippines power grid, good grief, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, brown outs in Manila.

70% of all Solar Panels are manufactured in China. China is bankrolling green energy projects all over the world. But while is this Jolly Green Giant building 36 coal fired plants?
- @Enzyte Bob

Then we come to the real world.

One country (I will leave you to guess) is China's big enemy because China (for reasons you may work out yourself but some have been covered here)  is far better at manufacturing than western countries.
The largest losing country is looking at how to stop oil imports to China in the event they decide to be total bloody idiots and start a war.
As China doesn't really like being hostage to that country, they put a lot of effort into developing renewal energy and energy storage systems. With fossil fuel prices on the rise and an end in sight to their supply, renewables are all the rage.
So, due to unadulterated stupidity along with aggression by one, the other is using the tech and effort (and seriously canny capitalism) to produce the vast majority of world supply of solar panels and batteries.
As a bonus, the near sighted country invested in oil and gas (and invaded places to steal it), whilst the other went for securing most of the raw materials (RREs, Lithium, Nickel, and others) required to manufacture batteries.
Strange as it seems, and idiotic as he was, Trump did the simgle most damage to China with his flailing in the dark attempt to buy Greenland. In fact China had massive RRE contracts there that were lost as a result of interference from various parties. It was eventually put down to environmentalists, but some pieces suggest a different story.

Israel is doing rather well but take a guess which country their innovators are partnering with.
Germany also has some excellent designs in the pipeline, but guess who they decided to partner with.

When it boils down past politics and BS, one country was stupid and looked to the past assuming it was also the future, whilst the other manipulated everything it could in order to become the world leader in the major technologies that will power this century.
That's really pissing one country off because they can't catch up and know it.

As a note, China is third on the list of countries publishing scientic papers on Nuclear Fusion, just behind Japan and offering about a third as many as the United States - However, China holds the record for the longest sustained fusion reaction.
Many talk - China does.

The above may sound like I'm some sort of China fanboi, but the post is the result of reported facts from industry press and a little personal  experience.

As for your brown-outs. I just have to press the order button and I will have my first solar power system. This is a test set intended to run the fridges, fans, and other stuff in the event of a power outage (we get a lot here).
It won't power the air conditioners but it will cover basic stuff. Everything on the list except the charge controller (very cheap) is usable on a far larger system and it can be upgraded by adding more panels and/or batteries as I go along.
Commercial installations don't come cheap because the companies tend to quote with loads of batteries, but smaller, home brew systems are now easily affordable and simple to put together.

There goes the solution for your problems. Easy, cheap, and sorts out the lot for less than 200 USD. Yes, that was two hundred bucks, not a typo.
3 members reacted to this post
Cheryl
#7
Hello everyone,

Please note that several messages had to be deleted from this thread.

The messages posted here went way too far. From off-topic to personal attacks to politics.

None of you are new to the forum, so no reminder of the code of conduct is necessary.

Such posts will be permanently removed from the forum and we will not tolerate insults to any member.

Thank you,

Cheryl
Expat.com team
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danfinn
#8
@Enzyte Bob Those Chinese solar panels will not help much during brownouts for most of the hookups here in Dumaguete. It seems people buy these grid-tie systems because they are fairly cheap but all it does is feed power back into the grid and reduce your power bill after a 6 month approval process. Grid tie does not store energy to get you through a brownout, after customers learn,  after committing to the purchase. To store power you need very expensive lithium ion batteries that have a lifetime of 7-10 years. You might spend $10K on batteries or more to power a 10KVA load for 12 hours until recharged again. You can always ask the installer to quote the storage batteries but the ads I see always feature the much less exoensive grid tie systems. Don't get me wrong, grid tie can pay off but by itself does not replace a fossil fuel whole house generator to solve the brownoit problems.
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Enzyte Bob
#9
@pnwcyclist. . . . . Too bad about all those coal fired plants in China. Lets move manufacturing back to the US. Sure stuff would cost more, too bad. Less is more..

***************************************************************************
(1) China buys 1,180 million tons of coal from United States
(2) China has 3,037 coal burning generating plants. . . . . . United States has 241
(3) China has almost one new plant coming on line each week
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Fred
#10
The US uses 0.75 billion short tons compared with China's 5+ billion tons.

However, if all the manufacturers moved to the US, that country would use 5 billion tons instead.

Not a lot of 'green' gain there, but everything would cost more so the world's economy would slow, thus more unemployment, so less disposable income, so the US produced products would be too expensive,  so manufacturers would move to China.

Oh, that's what happened before.
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coach53
#11
Lets move manufacturing back to the US. Sure stuff would cost more, too bad.
- @Enzyte Bob
As I have explained rather detailed both earlier and recently thats utopic - OR if it become a "war" with protection custom fees, then everyone will loose... 
When Trump talked about doing such, then EU got annoyed and said
if you do that, then we will do the same to you...
After that I didnt hear any such from Trump. Did he get home any significant numbers of jobs?


- -
Concerning China its some funny USA opened up trades with China expecting to sell much more to China than buying.  (Typical American far to high believes of USA.)
It became multiple the opposite...  :)
Enzyte Bob
#12
The US uses 0.75 billion short tons compared with China's 5+ billion tons.

However, if all the manufacturers moved to the US, that country would use 5 billion tons instead.

- @Fred
(1) There is no IF, very little manufacturing will actually return to the US.
(2) The US  has shut down coal producing plants and will continue to do so.
(3) China is increasing coal producing plants almost weekly and will continue to do so.

So I believe your hypothesis is irrelevant.
danfinn
#13
@Fred i disagree. The US would never need to use as much coal as China. For example, our natural gas reserves dwarf those in the rest of the world including SaudiArabia and it is clean energy. Then there is nuclear and hydro. No reason not to relocate manufacturing back to the US. It would also be good for the environmemt IF you believe in that anthropogenic climate change BS.
Fred
#14
If memory serves, US electricity generation is about 20/20% nuke/enewable, the rest fossil fuels.
However, the really dirty one, coal, is in decline.
Enzyte Bob
#15
Lets move manufacturing back to the US. Sure stuff would cost more, too bad.
- @Enzyte Bob
************************************************************
Coach 53 attributed the above quote from me, it never happened.



Fred
#16
China, last time I looked, was at 50 something percent coal but rapidly dropping in favor of renewable.
However, they're still the greatest single polluter in the world by country, but fall second to the US if measured per capita.
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Fred
#17

@Fred  IF you believe in that anthropogenic climate change BS.

- @danfinn
I do believe in climate change for a number of reasons, but mostly because only politicians with an agenda deny it.
Never trust someone with a dog in a race.

However, even if you don't believe in it, there's no denying the health problems caused by dirty fuels.
2 members reacted to this post
Michaelm54
#18
@Fred thanks for the post, watching where China is buying up farmland (and Bill Gates for that matter). I’m just finishing up building our house in a farming community. Two things I’m interested in and know nothing about is a solar power system and water filtering. How were you buying your solar stuff? We’re in north eastern Zamboanga Del Norte. Dipolog is the closest city. I’m sure there would be solar installers there but I like to tinker so maybe a DIY might work for me.
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Fred
#19
I'm going to build a test system with a single100 peak panel, a small charge controller, and a 1000w inverter. This will power a bunch of small items including fans and LED night lights.
In other words, when the power disappears, we'll be something like reasonable. It should be enough to keep the fridges running as well.
If everything goes to plan, I intend to expand it with extra panels so I can run my office air con from solar during the day. After that, more batteries so it will run at night.
The gear is coming from an online shop I trust to actually deliver the products as they promise.
My air cons are both old and use a lot more power than modern units so they're about to get changed as well. The AC change drops the required peak power by roughly 35% from current needs to 350W each when they're at full blast.
That makes both panel and battery needs much smaller and cheaper.
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coach53
#20
If realy want to do DIY , there are fragile solar cells to buy at Alibaba and mount together from around 200 USD plus transport and custom per 1 kW.  But need to build the cover and connect all.  If finding it ok to buy a minimi order. At a hasty look the smallest minimi order is cells to 8 kW.
pnwcyclist
#21
Michael, solar PV is easy and fun to play with. I say do it yourself.. are you already on the grid or not? If not, you could build a nice off grid system (with batteries).

I took a workshop years ago and we did a couple installs on homes. At the time I wasn't working.. so I later bought a couple of Sharp 80w solar panels, a Xantrex charge controller and an inverter, to play with. It all cost about $1200.. would probably be under $500 now, lol.. But I got busy and never hooked it up. Still have it all in the garage at home, just need a battery.

Fred, you got me excited to mess around with it when i get back.  We have plenty of sun in AZ..

Your AC must be only .4 hp? It doesn't take much to cool one room, but there will be inverter losses.
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Enzyte Bob
#22
If realy want to do DIY , there are fragile solar cells to buy at Alibaba and mount together from around 200 USD plus transport and custom per 1 kW.  But need to build the cover and connect all.  If finding it ok to buy a minimi order. At a hasty look the smallest minimi order is cells to 8 kW.
- @coach53

Generally purchases from Alibaba is for resellers. . . . . . I have ordered multiple times from AliExpress which is geared for individuals for personal use.

A note about AliExpress, they take charge cards, no c.o.d.    They processed my card through a US bank, so no 3% foreign fee. They have distribution centers all over the world. So your order may not be shipped from China.
Fred
#23
A solar system is actually not a lot as it's all modular. The only real thing to consider is the current each cable has to handle. 1000W at 240 volts is only a few amps, but the same at 12 volts is a lot more.
Too thin a cable means heat, and heat means failures and maybe fires.

I've built all sorts from simple circuits for a variety of uses, to interfaces to link radios to computers, and even a TV transitter.

The panel is a cheap and nasty that I don't expect to be up to spec, the charge controller is about the same, but I'm buying a nice inverter because that's the part I really need to last.

The price including a battery will be a nice little toy to play with, and it will set me up with the knowledge I need to build a better system with the confidence I'll need if I'm going to spend bigger money.
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Fred
#24
Your AC must be only .4 hp? It doesn't take much to cool one room, but there will be inverter losses.
- @pnwcyclist

I'm guessing around 10 to 20% inverter loss but that's unimportant for the test system as the items I intend to run are way too low powered to care.
I may buy a few 12v car fans so as not to waste power. I also have a couple of pretty amazing USB powered fans that punch well above their weight but use tiny amounts of power.

The two fridges run at around 120watts each at full pelt so they will hammer the battery if I hook them up. They will probably get left out this time. However, they could be run for a while in emergencies.
Inverter losses will matter if/when it comes to something that will run the A/C

Time for some maths
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coach53
#25
If realy want to do DIY , there are fragile solar cells to buy at Alibaba and mount together from around 200 USD plus transport and custom per 1 kW.  But need to build the cover and connect all.  If finding it ok to buy a minimi order. At a hasty look the smallest minimi order is cells to 8 kW.
- @coach53
Generally purchases from Alibaba is for resellers. . . . . .
- @Enzyte Bob
It seem you believe I didnt know that!!!   :)
Thats why minimi orders can be big there...

Btw Alibaba has a section for private buyers too, but I only check the business section.
danfinn
#26
@Fred Sorry but I said anthropogenic climate change BS. Climate is not a static phenomenon; it is cyclical. Political issues in Climate change are simple: The one way that marxists think they can kill capitalism is to destroy the energy sector in the USA. This is why the main "culprit" is generally the USA and nobody cares what CPC controlled China does (the second largest economy in the world or maybe even first by now). But sure, conspiracy theory right? I am open to explanations.
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Enzyte Bob
#27
If realy want to do DIY , there are fragile solar cells to buy at Alibaba and mount together from around 200 USD plus transport and custom per 1 kW.  But need to build the cover and connect all.  If finding it ok to buy a minimi order. At a hasty look the smallest minimi order is cells to 8 kW.
- @coach53
Generally purchases from Alibaba is for resellers. . . . . .
- @Enzyte Bob
It seem you believe I didnt know that!!!   smile.png
Thats why minimi orders can be big there...

Btw Alibaba has a section for private buyers too, but I only check the business section.
- @coach53

Alibaba is a B2B wholesellers platform. Viewing Alibaba I don't see a section for private buyers, maybe you can provide a link?
coach53
#28
Alibaba is a B2B wholesellers platform. Viewing Alibaba I don't see a section for private buyers, maybe you can provide a link?
- @Enzyte Bob
I had been in contact with Alibaba B2B. A while ago they did send me an email telling they had started a shop, so I suppouse there is one  :)
but I never bothered to check, because I look at the B2B section.
Fred
#29

Btw Alibaba has a section for private buyers too, but I only check the business section.
- @coach53

Alibaba is a B2B wholesellers platform. Viewing Alibaba I don't see a section for private buyers, maybe you can provide a link?
- @Enzyte Bob

Perhaps "Paid samples" might do the trick. I haven't done this on that site, but I've claimed to be an interested company for a lot of stuff I wanted for home use over the years.

Fred
#30
Yet another power cut - that's one every day this week.
The stuff gets ordered tomorrow
coach53
#31
I havent red it because I dont need it by I have company for buying,
but a bit down at this page, they talk about how to buy B2B WITHOUT business registration

Minimi order 200 USD for solar cells for 8 kW in the B2B isnt to much for private use neither. 

Mainly I have looked at machinery, but of the rather few other I have checked,  when its a bit more money, minimi orders are sometimes only one of things interesting for private use too.
(I dont know if there are problems though to get aproval in Phils for vehicles as e g electric 3-wheelers of type which arent approved allready.  Earlier slow electric vehicles didnt need neither registration nor drivers licence in Phils, but is it changed? I have a vague memory I did read such but perhaps it was just a suggestion. ((I stoped checking when I noticed cheap electric 2 and 3 wheelers dont suit for my needs by weak and to short reach for most rural use.  (Except one for internal transports at own land.))

LOCK UP!  Phils have extreemly high custom fees at SOME products as e g allready assembled vehicles, but NOT a whole one in parts, so it can be interesting to buy one not assembled.  I suppouse biger companies arent interested in making special for a single, while the smaller manufactorer the biger chance they agree.  Some manufactorers are huge but some are small in China too.  In general Chinese businesses are extreemly fast at answering, at their night time too when its biger companies, often within a few MINUTES!  1f44d.svg  Some even said  "Sorry for late answer" when they answered within 30 minutes :)
Enzyte Bob
#32
Yet another power cut - that's one every day this week.
The stuff gets ordered tomorrow
- @Fred
Some time ago when in Ace Hardware in the mall they had gasoline generators for a reasonable price. So your post motivated me to check out Shopee. A Honda,  name brand had a 2500 watt generator for P10,449 ($185.35)

I know your DIY Solar is in the Hobby stage now . . . .for myself or others in the Philippines that may have scheduled brown outs or Typhoon interruptions, $185 is a small price to pay for peace of mind.
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Fred
#33
I looked at gensets but I would have to buy one able to run the lot because the family won't have the first clue about watts watt (yes, I did :D) so they'll run the lot regardless.
That's puts the price outside what I want to pay.
The solar (Battery bought and rest on the way), will be wired into fans, night lights, chargers, and other small items only.
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Fred
#34
Some time ago when in Ace Hardware
- @Enzyte Bob


Ace here have inverter/chargers. You plug them in, add a battery, and you have an emergency supply with instant switchover  when the mains drops out. I lot like a massive UPS.
However, whilst I want emergency power, I also want to test a solar system with a view to running air con during the day so this fits the job.
2 members reacted to this post
Fred
#35
My basic solar kit turned up and I had a wonderful time testing it/playing with it.

I, after much prayer and a couple of bags of Frech fries, have decided to run the whole thing as a secondary 12 volt system that will allow me to run lights, small car style fans, and charge phones, but with a small inverter for charging computers and whatever.
3 members reacted to this post
R
#36

You can consider installing solar system i did tried the solar system in Antipolo (philippines) with 3300w package Star Voltage and it works like a charm. brown out no more.

bigpearl
#37

Welcome to the forum rjde, Can you tell us more about your solar system please.


Cheers, Steve.

1 member reacted to this post
M
#38

There's so many brownouts here in the Philippines its actually ridiculous that they do that. Some have lasted for a full 24 hours or more. Each year they seem to last anywhere from 4 hour to 8 hours I've been told. I've experienced brownouts around 6 times in the last year.

M
#39

             In Santa, Ilocos Sur, we have planned brown outs about once every six weeks.  They usually start around 9 AM and last until  5 PM.  We plan to go shopping in Vigan that day.

Lotus Eater
#40
There's so many brownouts here in the Philippines its actually ridiculous that they do that. Some have lasted for a full 24 hours or more. Each year they seem to last anywhere from 4 hour to 8 hours I've been told. I've experienced brownouts around 6 times in the last year.
-@ManilaExpat

Thank your lucky stars you don’t live in Dumaguete. There they get 6 in one week.

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