Alternative energy sources.

Appreciate what you are saying Fred and I can only speak for Philippine prices and comparisons, Indonesia I have no idea of your import duties and taxes, available vehicles so only relate to here.

Apples and oranges. I like a luxurious car (European top spec standards) and I worked very hard for 45 plus years to have what I/we desire and yes competitive pricing. We didn't rush out and buy something that looked nice, I have spent years studying the EV and solar industries and am not stupid when it comes to saving our pennies.

We have looked at equivalent ICE vehicles of the same size of our current  SUV and they are all plastic crap and generally the same price or more expensive, only a 3 year warrantee, higher servicing costs, rego, banned from the roads certain days and they pollute.

If you don't do many miles in your current car then keep it and get the remaining value out of it.

We all have choices, each to their own but I won't turn my back on alternative energy technology, no one should.

Cheers, Steve.

LOL Fred, it's too late to be threatening and slapping massive tariffs on not only China but all countries including the penguins. Simply look at all the countries searching for alternative trading partners now, China is there and a power to be reckoned with, by the way where did they learn capitalism?Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

The US will suffer because they are 20 years late for the party. They went for oil wars, but China went for building an export economy with belt and road to support it.

While the US was bombing,  they were building friendly trade partnerships.  When the US sanctioned a country,  they went in and worked with that nation in mutually beneficial business arrangements.

Indonesia is deeply partnered with China for trade, and it's working out great. The US has bombed us, but China built roads. The US tried to get their man in at the last election,  but China left us to our own choices.

We have cheap and efficient Chinese cars to US doesn't want us to have, and we have excellent Chinese solar power systems the US wants stopped.

I know which I prefer.

Yeah off topic again but how can one not respond to the cynical views on the world sitting under a certain cap. Your George Orwells dystopian 1984 novel was a great read and published 77 years ago, many things have come to pass but have paled into todays realities. I would think we all need to look in our own backyards first before hanging sh1t on other countries out of fear. That's what I read with many comments. Fear of change.

Homelessness, borderline poverty, education and health, commerce and industry, equatable trading and competitiveness the list goes on and relative to all countries. Think smarter.

Eat your heart out Lotus, the world has changed and moved on from old school thinking and you ain't gonna change it nor is an upcoming authoritarian leader and my slave labourer helps his family and banks money, banking money for savings is generally unheard of here and he has a great life and has made ours easier, isn't that what employees are paid for?

As for your last comment "at what cost"? Using power to change and try to dominate is the bottom of the rabbit burrow and definitely the wrong thinking. The world is global and requires assimilation from all nations, not dictators and a potential isolation driven country.

Our 2 Labradors care little for dystopian nor utopian ideologies as long as they are fed twice a day, have the freedom to do their thing around the property and know they are loved and cared for.

They don't mind going to the vet in an EV either.

Alternative renewable energy sources are the way forward and not the stupid mentality I see from some with regards to wind turbines and solar because they simply don't have the brains to see the inevitable.

I'll stick with my renewables for the planet and my grandkids and their children, the animals that also share our one and only world.

Drill baby drill would have to be the stupidest statement I've ever heard in my 66 years.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

Alternative renewable energy sources are the way forward and not the stupid mentality I see from some with regards to wind turbines and solar because they simply don't have the brains to see the inevitable.
Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

Drill, baby, drill is a short term profit plan from a very well bribed man.

Some countries,  including Australia,  are really going for renewable energy because they know it makes sense.  Others, the US and EU come to mind, are trying to stop it because most of the best is Chinese.

They make up pathetic excuses for morons to believe,  but it's simple down to western countries being crap at capitalism.

Old school thinking and negativity to new technologies won't stop their advancements. Stone tools started the thinking and then the wheel came along, locomotion, the internet, space travel, health developments and I'm sure all had their doom sayers but the reality is that the oil and coal tycoons will be forgotten and left crying for not taking the bull by the horns. The world will move forward and leave the nay sayers and greed behind.

Golly disbelievers simply look at what batteries, panels and inverters used to cost and where they are now, there was a young student in Oz studying at the university of New South Wales for his PHD (can't remember the field) but worked out that half the value in manufacturing a solar panel was the silver content required to make them and worked out it could be done with copper and more efficiently. Copper is 100 times cheaper and 1,000 times more abundant, put his PHD on hold, patented his discoveries and set up his own company manufacturing his panels, not sure where he is up to these days but his fore thought was to make alternatives cheaper for all to participate.

I mentioned this before that there is more sunlight hitting the earth every day than all the locked up hydrocarbons in reserve,,,,,,,, buried.

Wind turbines kill the birds? So do the glass skyscrapers, roaming cats and autos on the road.

Some countries are well there and on board while others as Fred mentioned are 20/30 years behind and missed the boat. Difficult to move forward for some because it's all about the almighty dollar and what they can get out of rash choices and denials of reality.

On topic as you can tell I'm all for alternatives and the dollars and environment that can be saved, not greasing palms or appeasing some fool that has a hold over you. Russia rings a bell and I'm sure the sordid details will eventually be revealed.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers, Steve.

Difficult to fix stupid and even harder to curb greed.

Cheers, Steve.

I've been looking at a few more lower end EV cars.

Except for the very lowest and oldest types, they all claim something short of 400 km on a charge, and all claim roughly the same charging times as the others I mentioned earlier.

I looks like that's the average, and it puts EVs into the 'useful' category.

I have mentioned in other threads that pure EVs will become useful and cost effective over time, and it looks like we are there.

That doesn't mean development will stop - far from it - but it does mean countries that are rejecting superior tech in favour of short term oil profits will regret it in an epic way.

I see a day in not too many years time when EVs are the norm and petrol is history. The same goes for power generation to charge EVs - all clean.

and quiet

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/hgG7LMLQ7To

While I have no idea the EV or PHEV costs where you live in I do know they are cost competitive in the Philippines. For us short runs, cold starts and quick dashes are a daily thing, If you as said don't do many miles look at the PHEV range of motors, ours has been up to 140 Klicks before ICE kicks in and when it's down that low will take 9 hours on slow charge, I generally plug it in at at 40/50%. and a 4/5 hour charge free from the sun.

As I mentioned Fred if you do limited miles then keep your old banger and save money. For me/us we turn wheels over every 5 to 6 years and the cost is given little thought. Our first EV or PHEV what I like is plugging it into the solar and not refuelling every 2 to 4 weeks. A reasonably powerful set of wheels at a competitive price that has luxury appointments and not a piece of plastic nor noisy etc. etc.

I'm not a car salesman but a retired old coot that has time for extensive research and evaluations no matter wheels, our home, health insurance, retirement funds and food choices.

Choices, the key word.

Cheers, Steve.

Exactly Fred, a quieter less polluted environment, healthier place to live.

For the non believers? Would you be happy with rubbing 2 sticks together for fire to cook and heat as was done for countless eons,,,,,, then the flint came along, then matchers and lighters, Progress and you won't stop it by clinging to old ways. Electricity both ac and dc came along and improved peoples lives hundreds if not thousands of years ago and brought along huge developments and where we live now. Simply look today, the mail that took months to come by ship and then a postal system has virtually disappeared because of advancements, a push of a button and your mail is delivered for 95% and the 5% like credit cards and drivers licences will eventually be totally digitised and you just carry your phone. I see on expat sites people wanting to bank cheques, I've not written a cheque in over 20 years as everything for me was digitised a very long time ago in Australia.

We used to heat our water with briquets or coal when I was a kid, some people wood and then electric water heaters came along as did oil fired heating for the home, natural gas as well.

All these things I grew up with were not only expensive but detrimental to the environment and our health.

For 30 years I have been a solar advocate, have watched the production costs drop incredibly to an affordable commodity for most punters. We invested and run our home off grid but can reconnect if required. Free energy from the sun through the day and the excess goes into batteries for use overnight, generally those batteries are fully charged by midday up to 2PM especially when recharging the car bring the 2 pm scenario. The rest is wasted. A typhoon brings cooler weather so less A/C and we can last a week or more on 60Kw batteries. The math shows we are saving an average of P400k per year.

No pollution nor noise and have at times thrown an extension lead over to the neighbour to power their refrigerator and some lighting with a major power interruption. They appreciate and from time to time reciprocate with their excess veggies.

None of us will change the future and should foster developments/advancements instead of hanging sh1t on those leading the way and allowing us all to take advantage.

I'm happy with the march forward and the free rays from the sun that keeps us all alive.

Cheers, Steve.

None of us will change the future and should foster developments/advancements instead of hanging sh1t on those leading the way and allowing us all to take advantage.
I'm happy with the march forward and the free rays from the sun that keeps us all alive.

Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

I remember the incandescent light bulb Brigade.

EXPAT.COM would like to thank Bigpearl & Fred, the official sponsors of electric Chinese vehicles on our Philippine Forum, for their valued input.

EXPAT.COM would like to thank Bigpearl & Fred, the official sponsors of electric Chinese vehicles on our Philippine Forum, for their valued input. - @Lotus Eater

Why sponsors?

The fact other countries are a bit rubbish isn't an endorsement  for China.

LOL Lotus and thanks for your support. Bias? Yes. Intelligent? No.

You dear sir fail to see that these opportunities were available to all countries and most dropped the ball and it seems the US, the supposed smartest country in the thinking world didn't even see the ball coming.

The old saying, "stupid is as stupid does"

Seems someone caught the ball one handed and ran with it, I see many aggrieved countries sprooking misconceptions and at times outright lies because they were bad players,,,,,,,, it could have been the US with the right thinkers and governments, still blindly travelling down the losers path having tantrums because they lost the game. You ain't going to stop future developments with a drill baby drill mentality and those that believe that will be sadly disappointed.

Innovation leads to change and prosperity and I simply see sad sacks whinging that they lost the game. Losing their position on the leader board.

Good on China for opening up affordable alternatives to hydrocarbons. Don't condemn their politics before cleaning up the tripe happening on a daily basis in your own country,,,,,, all countries.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

This forum subject has been a really interesting and enjoyable read, notwithstanding the cynicism of the seemingly appropriately handled "Lotus Eater" (that font is so big it could be CAPS!).

I have lived in the Philippines for over 20 Years, in an area where off grid solar installations are not much in evidence. I am constantly searching for alternatives to cover outages and the high cost of power.Gas and diesel generators are noisy and expensive to run. Reasonably priced solar generators do not appear to have the capacity. We spend an average of 10k a month on electricity albeit with one AC unit running 24/7. We have a a magnificent 7 KW oven which we do not use, it being cheaper to use a portable gas appliance.

I would like to ask Steve (Big Pearl) which, if any, off-grid installations he would recommend, and also if there are any non off-grid home EV charging systems he might be familiar with?

Cheers, Trevor.

I will pop in personal experience.

I have a Chinese made laptop that fits into my trousers pocket but retains full funcionality.

I use it with portable monitors that are slimmer than my Samsung phones. The same monitors, using a USB C connection, work with my phones and tablets.

The power the computer and monitors take is so small I can run them on a rechargable power bank if I wish.

I use home wIfI from a Chinese router, and I have a portable WiFi that runs from my phone or any other USB plug - That was also made in China.

The whole lot would run and/or charge on a single, very cheap, Chinese made solar panel I could install with ease myself.

Countries that ban or kill Chinese products by tax leave their citizens with no serious choice that to but their home build products that are usually more expensive and commonly not as good.

Yeah Trevor different stokes for different folks and a belated welcome to the forum. Many old school thinkers sit under a certain hat and deny reality. Politics aside My topic is about alternative energy sources.

Many questions Trevor and where to start? I suppose firstly you will need bucks to invest and your return on investment could be 5 to 10 years depending on the design, on or off grid etc.

Remember simply that the sun shines every day especially here and most waste the energy.

For your needs having a 7 kw cooker is a dream and requires a heck of a lot of power to operate either grid or stand alone. We have a very large oven and 5 burner cooktop and went gas as it's far cheaper to use, 1 bottle every 3 months.

Being a solar nut for 30 years I love it but living here rejected the costs until a few years ago with competition driving the prices down, (China) eventually bit the bullet and went off grid but still connected to the almighty if we need to. Our power bills were P 10 to 12K per month and like you 1 to 2 A/C units running.

OMO but given your power consumption especially if you have no plans to increase usage/demand you will get away with a P 500 to 800K investment that won't let you run a 7K oven/cooker but most other things, that type/cost system will be limited to a 5 Kw inverter, also depends on your choice of grid tied or stand alone, grid tied means you can sell your excess power back to the grid and get a third to a quarter of the price and when the power goes out? So do you. Stand alone means no outages and you are in control of power and its management. Our scape goat is the ability to throw a few breakers and reconnect to the all mighty and in the interim costs 5.6 pesos a month for the meter.

Stand alone means batteries and the most expensive component with this type of investment.

The solar company we went with initially quoted us on a system to suit our consumption/needs and dealing with the owner, an Englishman was and has always been a pleasure to do business with and I told him to double the size as we wanted to run more A/C . Quote for 11 odd Kw of panels, 40 Kw of batteries  and 2 x 5 Kw inverters linked was around P 1.4M great system but me being a pig with power and wanting the whole home with A/C a year later upped the solar to 16Kw and an extra 20 Kw of batteries, another P500K.

Now with an EV will be a 5 year ROI.

Trevor I got sick of paying the conglomerates for our comfort.

Any questions please ask away.

As said choices.

Cheers, Steve.

BTW Trevor, no power outages, spikes nor surges. No generators/noise or worries about the food in the refrigerator or freezer, the electric gates or roller doors on the garage operating, the water pump from the well, the internet nor A/C etc.

Stand alone is the winner if one can afford it but recouped in the end.

Cheers, Steve.

Fred sitting under a particular hat is losing favour, it's not only China that is hit with non thinking tariffs but many countries and while trade sanctions/tariffs might work for negotiations and an ego pleaser the end result costs the consumer and loses trading partners. The example was the Chinese tariffs on many Australian products as a retaliatory act against the Aussies voicing an opinion on Covid and questioning. Seems to have backfired as us lowly Aussie battlers found new markets and now the perpetrators can't buy what they had. A knee jerk reaction from China instead of being transparent ,,,,,, the old film "the mouse that roared"

I'm with you Fred on the advancements many countries have led with while others cry wolf.

Cheers, Steve.

@bigpearl

You dear sir fail to see that these opportunities were available to all countries and most dropped the ball and it seems the US, the supposed smartest country in the thinking world didn't even see the ball coming.

The old saying, "stupid is as stupid does"

What the heck are you talking about? The USA led the electric car transition with Tesla and other YS manufacturers and even today BYD does not have AI self-drive that might possibly make an EV worth owning. The Americans led the change and you say we didn't see the ball coming? America has a suitable infrastructure with charging stations that allow an EV to travel from coast to coast but we didn't see the ball coming, Personally I wouldn't buy an EV although my son has 2 Teslas with self drive that he rents out on Turo. But your lack of awareness of the American roots to this industry is unbelievable.

So what happened Dan? Competition.

Cheers, Steve.

The USA led the electric car transition - @danfinn

"Led" is past, but leading is China.

However, I understand the blue states do quite well with EVs.

Fred I suppose it's little different to rare earths mineral production, the US led the way, now? China has a near monopoly at 90%.

And Dan simply look at EV sales world wide, as for owning a self drive set of wheels that do, like people tend to have accidents,,,,,, I have little trust in AI and the better half won't even touch cruise control, never has and for me the novelty wore off 30 years ago.

Maybe BYD are smart not throwing extra tech into their wheels that most people don't want as well as the cost factor, if they do? Go buy a Tesla. Trouble is it seems the only service centre for Tesla in the Philippines is in BGC Manila and a 6 plus hour drive from here, whereas BYD has service centres all over the country and our closest is half an hour away.

Remember we live in the Philippines and not the US.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

Remember we live in the Philippines and not the US.OMO.Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

That's handy. I gather something like 70% read at pre-school level or worse - 40% being illiterate

Innovation is not on the cards. As for AI, driving or otherwise,  it has its place, but not anywhere that thinking is required.  It's fine for shifting pallets in a factory, but bloody silly on a public road.

It will get better eventually.

It is handy Fred and our bit of nirvana. Your observations of Filipino literacy is inaccurate and I will add from a dude that has never lived here let alone visited, it actually has me beat why you waste your typing skills and obvious lack of knowledge on a Filipino expat website,,,,,, maybe little happens in Indonesia?

I have been coming here for over 15 years for work and finally living here for 7 years now and have never had a problem with verbal nor written abilities from most,,,,, there can be problems with many over 60 Y/O with English but most of them are retired and there are plenty around to help translate.

Most people here pride themselves on their English prowess. My better half is fluent in English, Spanish as well as half a dozen local dialects. Not me because I'm lazy.

AI might seem good to some as its algorithms look like they are just telling people what they want to hear and is easily pulled apart with the tiniest amount of research to get the truth, only my observations.

On topic, yet another perfect day and plenty of free sunshine.

Cheers, Steve.

So what happened Dan? Competition.
Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

What are you talking about. EVs are everywhere in the US, supported by a national grid of charging stations. I was there recently and saw it myself. Competition? What are you talking about?

Dan they are all over the world and have been for a very long time, it's not just about the US.

While some clutch at straws others move forward. China has done that very well at all levels and sorry to say won't stop.

Alternatives are a choice whether a solar system, an EV or hybrid, an efficient A/C or refrigerator, the way you heat the water.

I'm not going to get into an argument over alternatives nor efficiencies, bottom line is the hip pocket and the savings that are offered and a potentially better world.

I remember driving out to 29 Palms, Yucca valley etc. from L.A. 20 years ago and was mesmerised by the wind farms, seemed like thousands in the middle of the desert supplying power to the people at an efficient cost,,,,,,, now you have a fool saying they kill the birds and whales and no more, drill baby drill, let's kill them with pollution.

Cheers, Steve.

I have little trust in AI and the better half won't even touch cruise control, never has and for me the novelty wore off 30 years ago.

As for AI, driving or otherwise,  it has its place, but not anywhere that thinking is required.  It's fine for shifting pallets in a factory, but bloody silly on a public road.

It seems our Chinese sponsors on this site have not been doing their homework on AV's as they have on EV's & Solar.

Waymo (driverless taxis) are well established in San Francisco. Waymo figures which have been peer reviewed show an 80% improvement in serious accidents compared to humanoid drivers. This is a city of steep inclines unlike for example Phoenix in Arizona which is as flat as a pancake.

Waymo use superior Jaguar Pace vehicles which are more comfortable than the conventional competition albeit on average a pricier ride. About 30% on average. Research shows that once people have tried an AV they stick with it. Interestingly the size of the market in Frisco (sorry San Francisco) has increased. More people are substituting their own cars for AV's. Single females coming home late at night love them for obvious reasons.

The number of taxi drivers hitherto has not changed that much because of price differentials and a larger market but this will change over time. Wages go up vehicle technology becomes cheaper.

London is rolling out AV's this year. Like your solar Steve it will be transformative. More efficient use of the road space and a reduction of bunching up on highways leading to delays. Increased  productivity as people 'driving' to work can open up their laptops.

Back home in Manila it will admittedly take many years until adopted. When it is, gone are the days when you have to suffer the appalling line hogging weaving tail gating  idiocy of most Filipino taxi drivers with the sound of Win FM 91.5 blaring out the latest game fad.

It seems our Chinese sponsors on this site have not been doing their homework on AV's as they have on EV's & Solar.
Waymo (driverless taxis) are well established in San Francisco. Waymo figures which have been peer reviewed show an 80% improvement in serious accidents compared to humanoid drivers. This is a city of steep inclines unlike for example Phoenix in Arizona which is as flat as a pancake.. - @Lotus Eater

But your exampple of US superiority is an Austrian manufacted car. Perhaps you could explain how being forced to import cars because your home industry can't build anything as good is in any way a win for the States.

I'm really loving these debates. I've only ever had one question about self driving road vehicles - Why? To further increase unemployment or to take from me another of my occasional pleasures? Driving can often be frustrating and time consuming but for the most part a thrilling and enjoyable experience. Not for the speed but for the freedom. I have spent many vacations driving in Europe, Australia, Canada and the United States, taking in the vineyards of France, the Australian outback and the multiple breathtaking vistas of North America.

When the US pioneered motoring for the great unwashed it reinvented personal freedom. Read Bill Bryson to fully understand the scale of it's achievements.

Unfortunately, greed for the almighty dollar milked the cash cow, and as complacency set in, US technology and design were rapidly overtaken by the Japanese and the Europeans and now, like it or not, the Chinese.

Americans are not playing catch-up through innovation. Nor are they reopening car plants contrary to the claims of the moron in the White House. All he has to offer are tariffs, seemingly oblivious to the fact that there are now more than 8 billion souls who don't live in the US.

The USA led the electric car transition - @danfinn
"Led" is past, but leading is China.
However, I understand the blue states do quite well with EVs.
- @Fred

Well I will not argue the point because I do not particularly believe EV leadership is something to be that proud of. However, virtually all US manufacturers make them and charging stations are everywhere and not just in blue states. Finally my taxes have stopped supporting this nonsense and the true cost of these cars has begun to slow previously government subsidized sales considerably. The rich liberal elites like bill gates have stopped pushing solar and wind because those sources are much too weak to supply the AI data centers. Bill Gates no longer says climate change is a critical problem and he is also a big investor in OpenAI. The last WEF in Davos did not mention climate change much. Expecting solar and wind to power these vehicles will only occur on a niche basis because fossil and nuclear fuel are again the power sources of the future. Too bad for Steve. Time to read up.

Yeah the debacles Trevor and as an open forum there are many views, left, right and those sitting on the fence and all thoughts should be welcomed and at times deliberated earnestly.

Lotus, how's your AV going to go out of a city? The middle of a desert? I well remember punching in an address on google maps and through the trip was told to turn left off a bridge through a concrete barrier into the harbour 100 metres below 5 or 10 klicks from my destination, taking me to the wrong suburb/street or running me around in loops because it couldn't differentiate between upper and lower overpasses, still happens today even in Manila.

I don't live in Frisco or London and so far we don't have AV's here and where we live I will be long dead before that tech makes its way here.

As for "Chinese sponsors?" What a load of crap, look around and I bet you own Chinese products and components, why because these days they are good and cost comparable or better than other countries can supply. They offer cost competitive alternatives in most fields of commerce. Reject as much as you like that's a choice.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

Sorry Dan but dinosaurs died out long ago. Why so many charging stations if you see no future for the EV industry? No future in solar and wind?

For over 2 years now we have been running 5 to 7 A/C units and everything in the home as well as now charging the car and no power bills, free from the sun, no frigging blackouts. Australia we put solar on the roof, grid tied but dropped the power bills by 70% or around AU 2K a year and recouped that investment in a little over 2 years. As said "stupid is as stupid does".

Cheers, Steve.

@bigpearl

I have little trust in AI and the better half won't even touch cruise control, never has and for me the novelty wore off 30 years ago.

Solar technology is nothing new Steve. The UK had door to door salesman flogging solar panels in the 80’s. The payback could not be justified but the academic fraternity loved it because it was a dinner party talking point. “Oh we’ve got Solar blah blah blah.” Panels have to be changed every few years  and AV’s don’t punch a hole through the roof resulting in lead flashing leaks in years to come.

As you know it’s taken a long time for today’s solar technology to come to fruition. Even with government grants in the UK the figures still don’t add up. Many people all over the world (particularly stateside) move house on average

every 7 years and will never get the payback.

Your condemnation of AV’s is is where your Solar kick was 40 years ago.

AV’s do not rely on intermittent solar. Battery technology is improving all the time and with Space X satellite technology will be ubiquitous in rural as well as urban areas.

@danfinn

I expect soon Pearl will get ahead of the curve and put solar panels on his EV or even possibly a windmill.

@TrevorH

I have spent many vacations driving in Europe, Australia, Canada and the United States, taking in the vineyards of France, the Australian outback and the multiple breathtaking vistas of North America.

Presumably you got the Mrs to do the driving so you could enjoy the views?

Sorry Dan but dinosaurs died out long ago. Why so many charging stations if you see no future for the EV industry? No future in solar and wind? - @bigpearl

In the desert on low charge?

No problem - It's easy enough to plonk in a charger fed by solar. No delivery trucks, and nothing else required.

@bigpearl

I bet you own Chinese products and components, why because these days they are good and cost comparable or better than other countries can supply. They offer cost competitive alternatives in most fields of commerce. Reject as much as you like that's a choice.

I would not have a Chinese product given to me. Poor quality. Gimmick designs & features . Unreliable products. At least to date.

Wherever I can I buy premium products that have a proven heritage. German durable goods

British Hi-Fi . Italian & British apparel , American IT. ( made by Foxconn in China but under strict quality control conditions. )

Admiittedly some components in western products will be from China.

The new Chinese EV’s look impressive but I’m happy to wait for the new Mercedes models that  will come to market in due course. Often Steve the tortoise beats the hare..

@bigpearl

Steve, I think you severely underestimate self-drive firmware. You think Google maps would take you to the wrong place? My son did self-drive from NC to NYC. The firmware not only uses real time data generated by other drivers but they communicate with other self drive vehicles. When he was in Manhattan there were several other self drives and they communicate with each other to for most favorable traffic. He showed me a video from the dash cam where he was driving on a country road and a deer jumped  out in front of the car. The car slowed and avoided the collision and he did even see it. Self drive is actually much safer according to recent studies. As for Chinese EVs, the US prohibits BYD as being rolling spy machines. I am no expert on that but I do know the Chinese would love to have that Tesla self-drive firmware. Many people in the US believe self-drive is great for older drivers whose reactions are slower.

@Lotus Eater

No, she has never driven anything more challenging than a pushbike. Views motor vehicles as lethal weapons! Takes guts to ride a pushbike on English city roads. She's braver than me.