Alternative energy sources.

bigpearl said . . . Bob your figures are wrong yet again. I asked AI how much to replace the 18.4Kw batteries in our BYD 6 and your go to told me US 1K not the figures you sprout.

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Nowhere did I quote battery replacement on your BYD Chariot. I received my information from Bard also AI. The figures I quoted were USA prices in USD.

Now for Philippine Prices:

According to Bard replacing BYD Shark 6 or Sealion (18.4 kw)

Battery: P230,000-P315,000

Labor & Installation: P30,000- P60,000

Total: P260,000-P375,000

There is a huge discrepancy with your AI and what I searched but like always you have to be right. I am right to question AI and the many false narratives offered up.

Even your given figures are a far cry from the crap you posted on yet another railroaded thread.

The big points here I have pointed out.

An 8 year warrantee on the batteries and while I can't confirm believe has been extended to 10 years.

We buy a new set of wheels every 5 to 6 years.

35 US bucks in fuel in 8 months and the rest from the sun.

As Dan pointed out, it's PHEV and if the batteries sh1t themselves we can still drive it around.

Limited C02 emissions or none.

A luxury SUV with high tech, A/C seats etc. half the price of Bens 508 Peugeot wagon, 1/5th of the price of my SL 350 Mercedes and has more bells and whistles. I could go on but see I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

Owning an EV or PHEV in our case saves us some P 70 to 80K a year in fuel costs and simply plug it into the sun. Even if you rely on the grid for charging at home it's still half the cost of drill baby drill.

We invested some P 1.9M in a stand alone solar system so we could run an A/C house and not get a power bill, that investment saves us some P350K per year or a tad over a 5 year ROI or a non taxable 20% return, no frigging blackouts or power spikes, a far better investment than the taxable 5% return from the bank.

EV cars or solar systems make far more sense than burning hydrocarbons.

Research and don't rely on AI. Hands on is the best way to gain credible knowledge.

Cheers, Steve.

No-one actually wants an internal combustion engine, the boom boom chugga chugga with their explosions, belching fumes, whirring parts, squirting lubricants etc. I can imagine the museum where the kids of the future will be staring at a Land Cruiser the way we as kids stared at the Penny Farthing, not with awe at the amazingness of the invention but rather wondering who on earth thought of that ridiculous thing! Yes electric vehicles have their problems but they're all solvable. The problems of Internal combustion engines are a feature of their existence

I don't know Brogesov, hard to beat a well tuned big block owning a lumpy camshaft. My V8 and V6 days are gone and the silence of an EV for an old fart like me has won the day. playing with the tech is just as much fun and EV's can be more powerful than an ICE set of wheels.

No pollution and free to run from the sun though some can't see the trees for the forest.

Cheers, Steve.

@bigpearl . . . So where did you research?  Where do the discrepancies come from?

(1) When I give my source as "Bard"

(2) "Bard' is "Gemini"

(3) "Gemini is "Google"

When you sprout "ROI" which maybe several years down the road for you, savings has not yet started for you until the

'ROI" is fulfilled.

In the Philippines less than 1% of households have the system you have, so the hydrocarbons you save for the Planet, Philippines & Environment is a spit in the ocean.

To improve the air quality you may need 1,000 EV's to replace just one Jeepney in the Philippines. Considering there are 200,000 Jeepneys, you would 200 million EV's to replace all the Jeepneys to improve the air quality.

Go back to bed Bob.

Cheers, Steve.

Nothing to do with China or the Philippines, relative to all countries.

Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

It should be common sense, but most of the pro and anti arguments about EVs (and renewable energy in general) are down to geopolitics.

The loudest voices against the pair are all from oil producers - Make of that what you will, but I believe it's profits over common sense.

Let's look at a remote village in the middle of nowhere. They have no lights, no way to charge a phone, and no power to get internet from anywhere.

1. If they have a river, even a small one, they can generate power from a micro-hydroplant.
2. If they are coastal, it's small wind turbines.
3. If they get a lot od sunlight, it's solar panels

All renewable, all pollution free (or very close), and all require almost no maintaining worth talking about. Perfect, except most of the gear is made in China so it's evil, will spy on you, and the evil Chinese can cut it off in a jiffy.

Perhaps petrol generators are better. They need looking after, are common noisy,  and pollute, but the oil companies profit, so the rest means nothing.

I mentioned my bike. It looks like a motorbike (scooter type), but has gel batteries that last me between a week and a month (I only use it for short trips).  It takes up no space when parked, makes almost no noise, and causes not a jot of local pollution.

Yes, the power station pollutes, but my bike uses tiny amounts of leccy and I'm seriously looking at a micro solar system to charge it and provide emergency power for the house. The total cost will be well less than 200 USD, and it will last for years.

It's all Chinese made so it will probably turn me into a communist - if you believe propaganda.

EV cars or solar systems make far more sense than burning hydrocarbons.

Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

Not always.

My car gets a fill up about once a month, often longer. I do a matter of 3km per day, maybe a little more on the weekends.

Whilst I agree that EV make a lot of sense for many people, they do not for me. I could replace my 11 year old car, but I can't think of a reason to do so. It's a bit knocked about on the outside, but it's mechanically sound.

The cheapest EV I could buy is about a third more than the cheapest ICE, but the EV has a lot more limitations. Add that to recover the savings in running costs against the extra initial cost would take longer than the life of the car, and an EV is absolutely off the menu for me.

However, that's me, not other people.

(1) When I give my source as "Bard"

- @Enzyte Bob

I very strongly recommend avoiding AI as it makes far too errors to trust its 'facts'.

You are far better going to a manufacturer's own site and posting what they say. However, you also need to look at other factors including expected battery life, and any guarantees offered on the battery.

You might also like to consider the possible resale value of a car's battery pack. It might be far too limited to run a car, but that doesn't mean it can't have a second life as part of a renewable energy power plant.

It might also be noted that Lithium (and other parts of a battery) can be seen as strategic materials. That makes their scrap value worth a look.

@Brojeslov

No-one actually wants an internal combustion engine, the boom boom chugga chugga with their explosions, belching fumes, whirring parts, squirting lubricants etc.

Oh yes they do want an internal combustion engine!

Many people have range anxiety as I would in the Philippines. And do does Steve, thus his decision to purchase a BYD hybrid this declaration of independence from ICE is laughable.

Furthermore, battery replacement is expensive no matter what you say. And when your hybrid car's batteries wear out, the only way to continue using it is to pay big money for new batteries on a 10 year old car or simply switch 100% to ICE. For trade in, I imagine you can bargain for the lowest price possible to have the dealer pay to scrap it.

Oh yes they do want an internal combustion engine! - @danfinn

I would tend to look at it another way. I believe, except for a very few, nobody wants an ICE vehicle.

They might very well need such an engine's capabilities, but they don't actually care how they get it.

Oh yes they do want an internal combustion engine! - @danfinn
I would tend to look at it another way. I believe, except for a very few, nobody wants an ICE vehicle.
They might very well need such an engine's capabilities, but they don't actually care how they get it. - @Fred

I would think a good compromise for ICE haters might be, rather than blindly  jump full bore into the EV paradise that Steve advocates, without taking into account the disadvantages of range loss, battery degradation and range loss, and cratered resale values, (that 1st time buyers usually don't know about), to lease the EV for 3 years so it is out of your life after 3 years. Then you just lease another one, year after year, always having sonething that works and never having an ICE to deal with.. That is the only way I would do it. My son does it that way and rents 2 different leased self-drive models on Turo (a car "airbnb"). They are popular, not for being EV but for the awesome self-drive firmware. He has a Tesla model Y and the Tesla Cybertruck available  (and a lot more money thsn me lol). It is a profitable business. But I think he also enjoys his ICE stick shift (some sports car) as well

There's no reason to hate ICE vehicles,  but lots of reasons to want to get rid of them.

Sadly, EVs are not good enough at this point in time, but that's likely to change.

Charging times are getting shorter and range is getting longer, but initial cost is a big barrier to mass adoption,  especially for low mileage users.

The ultimate goals of silent roads and minimal city pollution are lovely,  but we aren't there yet.

My contribution,  along with countless other people,  is my little EV scooter. These are everything most people need for short range personal transport, and that's making them very popular.

They are cheap, can be charged at home for very little money, and require no servicing. 

Almost zero noise and no pollution aren't seen as advantages, and that's where the environmental lobby are messing up. For most, a vehicle purchase is about suitability against price, and EV cars come second.

Choices gentlemen, we won't stop progress but we can take advantage of it. Thank the powers that be  the wheel was invented.

Yes Dan, a lot of research and why we went for PHEV instead of a restrictive EV as well as the pricing and warrantees, I will add that recharging stations are popping up all over Luzon these days but if you charge that way it's more expensive than buying fuel.

Our local Robinsons has 2 free charging stations, 3 hour limit and close to the entry, no fighting for parking, and a security guard hanging around.

Bob. Return on investment is a prerequisite in any venture.

Look at it this way, the money we invested in solar and batteries will have an ROI of a little over 5 years and I will add not taxable, after those 5 years we are earning/saving P 350K per year, doh silly me, add in the savings of P70/80K owning a PHEV. Yet another bonus so less than 5 years

If we left that money in the bank it was earning 5% and taxable, (now it's down to 4.5%) so over 20 years ROI.

In the interim we are not creating massive C02 emissions by using diesel or coal fired power stations nor contributing to to conglomerates bottom lines. I am but one person but I'm trying to make the world a better place for my kids and grandkids and saving money at the same time.

My long departed dad taught us when we were kids "If you look after the pennies the dollars will look after themselves" and it has served me well.

As said research and choices. We are doing it and not procrastinating with hypotheticals.

Cheers, Steve.

Here's another point. would you if you could instal an incandescent light bulb in your home? No if you have any brains. In Australia legislation was passed in 2007 to phase out old school lighting and move to halogen and LED lighting that were far more energy efficient and reduced C02 emissions, go try and buy an incandescent bulb in Australia now, not going to happen.

Would you buy an old school window rattler A/C unit or an inverter type? An old school refrigerator or an inverter type? An old school ICE set of wheels or an EV or hybrid?

The wheels won't stop turning.

Cheers, Steve.

I remember the first energy saving bulbs in the UK. A lot wouldn't use them because they flashed.

Now LEDs are a thing, you get better light for far less money.

However, that doesn't apply to cars yet, but it very probably will a few years down the line.

I remember the first energy saving bulbs in the UK. A lot wouldn't use them because they flashed.
Now LEDs are a thing, you get better light for far less money.
However, that doesn't apply to cars yet, but it very probably will a few years down the line. - @Fred

Yes an apt analogy Fred although purchasing a $4 LED bulb in the early days did not break the bank if you were not happy with the brightness or flicker. Would not catch fire either and if it did it would not burn down the house. There have been many instances in the UK where cheap Chinese electric bike batteries have exploded either in the garage or worse still in the house itself as the owner was worried about the  goddamned thing being nicked. I have also seen burnt out Tesla's on motorways (highways to our American friends)

As stated in another post its 'the battery technology stupid'. If battery development had progressed as fast as most technologies in today's world we would not be having this debate now.

Personally I think it's going to be a long haul transition but echo many of the positives on EV's that Steve has alluded to.

I think back in the 80's and 90's the energy saving light bulbs were probably fluro crammed into a recognisable shape and weren't very successful until the advent of light emitting diodes. Batteries and electric motors like DC compressors and AI have come a long way especially in the last 5/10 years.

Lotus we are not EV but PHEV meaning an ICE backup. Great for local stuff with 120 to 140 klicks on the batteries and then ICE kicks in, some will disagree but I'm still not an EV head, range anxiety etc.

As for battery tech? Research and stop doubting. Look around and learn how many companies are sticking BYD blade batteries in their EV's.

BYD is a company that started out in the battery industry and developed world changing tech, branched into car manufacturing but the fundamental business is batteries. We ain't going stop advancements in any and all fields. Glad I don't have a stable for horses and only cars and bikes with no need to feed.

Cheers, Steve.