Hmm .. is this different from Russian missles on Cuba?

Dan, I mostly agree with you, and what we need is China to agree

And all agree that all countries progress their fair wants and needs.

Hence at heart, to progress, what does China fairly want and need?

Right, however nobody, even China expects the Philippine strategic deployment to be for a first nuclear strike. Many missile systems can be fitted with nuclear warheads but most people agree that was not the purpose of thd basically defensive Philippines Biden admin deployment. Personally, I am opposed to the US spending so much taxpayer money to defend the South China Sea shipping lanes - @danfinn

Perhaps they don't expect it, but the US has a nasty habit of starting wars. The fact an extremely aggressive country puts first strike weapons in place is very bad news.

As for the shipping, most of it is Chinese, thus the US is claiming to defend shipping lanes against their biggest user in the SOUTH CHINA SEA, which isn't just off New York Harbour.

You must admit Dan that we do live in a rather sad world these days and who is to say yea or nay that there are no nuclear emplacements in the Philippines? As for the Phills protecting themselves from an invasion? Can't even get their rights in the South China Sea nor give the average worker decent wages and conditions,,,,, Most of us know why,,,,, control.

While I love living in the Philippines I can't get over the apathy generated here by the constituents even after the Marcos ousting and the people wanting better that never comes. They keep putting the same fools back in power,,,,, golly hope I don't get deported for that statement.

Thing is from an old farts perspective is the world as we knew and grew up with has gone and now?

Cheers, Steve.

Bob, it's simple.https://www.google.com/search?client=sa … p;oe=UTF-8BYD sold 4.29M vehicles worldwide compared to Tesla of 1.79M in 2024, while both respectable figures one would ask who is buying a Tesla vehicles these days given the hate portrayed towards the founder/brand, graffiti, burning cars,,,,, Seems the US are not happy campers these days and share prices are reflecting the sentiments. Bit like the US economy?Time will tell.Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl
*********************************
Again we are talking models of TOTALLY ELECTRIC CARS, purchased in China only. - @Enzyte Bob

Bob learn to read,,,,,,, world wide sales.

Cheers, Steve.

@danfinn

These missile systems are easily reconfigured from conventional to nuclear warheads. They're a wolf in sheep's clothing, hence the freak out factor.

@danfinn
These missile systems are easily reconfigured from conventional to nuclear warheads. They're a wolf in sheep's clothing, hence the freak out factor. - @Brojeslov

More so when you factor in how many countries the US has attacked since 1947.

They have started more wars than every other country put together.

However, there is a bright side, the US has never attacked a county with any serious ability to defend itself, or had any ability to attack the US.

China can do both, so it's unlikely the US will actually start a war.

Cowards never hit people who can hit back.

LOL. Fred simply look at the wars the US started,,,,,, did they win any? The lost lives on both sides for an ego procession,,,,, I think the US has learnt many lessons but still bombastic towards those the hierarchy thinks less of, simply look at the crap happening in Ukraine, I wonder where the US would end up in all the current turmoil happening worldwide turns around and bites them from many angles.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

LOL. Fred simply look at the wars the US started,,,,,, did they win any? The lost lives on both sides for an ego procession,,,,, I think the US has learnt many lessons but still bombastic towards those the hierarchy thinks less of, simply look at the crap happening in Ukraine, I wonder where the US would end up in all the current turmoil happening worldwide turns around and bites them from many angles.
OMO.

Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

The US got its arse kicked in Vietnam and Afghanistan, but their armaments industries profited on both.

I suppose you have to define 'win'

Bob, it's simple.https://www.google.com/search?client=sa … p;oe=UTF-8BYD sold 4.29M vehicles worldwide compared to Tesla of 1.79M in 2024, while both respectable figures one would ask who is buying a Tesla vehicles these days given the hate portrayed towards the founder/brand, graffiti, burning cars,,,,, Seems the US are not happy campers these days and share prices are reflecting the sentiments. Bit like the US economy?Time will tell.Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl
*********************************
Again we are talking models of TOTALLY ELECTRIC CARS, purchased in China only. - @Enzyte Bob

Bob learn to read,,,,,,, world wide sales.

*****************************

I would same for you, please read my post #36

All Electric cars . . . . meaning purchase in China.

Bob, it's simple.
https://www.google.com/search?client=sa … p;oe=UTF-8

BYD sold 4.29M vehicles worldwide compared to Tesla of 1.79M in 2024, while both respectable figures one would ask who is buying a Tesla vehicles these days given the hate portrayed towards the founder/brand, graffiti, burning cars,,,,, Seems the US are not happy campers these days and share prices are reflecting the sentiments. Bit like the US economy?

Time will tell.

Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

The first time I saw a video of one of those SpaceX launches where the booster detached, directed itself back to Earth and landed on the same launchpad it launched from, I was amazed. That was science fiction stuff that NASA, China and Russia...sovereign countries... couldn't even do. They still can't. China is trying but they will get it after they steal the IP.

But I suppose most of the population is non-technical and could never appreciate that great accomplishment.

Then, even here in the Philippines we can access Starlink, the product of a visionary's idea to fill the sky with low earth orbiting internet servers to link the world with IP addresses in places where before it was not possible such as Ukraine or Western North Carolina after a devastating hurricane.

But I suppose most of the population is non-technical and could never appreciate that great accomplishment.

Then the global community of environmentalist liberals warned the world about climate change. "Go electric" they said, about automobile transportation. So then the visionary meets the challenge and mass produces a new technology of lithium battery powered electric cars that became...get this...self driving.

But I suppose most of the population is non-technical and could never appreciate that great accomplishment.

Then he becomes Trump's friend and supporters, an absolutely unforgivable sin! He tried to save excesses of fraud and abuse in government spending but alas! He was in the crosshairs of the liberal mass media target, 2nd only to the great Satan himself, Donald Trump. Now the mass media...and others..heap praises on China's latest whizbang  invention, a copy (so good at copying, eh?) of the Tesla, selling for cheap Chinese prices. BYD might even become self driving after China steals the firmware IP.

But I suppose most of the population is non-technical and has been brainwashed by mass media and couldn't care less about the awesome accomplishments of a friend and supporter of Satan himself.

Again we are talking models of TOTALLY ELECTRIC CARS, purchased in China only. - @Enzyte Bob

It hardly matters.

China's EV are higher quality and cheaper than US versions, and the best the US can manage is made in China, as is your iphone.

China's high speed rail runs at 300kph max, and covers so much of the country that short to medium haul air routes are no longer required.

The US version maxes out at 160 kph and consists of a few short lines.

When it comes to electronics, pretty much everything is made in China.

Their portable monitors are far better quality than the likes of Samsung's desk monitors, but they are only a few millimeters thick so slip in your computer bag. My 3 screen system cost almost nothing, but I get amazing productivity that I can carry around with ease.

I can even carry it on Indonesia's Chinese funded high speed rail that travels at twice the speed of US high speed rail, and will have double the milage of the US system in a few more years.

There are no US products that are anywhere near Chinese stuff.

No matter how you measure, China's system is far ahead of anything the US has, save one thing. China's military has little power projection in the form of offensive weapons. They have a large military, but it's based around defence, not offense as the US military is.

The US is a million miles behind China, so you threaten it with your military.

Surely it would be better to try to match their highly successful capitalist model.

I forgot shipbuilding.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/countr … pbuilding/

The best in the world is China with 51% of the world's total.

The US manages 0.1%. That's just above Iran, but below Indonesia.

Trump tariffs and threatens, but China, the best capitalist country ever, builds.

The above posts show why the US is building up attack forces around China. They aren't defend anything, but they are there to intimidate.

The missiles, and everything else the US is aiming at China is just a drowning cou try clutching at straws before slipping under the water and disappearing into the history books.

The US is like an alcoholic sitting in a doorway saying he can stop drinking any time he likes.

He never will because he refuses to admit he has a problem.

It was the divorce, the family screwed him, the kids won't talk to him - anything but accept the only common factor his him.

The US has an additional problem. They have threatened and attacked so many countries, nobody will help them get better.

China has helped almost everyone it meets. They have stored up a lot of goodwill. It's so much better than the hate the US generates.

Fred, it's not just the US. Most western countries are in the same situation and in reality has been self imposed/inflicted, high wages, high expectations riding boom times of the 50's through to the 90's and shot ourselves in the foot. The only thing I can see keeping Australia's head above water are the resources in the ground or else we would be a 2nd world country. Australia lost most of its large industry because we couldn't compete in the end. Greed caused this and little more.

Interesting thing is most of the countries can't see trees for the forest, eyes open and wake up.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

Approximately 14 Chinese car companies went out of business leaving BYD at the top remaining companies along with Tesla.

Who is BYD:

*BlackRock 94,000,000 shares

*Berkshire -Hathaway 54,000,000 shares

*Vanguard 49,000,000 shares

*Fidelity 26,000,000

*State Street 15,000,000

So is BYD a Chinese Company?

OK Bob I reread and you are correct for those 2 models sold only in China.

Now? Q1 2025?

Regardless the Chinese cars are not only superior with both finish and technology they are a damn site cheaper.

Remember BYD is an advanced battery company that powers most things we use everyday, why? Because they make superior products and are cost effective as well as a step ahead with their tech.

Now they are making great cars using that tech and undercutting other manufacturers because they are competitive/smart.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

LOL Bob that post #56 made me laugh. Astute investors expecting a return, are US companies any different? Aussie companies? No. Plenty of foreign money in the US and Oz.

Warren Buffett invested millions into BYD when they were simply making batteries as he saw an opportunity,,,,,, as he does, that was years ago and look where they are now.

BYD supply batteries to Tesla and many other manufactures like Toyota etc.

Most western countries missed the boat and others took the cruise and now there are those that are crying like spoilt children.

Cheers, Steve.

Fred, it's not just the US. Most western countries are in the same situation and in reality has been self imposed/inflicted, high wages, high expectations riding boom times of the 50's through to the 90's and shot ourselves in the foot. The only thing I can see keeping Australia's head above water are the resources in the ground or else we would be a 2nd world country. Australia lost most of its large industry because we couldn't compete in the end. Greed caused this and little more.
Interesting thing is most of the countries can't see trees for the forest, eyes open and wake up.
OMO.

Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

In the UK, it was the idiot left wing unions. Thatcher smashed them, but they had already done the damage.

Approximately 14 Chinese car companies went out of business leaving BYD at the top remaining companies along with Tesla.
Who is BYD:
*BlackRock 94,000,000 shares
*Berkshire -Hathaway 54,000,000 shares
*Vanguard 49,000,000 shares
*Fidelity 26,000,000
*State Street 15,000,000

So is BYD a Chinese Company? - @Enzyte Bob

That's because these massive companies know China is the best place to invest.

You should listen to them because they know what they are doing.

P1 the OP certainly creates many interesting topics and while we do wander off topic I simply ask P1 to keep posting.

Bob aside from sales numbers (though I just see Tesla sales have dropped by 70%). Here in the Philippines as this is where most of us live is the following from my perspective. Sure I can buy a Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, bits are missing (Mitsubishi) etc. and have local service/parts centres in my area, I don't want one. If I want a European car I have to drive it 6 hours to Manila, If I buy a Ford I have to drive over 2 hours to Baguio or Angeles even further, if I buy a Tesla again Manila for a service.

If we buy a BYD they are focused on sales and service and have built a brand new large service centre and show room only half an hour away, companies don't invest these types of funds if they don't see growth and returns, they are not stupid. BYD make great cars at truly competitive pricing, even their dual cab pickups.

We are going BYD and can plug it in at home and charge with the excess power from the solar.

Cheers, Steve.

We are going BYD and can plug it in at home and charge with the excess power from the solar.

Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

A very sensible option.

The only reason I don't do the same is down to my exceptionally low milage.

However, my wife uses a Chinese motorbike that costs nothing to charge, and I have a smaller version that's really handy for short trips.

These are gel battery powered so they come in cheap.

The UK and US wouldn't even think about producing these sort of bikes, but they are a very cheap form of very low polluting transport.

Running costs are far too low to accurately calculate, but it's less than a Dollar a week for the pair.

It's that thinking that put China on top.

They saw a gap in the market and filled it.

That's pure capitalism at work.

One could ask Fred where they learnt about capitalism and then went a step further and refined the notion.

Western norms simply blame low wages in Asian countries for their woes but reality is the living standards and wages/lives have improved remarkably over the decades in these countries, there will be limits though to stay ahead.

Well off topic, we have a very large stand alone solar system that runs 3 to 4 A/C units 24/7 and 2 larger in the living area that run around 15 hours a day and we can't use all the generated power so for us it makes sense to go EV and free charging.

Our car now we purchased new 6 years ago and though less than 40K on the clock still costs us about P4k per month to run,,,,,, a change is as good as a holiday, the 2 bikes Mio and Raider are not used often so not an issue for running costs.

Also look at the EV market growth in India these days, quite staggering, good on em.

Cheers, Steve.

One could ask Fred where they learnt about capitalism and then went a step further and refined the notion. - @bbigpearl

I watched Swan lake, then the Chinese version.

The traditional version is beautiful. but the Chinese did a number on it.

I know everyone has seen the old version, so I'll just post the new one.

https://youtu.be/4sMc-p19FIk?si=vJP53sfgYjPfcEk7

The Chinese take an idea, add copious amounts of WOW!!!!!! then send it out.

Seems to be working Fred and many are bleating oh poor me.

In Oz we had European cars as the build and quality was much better than locally available made in Oz.

Moving to the Philippines we wanted equivalent but I wasn't paying for a European car here at ridiculous prices and found the Chinese brand Haima S5 that had all the EU bells and whistles at a quarter of the price, not ego brand driven so was a no brainer. No different to what BYD is doing/offering with their EV's.

We spent 1.9M pesos on a solar system to save money as we were sick of the high electricity bills, yes the panels and batteries are Chinese and the inverters Taiwanese. German or US products were 50% more with the same warranty periods etc.

The funds in Oz were earning 5% and taxable, the solar system gives us over 20% ROI and not taxable, so 5 years we get the money back whereas other systems offered would be 7 to 8 years ROI.

Why buy a pen for a buck when you can buy the same product from another country for half the price?

Nukes aside and we all pray that never happens but I see some serious soul searching is needed from many countries or they will slip behind advancing countries,,,,,,, Australia included.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

Fred said . . . .

That's because these massive companies know China is the best place to invest.You should listen to them because they know what they are doing.

*************************

PT Sri Rejeki Isman Tbk was once the largest textile manufacturer in Indonesia. It recently went bankrupt throwing 10,000 workers out of a work. They are joined by 60 other textile manufacturers who went belly up between 2019/2024.

A loss of 250,000 jobs do to the cheap imports from China and illegal imports adding to the problem.

@Enzyte Bob

And?

You are dancing around the edges and not facing the competition/economic reality. No clever answers will ever overcome the facts and there are so many countries that missed the boat.

Remember that China thinks in decades not next year, seems it's paid off, the capitalistic side definitely.

This is the new world, wriggle and squirm all you like but it won't change the self inflicted reality committed by us so called superior countries, the damage is done and we should be working with it and not against the inevitable.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

The US is like the much misunderstood version of the King Cnut story.

In this case the Cnut is actually trying to stop the tide.

It's really silly, but we are watching it happpen.

Approximately 14 Chinese car companies went out of business leaving BYD at the top remaining companies along with Tesla.
Who is BYD:
*BlackRock 94,000,000 shares
*Berkshire -Hathaway 54,000,000 shares
*Vanguard 49,000,000 shares
*Fidelity 26,000,000
*State Street 15,000,000

So is BYD a Chinese Company? - @Enzyte Bob

Apparently, according to Chinese deepseek,  the Chinese are not yet at Tesla's full capability for self-drive. Translation: BYD have thus far not been able to steal all of Tesla's self drive technology, only part of it. OMO of course.

And OMO they are trying to copy and match Tesla but they still significantly lag Tesla; nothing some well-placed IP theft won't solve.

My son has a Tesla with self drive and "self drove" it all the way from Raleigh NC to midtown Manhattan.

I would have no problem doing that myself with a Tesla.

I wouldn't try doing that with a "superior"  BYD. Sorry.

Fred the so called 1st world clever countries created that tide and don't like it. While I have many reservations with regards to Chinas humanitarian history but to this day there are plenty of other countries committing genocide and no one bats an eyelid, I'm afraid I have to applaud their tenacity as shown.

People need to ask themselves,,,,,,, where do most things I buy come from, why do I buy them? Because they are cheaper that the locally produced products that can't compete with many Asian countries.

High wages and expected/demanded conditions from us supposed 1st world countries simply left the door open for foreign competition. The one buck pen you buy over the 50 cent version because you believe it's locally made? The reality will hit home when you are suddenly paying over twice the price for the apparently home grown version that is really made in China and now has a humungous tariff brought on with stupidity.

I think back to the late 60's and 70's when I would go into a Coles department store and you could buy cheap things,,,,,,,, guess where most were made? The Philippines, then came Taiwan and now China, get over it or be competitive. I'm not condoning Chinas sordid history and methods nor plenty of other countries but at the end of the day? Why buy a 5M peso car when you can buy better for less than half the price, simple really.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

@danfinn

Interesting synopsis why one should buy a Tesla over BYD, perhaps other makes based on self driving abilities. My better half in Australia would never use cruise control in the Merc or the Peugeot nor the apparent crappy Chinese SUV we have here in PH. Me driving I use cruise all the time but self drive is a gimmick for the lazy, bit like the evening meal cooking itself,,,,, eventually grief comes and from memory a few problems with many supposed self drive cars that led to grief.

Tesla sales are down 70% Seems self inflicted.

BYD do not offer self driving cars in their range,,,,,, yet.

Dan I have no idea where you get the idea that BYD is superior but it is a hell of a lot cheaper and better quality. As you say OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

danfinn said . . .

And OMO they are trying to copy and match Tesla but they still significantly lag Tesla; nothing some well-placed IP theft won't solve.

*********************

Enterprising inventors world wide spend their life savings on R&D and invent a new Widget. It's sold on the Home Shopping Network.

Within days a knockoff from China including packaging is available on Ali Express, Temu & Shein for 60% less.

Fred the so called 1st world clever countries created that tide and don't like it. While I have many reservations with regards to Chinas humanitarian history but to this day there are plenty of other countries committing genocide and no one bats an eyelid, - @bigpearl

This is why I take the human rights thing with a pinch of salt. The 'witnesses' are from a group dedicated to removing the Chinese government, and they are backed by the US government, a bunch that has committed more wars crimes than anyone else (with the POSSIBLE exceptions of Hitler and Stalin).

@bigpearl

Dan I have no idea where you get the idea that BYD is superior but it is a hell of a lot cheaper and better quality. As you say OMO.

Cheaper yes. Better quality? I won't ask cites but I worked for a Chinese company, Lenovo, and I know that reasonable quality is only possible in Chinese companies when factories are managed by Westerners and manufactured to Western quality standards (ie much more than ISO9001 which is useless). , I am doubtful about your quality claim.  And as a you say, there is no self-drive with BYD. For many people that is the major reason they buy Tesla, BYD hasn't successfully copied that yet.

Don't forget the crusades Fred, All the crap aside in 2025 with media and do-gooders we are all entering a time of radical change and is either embraced or rejected, Plebeians like myself will never change governments nor a perceived status quo and simply enjoy the moment around us, Yes my next car and many other purchases will be non self driving Chinese products,,,,,, Who the hell needs a self driving car? Kind of defeats the purpose. Grab a cab or Uber.

As for long range nukes who the hell knows what the Chinese hold? Look at the Manhattan project. Secrecy.

I have if I'm lucky 10 or 20 years left but I do worry for my kids and grandkids that already look at a limited future.

Cheers, Steve.

@danfinn

A some what sad opinion of a vehicle you possibly have never driven while I have tried both out and personal observations put the quality of the BYD in front as well as the drive train and tech available.

Again a simple choice and as said Tesla is in Manila 6 odd hours away for a service meaning a night in a hotel. the Tesla is not going to take itself for a service while we sit here on the beach.

BYD have a service centre half an hour away, in and out in one day or less.

Tesla is riding on a self proclaimed name, not released a new model in how long and I would ask where all the components to build it come from. Might be assembled in the US as well as other countries that don't have the new stupid tariffs. Bit like most vehicles assembled in the US, up go the prices

Gonna stay with the crappy BYD that is not self driving,,,,,, what a gimmick.

Regardless my choice is a horrible BYD as it is not only half the price but serviced locally. BYD seem to be on top of what they are producing/selling with back up,,,,,, Ask yourself where Tesla is, nada.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.

bigpearl said . . . . Tesla is riding on a self proclaimed name, not released a new model in how long and I would ask where all the components to build it come from. Might be assembled in the US as well as other countries that don't have the new stupid tariffs. Bit like most vehicles assembled in the US, up go the prices

****************************

I tried to do some research on the quality of all electric cars produced in China.

An interesting of info reported on the Tesla via Gemini AI. Tesla's made in the Shanghai factory are considered to be better built of those produced than the ones in Fremont CA.

Hold off Steve, maybe Tesla might have a self driving autonomous car programed in the future to go to the dealer.

LOL Bob, wouldn't that be nice, bit like the dog taking a walk by itself, the mind boggles. Meanwhile while Tesla has been in the Philippines for some years, where I and others live have done jack sh1t for expansion and simply hang around high density areas with money (the market) while BYD has branched into the "provinces" to promote and service what they want to sell. Smart.

I have already decided the direction I'm headed and really a no brainer after looking at other EV's available in PH, Don't worry there are plenty including BMW, Jaguars etc. Cost prohibitive for a lowly Aussie like me.

6 or 8 years life until a new one may well see me out. who the hell needs a self driving car especially here in the Philippines,,,,, adding fuel to the fire.

Regardless I thought the topic was about nukes and if it ever happens simply put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

Cheers, Steve.

@bigpearl

Do you own a BYD? I have never seen one thus the OMO. You said :

1. BYD is cheaper. Easy to believe and would not challenge.

2. BYD is higher quality. I am a doubting Thomas on that because, having been employed by a Chinese Company in the past and spent some time working in China. I have my doubts. "Quality" is more than a gut instinct opinion; it is a multifaceted technical evaluation. Chinese companies not managed by the West haven't done so well in that arena. But with proper cites I could be convinced but I hate it when people demand cites from me as the effort usually isn't worth it just to prove a point on a forum.

LOL Dan and not as yet but the next 2 weeks will see one in the garage and can put the crap to bed. I have looked at and test driven both the Tesla and BYD and the later comes out the winner, my opinion and choice. While the Tesla might be quicker the BYD is more than fast enough for our commutes.

I would ask how long ago was it you worked in China on computers? Automotive manufacturing is a different animal especially these days.

We don't need cites nor proof, go look for yourself and make your own evaluation as we have done, I'm not a new car salesman, simply a plebeian looking to purchase a vehicle that suits us. Choice is made, was easy. touch and feel them both, drive them and then comment.

I care little for name brands as I'm not ego driven these days and simply want a decent set of wheels. 6 years with a Haima S5 and heading back for another Chinese car.

Bit like owning a Mac, love them or hate them but I also have a HP though a different platform works perfectly. Rolls Royce or a Cooper S? Tesla or BYD?

What is your choice for a nuclear warhead, personally I don't want to know but sure as hell will be nasty no matter the brand/model.

Cheers, Steve.