Using your own US Phone number?

I use v.o.i.p for my stateside number here in the Philippines. I was never able to receive texts. But lately my Philippine phone has not been able to receive sms from Wise, so I have to use their voice option. I have not been able to figure out the problem.

Essentially, using a phone number to text or speak a code is the weakest form of 2FA available. Sites that take 2FA seriously use autheticators and passkeys. Banks are probably not that concerned about security when you log into online banking, the banks are really trying to make it difficult for people who live outside the country. They will let you bank with them if you give a US Address but increasingly make it difficult to log in. So far, Google Fi gives me a real cell number so that should work for a while, maybe a long while,  but we will need to see which banks are expat friendly and which are not. We are forced to be flexible, it us not an.option. If they make access to our accounts ti difficult we will have to drop them. I suspect thete will always be institutions that provide easier access from the Phils than others. I used to think WISE was a good alternative but not so sure anymore. I so find that Capital One is a bit more advanced on workable 2FA procedures rhat most banks; they seem ti allow fingerprint as an actual passkey.

@AlbertaDonuts

It depends on your bank and is something you should definitely check before leaving the states.  The thing is though,  they change their rules sometimes.  It wasn't long ago most banks would give you a choice between a phone text or email but most have eliminated the email option now.  The only safe way is to have an actual USA phone number (non VOIP).  The way to do it is to get the cheapest plan you can find (on a separate phone), which is usually around $10 a month or so.  Then when overseas put the phone on airplane mode but with wifi calling enabled.  That gives you an actual USA number that works with all banks plus it's free calls and texts (back and forth) to the USA for around $10 a month.  Have to have a wifi connection to use it though.

@Stoic Voyager

I was not aware of the airplane mode, wifi calling hack you mention.  So far my VOIP number is working and a fraction of the price for Google fi.  I think I pay about $25 a year.  My financial institutions have loosened the rules and mostly will send 2FA to the VOIP number now or with a data code directly to my device, similar to an authenticator.

People travel and often without access to home phone sim so banks will need to adjust or loose customers.... not just expats but all the people out there traveling, especially retirees who can travel for longer periods of time.

Happy banking and travel everyone

@chughes6302

I use the carrier US Mobile.  They have international service.  I'm paying $25/month to use my US phone number in the Philippines.  I use it for Wifi calling but mostly to do two factor authentication for bank accounts and that sort of thing.  I have a Philippine SIM and number.  My phone supports a regular SIM (the Philippine one) and eSIM for my US number.  I had to get this all set up in the US before I left.  Hope that helps.

@chughes6302

Try [link under review], I've been using its services for half a year already because it provides a fast and reliable way to receive SMS verification codes, especially when I have problems with ported numbers or international plans. What I like best is that their numbers actually work, as they are frequently replaced with new ones.

@Stoic Voyager I was not aware of the airplane mode, wifi calling hack you mention. So far my VOIP number is working and a fraction of the price for Google fi. I think I pay about $25 a year. My financial institutions have loosened the rules and mostly will send 2FA to the VOIP number now or with a data code directly to my device, similar to an authenticator.
People travel and often without access to home phone sim so banks will need to adjust or loose customers.... not just expats but all the people out there traveling, especially retirees who can travel for longer periods of time.

Happy banking and travel everyone - @AlbertaDonuts

Iinteresting; are you in the US or in Canada?

Those are 2 huge improvements that I petsonally have not seen yet:

1. Sending 2FA to a VOIP. I have a magicjack number that is VOIP and never works for text 2FA. It seems VOIP magicjack might work in your case?

2.The device specific 2FA with code sent to device like an authenticator. That is what I have been waiting for here but so far no luck. Actually, that is a much more secure 2FA than texting a phone number which is easy for an expert to hack.

So as I mentioned, I just have google fi on an e-sim and use globe postpaid as my primary sim on my 2 sim phone while in the Philippines. FYI Google voice (free) still works here for some reason with both of my banks, even if it is technically voip and i have no idea why. But it is unpaid and who knows whether my banks will continue to allow it, thus I pay $25 for google fi which is a real cell number and very reliable for text and voice over cell networks in the Philippines.

I still need to understand what wifi calling is. I can call the states for free with magic jack (VOIP) but call quality is very hit and miss. I can call the states with google fi for $0,20 min with excellent call quality but for long discussions with banks and govt offices the cost really adds up. I do enable wifi calling but google fi still charges me. If anybody knows how I can get free calls on Google fi with wifi calling enables, please let me know. Thanks

My family uses T-mobile. Most of the plans have international texting, which is sufficient for us for receiving multifactor authentication codes. Unfortunately, international data is only on the more expensive plans, which in our opinion, is not worth it. International calls are something like 25 cents a minute, also not worth it.

We use Nettalk to call and recieve calls from US numbers. We have a dongle that connects to our router or a laptop, with a port where the phone line goes. When we travel we bring it along and our landline travels with us. Call quality largely depends on how good your internet is, and better if it's connected directly to the router as opposed to a computer.

For mobile data in the Philippines, it's cheaper to just get a local sim and either dual sim or hotspot it from another phone in your bag.

Oh, and get acquainted with people around you who have relatives working overseas. They'll have plenty of tips.

@danfinn Wifi calling just sends your calls through wifi instead of using a cellular network. The regular charges, if any, still apply. It helps when your cell signal is weak but you have good home internet.

I have a grandfathered Tmobile plan the costs me $120 for 4 phones. Each phone has 4.5 GB data per month. I am in the Philippines for 30 days. As soon as I landed I got a text from Tmobile that calls are 25 cents per minute, unlimited texts and free data albeit slow. Last time I used wifi calling, Tmobile still charged me 25 cents/min. I signed up my phone for a 30-day International Pass ($50) which gives my phone free international calls and 15 GB data. In Manila area data speeds are decent, I'll find out soon if data is good in Siargao. I hope power on the island will be restored by then, otherwise it will be a crappy Christmas.

@Psudonym

@danfinn Wifi calling just sends your calls through wifi instead of using a cellular network. The regular charges, if any, still apply. It helps when your cell signal is weak but you have good home internet.

Thanks for responding. Yes, rhat part I knew, at least for calling out. But there has been talk of a hack that forces wifi calling that involves going into airplane mode while in a wifi area. For that, your "first mile" is on the data network and somewhere it must convert grom the data network to the cell network.

Does T-mobile charge for those international wifi calls to the USA? Or do they consider it a domestic call? Does Google Fi? Both of the USA services use globe towers but you are bypassing the globe towers while in airplane mode and going to internet which, somehow, somewhere, connects to the cell network either in the Phils or in the USA.

If the transition to cell occurs on the US, then there should only be the cost of a US call, not international.

But I don't know how that works. Eventually I will find out. I do have wifi calling enabled and have called the US several times on Google fi but they still charged me 25 cents per minute even though I listed wifi calling as my preference. But I was not in airplane mode. Also, can a US Caller get to you over cell then wifi over here while you are in airplane mode? Some people have claimed that you can just use airplane mode to use international calling for free without an international plan. That seems a bit optimistic to me and I am not sure the forum members have the answer.

@danfinn

I am on  a grandfathered ATT First Net plan. My data is always off. I can make phone calls free of charge as long as I am connected to WiFi.  I pay around $70 per month for this plan. Currently spending 7 months in the PI and 5 months in the US.  Gio in the Philippines recently blogged about having a TMobile plan in the Philippines full time.  I believe the only caveat was that you had to sign up for the plan while in the US but I might be wrong   

@danfinnI am on a grandfathered ATT First Net plan. My data is always off. I can make phone calls free of charge as long as I am connected to WiFi. I pay around $70 per month for this plan. Currently spending 7 months in the PI and 5 months in the US. Gio in the Philippines recently blogged about having a TMobile plan in the Philippines full time. I believe the only caveat was that you had to sign up for the plan while in the US but I might be wrong - @Morgacj200424

Thanks for the info. I saw Gio's video but I also heard that an expat could not expect to have t-mobile international roaming indefinitely, ie you had to return to the USA after 6 months or so, but this may not be true anymore. Not sure. If you can use text and calls overseas "forever" with t-mobile, it would be similar to Google Fi which allows text and calling overseas indefinitely but slows down data after 90 days until you return to the US.

@danfinn

I use VOIP, Voice Over Internet Protocol.

It is great for receiving one time authorization numbers and for calling back to North America.   It is not great for receiving calls.  I don't recall the exact rate but it is approx .02 cents a call or a penny for every 5 min.

Look into VOIP.MS for rates.... the monthly fee is low as well.  I think I spend about $25 a year for this service that keeps me connected back home.

Hope this helps,

Donald

@danfinn I use VOIP, Voice Over Internet Protocol. It is great for receiving one time authorization numbers and for calling back to North America. It is not great for receiving calls. I don't recall the exact rate but it is approx .02 cents a call or a penny for every 5 min.Look into VOIP.MS for rates.... the monthly fee is low as well. I think I spend about $25 a year for this service that keeps me connected back home.Hope this helps,Donald - @AlbertaDonuts

We have several VOIP in the USA as well. I believe you are in Canada. Americans' most common VOIP is MagicJack and I think we still have Ooma and maybe Vonage. All of them work in the Philippines to some extent as long as the internet is good, ie the wifi signal is strong and the ISP has a good working DNS connection. For me with PLDT the DNS is good 95% of the time. I suspect in Canada you have similar VOIP choices.

What may be different, at least between institutions and maybe country practices, is that when sending the SMS methods, some institutions will not send 2FA codes to VOIP numbers. Some will (like your's) and some will not, like mine. From a source:

https colon slash slash voipdocs.io/en_US/troubleshooting/unable-to-receive-2fa-codes-to-sms-number

"If you didn’t receive a two-factor authentication (2FA) message, a.k.a. multi-factor authentication (MFA) or security code, on your number, it could be because the brand you requested it from doesn’t send 2FA messages to VoIP telephone numbers (TNs). This is a common issue within the industry for all VoIP/wireline providers, which stems from the concern some brands have with VoIP TNs being used to set up fake accounts on their websites. We see these deliverability issues most frequently when the 2FA or MFA is sent from a short code."

So for me, my magicjack VOIP cannot receive the codes.

But interestingly, and what saved me in the past was that Google Voice always worked for me and it is VOIP. Somehow google either convinced them that GV is secure or technically, GV appears like a cell network to them. I suspect the former. But GV is free and it seems flakey when used overseas for long periods of time. When I changed my phone in the Philippines I almost lost my GV. On a recent trip to the USA, I recovered it but I also installed a more reliable Google fi sim card solution while I was there (must be done in the usa).

There are plenty of expats like me who have experienced problems with SMS-texted OTP codes while overseas but in every case it seems each solved the problem in their own unique way. There seems to be no single solution; they are as varied as there are institutions sending 2FA. My ard reliable solution was to sign up with Google Fi international cell service while others have mentioned t-mobile and one has even contacted their bank to accept Philippine cell numbers or, in your case, your common VOIP service just works as-is, meaning you don't worry about accessing the US cell network from the Phils at all.

BTW I suspect banks are getting wise to the recent "sim card swap" scams which totally craters sms text 2FA security.  Perhaps banks are using it less? Thanks for your inputs. Conditions may be slightly different with Canadian institutions than US brands.

@danfinn

Everything you said rings true for Canada as well.  3 years ago financial institutions would not send MFA to non employment emails or VOIP numbers.  Turns out that a lot of retirees don't have work email and can afford to travel.  I guess enough of us threatned to take our retirement nest eggs out of their banks so we could have access overseas and they decided to work with retirees overseas.  LOL. 

If you have a trusted friend or family back home, here is a real low tech method to get MFA.  Have the bank send it to their phone number and then they forward it to you via whatever method you use to stay in touch with them.  Of course this only works if you set it up before hand making their number your number and if you do your banking when they are awake and you are awake, lol.

Happy banking everyone,

Donald

@AlbertaDonuts

Everything you said rings true for Canada as well.  3 years ago financial institutions would not send MFA to non employment emails or VOIP numbers.  Turns out that a lot of retirees don't have work email and can afford to travel.  I guess enough of us threatned to take our retirement nest eggs out of their banks so we could have access overseas and they decided to work with retirees overseas.  LOL.

I had never been requested employment emails or phone numbers for 2FA because at the time they started doing it I had been long retired. I don't think that is common practice in the USA; for sure most employers here would likely object to using these id's for personal reasons.  For my kids in the US the banks etc. just request their cell phone numbers. I do know that my CS at these institutions will not even discuss security issues. If you threatened to leave they would say 'hate to see you go'. When it comes to security policy there is no discussion.

If you have a trusted friend or family back home, here is a real low tech method to get MFA.  Have the bank send it to their phone number and then they forward it to you via whatever method you use to stay in touch with them.  Of course this only works if you set it up before hand making their number your number and if you do your banking when they are awake and you are awake, lol.

That of course is the final backup solution but I consider it, unless you only rarely use the online apps,  to be a terrible solution. Here we are 12 hours ahead of them asking them to drop what they are doing (maybe sleeping) to give us the security code. .

Happy banking everyone,

I suspect these 2FA/MFA problems only affect North Americans. From what I have heard, when Australians use 2FA they are permitted to use their Philippine phone numbers. I have never heard of 2FA being used in EU UK. American government and institutions seem to be impatient with, and have low concern for, any problems their policies cause overseas expats; even our govt health insurance doesn't work here even thought it is much cheaper.

I would say that, amongst the chief concerns of Americans planning to relocate here for retirement, on top of the list should be your ability to navigate through the communucations issues and other technical challenges you will face in dealing with government and private institutions from 16000 miles away.

Are you skilled on an internet that only works part of the time, where VOIP phone calls may only work 70% of the time? Where your banks and CC cards may prefer not to deal with customers in the Philippines, often because the Phils is identified as a security issue?  And where, regardless, you must provide a US mailing address?  If that seems problematic, best not to reside here permanently. Vacations are OK as long as you have an unexpired ATM and credit card.