Does corruption still exist in Indonesia?

lukereg wrote:

My parents flew from Singapore into Bali and were fast tracked through Immigration with having to pay anything. Singapore Airlines sorted everything out including the luggage and asked for nothing in return.
I go through Immigration at Jakarta airport a lot and I have not for the last few years had to wait while the officer looks at me expecting me to give him some money for reasons unknown. This seems to have disappeared. The immigration are becoming more professional there and it is beginning to resemble Singapore or Malaysian Immigration now.

The next thing to hope is that they get rid of VOA and the airport tax so there is less hassle at various points of the wonder of flying into and from Indonesia.

We usually get fast tracked too as most of my family have indonesian  passports and we have very young children. Ngurah Rai is great for helping the old and very young to go through quickly.

Ubudian wrote:

Mike, you need to differentiate from what used to be VIP VOA processing at Ngurah Rai (which is no longer available) and private companies that promise to offer such services. 

On certain Garuda flights from OZ to Bali there is on board, in flight official immigration VOA processing, but that’s about it from an Indonesian official or governmental entity.  And, since I haven’t looked into that particular service in some time, that might also be a thing of the past today. 

“Would this kind of thing be considered as corruption or VIP service?”

Quite obviously it’s VIP service and not corruption. 

Well noted Mike that you continue to avoid my direct question which you yourself raised on another thread…that being about the business of visa agents which you declared as being under the umbrella of your obviously broad and unique definition of corruption.

Also, considering that this topic of corruption in Indonesia has been exhaustively discussed with you already, I (and others) wonder why you feel the need to raise it, yet again?  That thread is here:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=348533

You seem to me to have a personal agenda in mind, and I for one would love to hear any personal stories you might have…not stories you read about on the internet, or heard via hearsay, but personal experience with corruption in Indonesia.

Fair enough?

edited to add link

Hi Ubudian,

No personal agenda at all and thank you for your opinion, and all opinions on whether corruption exists in Indonesia or not are most welcome.

Fast tracking also applies to Indonesians who wish to apply for passports and for guaranteeing that you pass your driving test and get a driving license. If you don't pay the "fast-track" money then you may or may not get your driving license, but paying it guarantees you will get it. I have no idea about how that works in Bali but it happens in Java.

By the way, My family and I often pay fast-track money. We do not see it as corruption whether somebody from immigration or another government department makes money from it or not. We see it simply as a convenience and a way of life here.

lukereg wrote:

Fair enough, but I still think it should be relaxed for the British. No one else. Just us. Not the Welsh though nor anyone from the Isle of Man. They are weird.

Probably not for the Scotitish if they vote for independance 

lukereg wrote:

The Scots would be mad to do so. They would lose more than the rest of the UK and would lose a lot credibility and financial aid.

Yeah but Sean Connery will be happy!!! 

Ubudian wrote:

“No personal agenda at all and thank you for your opinion, and all opinions on whether corruption exists in Indonesia or not are most welcome.”

Good to hear there is no agenda in your mind because it did seem that way in earlier postings.  But, no worries, I got it now, and thanks for clarifying. 

IMHO, and you are certainly welcome to disagree, there are opinions, and there are opinions again.  When opinions come from someone who has spent the last 16 years of their life totally immersed in the local culture, living here 24/7 as opposed to living in all sorts of other places in Asia and SE Asia…well…you can see where I’m headed.  And, when that opinion is further supported by another person of similar background…(referring to Pak Fred), well, once again you can see where I am headed.

Just so you know, I am not an expat.  I hold my Indonesian KTP, as for me, and given all of many personal reasons, this only made eventual sense.  Oddly enough I’ve been issued KP’s (voting cards) for the past five years although I’ve never once voted, and I’ve been a full voting member of my village Banjar for the past 10 years (again, never once voting but having plenty to say).  Along those lines of having plenty to say I can take pride in finally getting a new adat provision in our village which makes it almost impossible to outright sell, as opposed to lease, any of our village land to outsiders.  Bali, tidak di jual. Bunutan, tidak kampung nama Buletan. 

Our three sons hold dual citizenship and whatever they decide at age 18 is their call but my wife and I are pretty sure what their call will be.  It is my three sons, and their incredible birth right…as Balinese/Indonesian that I most concern myself with these days, and I doubt that will ever change.

I provide that personal information only to give you a bit of insight as to where my mind set is these days.

Cheers!

Thanks for your background. I already considered you as more or less a Balinese  We also have Balinese family in Negara.

For me, my children hold Indonesian and British passports and we own properties in Bandung and we just renovated a house for my in-laws and the house next door will be demolished and rebuilt for us as we plan to move back to Bandung this year or next year. Our kids may go to an International School or perhaps have a local education, although anyone who reads the BBC news may know that Indonesia along with Mexico and Brazil have the lowest ranked education systems in the world, so that is something we will need to consider when choosing a school.

As for corruption, I think everyone wants to see it wiped out as much as possible but I think it will be difficult. The high profile cases are certainly interesting to follow and good to see those big shots get locked up. As for fast-tracking, it's a way of life here and I mean for locals rather than foreigners whether it's paying to guarantee a passed driving test and driving license to getting a local passport in a few hours instead of waiting several days. Same with processing documents when buying property (I recommend using a professional and competent notaris). We are lucky to have a young new Mayor in Bandung, I met him and he is someone educated overseas with great ideas for the city. We have public parks with free wifi, they will build a skywalk in the commercial centre, renovate the airport, beautify the city with more landscaping, they have made it illegal to give money to beggars and if caught you will be fined Rp1 juta. He also told me that he wants to wipe out corruption. We will see about the corruption but right now it is still there in a big way.

Ubudian wrote:

You’ll find that the vast majority of expats on Bali don’t mind handing over 50K or 100K to a policeman here when cited for a legitimate reason…no helmet when on a bike, no, or expired license, going the wrong way on a one way street…whatever.

The alternative is to get a ticket, proceed to the police station and waste endless hours only to have the same result…50K, 100K out of pocket.  Or, of course you can refuse to pay the ticket at the police station and be held over for trial and not only pay the 50 or 100K, but court costs as well.     

Tourists who have any common sense appreciate this even more, since their time on Bali is generally very limited.

Dr. MichaelBeer wrote:

I fully agree with your point and really do not understand who can defend this kind of attitudes. The "poor" underpaid policeman gets his pocket money, but what about the slum people? Where do they get it from?

Yes there are so many very poor people struggling to survive in Bali as well as allover Indonesia. Most of us don't see them in Bali but they live in the backstreets of Kuta, Sanur, Denpasar...everywhere. I would rather that those billions of rupiah that some call "pocket money" for policemen be used to help the poor rather than to help some policeman buy a Toyota Jeep or a big new house.

Ubudian wrote:

You would have to be pretty naïve to think that the police in Bali are shaking down “slum people” on motor bikes. 

Obviously neither of you understand that 99.9% of the police on Bali are in fact Balinese.  The exceptions are some high ranking officers and junior officers who graduated from the academy in Java and are on a fast track for promotions.

Next time you’re in Bali Mike I’ll be happy to take you on a tour of those “back streets” you mention and show you some of the most wonderful Balinese compounds you can imagine. 

Each day at sunrise in Ubud four or five bemos arrive from Kintamani at the market bringing down a mixed group of beggars, usually with a child or two in tow, to ply their trade of begging.  Most all come from Surabaya in eastern Java or other parts of Java and some from Lombok.  The Balinese leave them alone, and I’ve often seen Balinese giving a hand out myself. 

The areas of Bali where there is real poverty among the Balinese is East Bali and in many villages in and around Singaraja. 

Poverty is a serious problem world wide, including some of the richest countries on earth, so it should be no surprise that a great deal of work still needs to be done here.   

I personally know quite a number of police, there are several in my wife's family.  None of them are running around in brand new cars, and for your information, the Balinese don't live in houses.  They live in family compounds, a great many of them being several centuries old.

Ubudian wrote:

“Also, I don't think Gianyar is representative of the rest of Bali.”

You’re right, it isn’t.  Gianyar is representative of the real Bali, along with several other regencies.     

All points from Denpasar south is “Disney Land Bali” or tourist Bali.