Migrating to Ukraine - Propiska needed immediately?

In case it takes the admins a while to allow the link it was the official State Migration Service of Ukraine - their info page on temporary visas in english.

In Ukraine, you cannot do anything without a propiska.  It is absolutely necessary.  You cannot apply a temporary or permanent residence permit, you cannot get a driver license, you cannot register your car, etc...

One way is to find someone, a friend for example, who will allow you to use their address to register you.  If you go with that person to the proper office, it is a short process.  Maybe half an hour depending how many people are in line at that moment. 

Second option is to hire a lawyer who will help you applying for a temporary residence permit.
Some lawyers allow to use their address some where.  By the way, if you are going to apply for a permanent residence permit, it is best not to use Kiev address.  Immigration office in Kiev takes forever.  I had this problem when I obtained the permanent residence permit.  Finally we talked to an immigration lawyer and we were told it is best not to use Kiev address.  For this reason many immigration lawyer use outside Kiev address and they get the result/approval much faster.  Keep this in mind when you apply for a permanent residence permit later on.

Gregorypak wrote:

In Ukraine, you cannot do anything without a propiska.  It is absolutely necessary.  You cannot apply a temporary or permanent residence permit, you cannot get a driver license, you cannot register your car, etc...

One way is to find someone, a friend for example, who will allow you to use their address to register you.  If you go with that person to the proper office, it is a short process.  Maybe half an hour depending how many people are in line at that moment. 

Second option is to hire a lawyer who will help you applying for a temporary residence permit.
Some lawyers allow to use their address some where.  By the way, if you are going to apply for a permanent residence permit, it is best not to use Kiev address.  Immigration office in Kiev takes forever.  I had this problem when I obtained the permanent residence permit.  Finally we talked to an immigration lawyer and we were told it is best not to use Kiev address.  For this reason many immigration lawyer use outside Kiev address and they get the result/approval much faster.  Keep this in mind when you apply for a permanent residence permit later on.

Wow - many thanks for that and good tip for when I go for permanent residence.

I still don't quite understand what the order is. I need a propiska to get temporay residence but don't I need temporary residence permission in order to get a propiska? A bit of catch 22 if you like.

I mean if an owner (whether me or someone else) will allow me to obtain registration on the property, can I register without temporary residence or D visa ?

Hello! let me clarify a bit.
your staps are:
- obtaing visa D
- come to ukraine
- obtain trp
- register the place of residence (propiska).

You can not register the place of residence if you dont have the trp. but you need to note and indicate the place where you will be registered at the moment of submitting the document for trp.

please DM me if you have any other questions

Ukrainian law states that you must register for residence (propiska) within 30 days of obtaining your TRP. Propiska is handled by the internal passport office. It should take a week or less to obtain.

Also suggest (not required) that you obtain your tax id, as it is required to be in the public health system and to obtain a family doctor. It's free, you paid for it with your TRP application, and my experience has been generally positive with healthcare in Ukraine.

All of the above was my experience.  My process was:

- Passport translated to Ukrainian
- D visa
- Go to Ukraine
- Local Ukraine cell number
- Temp residency
- Tax ID
- Residency registered through lawyer office (800 USD year)
- Open Ukraine bank account

I read with interest all the above. Some information a little misleading and some ok if  you have money too burn. and if you do have money to burn give the Ukrainian Government 100,000 usd and get TRP with 10 days. For most people, to arrive long term from the UK.
1. you need a reason to obtain a visa D (Kennsinton Embassy London).
2. if a visa D is granted you need to travel ASAP. As the start date for Visa D is the first day of the 90 Visa. So if you say travel 20 days after the start date of Visa D you only have 70 days left to obtain TRP.
3.Arrive in Ukraine. Go to Ovir.( with all your paperwork in order) Fill out paperwork and wait 15 to 20 days.
4. After you get the TRP you then have 10 working days to register at an address. Some say 20 or 30, but trust me do it in 10.
That is basically it. As soon  as you can get a Tax code. Open a bank account, If your Britsh Citizen i would advice Exim bank. Open an invester account with a Card account. Best bank for transfers from UK to Ukraine .Santandar. £25 transaction fee for transfers up to £1,000,000.
Remeber your TRP really only lasts 11 months if you are going to re-apply. As you need to re-apply at least 30 days before it ends.
Cost , well i did it for under £100. You can hire this and that for around £1500 to £3000. I registered at my wifes address, a friend of mine bought an apartment for his girlfriend (in his name) and registered there. There are legal people who will permit you to register with them costs from £500 to £800 per year.
Oh and perminent res cost me £80 but took 11 months 3 days, doing it via companies i do not know,

hope that also helps

All really interesting and hopefully useful.

Martin, to be clear and without naming names or causing friction what above do you disagree with ? It seems to me that everyone is saying the same thing but perhaps I've missed some important detail?

Some of the timings are incorrect as the laws have changed, and as the legal system can be a little slow, its best to one the ball as they say. i may have missed your reason why you wish to have a TRP in the Ukraine, so situations change a little foe each type. If its study, work, religiouse work or volentery work . then a sponser needs to help you. Business things need doing a little different. Marriage is easy and as above.
If you wish to throw money away hand over fist, then get an agent to do it for you, but if you like me , like a bargain, lol. Do it yourself. as for £100 do it yourself or pay upwards of £1800 to get others to do it for you. And one thing to remember, this cost is not a one of cost, its every year you wish to get a TRP. Yes a TRP lasts 12 months, but really its on the 11th month you need to do it all again. (NOT VISA D) just the in country stuff. The other little bit of advice i can give you is if you are in the Ukraine a month or so before you are applying for your visa D. Buy medical insurance in the Ukraine to cover you for a year. Its cheap, and its all you need to cover your applicaton. If you decide to buy in the UK, you will need fully details in a hard copy form and when you arrive will need to get it translated. and it will cost a packet. I bought "Back packer medical Insurance) £480 for 12 months. It had 22 pages in all. I arrived in Ukraine to be told we need it translating at £7.50 a side. mmmmmmm a lot. But i was told by the Ovir. go to an address( health insurance broker) buy it there. I did cost me £40. I reclaimed the UK one.
The registering at an address is very important, you need to do this after you get your TRP. The longer you leave it the harder things become. So dont sit on your ass, register within 10 days, cost about £3. Then give it a few days and collect your registration paperwork and get a local tax code (its free) comes on a small peice of paper, with a stamp on it. Dont loose it , you need it for a bank account, and to apply for a new driving licence if you have a UK one.
If you have a nice new BMW, dont bring it here, you will not get permission to register it here with a Ukrainian plate, and after one year you need to take it out of Ukraine and you cant sell it here.(legaly that is) And before people say oh i am wronge UK drives on the Right, LHD cars are permitted to be registered, ie from USA Europe ETC.
I have been here 4 years and have know got my Perminent res Visa.

Hope that helps a little

Registration can be with friends who own there property, or if your married your wifes address, or if you buy, your own address. So no need to pay hundreds of pounds for a process that is £3 and a one off .Through advacat its money every year, i got my TRP from this web site. They are all over the Ukraine, yes its a business and they charge £22.50 on top of the goverment fees. You will see it in Ukrainian. In google go top right hand side click the three spots and click translate, that is if the website i have sent you does not have the English version running. www.pasport.org.ua.
You can use this service after you get the permission to get TRP . which comes from the Ovir. The laws and that are changing and the Ukraine will go paperloss in a few months .so things will change a little.

Hes very helpful thanks.

Was your point about the car situation the RHD veheicles can't be registered in Ukraine? I have driven my car into the Ukraine some time ago. My understanding is I can apply for Ukraine reg plates and use the car for a year before driving out and back again. But maybe the RHD issue complicates things.

We haven't tried to register it yet because we want to do that in my wife's name so will need to drive to the border just for that we think. We're still not sure though if she can do that because she also holds Ukranian nationality which is in itself a sort of grey area.

Hi there. as a visiter you can bring and use it for one year. With TRP you can use it for one year, but after that you must remove it from the Ukraine. You will not be able to register it as its RHD, you will not be able to sell it, in the Ukraine. As of may 2021, cars over 5 years have a high tax rate. Fall foul of these rules and your next TRP may be refused. Having a TRP also means that your UK driving Licence will only be valid 1 year. No matter how many times you nip over the boarder. The Ukraine is going 100% digit, so they will know what your ideas are. You also may find it hard to insure it as well as you will not be on Ukrainian plates, so your insurance will have too be from the UK and cover you for a year, all cars with none Ukrainain plates are know subject to being stopped.( Due to high levels of scams etc etc.) In the Ukraine its the car that is insured not you. So you could visit me and i can give you my car, without any problems, like i can use any car so longs as that person has insurance on it. The police have a compter they check, not quit anpr but similar.
As to your driving licence, its only valid for 1 year with an internation card. Getting a Ukrainian one is simple ish just a pain in the ass. You can tack the test on a pc in english. Your first card is a provisional , lasts for two years. so longs as you keep it pritty clean without too many police hole in it. You just swap it for the full one. Lasts for 25 years and permits you to drive outside of Ukraine, even the UK. Up too a year.
I have heard of people saying , i have never been stopped, and my IDL ran out too years ago. so lucky for them. I know 3 people that have. 1 Been refused to renew TRP. and two that where told that the only way they can stay in Ukraine is by getting a TRP as they have been refused perminent RES.
So they must keep buying a new one each year. OK you say no hard ship, but it also means you have to have good medical cover at all times and there are a few other cost that may come your way , like not being able to have a job legally. When you have PRP you are entitalled to everything a Ukrainian can have and do with the exception of Voting and holding Goverment office.
I have a very unhappy friend who fell foul of the law. He had his TRP refused, his wife is unable to live in the UK as he does not Earn enough, so at the moment he visits for 3 months and leaves the Ukraine for there months., and thanks to bexit, Europ is not an option.
Hope this helps a little.
Oh and a friend who is at this moment in the UK, when he arrives back i will ask more about the car thing for you, but he had his car impounded at Lviv, and had to drive it too Spain to sell it.

This may help. Notice down the page NON Resident. you will be a Resident.

Interesting stories, thanks for contributing Martin. One point to note to round out the knowledge of new readers..  Permanent Residency in Ukraine is not permanent. It needs to be renewed in 10 years.

Yes you are correct, but in almost every country in the world PRP is generaly excepted its 10 to fifteen years. I guess it should be called Almost perminent residency permit. lol

While I can concur that those who register foreigners for a living professionally may charge them 500-800 pounds a year to register, I was given a quote of $1000 USD myself, I must still declare this is highway robbery! 

When you think about it, it's not strictly ethical anyway to register at an address that you have no relations to regardless of your registration is handled by an attorney. 

The hesitance from landlords to register you is due to a misunderstanding that if you are registered at their address, they cannot kick you out.  The reality is *TEMPORARY* registration grants no such right to a tenant.  Attorneys know this very well.  A minority of landlords understand it too.  When these 2 get together, they create a business based on people's ignorance with a great return! 

Shop around because I've seen prices as low as $100 too.  You don't pay till you are registered.  Unless you are dumb enough to pay upfront, you can't be scammed.

Stop obsessing if it's handled by an attorney, it's less problematic.  Does an attorney have more privilege to loan out an address and profit from it than some guy who just wants to make a pocket change?   Or does Ukraine have a pool of government-sanctioned addresses to be loaned out for profits and only attorneys have access to this pool?   An unethical scheme is still unethical regardless of the actors or how much money you scatter over it!

Even for $100, I am debating with myself if I should just skip it.  I don't need to drive because I live in the city center.  I don't go to school and have no kids going to school.  The public healthcare here sucks and I rather go to a private physician anyway.  Though I'm physically in Ukraine, my income is from the U.S. because I work remotely.  My only banking needs is taking money out of an ATM from my American bank, who is nice enough to reimburse me all foreign transaction fees!  So no, I don't need a Ukrainian bank account either.  If anyone can see a good reason I should register, please enlighten me.  Yes, the law requires everyone, unless you are a tourist, to register, but how much is the fine if you don't?  Certain fines in Ukraine are such a formality that it's cheaper to pay fines than to follow the law!  HaHa

Someone just told me that Propiska is such an arcade system that the government doesn't even care that you are registered in one city and physically live elsewhere.  That makes paying 800 pounds for "professional" handling of this matter even more ridiculous. 

In fact, it's common a form these days would ask for 2 different addresses, 1. your propiska address, & 2. the address where you actually reside.

Some guy just advised me that though the fine for not registering is not high and the chance for one to get checked randomly on the street by the authority is very low, it will be discovered anyhow at the airport eventually if I ever want to travel outside of Ukraine.  Can I be banned from returning to Ukraine?  Possibly.  Thus, as much as it's a pain and a formality that serves little good purposes, one should still try to register.

Hi BeHealthy

A few interesting points you make. First point is i assume that you also dont get a TRP, because if you did or do your registered address is shown in the DIYA.
You are correct that for a advocate to request cash to register you at an address is a money making scheme, or even a scam. How can i say this, well
If your here as a volunteer, your address would be that of the company that is your sponsor ie a church etc.
If your here as an investor it would be your business address.
If from marriage it would be your own property or family members address.

Second point . When you are registered at an address (Legally)   The owner of that property is not able to sell it, as when a check on the property will show you registered there, and you need to de-register in person, . Temporary registration does expire , and you drop into a black hole, but the address of your registration if free from obligation about you. The days of chuck a couple of hundred dollars is coming to the end.

Third point, fines and stops etc etc. Firstly, if you where to get stopped, for what ever the reason, you need to show your passport,  TRP or PRV . The police have an app that will show all your details , so a fine is the least of your problems.
Last year a guy in my town was involved in a car accident (Taxi) as you well know the police always have to attend, on checking they found he was an over stayer, by 6 months, He was arrested and too cut a very long story short  he was put on a plane, given a fine, (Didn't tell me how much) and was banned from entering for 5 years.
In my area a raid on an area the FSB found 4 people that should not have been here, they where put on planes, and banned for 10 years each.
As the Ukraine is going full digital and paperless (lol) may happy but not this year, details of you and me and your friends will become more available. Only takes one wrong move  and your in deep shit.
My good friend who have just bought a 750,000 usd property fell foul three days ago. He is here with a PRV, but he has been driving on his UK licence for 2 years here. Routine check, for forgetting to put his lights on while driving out of town, resulted in him having to pay 20,000 uah and must report to police station to see what else may happen. The car was on UK plates and is in a compound. I guess and its only me guessing he pay have to surrender the car, pay the fine and get a Ukrainian driving licence.

martin Odesa

Thank you for your comment.

Yes and no.  I don't have TRP today but am in the process of getting it.

My attorney is founding an LLC for me so that I can get a 3-year TRP.
So far no address registration is needed.  In fact, he told me propiska is the last thing to do after I already have a TRP.

We are using my actual address for the company.  When I asked him I'd need a different address for the propiska than the one for my company since my landlord wouldn't register me, he told me it's not a problem at all that the propiska's address isn't synced to the rest of the doc!

In fact, I've come across some Ukrainians who are still parking their propiska with their parents even tho they moved out 3 decades ago.

HI there

Yes you register after you get your TRP. cost is 25 uah takes 2 to 3 days. Your advocate is incorrect. Under the digital DIYA all your details are held central. I for example had to travel 70 km to deregister and back to my home town to re-register when i payed for my Apartment. I Agree what has been said by others, that you dont need too live at that address just register at an address, and a TRP registration only lasts for 12 months, and then it falls into a black hole. But when a person is registered at an address , the owner of the address is not legally permitted to sell it, without you de-registering or they need to go through a legal form and judges to have you removed. That is messy and costly. ( I speak from personal experience ) it took me 9 months to clean up registration on an address.

martin odesa

Hi,

My first 3 posts are my opinions only, not that of my attorney.

Below is what my attorney is doing.

He is in the process of creating an LLC using my real address.
Then I'll pursue a TRP.
Afterward, I'll get a propiska using someone else's address.  The $100 deal I came across. 

Now, here is my future plan.  Again, I haven't discussed it yet with my attorney.   Until I buy my own property, I'll keep this propiska address by paying $100 a year.  But everything else I do will be my real address.   

Are you suggesting the LLC and propiska have to have the same address?

Hi there

No No the way you are doing it is all good, just make sure when you get your TRP and you pay the 100usd, you go with the person to the government registration office. They and you need to be there as you need to sign cost is 25 uah. normally ready after 2 or 3 days. If your told you do not need to . The paper will mean jak as your signature will not be on the system.

martin

Thanks for the clarification.

Now, changing the subject on you.  Do the Ukrainians call their attorneys "advocates"?  My attorney has "advocate" on his business card. 

An advocate for me sounds almost like someone championing a particular cause, e.g. global warming, animal rights, etc.  haha

Sorry for inundating you with questions.  You said propiska takes 2-3 days. 
So how does it work?
On day one, I show up with the property owner to register.
Now, is the authority expecting me to leave my passport with them and pick it up in the next few days?
I really don't like the idea of leaving my passport with them.  Can I pay to expedite so that they can stamp it while I wait?   Thank you

Hi there

Yes they like to be called Advocates. Strange for me too as i see them as Solicitors.

martin

Hi there

sorry for two reply's, You and the owner who gives permission show up together, he or she will have there , documents to prove they own the address, there tax code, and there Ukrainian ID card (they call it there passport). You only need your TRP card. you only need to show it, and sign on a piece of paper.
Pay 25 uah in the terminal and that's it. I do not know if you can pay for a faster route (sorry) for myself it was not a problem to wait a few days. Oh and they dont keep your card only scan it into a pc and photo copy it,

regards

martin

Hi,

If I understand you correctly, I do *NOT* have to leave behind any documents with them on day one.

So in 2-3 days, do I have to go back to pick up a document called Propiska, or do 2-3 days simply mean it becomes effective in their computer and I do NOT have to go back again at all?

Thank you

Hi there

Yes you do not need too leave any documents or visa . NOTHING. just show they will check and photo copy. After 2 or three days time (working week days) just go back an pick the Propiska up. just a piece of paper with a stamp and signature on it. With a TRP. it will last for one year, in my case. So i had to re-register again. In your case if you have a 3 year TRP. you will only need to do it again, when you get a new TRP. IE in three years time. IN short, when you renew a TRP you need to re-register as you will be given a new number on your TRP, (Like changing your passport). Just a little advice, do not let anybody keep your TRP, you must keep it with you at all times, when out. Lock you international passport away in a safe place, but always keep your TRP card with you. Hope that helps for you.

martin

3 year TRP ? I wonder who can get one of those?

3-year TRP is what my "advocate" (still trying to get used to this term) has sold me.

He offers 2 options.
1. set me up as a "volunteer".  I can get a 1-year TRP
or
2. set up a company for me.  As a "business owner", I can get a 3-year TRP

Since the cost of #2 isn't too much more than #1, I naturally pick #2.  Again, I am in the middle of this process.  Until I have a 3-year TRP in my hand, this is all theory.   However, I believe it's very low risk because every "advocate" in Ukraine throws the same pitch! 

At first, I couldn't understand why the cost of #1 isn't far lower than #2.  After some thought, I am guessing a big part of the cost goes to the organization which is sponsoring me.  Since this is all paper exercise (when I am actually not volunteering there), the organization doesn't want to be bothered unless it's real money.  This is the unfortunate aspect of Ukraine.  Even non-profit organizations can be bribed, and attorneys facilitate it! 

With #2 it's all legit.  There is no law mandating a business has to be a success!  In theory, I can be a lazy ass business owner for the next 3 years doing nothing.  In this case, all the cost goes to the attorney.  He is the one who has to get my tax id, incorporation, work permit, and finally TRP.

#2 does take more maintenance.  If the business is making money, I have to report monthly.  If not, quarterly.  I am thinking for the first time around, I'll get someone to help me to fill out the form.  For all subsequent filing, I'll just follow the first one as a template. It shouldn't be that hard to fill in 0's everywhere with Google Translator.

On a different subject, if one ever wants to pursue permanent RP (PRP), #2 paves the way toward it.  One cannot immigrate by buying properties in his own name.  However, one can invest $100K USD in a company to get PRP in one year.  If this company happens to invest in real estate, and the owner of the company happens to live there, so be it!   Don't you just love Ukraine? 

I've heard of a rumor on the street that one can still get PRP by buying properties in his own name, but it will take 5 years.  First, I can't confirm if the rumor is true.  Second, Ukraine has one revolution every 10 years.  A process that takes 5 years is just too long for me.  Who knows what the next regime would do to immigration.  As an American, I rather park my assets in a company anyway than my own name to better protect me against lawsuits and divorces.  Haha

Hi Martin,

Thank you so much for your clarification as always.  After I submit the propiska application, would they allow someone else to pick it up for me in 3 days?  Looking at my calendar, I may want to fly home for the holidays after I submit my application without staying around for 3 more days. 

Thanks

Hi to all,

Anyone knows a serious lawyer with reasonable prices here ? I have a permanent residential permit but learned that I should have renew it when I was 45 years old. I need some help to renew it as well as some help to pay the fine.

Tried to look for some lawyers on the net but either they simply don't answer to requests, do an horrible job or ask for unacceptable high fees.

Thanks in advance.