Brexit and its implications for British, HU and any other citizens

Must be getting close; the Remain group have just found out about the gaping hole they have left in their "Stop Boris" wall; better known as something called "The Order of the Council", which appears to let the Government suspend the Benn Bill until after 31 Oct.  Now this is known and no-deal seems to be a genuine issue, if the EU really want a deal, then they have a month to agree on something.

Cynic wrote:

....
I reckon they will leave with some kind of deal.  At the end of the day BJ will still want to be able to ride his bike down the street without some crazed loon pushing him off under a bus.

Optimistic to say there will be a deal but it'll have to be one that suits BoJo never mind the population. He'll never be able to ride a bike in the street again.  Half the population will be lobbing tomatoes and the other half protecting him and lobbing tomatoes back.

Tory party conference this week. 

Should be interesting to see what policies come out of that.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Tory party conference this week. 

Should be interesting to see what policies come out of that.

40 hospitals to be built. (only if they win next 2 elections) 6 if not and to Micro chip all cats 🙀 I've heard so far.

SimCityAT wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Tory party conference this week. 

Should be interesting to see what policies come out of that.

40 hospitals to be built. (only if they win next 2 elections) 6 if not and to Micro chip all cats 🙀 I've heard so far.

That's a radical range of priorities.  How are they going to staff the hospitals? 

Maybe the next step is to microchip the immigrants working in the hospitals and the cat invasion and threat will fade away.

So we are looking at a further extention...

SimCityAT wrote:

So we are looking at a further extension...

Yes, think so. Boris cannot ignore the law and he cannot ask for one then immediately ignore it. 

Somehow Boris is currently looking like he's got further than Teresa did.

However, I cannot see a lot of waves of positivity emanating from Brussels.

The border down the Irish sea is not a good idea for the cohesiveness of the country. 

DUP probably signed up to it because it's the best offer of a bad lot.

SimCityAT wrote:

So we are looking at a further extention...

The PM has to ask for one and the letter is set out for him, but it's very clear it's nothing to do with him and he doesn't agree with it, as seems to be true of the majority of UK citizens.

Fred wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

So we are looking at a further extention...

The PM has to ask for one and the letter is set out for him, but it's very clear it's nothing to do with him and he doesn't agree with it, as seems to be true of the majority of UK citizens.

Maybe he personally doesn't agree with it but he's not Charles I.   

He has to obey the law like everyone else.

Some reports are saying that opinion has swung the other way now - might be something here!

Update:  LBC reported the Hungarian Foreign Minister was seen in Whitehall and the rumour is that the HU govt will veto the extension - so looks like Boris will crash the UK out on the 31st.  Daily Express reported Danish PM said she and others had been ramping up working towards no-deal for a month or so.

Update and opinion:

I'm surprised BJ has said NI could be in both Customs regimes.  He's made that concession on trade for NI but I think he's precipitating the break up of the country.  If NI can be in a special regime why cannot the other nations have their deal as well.   It's Teresa's deal without the rest of the country.

On the other hand, we accept the autonomy of the Isle of Man and the common purse and that the Channel Islands are outside the EU.   What's the real difference?

I think BJ wants to be PM more than he wants the country to stick together.   We've only got 20 days to go and we're not seeing anything on free movement or EHICs etc.

It;s time for a dose of common sense - unfortunately the politicians on both sides don't have any.
The lot are more concerned with political power, idiotic political ideals, and cash in their pockets to give a flying crap about the people they're supposed to represent.

Scotland, or at least some of Scotland's politicians, want out of the UK in the name of independence, but they then want to give up their new political freedom by joining the EU - That's just stupid - They either want independence or they don't.

Most of Northern Island wants in to the UK, but also in to the EU (My head spins)

The EU wants NI in, even if the UK is out and seem to be willing to restart the troubles in order to get what they want. That or start their very own stupidity to mirror the English invasion of Ireland so many idiotic monarchs and much religious persicution ago.

There is a rather nice phrase - A dog's breakfast.

Fred wrote:

Scotland, or at least some of Scotland's politicians, want out of the UK in the name of independence, but they then want to give up their new political freedom by joining the EU - That's just stupid - They either want independence or they don't.

Most of Northern Ireland wants in to the UK, but also in to the EU (My head spins)

The EU wants NI in, even if the UK is out and seem to be willing to restart the troubles in order to get what they want. That or start their very own stupidity to mirror the English invasion of Ireland so many idiotic monarchs and much religious persicution ago.

There is a rather nice phrase - A dog's breakfast.

I saw some guy on the TV - might have been Yanis Varoufakis (ex Greek Finance Minister) - and he referred to it  all as  "A Dogs' Brexit".   I found that quite amusing.

The problem with Sturgeon and Salmon is - apart from being a bit fishy - is that they are one trick ponies.  All they can do is witter on about independence as though they had any power to bring it about.  Then what?  They don't really a good record on governance or economic development.   There was some SNP guy commenting on the BBC maybe and he said that the next Scottish election is proxy for another independence referendum.   

Pfff...in your dreams matey.  I don't see Westminster agreeing to that for a generation.  Hopefully the Fishy friends will be with Davy Jones by then.

A dog's Brexit sums things up nicely regardless of your political bent, but the gentleman you mentioned, Yanis, is a serious Richard Head. He might well be a very intelligent RH, but a RH he remains.
His party includes Assange and Chomsky, a pair of utter nutters, neither of whom are Europeans, or English.
Most of the other main players in his bunch are communists, marxists, anarchists, and a variety of other far left dangerous political idealists.

Not that 'Escape' is nutter free, a number of their ranks being ultra right wing racist morons with policies that make Stalin look like a fluffy bunny.

Political ideals are seen as a straight line stretching from the extreme left to the extreme right, but I see it as a vertical circle, fence sitting useless centrist parties at the top trying to do an impossible balancing act but not actually believing in anything, then sloping down the circle through the more sensible slightly left and right, working their way slowly down to bum hole politics at the bottom where the ultra left and ultra right try to become mass murdering dictatorships only separable by the name they use for their particular brand of murderous idiocy.

Fred wrote:

A dog's Brexit sums things up nicely regardless of your political bent, but the gentleman you mentioned, Yanis, is a serious Richard Head. He might well be a very intelligent RH, but a RH he remains.
His party includes Assange and Chomsky, a pair of utter nutters, neither of whom are Europeans, or English.
Most of the other main players in his bunch are communists, marxists, anarchists, and a variety of other far left dangerous political idealists.

Not that 'Escape' is nutter free, a number of their ranks being ultra right wing racist morons with policies that make Stalin look like a fluffy bunny.

Political ideals are seen as a straight line stretching from the extreme left to the extreme right, but I see it as a vertical circle, fence sitting useless centrist parties at the top trying to do an impossible balancing act but not actually believing in anything, then sloping down the circle through the more sensible slightly left and right, working their way slowly down to bum hole politics at the bottom where the ultra left and ultra right try to become mass murdering dictatorships only separable by the name they use for their particular brand of murderous idiocy.

Tell us what you really think there Fred!

Yanis certainly ain't a winner - he got the boot as Minister - but like BoJo, he's a funny popular guy so people like him anyway.    No-one can say the same of Trump*  (for example) - no charm or humour at all.


* Off topic but jeez, he excelled himself this week - what did he think would happen in Northern Syria when Turkey invaded?  He starts a war and offers to mediate.  Either genius or plain nuts.

I'll go with total F moron, and a dangerous one.
His version of politics, left or right, hardly matter - but his stupidity does

fluffy2560 wrote:

Tell us what you really think there Fred!.

You can take the incredibly handsome sexy beast out of Barnsley, but you can't take Barnsley out of  the incredibly handsome sexy beast.
Barnsley is a town that is well known in the UK diplomatic corps as a place not to look for new members so, with that in mind, I can happily say Westminster is full of soft pillocks, the EU parliament more so.

This piece lists a bunch of MPs and where they stand on Brexit.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/po … 1-10014478

As you will note, many were too cowardly to state their opinion because they know they're going against democracy for their own selfish reasons / cash stuffed in their pockets / daft politics, so they wimped out of answering the question like the pathetic lumps of soggy dog droppings they are.

If an elected representative is too cowardly to state their opinion on such a massive issue, they should be removed from office by their own party and, if that doesn't happen, they should be banned from standing.
Whenever the next election is, these wimps are going to get a serious slapping right in the ballots.

Fred wrote:

I'll go with total F moron, and a dangerous one.
His version of politics, left or right, hardly matter - but his stupidity does

He's not just dangerous, he's seriously dangerous.   

He was seriously dangerously deluded about WW2 Normandy - the Kurds were supporting the Allies in Albania and Greece within the British Army. 

Alternative facts do not get you every time.  But it fits with his BS narrative and ignorance of his electorate.   You'd think people would do some fact checking but even in the face of the real facts they still go with fake news.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Fred wrote:

I'll go with total F moron, and a dangerous one.
His version of politics, left or right, hardly matter - but his stupidity does

He's not just dangerous, he's seriously dangerous.   

He was seriously dangerously deluded about WW2 Normandy - the Kurds were supporting the Allies in Albania and Greece within the British Army..

All well and good about the Kurds, but....

But maybe a better question to ask... Where there any Trumps at Normandy?

Seems to me Fred Trump was too busy profiteering from the war to actually fight:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trum … stigations

But, given that the Trumps immigrated from Germany, there may have indeed been Trumps at Normandy. But maybe on the "other side".....

klsallee wrote:

...
All well and good about the Kurds, but....

But maybe a better question to ask... Where there any Trumps at Normandy?

Seems to me Fred Trump was too busy profiteering from the war to actually fight:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trum … stigations

But, given that the Trumps immigrated from Germany, there may have indeed been Trumps at Normandy. But maybe on the "other side".....

You've got to look for the Drumpfs as they changed his name and who can blame them.   I am sure they were fine in Germany but for English speakers it sounds really rather Dumbf.  I think The Ds instinct in WW2 would be to set up a brothel on the beaches - early Drumpfs engaged in that business.

BTW, I'm interested to see if BoJo's alignment and mutual admiration club with Trump gets any leverage for the cops to issue an international arrest warrant for Anne Sacoolas and extradite her back to face the courts now they know she doesn't have immunity.   If she'd run off to Europe they'd have had her back in a day via the EU arrest warrant.

BoJo is making a big mistake in trying any deal with the US at the moment as the president is known to fly off in any direction he fancies depending on which side he got out of bed or what the ultra right comics tell him that morning.
That factor makes Brexit more difficult when it comes to future trade and means the UK has to look for a return to old commonwealth partners and China.
Boris would be mad to bother with the US as an essential partner, so he has to look at them as a last resort or a spare that might be handy.

UK & EU have made a deal, But it will not get through parlament on Saturday when they vote on it. Are we about to see another Extention?

I'm listening to the BBC world service at the moment - I can't see the Unionists going for it.
Labour will vote against it because they want to do anything anti Tory. The Limpdems will vote against it because they want to reject democracy, and the SNP will vote against because they want independence, but under EU rule.

Looking at the opinion polls and last EU election, I can see the Labour and LimpDems taking a rare slapping with a wet haddock come the next general election.

SimCityAT wrote:

UK & EU have made a deal, But it will not get through parlament on Saturday when they vote on it. Are we about to see another Extension?

Boris will have to go for the extension because there will be a lot of underlying work to be done. I am wondering what the DUP have got in return - what's it worth to them?  £10 billion over 5 years?  I don't think it'll pass Parliament.

Juncker has just ruled out any further extensions.  Lot's of MP's who had previously said no, are now on the radio saying things like "Mmmm, he got rid of the backstop, maybe there is something to think further about".  It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

There could be a 2nd Referendum.

SimCityAT wrote:

There could be a 2nd Referendum.

Maybe; apparently all they have to do is get the Government to agree to fund it; there is some doubt about turkeys voting for Xmas.

Cynic wrote:

Juncker has just ruled out any further extensions.  Lot's of MP's who had previously said no, are now on the radio saying things like "Mmmm, he got rid of the backstop, maybe there is something to think further about".  It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

Don't you think it's the fat PM that has to sing at the end?  Probably Rule Britannia. Or Jerusalem.

I've read a summary of the agreement posted on the BBC and I already don't like it as it'll precipitate the break up of the UK.  They've covered social security but they don't seem to have said anything on the EHIC.  I wondered if there was going to be anything on car insurance or DLs.

At least there will be a transition period. Maybe one should be grateful for small mercies. 

If they vote Saturday, I don't think it'll get through. There's not enough time to read and absorb it. No-one would be rushed into a contract on that basis so why would anyone agree to such a treaty in 5 minutes.  Boris will have to ask for an extension and despite what anyone says, I bet it gets granted. Juncker doesn't have to have the last word.

You mean the 600 pages that no one has even got yet. So when are they to read it?

SimCityAT wrote:

You mean the 600 pages that no one has even got yet. So when are they to read it?

Haha, yes.

I thought it was all written on the back of a fag packet and discussed over a cup of tea one afternoon?!

(Note to US readers:  fag = cigarette, not what you think)

Cynic wrote:

Juncker has just ruled out any further extensions.  )

Do you believe anything that plonker says?
I don't.

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

You mean the 600 pages that no one has even got yet. So when are they to read it?

Haha, yes.

I thought it was all written on the back of a fag packet and discussed over a cup of tea one afternoon?!

(Note to US readers:  fag = cigarette, not what you think)

I have visions of Boris with a fag in his mouth. As luck has it, I'm not American or my mental picture would have been far worse, and any photos worth a fortune.

One can't help but notice how the EU position has changed from refusing everything to making agreements. They were banking on the time wasted by May and traitorous British politicians to remove article 50, but they've realised their attempts have failed so decided to negotiate.
The EU's tactics in this has demonstrated the UK's need to get out.
Junker, utter bar steward that he is, is probably ruling out extensions this week because he wants a deal to go through, but he'll change that position next week if parliament reject everything.
Basically, he's a git.

Fred wrote:

Cynic wrote:

Juncker has just ruled out any further extensions.  )

Do you believe anything that plonker says?
I don't.

No I don't but some people (including him) thinks he's authoritative on the matter.   You'd think that the member nations wouldn't let the guy speak for them but they do. 

I don't like Tusk either. 

That's one of the reasons people voted out - Parliament being overruled by Brussels.

Its getting funny now that Farage wants an extention

SimCityAT wrote:

Its getting funny now that Farage wants an extension

I don't think it's that funny - he wants an extension AND a general election.  That's because he'll wipe out the opposition with his Brexit Party.  I think he's almost got a shot at being PM post-BoJo.

He's another one I feel would be better at the bottom of the ocean than anywhere he's able to take breath and speak.