Brexit and its implications for British, HU and any other citizens

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

klsallee wrote:

By commenting on her physical appearance in this way, you are dehumanizing and objectifying her. And you are really coming across as a misogynic. You, who claims to be a liberal. Sad.... Stop it. Else from your rhetoric it might be hard to tell you apart from white male privilege groups in the USA...... Which is really sad.

Ooo...fighting talk.....

Ah, well how wrong you can be!   Bit of a cultural deficit there matey.

Ran your original comment by many women I know. All found your comment very insulting to women. You are arguing from the completely wrong perspective. And that is an insensitive one. And  very non-liberal. That is why there is a growing "Me Too" movement. So many men just don't get it when they are insulting women. So, all other comments by you are just excuses along that same line of ignorant insensitivity (such as trying to excuse this as a cultural issue.... oh, please... an excuse could not be worse). If you don"t get that, I can not help you.

Man up. Yes. You need to apologize.

Pfff....what a silly argument.  Did your sample include mentioning the Dallas character?

I'm insulting Nicola's character and her politics.   Definitely not going to apologise for trying to save my country from unnecessary division and as part of that criticise the poison dwarf who is coming to be THE symbol/figurehead of that divisive argument.    She's totally fair game.

BTW, her predecessor (Alex Salmond) could have passed for Shrek. I don't see anyone complaining Me Too about calling him Shrek as some kind of insult to his gender.  He's fair game too.    If it makes any difference to your Me Too argument, he's going to be on trial on sexual predator charges next year.

I'm most offended by your Shrek insult; he's far too nice to be compared to a politician. Are you anti-green and what has that poor onion like ogre ever done to you?  As Kermit famously noted, It's not easy being green.

Fred wrote:

The Tories are showing well in the polls, and have been since rubbish May realised she was rubbish and scuttled off to wherever rubbish politicians go when they're politically dead.
Boris, whilst clearly a git, is also a strong leader and that's what the UK needs right now. Corbyn is even more rubbish than May and the only reasons he's still leader is the far left are pushing for a Marxist at the head. The electorate know he's a prat and will very likely punish Labour as they did the Tories under May. Brexit, the party, might very well hold a party on 13 Dec.

Talk about nails and heads. I was a bit out with the Brexit party's party, but only for the wrong reason. Nigel, him of the earthquake name, was very happy even though their political support made the LibDems look popular.
The electorate punished Labour but, all all the best sets of idealists, their far left are blaming everyone but themselves. I'd be surprised if they don't demand another election because democracy got it wrong again and the British people don't really want a tory leader.

klsallee wrote:

After all the Irish and the colonies got tired of the English. The Scots seem to be moving in that direction, and the Welsh are getting an inkling for the same. If you want to people in a union maybe start by not dehumanizing their leaders. More from carrots than sticks. Just saying.

Carrots are orange - I hope you aren't dehumanising Trump.
Such actions are terrible, especially when you could just invade a sovereign nation for sugar, force its queen to abdicate, then hold a vote to join you that the local population weren't allowed to take part in. I suppose people could also invade Mexican held land and complain about people speaking Spanish, but I tend to avoid racism, so I won't.
Just saying

Ireland was invaded so their position is understandable, but Scotland begged to be in a union with England after their attempt to invade and subjugate a foreign country that wasn't Hawaii went sour. The poison dwarf's great plan is to live on North sea oil cash and toss their new independence over to the EU, one being stupid because oil prices vary and their grand plan won't last more than ten years or so anyway when the oil runs out, the other being equally stupid because you can't fight for independence with the argument you want to surrender it as soon as you get it, if the EU let them join.
All this at a time when even the Saudis are realising oil based economies are about to crash in epic fashion.
Frankly, the whole thing sounds fishy so I feel safe in suggesting Sturgeon is an idiot.

However, I have no objection to a second Scottish referendum as them leaving the UK would be a great move for England and the Pound would shoot up in value, that being really good for my wallet.

Fred wrote:

klsallee wrote:

After all the Irish and the colonies got tired of the English. The Scots seem to be moving in that direction, and the Welsh are getting an inkling for the same. If you want to people in a union maybe start by not dehumanizing their leaders. More from carrots than sticks. Just saying.

Carrots are orange - I hope you aren't dehumanising Trump.
Such actions are terrible, especially when you could just invade a sovereign nation for sugar, force its queen to abdicate, then hold a vote to join you that the local population weren't allowed to take part in. I suppose people could also invade Mexican held land and complain about people speaking Spanish, but I tend to avoid racism, so I won't.
Just saying

..... the other being equally stupid because you can't fight for independence with the argument you want to surrender it as soon as you get it, if the EU let them join.....Saudis are realising oil based economies are about to crash in epic fashion...... no objection to a second Scottish referendum as them leaving the UK would be a great move for England and the Pound would shoot up in value, that being really good for my wallet.

Good points there.  Carrots have rights too as do other vegetables. Vote carrot!  ....well, no, not really.

I think  the dwarf plans to keep monetary union with Sterling or worse, with the Euro.   

I don't see how an independent country can fully control its economy if it doesn't have control of its currency.  That's what the EU does and look at Greece. 

Like the rest of the UK will care about their economy  when manipulating Sterling interest rates?!  It'd be her problem as the UK economy accelerates.   Sturgeon's ideas won't work and she'll have the bitterness of history on her for destroying the UK. 

Then imagine people trying to get over Hadrian's wall to get to a larger economy once the subsidy of £2K/head is gone.   A somewhat similar example might be Dominican Republic and Haiti - GDP/capita $8K and $1K respectively.

Saudi is another thing.  Their changes are think are more aimed at  stopping internal dissent.  But it's true the sale of Aramco raises money.  After years of economically living it up, it's payback time.   Theocracy cannot continue.  Iran is the same.

One thing that's interesting is the discussion is less about Brexit and more about the break up of the UK. I hope Boris takes the opportunity to stop the dwarf in her tracks and shut her down.  She gets far too much airplay creating an atmosphere of "fear".

Fred wrote:

I'm most offended by your Shrek insult; he's far too nice to be compared to a politician. Are you anti-green and what has that poor onion like ogre ever done to you?  As Kermit famously noted, It's not easy being green.

It's true. I shouldn't have said that about Shrek.  Fundamentally as a character he's OK and of course finds love at the end with Princess Fiona.   More of a traditional story that.   Everyone likes a happy ending.

Unlike inter-species relations between Miss Piggy and Kermit.  My own feeling is that it's not going to work.  Miss Piggy is clearly unstable and needs help and Kermit likes to play the victim.  Maybe they should evaluate if they should be together.

Hmmm......

fluffy2560 wrote:

Unlike inter-species relations between Miss Piggy and Kermit.  My own feeling is that it's not going to work.  Miss Piggy is clearly unstable and needs help and Kermit likes to play the victim.  Maybe they should evaluate if they should be together.

Hmmm......

That should be a film.
Boris can play Miss Piggy, and the poison dwarf can take the role of Kermit. . They could call the place the Unknighted Queendom.

Fred wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Unlike inter-species relations between Miss Piggy and Kermit.  My own feeling is that it's not going to work.  Miss Piggy is clearly unstable and needs help and Kermit likes to play the victim.  Maybe they should evaluate if they should be together.

Hmmm......

That should be a film.
Boris can play Miss Piggy, and the poison dwarf can take the role of Kermit. . They could call the place the Unknighted Queendom.

Unlike the dwarf, Kermit has entertainment talent. 

Boris I think could do well in Panto...but only if it's in the best possible taste.

To the actual point of the thread, but perhaps a little expanded ..

The LibDems were open in rejecting democracy and were rightly punished, their arrogant leader getting a proper slap at the ballot box.

Labour have a dimwitted coward that refused to state his position on the only real point of the election because he knew he couldn't, add the far left agenda they came up with, and that cost the Labour party a spanking. Corbyn is so stuck in his own mind, he still thinks he's right and can't even resign properly. The far left of the party are too idiotic to see anything but marxist ideals so are blaming the press for their failure, totally rejecting the thought they got everything wrong. It's a bit sad and pathetic really.

Johnson is an oaf, a baboon, a nut job, but he came over as powerful, decisive, and willing to do whatever is needed (sacking a bunch of MPs was a good move politically, even if it was a risk). That and pretending to be a man of the people made him a man of the people, and his majority will keep him there for the next ten years until a new "Tarzan" traitor comes along and pulls him down.

As for Brexit, the UK's traitors that were working for the EU's interests are all silenced or politically castrated, so Boris can renegotiate and the EU will have to take him seriously now their fifth column have been neutered.

That is likely to good post Brexit news for expats as their interests are more likely to be served. Even the most stroppy of EU nations (Sorry, France, but that's your politicians) are unlikely to sacrifice their own expat population and trade interests within the UK in a stupid point scoring game that will hurt British expats in other EU countries ... for the moment.

By "for the moment", I mean until the EU breakup at some point in the next 10 years.
The UK put a lot of cash into the EU and the loss will hit Germany and France the hardest as they'll end up paying the most of the loss. The right wing of both countries are powerful for a number if reasons that are unimportant as far as this thread is concerned, but mean there's a lot of political pressure in those two countries to pull out of the EU. These movements aren't powerful enough to seriously demand much at the moment, but Boris didn't have a massive majority last Wednesday.

Fred wrote:

......

Labour have a dimwitted coward that refused to state his position on the only real point of the election because he knew he couldn't, add the far left agenda they came up with, and that cost the Labour party a spanking. Corbyn is so stuck in his own mind, he still thinks he's right and can't even resign properly. The far left of the party are too idiotic to see anything but marxist ideals so are blaming the press for their failure, totally rejecting the thought they got everything wrong. It's a bit sad and pathetic really...

So much in your post to agree with there so I'll cherry pick....

I wouldn't use that turn of phrase but I am amazed how utterly deluded the leadership and grandees of the Labour Party are.  It's collective dementia  (sorry, dementia suffers).   This morning, the Labour party was saying it won the argument even if they lost the election.  That's not even politically motivated weasel words, it's ridiculous.   

But it's obvious, Corbyn's team was verging on the lunatics taking over the asylum.   I mean, Diane Abbott as Foreign Secretary? John McDonnell as Chancellor?  Corbyn as PM.  BoJo and Co must have been laughing all the way to the ballot box.

Anyway, good news is that Gove has said there will not be a second Scottish referendum so that's looking like consensus for Bojo's cabinet. So the PD (Poison Dwarf) has no wind in her sails. 

Her only option is through the courts.  I looked up the various Acts and the UK Parliament has reserved  powers over the Union.  There's no way she has any option to legally do it regardless of what she thinks is her mandate. 

She could do an indicative vote on her own but the UK government isn't going to agree to anything further what with Brexit looming.    So BoJo will have his 5 year Parliament backed by his stunning majority, Brexit will happen and PD will have to just live with it.    In 5 years time, if Brexit is a stunning success, then PD will have been proved wrong and that'll be the end of it.

I believe Brexit will be a success for the UK, mostly because the EU are megashafted and they know it. They have to negotiate properly now their fifth column has been destroyed, but they also have to watch out for their own internal issues, that including something like 60% of Europeans not trusting them.
This could very easily destroy the whole corrupt institution, and they know it. The EU's job now is to save face, not try to interfere and stop Brexit as they were doing.

Fred wrote:

......

Labour have a dimwitted coward that refused to state his position on the only real point of the election because he knew he couldn't, add the far left agenda they came up with, and that cost the Labour party a spanking. Corbyn is so stuck in his own mind, he still thinks he's right and can't even resign properly. The far left of the party are too idiotic to see anything but marxist ideals so are blaming the press for their failure, totally rejecting the thought they got everything wrong. It's a bit sad and pathetic really...

So much in your post to agree with there so I'll cherry pick....

I wouldn't use that turn of phrase but I am amazed how utterly deluded the leadership and grandees of the Labour Party are.  It's collective dementia  (sorry, dementia suffers).   This morning, the Labour party was saying it won the argument even if they lost the election.  That's not even politically motivated weasel words, it's ridiculous.   

But it's obvious, Corbyn's team was verging on the lunatics taking over the asylum.   I mean, Diane Abbott as Foreign Secretary? John McDonnell as Chancellor?  Corbyn as PM.  BoJo and Co must have been laughing all the way to the ballot box.

Anyway, good news is that Gove has said there will not be a second Scottish referendum so that's looking like consensus for Bojo's cabinet. So the PD (Poison Dwarf) has no wind in her sails. 

Her only option is through the courts.  I looked up the various Acts and the UK Parliament has reserved  powers over the Union.  There's no way she has any option to legally do it regardless of what she thinks is her mandate. 

She could do an indicative vote on her own but the UK government isn't going to agree to anything further what with Brexit looming.    So BoJo will have his 5 year Parliament backed by his stunning majority, Brexit will happen and PD will have to just live with it.    In 5 years time, if Brexit is a stunning success, then PD will have been proved wrong and that'll be the end of it.

Fred wrote:

I believe Brexit will be a success for the UK, mostly because the EU are megashafted and they know it. They have to negotiate properly now their fifth column has been destroyed, but they also have to watch out for their own internal issues, that including something like 60% of Europeans not trusting them.
This could very easily destroy the whole corrupt institution, and they know it. The EU's job now is to save face, not try to interfere and stop Brexit as they were doing.

Much to agree with...

I think there are divisions everywhere not least Poland and Hungary.   Next stop, the break up of NATO.  Thank you Turkey for precipitating that one. 

Maybe it takes Brexit to get EU reform going internally.  In some ways there's a sense of relief that we know Brexit will happen and we can all get some certainty even if it's not we all wanted.  At least the breakup of the UK has been nobbled for the moment.

In a wider view,  Trump and Putin (Trump's handler) must be laughing all the way to wherever we're going (only they seem to know). 

I'm thinking Hungary will start making noises to leave some European institutions.  OV needs the money from the EU so he'll pick his fights carefully.  He's already testing the waters with leaving Eurovision under a pretext.    Maybe Council of Europe next?

Putin must be holding massive parties every couple of weeks in the big K.
Assuming chaos is the goal, his Trump puppet is doing a fantastic job and the EU breakup is nothing sort of good news. Turkey buying their SAM system and Trump shafting the Kurds is sugar upon sugar.
Of course, Mr P is doing far more, including some naughty bits in SE Asia, probably designed to weaken US influence, thus the potential stranglehold on Chinese oils supplies moving through the region.
The Chinese are doing a wonderful job with their leadership of BRICS and their belt and road soft invasion of so many countries.

Fred and Fluffy.

Totally agree with your summations/comments.  One thing to add, I was in Holland yesterday and read in the Dutch press that Unilever (a Dutch multi) announced the day after the election that they would be closing their Ben & Jerry's production site in the Netherlands and it would be moving to the UK.

Cynic

Cynic wrote:

Fred and Fluffy.

Totally agree with your summations/comments.  One thing to add, I was in Holland yesterday and read in the Dutch press that Unilever (a Dutch multi) announced the day after the election that they would be closing their Ben & Jerry's production site in the Netherlands and it would be moving to the UK.

Cynic

Woo-Hoo!  Ben and Jerry....Bj....BoJo.....

I dunno if that's a sign of the times or not. Perhaps a vote of confidence or just expeditious.   

Maybe time for a rant....


They already took production of HP Sauce over to NL (OK, that's Heinz, not Unilever, but just saying).   What's next?  Pork Pies made in Poland?  Cumberland Sausages from Spain?  Stilton from Sweden?

Next it'll be Marmite and that's when we know it's the end of civilisation as we know it.  Never mind the minutes to midnight on the Doomsday Clock, we've got to be thinking about minutes to midnight on the Marmite clock.   

Any Marmite aficionado knows that pukka British Marmite is the best there is.   Anything else is fakery, even heresy. 

Rant over....

Fred wrote:

Putin must be holding massive parties every couple of weeks in the big K.
Assuming chaos is the goal, his Trump puppet is doing a fantastic job and the EU breakup is nothing sort of good news. Turkey buying their SAM system and Trump shafting the Kurds is sugar upon sugar.
Of course, Mr P is doing far more, including some naughty bits in SE Asia, probably designed to weaken US influence, thus the potential stranglehold on Chinese oils supplies moving through the region.
The Chinese are doing a wonderful job with their leadership of BRICS and their belt and road soft invasion of so many countries.

Putin is looking like the master in geopolitics.

His poodle Trump clearly thinks it's all a deal but that's so simplistic and amateurish.  Trump thinks his behaviour is rational but he's so outgunned by Putin's convenient nationalist driven duplicity.  Putin has the upper hand for sure. 

It's quite incredible what Putin has managed to do...here's the first pass list I thought of:

Divide NATO by encouraging Turkey
Invade Syria
Invade Crimea
Launch a chemical weapons attack on a NATO country
Stood back while the Chinese build bases in the South China Sea and the USA is impotent
Shifted quite a bit of blame for just about everything onto Trump
Create a sub-poodles proxies in Hungary and Poland

Anyway, BoJo I read is trying to get getting the Queens Speech read next week.   Maybe by the new year we'll see some serious post-Brexit proposals.  Merkel was saying end of 2020 won't be long enough to conclude negotiations.  Seems to me to be a 5-10 year negotiation period.  So long as the current-EU rights continue in the interim, it'll be good but perhaps that's the most optimistic position.

I can't blame China for building their bases.
Take a look at where China gets its oil from, note the route most of it takes between supplier and Chinese ports, take a look at the gifts the US to nations with the ability to choke those supplies then, as a last point, look where the newish US airbase is in the North of Australia.
China needs those bases in case someone tries to choke their oil supplies, just as happened to Japan in 41.

Fred wrote:

I can't blame China for building their bases.
Take a look at where China gets its oil from, note the route most of it takes between supplier and Chinese ports, take a look at the gifts the US to nations with the ability to choke those supplies then, as a last point, look where the newish US airbase is in the North of Australia.
China needs those bases in case someone tries to choke their oil supplies, just as happened to Japan in 41.

Looks more like an invasion of islands they have no sovereignty over and possibly an environmental problem - all that dredging.  I think China has the muscle to get oil from elsewhere, including Russia. USA has possessions and friends in the region - like bases in Japan, Guam etc and has neglected them for a long time.

USA has had a base for some years in Australia.  But it's certainly been boosted by China's sudden expansion.  There's also The Philippines.  I expect the USA will return there but it's all bluster.   The USA has ignored much of that region and I cannot see Trump being in any way an opposing force as he's happy to be stabbed in the back by duplicitous people with "less morals". 

The BRI (Belt-Road-Initiative) will make a big difference to Taiwan recognition and Taiwan is USA's ally with a mutual protect clause.   Solomons I think recently "derecognised" Taiwan in favour of money from China.  Looks like Micronesia will go somewhat the same way despite being in a compact with the US.

In other matters, it looks like the Remain campaign is finished and will become the Re-join campaign.  Boris will get the legislation read and adopted before Xmas.  Brexit will inevitably happen and there's no more route to opposition/discussion.  Fingers crossed we keep all our rights and hopefully the EU agrees reciprocity.  People have got used to walking in and out between countries and having rights at an EU level.  Might end up though with Pole-xit and Hu-exit the way things are going.

Update on Polexit:

Poland may have to leave EU

I can see the same discussion happening here soon enough - HU vetos EU funding linked to rule of law

In other news, I noted there's no visa requirement for UK citizens post-Brexit for up to 11 months. Post-transition, if visas are introduced, then reciprocal basis will apply (i.e. if HU citizens need visas, UK citizens will need Schengen visas). 

Anyone coming into Schengen from the UK when ETIAS is implemented can only come in 90 days in 180 days without applying for more formal paperwork based registration.  Presumably more than 90 days in 180 days needs financial proof of self-sufficiency, job etc. Just guessing.

Previously EU treaty rights gave 90 days with no other justification paperwork requirements. only the act of registration.

No other news on EHIC in either direction but transition period means nothing will change in the short term.

The EU has to find a reason to dump poland as they take pretty much all of the UK's contribution. If it was truly for humanitarian or whatever reasons, other countries would have been booted by now.

Fred wrote:

The EU has to find a reason to dump poland as they take pretty much all of the UK's contribution. If it was truly for humanitarian or whatever reasons, other countries would have been booted by now.

EU funds aren't used for humanitarian reasons, they are used for cohesion.  For example, building roads between capitals to ensure free and easier movement or tourism schemes.   There should be no direct budget support for EU countries.  They just get grants redistribution fr contributions.  What it means is that Germany and France will be taking up the slack.   They ain't gonna like that!

But you are right about Poland - EU Net Contributors/Recipients. 

As of 2017, UK is the 2nd biggest contributor (EUR ~7.5 billion) after Germany's EUR ~13 billion.

Big shortfall for the EU.

I listened to the Queen's Speech this afternoon.  It's a bit thin on scope and detail!

Orban goes to the UK to meet BoJo...

As reported from the FT today Tuesday 7th January 2020....Boris Johnson adviser under fire for praise of Hungary's Viktor Orban by George Parker, Political Editor

A senior Downing Street adviser in the run-up to the election was accused by Labour on Monday night of making “despicable” comments after he said Boris Johnson wanted to forge a “special relationship” with Viktor Orban, Hungary's authoritarian prime minister.

Tim Montgomerie, Mr Johnson's social justice adviser until last month's election, praised Hungary's “interesting early thinking” on “the limits of liberalism” and suggested the two prime ministers shared a populist agenda.

Mr Orban has been criticised by other EU leaders for undermining his country's courts and media and for criticising minorities. He has referred to “Muslim invaders”, called migrants “poison” and been accused of anti-Semitism.

But Mr Montgomerie, a former journalist brought into Downing Street in September, suggested Mr Orban was tapping into the same popular mood identified by Mr Johnson, Donald Trump and Brexit party leader Nigel Farage.

“Budapest and Hungary have been home, I think, for an awful lot of interesting early thinking on the limits of liberalism,” Mr Montgomerie said at an event in Budapest last month.

“I think it's still consistent with traditional conservatism, I think we're still the party that believes in the individual, but it's a greater idea of individualism.

“It's an idea of the individual where the individual prospers with good public services, strong family, strong community, a nation that sees them as the priority rather than perhaps an immigrant from abroad.”

Mr Montgomerie said that Mr Orban and his rightwing Fidesz party “have stated that the nation matters and that globalisation is often a threat to that”.

He added: “Why are people voting for Boris and Viktor and Nigel [Farage] and Donald? Those questions aren't asked enough. And so whatever populism is, it isn't really about any of the people on the stage, it is about long-term trends in economics and culture that are changing how people align themselves.”

Mr Montgomerie declined to comment, but last night Mr Johnson's spokesman said the former newspaper columnist had not returned to his special adviser role since the election.

A government spokesperson said: “All special advisers are expected to comply with the special adviser code. During the election all special advisers resigned their positions. Tim Montgomerie has not currently returned to his position following the election.”

Mr Johnson's team have not ruled out the possibility that Mr Montgomerie might resume some kind of advisory role, but his comments were condemned by Labour last night.

Jon Trickett, shadow cabinet office minister, said: “These comments from one of Boris Johnson's senior advisers are despicable.

“Cosying up to a government which peddles anti-Semitic and Islamophobic rhetoric, attacks migrants and refugees and undermines judicial and media independence is unacceptable.”

Meanwhile, Mr Montgomerie also claimed that UK-EU trade talks over the next 12 months would leave Britain closely aligned to Brussels rules and regulations, against the wishes of Tory Eurosceptics.

Conceding that the issue was above his pay grade, he said: “I think there will be a large degree of alignment in economic sectors, and I think some Eurosceptics will be disappointed by that in the treaty that emerges from the next few months of negotiations.”

And in other news....

I still prefer Britex but nobody liked it

You could have Germex but it sounds like a disinfectant.

Fred wrote:

You could have Germex but it sounds like a disinfectant.

Best one is AdiEU but Quitaly isn't bad either.

I'm wondering if Iran will cause BoJo to delay Brexit?

The Dutch already have Nexit; causing some concerns.

Cynic wrote:

The Dutch already have Nexit; causing some concerns.

Care to explain a bit more?

fluffy2560 wrote:

Fred wrote:

You could have Germex but it sounds like a disinfectant.

Best one is AdiEU but Quitaly isn't bad either.

I'm wondering if Iran will cause BoJo to delay Brexit?

It won't make a scrap of difference, even if the US starts a war. In that event, the US will dangle a sweet trade deal in front of Boris as a bribe to get the UK into an exceptionally stupid coalition, but Boris would have to be stupid (or bent and greedy) to do a Blair.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Cynic wrote:

The Dutch already have Nexit; causing some concerns.

Care to explain a bit more?

Pro and anti-EU runs close to 50/50 so it wouldn't take that much to tip them over the Nexit line.

Fred wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Cynic wrote:

The Dutch already have Nexit; causing some concerns.

Care to explain a bit more?

Pro and anti-EU runs close to 50/50 so it wouldn't take that much to tip them over the Nexit line.

That about sums it up; the Dutch anti-EU party (VVD) are the single biggest political group in the Dutch parliament; there are 2 years till the next election and the consensus is that immigration and asylum seekers aren't making Rutte's task of getting a 4th Labour coalition any easier.

Cynic wrote:

and the consensus is that immigration and asylum seekers aren't making Rutte's task of getting a 4th Labour coalition any easier.

Sudden mass immigration is a very big problem and serves to damage any country it happens to. That doesn't mean the immigrants are bad people, but the level of suspicion/ill feeling, eventually leading to xenophobia, causes massive problems for politicians and is a great excuse for the extreme right to gain political power.

Fred wrote:

Cynic wrote:

and the consensus is that immigration and asylum seekers aren't making Rutte's task of getting a 4th Labour coalition any easier.

Sudden mass immigration is a very big problem and serves to damage any country it happens to. That doesn't mean the immigrants are bad people, but the level of suspicion/ill feeling, eventually leading to xenophobia, causes massive problems for politicians and is a great excuse for the extreme right to gain political power.

There have always been migrants. 

But if they are a refugees or economic migrants, it's a short step to call them scapegoats.  But we've seen all this before - in the 1930s.   I cannot quite believe people have forgotten their history.  I saw a news report about Russian people falling over themselves to praise Stalin.  Another mass murderer rehabilitated!  Who next?  I'm not invoking Godwin's Law.

Cynic wrote:

Fred wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Care to explain a bit more?

Pro and anti-EU runs close to 50/50 so it wouldn't take that much to tip them over the Nexit line.

That about sums it up; the Dutch anti-EU party (VVD) are the single biggest political group in the Dutch parliament; there are 2 years till the next election and the consensus is that immigration and asylum seekers aren't making Rutte's task of getting a 4th Labour coalition any easier.

Hmmm....the Dutch are renowned for their tolerance but not sure which direction that's going. I cannot see NL leaving the EU.  It'll mean borders going up with Germany etc.  Couple of generations and no-one can tell the refugees or migrants from the locals.

Look at the Turkish in Germany - maybe not the first generation but the second are pretty much locals for sure.   Makes you wonder about Merkel inviting a million or so refugees in.  Either a work of genius or the mistake of the century.   She's increased her pool of available workers.  Here in HU, there's a shortage of workers as they don't want any more people for political reasons (they sell the xenophobia as "protecting" HU culture).  So despite all that, all they've really done is limit the economy and bred a base of ignorant bigots.

Fred wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Fred wrote:

You could have Germex but it sounds like a disinfectant.

Best one is AdiEU but Quitaly isn't bad either.

I'm wondering if Iran will cause BoJo to delay Brexit?

It won't make a scrap of difference, even if the US starts a war. In that event, the US will dangle a sweet trade deal in front of Boris as a bribe to get the UK into an exceptionally stupid coalition, but Boris would have to be stupid (or bent and greedy) to do a Blair.

He's definitely not stupid.  Bent and greedy, quite possibly.  Certainly elements of Trump in BJ's thinking.   

Iran isn't in a good position to take on the USA. They'll get blown up but it'll turn into another Iraq or Syria mess. If I was Tehran, I'd be thinking of inviting in a contingent Russians to set up missile defences.  Then the USA would not dare attack for fear of poking Trump's handler Vlad.  It's so messed up I am wondering if Trump actually killed the Iranian guy on Putin's orders.

Who actually ordered the murder was also on my mind.

This is a great chance for Russia and China, and they aren't sitting back and wasting it.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/after-u … ate-at-un/

It could well result in US troops being kicked out of Iraq, Trump imposing sanctions, and Russia filling the gap.
Putin must be laughing his socks off.

Fred wrote:

Who actually ordered the murder was also on my mind.

This is a great chance for Russia and China, and they aren't sitting back and wasting it.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/after-u … ate-at-un/

It could well result in US troops being kicked out of Iraq, Trump imposing sanctions, and Russia filling the gap.  Putin must be laughing his socks off.

DT must be happy too because he's managed to help out Vlad.  Not sure what the Chinese will get out of the Iran situation.  Maybe Vlad and the Chinese have an agreement not to tread on each others toes elsewhere - USA has been ignoring the Pacific for sometime and significant nations out that way are going China instead of US ally Taiwan.

Iran's retribution so far was nothing much.  Some missiles landing on a very large base and doing no obvious damage (so far reported this morning).  So DT has got off lightly, doesn't have to respond, Iran has saved face and said their proportional response is over. 

I think this now going to fizzle out but the plane crash this morning in Tehran is somewhat strange.  Speculation on the radio is that someone shot it down because it was taking off in a particular direction (same as the missiles).