Catalan referendum

Following it live on SKY News nothing has been said that area is unsafe, but things can change. I would recommend that people avoid going out and follow the news for updates.

SimCityAT wrote:

Following it live on SKY News nothing has been said that area is unsafe, but things can change. I would recommend that people avoid going out and follow the news for updates.

News at this hour has 465 people injured.  Suffice it to say, it hasn't been the most peaceful of days.

Sympathies with the Catalonians...they just want the right to determine their own destiny...which is being denied by the central government in Madrid.

The show of force is completely unjustified and can and will only WORSEN  the situation....nothing can be solved by violence only by dialogue.

A compromise must prevail or if the vote is YES an independent Catalonia must be recognised in the event of a majority vote for independence.

The central government of Madrid does not want to lose the rich area of Catalonia.

Agree. As independence movements are also present in other areas of the EU, it seems to me that the EU should have some sort of guidelines as to when an independence movement is recognized, when a referendum may occur, independence recognized, and the possibility of a referendum to reunite a state, when that state is part of the EU. Perhaps member states could debate this.

The next 48 hours are going to be very interesting indeed, all depending on the outcome of the vote. 

There was so much disruption to the vote and result is unlikely to be accurate but the attempt to kill it is likely to harden opinion against the central government and pictures of old women with baton injuries supposedly delivered by cops is not going to o much for unity.
I wonder if there is anyone on the ground out there with first hand information as to the general level of safety in the area.

As I understand it, the Constitution of Spain does not permit referendi. Thus the action was illegal. 

Maybe a petition showing peoples views would have been the legal choice,  and then an attempt to alter the Constitution.

In Spain when the police say move, one must move. 

It is not helpful to interpret what is happening in Catalonia with what would/might happen in a completely different jurisdiction (UK for example)

The videos of the cops in action were pretty clear and that behaviour can only be negative. The stuff the BBC showed was notable violence including dragging a young woman by the hair and literally throwing non violent downstairs.
The question on this thread is more about violence from any quarter that could be aimed at expats. Are the cops likely to get as violent with anyone else, even if the expat or local is just in the wrong place at the wrong time but completely innocent?

Usually the police officers in Spain  are not violent. What you saw in the news was a response to rioting and disobedience. The constitution of Spain allows for referendum, but only with the authority of the central government. The one that happened in Cataluña was deemed unconstitutional by the Constitutional Court and the Govern in Cataluña decided to go ahead anyway against the judgment of the court.

To answer your main question, law enforcement  in Spain will not cause any problems for law abiding citizens and residents.

The intention of this thread is to look at possible issues for expats, not cause a bun fight.
There was clearly violence, some videos suggesting on both sides, but is that violence likely to impact the expat community?

I have been very happy living in Spain for 30 years,  within the law of Spain. 

Working as a volunteer with the National police for 20 years,  I have seen a lot more than the average expat how the police treat people, including  victims of crime, persons who have been arrested, witnesses etc.   

As a former UK London police officer, I know that the police in Spain are not required to operate under the same rules as the police in the UK. 

The way in which ‘resisting arrest’ or 'refusing to comply with a police direction' etc- are dealt  with is much more robust in Spain than in UK, where one can more or less get away with minor assaults on police, using abusive language,  ‘forthrightly’ arguing about one’s rights, etc.  In Spain such behaviour is not normally excused.

If I had the power I would change some of the rules in Spain, however, even though I cannot, I am happy to live here rather than in the UK where crime levels are considerable higher.   I know we living  here are much less likely to be the victim of crime, so the police are in the main getting it right !

tartanjim wrote:

Why 'under review' along with others?
.

Looking at one of your other posts (now being reviewed) it was probably a political statement.
This was was intended to discuss expat safety, not who does or does not support any given faction or political goal.

Yes.... but it was not really a political statement and surely you cannot hide the severity of what has happened to innocent civilians irrespective of which area they are from....as I have already said I love all of Spain and have had property there...but the sheer brutality  and ex pats views in this tragedy should be not be ignored or made light of ....'like a bun fight' when rubber bullets and batons were used even against pensioners....it was disgusting and my feelings would be the same and would apply to any government who authorised this brutal action.

I love all people of EVERY Nationality and respect their creed and religion and through ex pat I have made many friends and tried to help by offering advice....I am certainly not ANTI anyone and just wish everyone could live in harmony.

There was clear violence here but that IS NOT the subject in hand, nor is the political situation except any possible danger to expats who live in the area.
Is there a nationalist movement that is anti expat or will the government restrict expats in that area in any way?
Is the violence likely to spill over, leaving expats in danger or was this a one off event that'll settle down?

Neural opinions are fine but political support for either side is off topic on this thread and out of bounds on this forum.

Last time..

This thread is intended to explore safety issues for expats - nothing else, and definitely not politics.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41479048

Auntie beeb is now talking about a strike that has disabled a lot of services in the region.
Does anyone know the underlying feelings and is there a likelihood of further violence or just a lot of talk and disruption to services?

Fred wrote:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41479048

Auntie beeb is now talking about a strike that has disabled a lot of services in the region.
Does anyone know the underlying feelings and is there a likelihood of further violence or just a lot of talk and disruption to services?

From what was said on Sky News just now. There is a handful of local police in the area, with no state police to be seen. Organisers are stressing that they were a peaceful movement. The strike is a simple protest against the violence used by the police yesterday.

So far there have been no reports of violence and is very unlikely to be any as it is a peaceful protest.

Large numbers of Catalans observed a general strike on Tuesday to condemn police violence at a banned weekend referendum on independence, as Madrid comes under growing international pressure to resolve its worst political crisis in decades.

Authorities report that 47 roads have been blocked
Traffic queues on main highways stretch up to 10km
Huge demo in front of Popular Party headquarters in Barcelona

A crowd several thousand strong gathered in front of the Popular Party headquarters in Barcelona chanting "Occupiers Out!". Similar protests took place outside Cuidadanos party offices in the region.

Public transport services were disrupted as well as port operations, after unions called for the stoppage to "vigorously condemn" the police response to the poll, in which Catalonia's leader said 90 percent of voters backed independence from Spain.

Traffic was cut along some of the main highways in the region, including the toll route AP-7 as people took to the streets to stage demonstrations.

https://www.thelocal.es/20171003/genera … -catalonia

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41493014

Catalonia will declare independence from Spain in a matter of days, the leader of the autonomous region has told the BBC.
In his first interview since Sunday's referendum, Carles Puigdemont said his government would "act at the end of this week or the beginning of next".

This raises more questions, first the question of a possible government crackdown that could restrict movement in the area, the next being general violence (maybe rioting) between the side, the last being a possibility of a terrorist style independence struggle as we saw in Ireland and the Basque region.

Then come immigration and how the Spanish government reacts to foreigners in the area along with possible nationalist views from the independence side. ETA were unhappy with foreigners.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … rance.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/1986/08/06/world … gners.html