Is This Insane????

Has anyone married to a Vietnamese women with whom they had a child had the women refuse to cooperate in getting the child a Certificate of Birth Abroad ( American Father) because she thought the father would steal the child. Mine has done just that. Granted I do not need her cooperation to get the certificate. But in order for her to get my social security survivors benefits when I die the child must apply for a passport. If it were me and I were the mom I would certainly apply for the passport. The irony ohs I gave her no flak when she applied for his VNese birth certificate, and now it is I who have lost the child, Of course, I could not remain in the same house with my son, because I may steal him. So it is not her that lost a son, but me.
  I trie to explain to her that it is similar to a birth certificate (BC)and you can not enter the USA with just a BC. Since 9/11 no one, no matter what their age can enter the USA w/o a passport. I had no desire nor any intensions of apply for a passport, and it take both parents to be present and apply for a child's passport.
Just curious if such crazy thinking is normal here. So now I return to America to never see the only child I ever fathered.

She's basically saying if I don't go, your son won't either. She's part of the package.

If her son got a US passport and she didn't, he'd be gone when he turns 18 and leaving her all alone in Vietnam.

What's your status with her?

Welcome to Vietnam mate.
That's how it goes.

It all looks too easy doesn't it.   Just throw $20 on the ground and they'll marry you.

It's like buying one of those shiny $5'll be grinning like a goat eating thistles for a while & then sooner or later it all turns to shit.

Chow down ole mate & get  used to the taste. 

She's now got the "holy grail" of hooks into you.  Emotional blackmail......

So tighten your seatbelt, get some cash and hang on tight.....Coz you gunna be in for a ride.

I have had the feeling that she indeed might be using the child as blackmail. I have found that this one at least is an enigma wrapped in a conundrum. Her reasons and intent have always seemed to be a moving target to me. But I will not allow the child to be her hook into me. So I am closing up shop here in VN and returning to America. The pain of it is that my lifelong dream has been to have a child of my own. I had set aside a college fund for him, and real estate in America. Like all parents I wanted a better life for him than I had. But I have sentenced him to to a life in a third world country that in most cases is 50 years or more behind the West. Where the government encourages everyone to get a university degree that will entitle them to get a job at McDonalds or as a receptionist at a hotel. Now my son will be able to get a degree and earn $500 a month, have access to non-potable water, a medical system from the dark ages.
The ironic thing is she feels I will steal the child and it is me who has had my child stolen from me. I have even tried to meet her half way and live in the same city here as here so I could have my son over to visit. She will not allow me to be near him. Of course, because I will steal the child. But thanks guys for the replies.

The future here looks bleak.  I've met guys in the same situation and they are slowly being sucked dry both financially & emotionally.

i suppose she will expect you to keep throwing cash , but NOT have any access to the child.  Eventually , whatever money you send will be used to support her family and her new VN boyfriend.  The child will get the crumbs left over.    That's how it usually goes.

Getting out of here is probably the best thing.   If she won't let you see the child ,,what's the point being here. 

Maybe once your gone she may have a rethink.  DONT SEND MONEY
See what happens then.   

Has the option of her going to the States been put on the table.   How did that go?

Send relatively small amounts to hold you ex's interest while you subtly hint that you have much more available (regardless whether that's true) and your best best defense is your good offense... subtly let her know that you are finally moving on; with another Vietnamese woman who is younger and hotter.. whether or not that's true... at all costs avoid being needy, showing weakness.. no woman respects that!

Moderated by Julien 7 years ago
Reason : I have removed an unpleasant part of the message

Please note.

Whilst the situation might well be a very common one in Vietnam, we only have one side of the story in this case and that means little idea of the whole situation.
That in mind, perhaps it would be best to avoid insulting anyone, even ladies you have never met.

Didn't you hash this out on another thread?

If as you said, you can get the CRBA (FS-240) without her, just get it.  Then you can give it to her and leave.  Even if she tosses it, he can get a new one without her consent when he is 18.  They do keep records.  Then he can get a US passport on his own and go to the US if he chooses or stay in Vietnam if that's what he wants.  If she wants him to sponsor her to go to the US, she will have to let him go first alone and then send for her using the regular channels.   However, she would have a lower priority than she would if you petitioned her. 

You never followed up on Phikachu's suggestion that her underlying motive may be that she wants that visa herself.  Have you ever offered her that option?  It takes about 2 years to get it, so no time like the present.  If she gets the visa, the kid comes along free.

I think she may be interested in immigration, but I have none. That was agreed upon before we married. My only selfish interest is to be with my son. I think it is only normal for a parent to want a better life for their child. So him having access to the USA and an education there would have been nice. But personally where he has his citizenship does not matter. I will be pushing up daisies. In reality it is better just to get out now. She is a massive controller. I have hired therapist from the USA to help her, but she refuses to speak to them. She refuses to present her photo ID if it is something I need or the child needs. I am not allowed to have friends, say hello to a child or pet a dog. I was not allowed to participate in the wedding or invite anyone. And yes I know I can get my sons birth abroad w/o her help. But how do I get access to my child? I can not be around him because she fears I will steal him. So what does it matter where his citizenship is. I think she is just a tad bit crazy. She will lose a lot. But I guess we all must make choices. She has said she will allow me to get his birth abroad and a passport and SSN 5 years from now. She feels at least then he will have known who his mom is before I steal him.

I always suspected that there was more than one side to your story.  Now I am sure.

Diazo wrote:

I think she may be interested in immigration, but I have none. That was agreed upon before we married. ............

Diazo wrote:

She is a massive controller. I have hired therapist from the USA to help her, but she refuses to speak to them. She refuses to present her photo ID if it is something I need or the child needs.............

Who wants to control who?  You dictated conditions to your marriage.  You hired a therapist, from the USA no less, for someone who does not want one.  That is a very hostile and controlling action.  We all have read about how things like drug treatment never work until the participant wants them to.

Diazo wrote:

I think she is just a tad bit crazy. She will lose a lot. But I guess we all must make choices. She has said she will allow me to get his birth abroad and a passport and SSN 5 years from now. She feels at least then he will have known who his mom is before I steal him.

I don't know about crazy because she has the right idea but she is a little bit early.  I would suggest 7 or more years old.  The critical period for language acquisition is between 5 and 7 but it is also the period for language loss.  That is, if he does not hear and speak Vietnamese from 5 onward, he will likely lose it.  Psychologists also say  that real memories only begin after 5, and those that seem to be from earlier are prompted by photos and stories heard from relatives.  If the boy went to the US without her at 5, he would almost surely loose his ability to speak and understand Vietnamese and really would not know his mom in any complete way.  It could be that her entire agenda, which she improperly did not tell you upfront, is to get both herself and the boy to the US.  I have a friend who is taking his wife and teen step-daughters to AU.  I know he really doesn't want to go, but he is doing it for the girls education.  A mother and son recently arrived in Hawaii and moved into the house next door to ours without the husband.  He owns a very successful business in VN making way more money in dollar terms than he could ever make here washing dishes.  They came so that the boy could go to high school here.  People make sacrifices.  Perhaps your sacrifice should be to bring your wife and child to the US.  By the way, you had better not tell her that as a widow and mother of US citizens there are ways that she can petition herself.

If you are as certain of your impending demise as you seem, remember that there is no practical way for him to avail himself of Social Security survivor's benefits without residing in the US and the benefits run out at 18 with some exceptions for college.  It stands to reason then, that his mom needs a visa.  If there is anyone who needs to compromise, it looks to me like it is you.

By the way, if you respond, I will likely read it but I have had my rather long winded say on this subject.  I'm out of this one.

   Thank goodness you nonsensical babel is finished. To suggest That I am a controller because I laid out prior to marriage to anyone that I had no intentions of being someones immigration sponsor, not did I have any desire to live in America. Seems rather far fetched that someone could be accused of being controlling when they do not yet even have a subject to control ( I was not even married). I suppose you would think she was controlling because she asked prior to marriage if I would be willing to pay her mother a monthly amount. I was not forced to go forward and marry her. I could have objected to the money. Same with her and my not sponsoring anyone for a visa. She could have said then you not the guy for me I will keep shopping. Perhaps you do not know what controlling behavior means.
  She said she wanted to see a therapist. We could find none in Vietnam. So I did the research and found her one in the USA via Skype. It was after the therapist was hired she refused to even introduce herself to him. Her excuse was he looked like a marriage counselor. How does hiring a therapist equate to hostile controlling action. You must be a real peace of work. The lady has been diagnosed as a perfectionist,, controlling behavior and OCD.  So in you view her husband should not pay for the help she needs or it becomes controlling. I imagine if you were an alcoholic and your wife insisted you either get help or she was leaving she would be a controller.
  You able about a child children speaking and your psychologist saying the silliness of memories...has what to do with what. The Us. Embassy disagrees with you by the way when you suggest 7 years old. They say get it as soon as possible.
  And your SS survivors  for surviving children also lacks knowledge. For the wife that is true. But I was speaking of my son.
  But your welcome to you opinion. To me I could never imagine getting a divorce over getting a child a Certificate of Birth Abroad.
  But thank goodness you have no more on your silly insight to share.
There boy is not going to the US at all. That is just her fear that I will steal him and take him to the US. I am not going to the US, my wife si not going to the US. I only wanted to get my sons birth right of citizenship. He could have gotten the passport and it be held by a relative. I can not get him into the USA w/o a passport.

There comes a point in life when if you feel everyone around you is being silly, taking a long look in a mirror might be the best thing to do. I personally think there's something off about you, and your wife is doing the right thing. If she is so crazy and you married her, what does that make you? Just go back to the US and leave your kid behind and spend the rest of your life blaming your "crazy ex".

I agree WillyBaldy. I was indeed insane an crazy to go forward with a marriage that the professionals said run away as fast as you can. Controlling behavior they say is very hard to change and understandably wo would want to give up such power. Yes, I should have known when I could have no say on the plans for the wedding and could invite no one that I was being foolish to proceed. Indeed, there were plenty of red flags before the marriage when she would sulk for 10 days at a time and I would lead with her to tell me what was wrong. Only after she came out of the sulking would I learn the reason: for example she wanted her planters wart dressed on her foot in the morning before work, even thought he doctor said do it before bed, which I did every night. Although she never asked me to dress it before work, and I would have had she asked, she sulked for ten days because I did not read her mind. Or the time she sulked for almost two weeks because she had a conversation with a Friend of mine, a female owner of the hotel we were staying in. This conversation was in Vietnamese, 3 floors below me. She would not tell me what was wrong, Then when she came out of it I learned that she felt the owner of the hotel offended her and I should have come to her defense. Yet I knew nothing about it. Yes, I agree there should have never been an expectation on my part to be able to set at the dinner table and talk to the one I love. In was ridiculous of me to think we could cook dinner together , a think I have always cherished with the one I love. She can not due so because she is unable to multitask. Why would one expect the mother of their child to follow the doctors orders when they told her her preeclampsia had moved to eclampsia and her life and the life of the child was in severe danger. Then you must stand helplessly by your wife hoping that your child is born alive. Then to learn he is but you wife has permanent organ damage. Why would a father want his child to have the immunizations that are recommend  for all infants around the world.Yet the mother refuses. I think I am a bit crazy indeed.
I was even crazy enough to school her on the risks of SIDS ( sudden Infant Death Syndrome) which has easily followed recommendation in order to reduce the risk of the death of my child. Everyone would think she were crazy if she followed those recommendation. But now, our child must have a pillow in bed, Our child must sleep next to mom and with blankets. Yes why would I expect the $10,000 I wired to her USD account for the IVF treatment and cost of delivery would be used for that. When the IVF was not needed and there was $8,000 remaining in the account why would I expect her not to steal it and give it to her mom. Yes, I am a bit crazy to trust the one I love. And I could go on for a long long time.
But yes, I have decided I was a blooming idiot  and have thrown in the towel and will leave my child behind and move on.
And oh by the way, just for the others that might travel down this wonderful path of marrying a young beautiful Asian bride and run into marital problems the therapist I hired for her wrote and said the following "Well what you described is not foreign to me. These are similar stories to all the Vietnamese patients I have had. I wish there were happier outcomes, But unfortunately Vietnamese women are not that open to therapy and have that suck it up cope attitude toward everything. Vietnamese men are not open to therapy either"
So, if you go down the same path I did and run into marital discord there is a good chance they will suggest, as did my wife, just suck it up and cope with it. Perhaps this is why the bars and coffee shops here are full of men coping with a bad family life. I tried the coping routine and try to stay away from the home as much as possible. But it did not work for me. In the West we lean more toward therapy and learn the tools required to communicate better, be aware of your partners needs
and come to a resolution that helps the family grow together. Coping in my experience simply drives people further and further apart until the end of the marriage comes. Perhaps this is why there are so many single moms here with small children. Maybe the coping does not work as well as they think it does here either.
\Thanks to everyone for their input and opinions on my life as well as my wife. It was quite instructive and helpful. After all that it why a started the post to have the dialogue.

Diazo, thanks for the more complete explanation. I guess you probably were handed a bad hand in this relationship. I just think that at one point in any relationship you need to draw a line in the sand and don't allow things to go too much against your beliefs and self respect. I probably would have left this woman way before you did, even though she must be very young and gorgeous ;-) Sadly, a child will probably suffer for this, that's the sadest part of this story. I still believe this is not a specific case related to Vietnamese women, any relationship can have these type of problems. I strongly believe in the old wisdom of knowing someone very, very well before you marry and, especially, before you have a child with someone.

It's always easy looking from the outside in,and having hindsight. As stated by numerous others, for your own sanity, leave and start a fresh life. Only someone who has been through the same situation can really give you the best answer.

Agree colinscope. Sure a great disappointment though. The wounds will heal in time though. Thanks

I remember when my brother split with his wife, he was a blitthering mess. Two years down the track he was a totally different man.

Diazo, I don't see that you've met her half way. She's been living with a foreigner, so her marriage chances to any Vietnamese is about 0.01%. Children are Vietnam's traditional social security. Who's going to take care of her when she gets old? And from a Vietnamese perspective: She was good enough to have a child with, why isn't she good enough to get a passport. And your answer is: I never had any intentions of taking her back to the U.S.. Well, for the child's sake, I hope he stays with his mother.

I hope he does as well. But it should be no surprise to her that I did not want to go back to the USA. Thus it was never my intention to marry anyone who had that desire. So I never misrepresented myself or my intentions. If that was her intentions, and I now think it was, they she was the one who got fooled. I am so old there is no way I was going to be able to my son settled in America. But I did want to give him every opportunity to have a good education and live where he wanted to when the time came.
  While I did not realize at the outset that children are these peoples Individual Retirement Plan, I do now. However, when I married my wife I put all my  properties in a Lady Bird Trust. So her future was pretty secure as was my sons, who I set aside his university fund. You arm chair quarterbacks that know little of the entire situation can set back and make all kinds of statements  about what theaters should and should not do. I find it quite amazing.
  The OP was in regards to the simple desire/responsibility of protecting are child's birth given right. I find it hard to imagine under any of your scenarios or any other reason why a parent would not take the responsibility entrusted to them and do what is best for the child. When she woke up and said lets go get his Vietnamese BC and citizenship I had no problem in doing my parental task. Likewise when it was time for him to get his immunizations I set about protecting him. While she refused to get the shots.
  But it is what it is. Here the foreign father has little rights in family court.  I am just glad to get rid of the lying money hungry soul. She has not uttered one true statement since we first met. And I fell for all her lies. My only regret is I brought a child into this third world society and it's barbaric way of living. There is little hope of them ever advancing into the new world.

  Would you also consider it not meeting your spouse half way if before you married one told the other they did not want to have children. Then after marriage one changes their mind or was deceiving from the outset and said they now wanted a child. Seems to me we all have the right and the responsibility before marriage to state our truthful desires. I took her at her word that she did not want to come to America and she did want to have a child. She was not required to meet me half way. We agreed on those issues before we married. Your position seems rather ridiculous to me.
  She would have had far more in one years worth of income upon my death than she will make in her lifetime and she has one of these worthless degrees they hand out here.
  And I do realize she is used goods now and no Vietnamese man would marry here. And no Westerner would stay with her controlling ways much longer after her first fit and she runs off for one third of the month. And she does that on a monthly basis. Left for a month on our wedding night because my friends wife asked her where she bought her purse. Yeah, I hope the all stay here in OZ.