Help in suggesting How to Sell Property

The bad news is, undeveloped rural property in Hungary does not sell in most places in the country.

If you have to sell this year, then you probably need to reduce the price. Maybe a lot. And I do mean --- a lot.

If this is the property:

https://www.expat.com/en/housing/europe … -life.html

Then I would say you are asking too much. Wood heat only. A really tiny building (35 sq m), 1.5 km from the main road, 1798m2 property (either too large to take care of for most people, or too small to build a larger house for others due to probably existing rural building regulations)... All-in-all, a real no-go for that price.

There is no problem in to build larger as been to local council over this. The Price other property are around at less but in kneed totall building upgraded and some have not got services connected. I can lower price a small amount but what I payed for it and asking price I will stanned to loss of 1.500mhuf. If can not sell at resonble price I would rather set fire to it rather then give it away!

marwood47 wrote:

If can not sell at resonble price I would rather set fire to it rather then give it away!

I truly wish you good luck and I hope you can at least sell at no loss.

But I have seen property near me, with nice but small houses, exist on the market for over a decade. I know of one person who died with their property on the market, and 5 years after their death, their relatives can still not sell it.

Sometimes we all make bad investments. If you need cash, better to sell at a loss then simply torch the place.

That is my humble opinion.

klsallee wrote:

marwood47 wrote:

If can not sell at resonble price I would rather set fire to it rather then give it away!

I truly wish you good luck and I hope you can at least sell at no loss.

But I have seen property near me, with nice but small houses, exist on the market for over a decade. I know of one person who died with their property on the market, and 5 years after their death, their relatives can still not sell it.

Sometimes we all make bad investments. If you need cash, better to sell at a loss then simply torch the place.

That is my humble opinion.

ould
OK thanks but I stand by settting fire to hit as I have invested hard cash and how many hours work untold whye shud giv it way

It is a cute little place however I too would say at over 5 million forints it is very expensive.
I know how it hurts to remodel and put nice touches and hard work into something and overinvest.
Did that with our S. Cal home, fixed it like a doll house, just perfect and by the time we finished fixing it to both enjoy and to sell we lost a good $30, to $50,000 by waiting. Still it was on the market for only 2 weeks before it sold, those glory days in real estate are gone.
Still made some bucks on it but that was hey day of pricing in S. Cal. More then doubled our investment on the house in just 9 years time.
Sadly we think our Budapest flat will also be a bit of a loss and we would be happy to just break even. This time we only fixed what was really needed to fix, new front door, water heater and not much else.
My best advice is to try and market this property to a UK market. Advertise in the UK papers and do some creative marketing.
It would make a lovely little vacation place for someone.
(

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

It is a cute little place however I too would say at over 5 million forints it is very expensive.
I know how it hurts to remodel and put nice touches and hard work into something and overinvest.
Did that with our S. Cal home, fixed it like a doll house, just perfect and by the time we finished fixing it to both enjoy and to sell we lost a good $30, to $50,000 by waiting. Still it was on the market for only 2 weeks before it sold, those glory days in real estate are gone.
Still made some bucks on it but that was hey day of pricing in S. Cal. More then doubled our investment on the house in just 9 years time.
Sadly we think our Budapest flat will also be a bit of a loss and we would be happy to just break even. This time we only fixed what was really needed to fix, new front door, water heater and not much else.
My best advice is to try and market this property to a UK market. Advertise in the UK papers and do some creative marketing.
It would make a lovely little vacation place for someone.
(

Yes for some one from UK would be thr best as I refuse to give it away

Yes, Perhaps an agent in the UK can help out too.
If all the papers for transfer of property are in order, throw in a few perks like furniture and fixtures to make it a easy weekend move in for someone from the UK.
I know when my MIL passed away in Hungary we never thought we would find a buyer for her place.
It was in Erd a owner built house, solid and strong but old fashioned.
Good heating system and a huge double size lot on the corner of the street. Only one neighbor on one side.
The house was not worth much after all but the land was worth something.
Took us about a year to find the right person to buy it.
This was 10 years ago, hard to say what people are looking for now and how high the prices may or may not go in the near future.
We drove by last year to look at the old house in Erd.
A middle aged couple had bought it for one of their elderly mothers to live in. They wanted to move her close to them from the countryside.
Allot of land for just one old lady. They have now divided the land in half and the empty side is up for sale. Not moving right now.
We sold the place for 18 million 10 years ago, not sure how much the land is worth now probably has not moved up in price very much since we sold it.
So there is a buyer out there for everyone just takes allot of time and luck to connect with them.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Yes, Perhaps an agent in the UK can help out too.
If all the papers for transfer of property are in order, throw in a few perks like furniture and fixtures to make it a easy weekend move in for someone from the UK.
I know when my MIL passed away in Hungary we never thought we would find a buyer for her place.
It was in Erd a owner built house, solid and strong but old fashioned.
Good heating system and a huge double size lot on the corner of the street. Only one neighbor on one side.
The house was not worth much after all but the land was worth something.
Took us about a year to find the right person to buy it.
This was 10 years ago, hard to say what people are looking for now and how high the prices may or may not go in the near future.
We drove by last year to look at the old house in Erd.
A middle aged couple had bought it for one of their elderly mothers to live in. They wanted to move her close to them from the countryside.
Allot of land for just one old lady. They have now divided the land in half and the empty side is up for sale. Not moving right now.
We sold the place for 18 million 10 years ago, not sure how much the land is worth now probably has not moved up in price very much since we sold it.
So there is a buyer out there for everyone just takes allot of time and luck to connect with them.

The problem now days no one whants the good life in growing food all year round but to go to Tesco.  s when local council tax is less than 4,000huf pa.I excpect no moore than e-one 12,000huf water charge 8.700huf 1m3 stove wood fuel 23.300huf yes it is 6kw but it,s moor than surfecent owing to high leval of insulation.  but i will not give it away

I think many people in the UK might be interested in a country cottage for holidays.
The exchange rate for the British Pound is good now I think and it is only a few hours flight time.
People from the US might not be able to pop over to HU as easily.
My girlfriend from the UK has a cottage in HU and seems many of her UK friends really enjoy it as well.
If the transfer of property is made easy, the place comes with a few leads for a property manager while the owner is out of HU. etc. It might just appeal to a city person in the UK who wants some peace and property in exotic Hungary.
Have to make it seem user friendly and ready for summer fun.
My in-laws loved growing their own foods, even raised a pig or two for sausage and really got into the country lifestyle when they retired.
Her second husband was from the countryside and knew all about everything from house building, drilling his own well, making his own rod iron fences trimming tress, cutting flowers and breeding new lines,he was something.
It got hard though when they got on to 80 years old and the place was far too much work for them to keep up.
They enjoyed doing everything themselves didn't do it to save money but more to keep active once they retired from their city jobs.
Have to find the right person who is welling to sweat some or willing to hire someone to do it for them.
I wish you luck, sadly many Hungarians don't have extra funds for a place far off, need to live closer to their jobs and older people usually already have a place of their own.
I am guessing selling it as an exotic cottage self contained with land is a good bet.
People like things easy and ready to move in, just get your agent to work the ready to enjoy the summer angle. Not a real estate agent myself but we did sell our own house in Cal. in just 2 weeks time. We did not hire an agent only a go between guy who knew what papers we needed to file etc. Basically we showed and prepped the house ourselves. Made sure it was squeaky clean, had the dog out of the house while showing it at set times, offered cool drinks to lookers. Just made everything look so cozy that they all wanted to buy. Turned out my neighbor living right behind me bought it, it was his 3rd house on the block. He knew how much we had fixed it up and we both were happy. We saved the 7% that a real estate agent would of asked for, just gave the guy who did the paperwork a flat rate of $3,000. That way we could afford to lower the price a slight bit less then others in the neighborhood plus our house was the cutest around.
We had brought my husband step-bro to Cal. from Hungary for 2 months at our expense to fix the house up before we sold it. He was a construction pro in HU, worked in Russia allot on big projects. He got to see the US for free plus we paid him a flat rate of $10. an hour for is work.
He did new diving board, new tile, new flooring, paint inside and out, wallpaper, new brick walls.
Like I said in the long run I think we spent a bit too much between his costs and all the work done, sometimes you are lucky to just break even. At least our neighbor got a good deal and we were free to move on to something new.

marwood47 wrote:

...... with agents for almost 3 years with out any intrested party,s. I must sell this Year due to health problems, I have all so placed advertsment on most Free Advertisment Pages ....

The situation in Austria is the same as Hungary.  People are just not as mobile as in the UK or USA. It took Mrs Fluffy and I three years to sell our house in Austria (it was empty most of that time apart from some visits). And our place was in a very desirable town and a scenic location.  There's no crazy rocketing property market here in Hungary and there are thousands of similar places available. 

We told the agents to stop trying to sell it.  We think they were blocking the sale by actually keeping the property unadvertised deliberately - nobbling competition on more saleable houses.  We checked regularly to see how prominent our house was in the agents windows and after about a month, it disappeared.  Obviously not shifting, so lower priority.  We then did it ourselves.

We advertised our house ourselves (in German, Hungarian and English) and eventually sold it after contact with some sort of mortgage broker to a couple of people from Kosovo who lived in one of the mortgage broker's houses.  This broker was a real pain so in the end I had to tell him to keep out of the negotiations. Once we were able to negotiate directly, everything went fine,   The Kosovars had a large extended family, all of whom wanted to live in the same house.  We were glad to get shot of the place and provide some "interesting" people on at least one of immediate neighbours who were ignorant and nasty buffoons.  One of our neighbours had a kind of shrine in her house with her dead husband in his Nazi uniform.  We're talking xenophobes.

We lost money but to be honest, it would have been the same as paying rent.  We were glad to get away.

The way the agents act in Austria is appalling. They have very basic skills and almost no training and I think it must be the same here (just check some of the advertising photos - clutter, people in the pictures, weird stuff going on in the background).   

It's basic to understand the market and the market here is small and localised.  The chances of someone from far away buying is almost zero.  But local people mean local prices.

Our advertising consisted of putting up flyers on noticeboards in shopping centres (these were ripped down regularly), sticking flyers through people's letterboxes locally.  This was moderately successful in generating leads. But eventually the best responses were generated by two large signs made up and stuck on the railings of the house.  People who live in an area and on the look out for property can just be driving by.  For us, this was the most effective and brought the required result.  But it still took 8 months.

To do all this, on the signs, we used a cheap throwaway pre-paid mobile number and a free e-mail address all of which we could abandon when we'd sold.   We didn't want any come back on the place from anyone.

Yes, when we sold my MIL house in Erd 10 years ago, we did all the advertizing ourselves, actually my husband did it all, Put photos up online, put adds in the paper.
I think we got very lucky after slightly more then a year to sell it since it was such a large piece of property and not everyone wanted such a big size.
In the long run however it was more of my husband just being stubborn since in fact we lost a ton of money, more then we got out of the house just by spending 18 months in Hungary trying to sell the place. Think we got equal to around $80,000 US all said and done. Can't even buy a shed in S. Cal for that little.
We quit good jobs in the US because my dead beat bro and sis in law couldn't settle things between the two of them to make a go of even trying to sell the place. I believe it would still be for sale if we didn't push hard to dump it.
Makes one wonder why some people in the same family are doers and others sit around waiting for things to fall in their laps.
We just told them both to but out and we stayed in that old house until we found a buyer.
Only got half the house price in our pockets, could of made more then that in 18 months of working in the US with the jobs we had back then.
At least I had a long if not always fun vacation.
Took us so long to sell the house that we quickly took that money and some of our own and bought a flat in the city.
Had to leave 30 days later for another year before I could even do a thing with our Budapest flat.
Bought in too much of a hurry. Not sure why we had such a fire under us to buy and not just convert the money and leave for the states. Just the fact that the house was all of his mother's 50 some odd years of hard work behind it and he hated to just waste it at the bank with the conversion rates. Hard earned money is hard to part with.
Didn't want to give any of it back to the gov., they took enough in 80 years from his mom as it was.
Yes, some of the flats even the one we bought were a darn mess. I literally let out a scream when the women who was a nurse( God help those under her care, so dirty...) pulled the shower curtain back and I got a good look at the black mold in the tub!!
That and having a nice but smelly, hairy old dog laying on the kitchen floor, fur all over the place.
Books and papers all over the flat,the tv set on when we entered the flat, kids all sitting on the sofa watching our every move,They had kiddy stickers on all the doors, what fun to scrap those off.
Was not interested much after that but the others we saw didn't impress us much either, at least our flat had allot of natural sunlight, When we bought the market was very strange, not many places for sale and with a limit of 12 million to spend we had to settle for less then we wanted to.
We were not about to get a HU loan to buy, it was all cash or nothing.
So many the agent showed us were st. level dark and dank places, so horrible and unfriendly flats.
In the US they call it "staging" your property for sale. Making it look, smell and be the best it can, putting away all personal items before letting buyers see the place.
Like I said we cleaned ,mowed the yard, watered the lawn, cleaned the swimming pool and took the dog out before anyone ever saw the house. Nice quiet, clean and bright.
I do remember one home inS. Cal that an agent took us to see one Saturday morning around 11 am.
We entered the house, opened the bedroom door and found the people still in bed sleeping!!
They told us to just don't mind them and keep looking, no way left right away. Some people are very odd indeed.
Funny thing is our Cal house we found ourselves without an agent by looking at a newspaper add. We sold it ourselves too, We sold my MIL place ourselves with of course some lawyer doing the final paperwork, and we found our current flat ourselves with a HU newspaper add. The dumb sellers had their property listed with an agent even though we never contacted their agent. Some dumb tricky deal and we had to pay the real estate agents fee even though they did zero for us. We just wanted that flat so we ate the cost . The agents hardly do a thing in HU.
The 2 or 3 we had first used never showed us a thing worth our time or money. Guess they were trying to dump the worst flats first.
In HU really the lawyers do the heavy work and the agents don't seem to do much, they don't even get the people to clean their places before showing them.
We were shown a house in HU once that came complete with all the old brown sheets and old beds, wow wonder why we passed on that one! Yuck!!

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Yes, when we sold my MIL house in Erd 10 years ago, we did all the advertizing ourselves, actually my husband did it all, Put photos up online, put adds in the paper.
I think we got very lucky after slightly more then a year to sell it since it was such a large piece of property and not everyone wanted such a big size.
In the long run however it was more of my husband just being stubborn since in fact we lost a ton of money, more then we got out of the house just by spending 18 months in Hungary trying to sell the place. Think we got equal to around $80,000 US all said and done. Can't even buy a shed in S. Cal for that little.
We quit good jobs in the US because my dead beat bro and sis in law couldn't settle things between the two of them to make a go of even trying to sell the place. I believe it would still be for sale if we didn't push hard to dump it.
Makes one wonder why some people in the same family are doers and others sit around waiting for things to fall in their laps.
We just told them both to but out and we stayed in that old house until we found a buyer.
Only got half the house price in our pockets, could of made more then that in 18 months of working in the US with the jobs we had back then.
At least I had a long if not always fun vacation.
Took us so long to sell the house that we quickly took that money and some of our own and bought a flat in the city.
Had to leave 30 days later for another year before I could even do a thing with our Budapest flat.
Bought in too much of a hurry. Not sure why we had such a fire under us to buy and not just convert the money and leave for the states. Just the fact that the house was all of his mother's 50 some odd years of hard work behind it and he hated to just waste it at the bank with the conversion rates. Hard earned money is hard to part with.
Didn't want to give any of it back to the gov., they took enough in 80 years from his mom as it was.
Yes, some of the flats even the one we bought were a darn mess. I literally let out a scream when the women who was a nurse( God help those under her care, so dirty...) pulled the shower curtain back and I got a good look at the black mold in the tub!!
That and having a nice but smelly, hairy old dog laying on the kitchen floor, fur all over the place.
Books and papers all over the flat,the tv set on when we entered the flat, kids all sitting on the sofa watching our every move,They had kiddy stickers on all the doors, what fun to scrap those off.
Was not interested much after that but the others we saw didn't impress us much either, at least our flat had allot of natural sunlight, When we bought the market was very strange, not many places for sale and with a limit of 12 million to spend we had to settle for less then we wanted to.
We were not about to get a HU loan to buy, it was all cash or nothing.
So many the agent showed us were st. level dark and dank places, so horrible and unfriendly flats.
In the US they call it "staging" your property for sale. Making it look, smell and be the best it can, putting away all personal items before letting buyers see the place.
Like I said we cleaned ,mowed the yard, watered the lawn, cleaned the swimming pool and took the dog out before anyone ever saw the house. Nice quiet, clean and bright.
I do remember one home inS. Cal that an agent took us to see one Saturday morning around 11 am.
We entered the house, opened the bedroom door and found the people still in bed sleeping!!
They told us to just don't mind them and keep looking, no way left right away. Some people are very odd indeed.
Funny thing is our Cal house we found ourselves without an agent by looking at a newspaper add. We sold it ourselves too, We sold my MIL place ourselves with of course some lawyer doing the final paperwork, and we found our current flat ourselves with a HU newspaper add. The dumb sellers had their property listed with an agent even though we never contacted their agent. Some dumb tricky deal and we had to pay the real estate agents fee even though they did zero for us. We just wanted that flat so we ate the cost . The agents hardly do a thing in HU.
The 2 or 3 we had first used never showed us a thing worth our time or money. Guess they were trying to dump the worst flats first.
In HU really the lawyers do the heavy work and the agents don't seem to do much, they don't even get the people to clean their places before showing them.
We were shown a house in HU once that came complete with all the old brown sheets and old beds, wow wonder why we passed on that one! Yuck!!

First we a frend who retyerd from UK her dad got hear a deal in Tárnok close to Érd asking 21.000m huf. for 3 bed detacht large garden but in poor condition she got it for 17.000m huf but she has to bascaly gut it out rewire elctrics new plumbing new heating  new windows spent 4.000m huf.now she as a now as a home to hear tast, but she is single can speak Hungaryn well so not so lonly as she as frends there.
When I arived hear in 2009 exchange rate was .289huf to Pound. Property at what I could invest in wear not abought in the area I whanted to be in close to the wife,s country cottage in Gárdony I was wanting to invest money in-to this and make it beter, no she sed, ok looking around within 15 km. not a lot other than what I have at present, it was at 4.250m huf got it for 3.000m huf = 8,600 uk pound invested at that time a further 1.200m huf 3,000 uk pound and over the years moor inprovments maid so I think out lay to bring it to a high standed all together abought 13,000 uk pound at to days exchange rate at 420.huf to pound 13,000 uk pound = 5.400m huf. So do it another Way investment toall 5.400m huf if I Get 4.400m huf then a Loss of 1,000m huf dived that By years there say 7 years then a loss per Year of approx 145,000 huf in english amount exchange rate .420 huf = 350 uk pound per year  LOSS I accept I CAN go down to 4.000m huf but nothink to show for all the Hard Work and Investment well thats that i my have got math,s wright but no spelling so totall investment 13,000 uk pound at .420 huf to uk pound = 5.460m huf selling at say 4.400m huf then a loss of 1,100m huf ok fine now we got that sorted then I can Drop Down to this

Easy to buy hard to sell.  Has the agent got a website? If not change agents to someone who advertises more widely. Also you can advertise yourself even on English sites and Facebook.
Also lower the price. It may be priced too high for Hungarians.

If the market is really flat also consider renting it out for three years or so, so that you can move on and explore other places. If you are considering moving back to the UK be aware that you may not be immediately eligible to health and welfare services so the sooner you move the better.
These country places do not tend to increase in value very much often because foreigners paid too much in the first instance but also because it is not like the UK, families tend to keep their homes forever even letting them tumble down.

anns wrote:

Easy to buy hard to sell.  Has the agent got a website? If not change agents to someone who advertises more widely. Also you can advertise yourself even on English sites and Facebook.
Also lower the price. It may be priced too high for Hungarians.

If the market is really flat also consider renting it out for three years or so, so that you can move on and explore other places. If you are considering moving back to the UK be aware that you may not be immediately eligible to health and welfare services so the sooner you move the better.
These country places do not tend to increase in value very much often because foreigners paid too much in the first instance but also because it is not like the UK, families tend to keep their homes forever even letting them tumble down.

Agent, local Agent and two covering other county's agents requre 2.5% + vat on top Facebook her and I hope can post in UK some how. Agents from UK TO EXPECIVE Rightmove very high charge and other expat sites I will not Rent out as would be a small amount abought 60.000huf monthley and I think they would distroy every think I Will Drop to Around 4.500m huf this price includs all furnture fixings electrical goods all so. I accept it,s not probley wright time of year but spring is not far away now 12 weeks thanks for infoemation

I love my Tanya but like many UK people I thought the value was in the land size and not the size of the house. No matter how dilapidated the price of hungarian property depends on the size of the house.
We win some and we lose some in property. It's like snakes and ladders. However your health is more important now so sometimes it is a good idea to just let things go or do what the Hungarians do don't upgrade it anymore and just use it as a holiday home or rent it out.
If you are waiting to get back all that you spent it could be ten years or even more.

anns wrote:

I love my Tanya but like many UK people I thought the value was in the land size and not the size of the house. No matter how dilapidated the price of hungarian property depends on the size of the house.
We win some and we lose some in property. It's like snakes and ladders. However your health is more important now so sometimes it is a good idea to just let things go or do what the Hungarians do don't upgrade it anymore and just use it as a holiday home or rent it out.
If you are waiting to get back all that you spent it could be ten years or even more.

It must go this year but I can not give it away so around 4.500m huf my health is inportant things not good at moment one medication is Bicalutamide 150 mg tb/ daily and plenty of resting

There are always three prices for a commodity:

1) What you think it is worth.
2) What an appraiser thinks it is worth
3) What someone on the market is willing to pay

Do note, these three estimates are often widely different.

Even so, a lesson in Economics 101:

You paid 3 M Forint for a property.

But to many foreigners the price at purchase was 30 to 40 percent over market value.

To honestly assess the resale value, to anyone but a foreigner, you have to account for that.

To be honest, most foreigners overpaid the market value for property in Hungary.

So, to be generous, let us say your purchase was simply 30% above market value and, to be even more generous, let us say the property was actually only worth 3 M Forint at purchase (i.e. what you paid for it). (And I again stress---  this is being very generous).

You added upgrades to the property, but those upgrades must include your use and depreciation over time. So you can never get back what you paid for them (after all, you used them and they are today "used" items, so you can not expect a 1:1 return ratio). I will be generous and give you a 30% reduction on depreciation (which really is again VERY generous). So, given 3 Million for the property (including 30% overpayment but assuming that was the market price of the property) and 1.2 Million Forint Improvement (minus 30% depreciation) leaves about a valuation of the property at about 3.7 Million Forint.

There is your sale price: 3.7 Million Forint or about 8,700 GBP at the current exchange rate. (but again, I am being generous in my appraisals).

Hard fiscal facts. Not emotional.

But sad news: you will probably not get that from a Hungarian. Maybe from a foreigner.

@klsalee

Very good and well reasoned response.

Simply put, sentimental value rarely equals market value.  If a situation is dire enough, you have to put your ego and feelings aside and take what you can get.

First off,I'll risk playing mother hen, get yourself a juicer, do a cleaning, change your diet,less meat and more fresh vegs and fruits, nuts. Vitamins and relax.
The sad thing as we age we usually have a hard time learning to let things go, that is the no. one killer in my opinion.

Yes just about ever foreigner was and is seen as a money bag in Hungary. Most have been ripped off one way or the other.
Sadly any time we now do any business in Hungary my husband dresses down and leaves me at home.
He tries hard to look like any other old guy in Hungary.
Has to run home and change his clothing before I will go anywhere in public with him after he is done with his business.

Even so, his accent has changed in 40 years and local Hungarians stare at him in wonder, he speaks perfect proper Hungarian but leaves out all the new slang words and has this odd accent.
Poor thing, just doesn't fit in anywhere any longer..
In the US when we lived in cowboy New Mexico literally everyday at his machinist job the locals would actually say to him, Where are you from again, boy?" Rude and weird.

Back to your property, between your wife knowing Hungarian and  yourself, there should be a way to post in the UK,and even in western Europe sites.
There is a HU speaking internet site called, Kapu.hu.
She could try posting there.
I have forgotten the exchange rates when we bought our flat in Budapest but they were not all that great. If and when we sell our flat we too will probably have to take a loss or try to wait it out for the right buyer to fall in love with the place and pay enough for us to break even.
10 years of owning the place and the value has gone down, sucks is the only word that comes to mind.
We always planned on redoing the flat, so glad we didn't throw good money after bad and fix it up.
Very embarrassing to show our place when friends come over.
Anns has been over,she is too kind saying it has a cozy feel and suits us, more like a baggy old suit then a dandy.
Then again real friends don't care what you have.
If we think of anything new to help you sell out, I'll keep you posted.
It is true have to think of the good times you had in the place and remember you would of had to pay to live somewhere all those years.
Is there anyone in your life you would leave the property too in the future? A child, sibling or close cousin? If not then taking a loss and taking care of your health is the most important thing right now. Hey, we have all lost on deals in our lifetime, what can you do?

Oh dear,

Please don't get angry,we are all just trying to give you honest advice.
Klasslle has given the most intelligent, helpful and honest advice on this site for years.
We should all be grateful for having another ex-pat here who knows Hungary, has lived here long term and does real research on our behave.
It is very hard for all of us ex-pats  living in a country where the economy is so changeable.
We moved here thinking it was cheap and in the end after living here awhile we realize we may of been duped. If the forint is bad for us, just think what those working and earning forints must be going through here in Hungary.
We have also  spent some blood, sweat and tears in Hungary over the years.
We must try to stick together and not get hostel with each other.
I am sure all comments were made to be helpful and not hurtful.
No one enjoys hearing about others troubles and no one enjoys kicking anyone when their down.
Please take it as a wake up call so you do not waste anymore valuable time and get this behind you so you can take care of the most important things like your health.
Don't leave this site in anger, we would love to help you and truly everyone wishes you the best.
It's only money after all, in some was I am envious of how reasonable those from the UK were able to purchase property in HU. The dollar exchange rate is even worst and we had to travel farther to Hungary.
This only goes to show how frustrating life can be if we don't think logically and let emotions run wild.
At least you own your place out right and have a roof over your head. We should all be grateful that selling property is one of are biggest problems.
We all do tend to forget how very lucky we really are, how many people on earth can say they got to have such an adventure as to move to another country and experience what we have had?
Take care and please don't let this upset you.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Oh dear,

Oh Dear indeed.

All I see is

marwood47 wrote:

[Post under review]

Maybe I should not know what happened.

I am often at times maybe too factual, logical and calculating. And thus appear cold and cruel to others, especially regarding business and finance (FWIIW, as an entrepreneur have made and lost a lot over the years, and have invested a lot in Hungary, which is all at risk, so I understand the investors issues and fear of loss). But never mean any offense by it.

But if I did indeed inadvertently cause any such offense, I do certainly apologize.

I for one appreciate honesty and the direct approach when needed.
You have been very helpful to many people on this site. Intelligent and informative advice.
I always cut people slack and know life can get frustrating at times.
Enjoy the evening.

To me the most important top three things are location location location.  Re: countryside property, some of it is so bodged, it's land value only. The actual buildings can be worth absolutely nothing. Bad self-build construction, no damp proofing and even mud as walling.  Assuming you have money, it's not that expensive to knock things down and just rebuild on the same footprint. It could be cheaper than renovating. At least you get a house to the latest standard.  However, I wouldn't touch a plot now without all services already there - power, water, gas and main sewer. 

BTW, there's a rumour from Mrs Fluffy that the government will allow VAT free build costs up to 10M HUF in the next budget.  But it's only a rumour.  Others may know more. In any case, the 27% VAT on house building is absolutely oppressive so it's about time.

Our own specifications for property were, town (preferably) or central village, easy reach of a shop (in case car broken or snow),  close to public transport (our case 150m to Budapest and Volan buses),  quiet neighbourhood with country feel, family oriented, walking distance to schools, not prone to floods or under pylons and at least 10m (or more) away from neighbours on each side.  Took us 3 years to find a place like that.

Your correct about location.
Our old HU friends from way, way back happened upon a fantastic flat near in the castle district and paid less then half of what we did 5 years later in the 7th.
Same size flat but they got a much better deal in a much better house.
Our old home in Cal, was sweet, we in the neighborhood tried hard to push the city planners to re zone our area to a better zip code, we were only 1/2 block away from the end of the zoning area.
Now they finally have rezoned the neighborhood, a value of a good couple hundred thousand US dollars on any property.
I could sometimes kick myself for not sticking to my old house, live and learn.To me I might be off but everything that ever happens in Hungary is not real to me.
I doubt if I will ever truly feel at home there and don't make any long term plans. I have been there for a long while but still nothing seems real to me.
Been in the US just a couple of months now on a family visit, everything here seems real.
Not sure if I am more comfortable in HU or the US.
Used to live only 6 months at a time in each place, that may be the best way to live, not be attached to any one place or lifestyle.
Location could just be a stat of mind.

Yes we have got to know when best to settle and when best to up sticks and walk away

Best advice ever. I have just sold our little tanya in the woods at a very small loss but it was worth slightly less due to the original seller in cahoots with my agent taking the stove. The last tenants damaging the kitchen, passing Hungarians stealing the water pump, burglars smashing the bathroom. Other people breaking the paddock and smashing the odd window.
Obviously, not all at once but over time mainly since it has been empty so not sad to see it go and give someone else the pleasure of having a cottage in a beautiful place.
So my advice is take what's on offer so that you can move on.
Once places are not lived in they deteriorate and can be vandalised.

If you must go this  year go. Sometimes we just  Have  to leave things behind us. Rent out long term to a local family because then you still own a valuable asset for the future. It can still stay on the market.

One thing I forgot to say was to consider who you might sell on to or what your needs are in the future. 

In the latter, I mean, in designing a property, consider your own mobility, what might you need in terms of the place when the kids have gone, if you need multiple rooms.  We've considered that in our redesign so that we can live on one floor when the kids have left the nest and perhaps we cannot get up the stairs so easily.  We also made sure we do not have to have too many steps to get in and out of the building. We have not made that mistake so many Hungarians seem to make with "ket-generacio" ("two generation)" houses.   Kids do not want to live with their parents these days and want to do their own thing. It's wildly optimistic to think otherwise.  I've even seen "harom-generacio" ("three generation" houses which is verging on absurd.   We had to undo the "ket generacio" bodging in the house we've rebuilt. 

For the former case, if we decided to sell, with the same kids issue above, then we'd be able to sell it on to a family (csaladi-haz) (family house) and buy somewhere more suited to our needs.

fluffy2560 wrote:

We have not made that mistake so many Hungarians seem to make with "ket-generacio" ("two generation)" houses.

Neighbors across the street bought a run down house (I was considering buying it, but decided not to), tore it down, and built a new, larger house. But one where the upstairs and the downstairs have no interior connection. It is like two houses. They do not rent it out, so is not like a Airbnb investment type of building.

I still am mystified who would build such a thing. Is that maybe a "ket-generacio" house for them and their kids (they have two, under 10 each)? I really have no clue. Idea is completely alien to me.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

We have not made that mistake so many Hungarians seem to make with "ket-generacio" ("two generation)" houses.

Neighbors across the street bought a run down house (I was considering buying it, but decided not to), tore it down, and built a new, larger house. But one where the upstairs and the downstairs have no interior connection. It is like two houses. ...

Well, there you have it.  I can only call it a parental delusion.  My kids will want to be as far away from us as possible I am sure. 

Your neighbours will find it harder to sell with two generation design.  If they had their heads screwed on, it would be designed in such a way that the internal design could be rejigged to make it one single house Basically none of the internal walls should be supporting walls. Only the outside walls should support the house. Then the walls inside can be reordered and placed in any position.   The problem is of course the stairs but even that is solveable with forethought.    It's possible to have the water, electricity and gas organised independently too.  The infrastructure can be put easily enough, even if it's not used immediately.

One thing which might work is dividing a single family house type property into say, 4 apartments, live in one and rent the other three out.  With a suitable design, it's possible. 

The building technique I've seen which seems to work best with these features is the same as the one they use to build offices.  Steel beams and partition walls.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The problem is of course the stairs but even that is solveable with forethought.

I watched the house go up. It will take now quite a bit of engineering to put in interior stairs due the method of construction done. Maybe a circular stair would be possible, but even that can not happen without quite a bit of engineering, effort and work (to do it right --  but I am of course assuming that some here cares to do it right).

fluffy2560 wrote:

The building technique I've seen which seems to work best with these features is the same as the one they use to build offices.  Steel beams and partition walls.

Our house had 6 rooms when we purchased. We knocked down most of the walls, punched a hole in a massive wall to connect two separate living spaces that then existed as separate "houses", and extended the living space under the roof. So six rooms were reduced to 2 on the ground floor and one open space above under the roof (well -- maybe four if you include the toilet area we installed to replace the "outhouse"). I really do not understand the tiny, itsy bitsy rooms that most Hungarians houses have. They are I guess historical being easy to heat, but at a huge cost: there was one chimney that was heating three rooms in our house when we bought it, with one of those rooms using a long horizontal pipe from the stove to the chimney -- not only illegal, but stupid as it was a fire hazard --- when I removed that pipe, it was half constricted for air flow and that constriction was loaded with creosote. Chimney fires kill.

Today I find such construction completely unlivable.

The point being, if you buy property in Hungary, you may need to tear down and rebuild, or do a lot of renovation to make a modern, sane, livable structure.

klsallee wrote:

....I watched the house go up. It will take now quite a bit of engineering to put in interior stairs due the method of construction done. Maybe a circular stair would be possible, but even that can not happen without quite a bit of engineering, effort and work (to do it right --  but I am of course assuming that some here cares to do it right)....

Circular stairs are quite difficult if they are afterthoughts but not impossible.  What they could do is mould the stairs into the structure of the building using rebar and concrete and then it would become part of the supporting structure. On the other hand, they can always use steel beams which they can cover up.  Most house construction here is really simple with beams and columns with the spaces filled in with "tile" type air bricks.  Nothing like the construction I've seen elsewhere.     

klsallee wrote:

I really do not understand the tiny, itsy bitsy rooms that most Hungarians houses have. They are I guess historical being easy to heat, but at a huge cost: there was one chimney that was heating three rooms in our house when we bought it, with one of those rooms using a long horizontal pipe from the stove to the chimney -- not only illegal, but stupid as it was a fire hazard --- when I removed that pipe, it was half constricted for air flow and that constriction was loaded with creosote. Chimney fires kill.

Oh, not only chimneys but also electrical installations.  I've never seen such a cavalier attitude to safety. Wrong wiring sizes, no earth leakage devices, overloading,  poor division of phases, incorrect earthing/grounding etc. I could go on. 

On chimneys I had to insist on single flues per wood heater because they wanted to have two wood burners on the same flue.  That's possible with the right design but just in case of some weird downdraft conditions, not sucking air up the chimney  could lead to serious health issues, even death.  No-one wants carbon monoxide blowing back into a room via the other flue if that is not burning too.  I am still suspicious that builders do not know enough about the dynamics of chimneys and safety so I said, two flues.  I am still concerned about the use of cooker hoods in kitchens where there are wood stoves (as the cooker hood might be sufficient to draw in noxious gases from the wood burner).   In any case, all houses should have smoke and carbon dioxide alarms fitted as mandatory.  I might even go as far as suggesting fire blankets in the kitchen as well.

The size of the rooms seems to be something considered after the event.   Our rooms are reasonably sized but for some reason they seem very tall.  Seems to have been the style. We knocked down most of the internal walls on our lower level because the rooms were all stupidly laid out.  We had to use multiple steel beams to keep the ceiling up.

klsallee wrote:

..
Today I find such construction completely unlivable.

The point being, if you buy property in Hungary, you may need to tear down and rebuild, or do a lot of renovation to make a modern, sane, livable structure.

Totally  agree.  I feel that the designers of these older places put emphasis on the wrong things but were limited by their thinking of the time.  Our house now has  3 bathrooms whereas it only had one before even though the house could have had 10 people living in it. I guess 3 bathrooms would have been seen as unbelievably extravagant. 

And not being picky, people didn't wash as much way back then.   When I came to Hungary for the first time in 1994, cheap perfume was used to mask lack of hygiene. And people wore polyester (e.g. plastic) clothing which made everyone sweaty in 30+ degree C heat. It was impossible to even buy deodorant - I used to bring it in by plane. I only remember it being found in Julius Meinl at a high price. This was a ridiculous Austrian supermarket chain, possibly now defunct even in Austria. 

I notice things have improved but further East, I often meet with government people who have the same grimey shirts on for days - black around the collars and sleeves.  One guy even told me he extended the "life" of his underwear by turning it inside out!  Yuck!!!

Yes,MIL in law thought me one spoiled American when I stayed with her, A bath and hair wash everyday.
I used to also send a package of goodies for myself ahead of my trips to Hungary, shampoo, hair tint, deo and creams.
They sell most all my faves there now days but I still load up on supplies everytime I visit the US.Much cheaper in the US plus I can read all the labels.
We brought over fire and carbon detectors.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I am still concerned about the use of cooker hoods in kitchens where there are wood stoves (as the cooker hood might be sufficient to draw in noxious gases from the wood burner).

Modern, sealed, houses with wood heating need an external air source. There are many ways to achieve this. The best is to either have a direct air connection for the stove to the outside, or if that is not possible, then a heat exchange mechanism to allow air into the house, but without loosing inner warmth. The Schiedel Swift Air pre-fab chimney system is a good choice in the latter case.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

We brought over fire and carbon detectors.

Hungary actually has a lot of radioactive sources. Many Hungarian spas even promote their radioactive features as a "health benefit" (yeah, whatever.....).

So a Radon test in any house in Hungary, especially one that is sealed under modern energy conservation regulations, is also a good thing to do. This is a topic not brought up enough in Hungary. In fact, I would recommend anyone, before buying a property in Hungary, to insist on a Radon test of the house.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Oh, not only chimneys but also electrical installations.  I've never seen such a cavalier attitude to safety. Wrong wiring sizes, no earth leakage devices, overloading,  poor division of phases, incorrect earthing/grounding etc. I could go on.

We have an old house. At the time of purchase the outlets were "flush" with the wall (i.e. they were not depressed into the wall like modern outlets). One day, I still have no idea how I did it, but I was plugging in a cord and apparently had my finger against one of the metal plug as I was pushing it into the socket, and electrocuted myself. I am still alive (well, of course), but it was certainly a shock to me (no pun intended).

klsallee wrote:

.....Modern, sealed, houses with wood heating need an external air source. There are many ways to achieve this. The best is to either have a direct air connection for the stove to the outside, or if that is not possible, then a heat exchange mechanism to allow air into the house, but without loosing inner warmth. The Schiedel Swift Air pre-fab chimney system is a good choice in the latter case.

I don't think anyone is actually building chimneys from bricks these days. They are all built from kits the same.  The newest standard means they must be insulated so that sufficient chimney temperature can be maintained.  Anyone burning damp logs (or ones with too much water in them) will get a coating on the inside of the chimney (basically sap) which could lead to a fire.  If the temperature is maintained all the way to the top the coatings all get burnt off.