Traffic incident

It's the old trick of, "Your fault,  you pay me compensation, especially since you are a foreigner and can afford it."  I once Knocked over a young man over 20 years old who ran backwards onto the road while chasing a soccer ball off the footpath. A small crowd quickly gathered, all saying, "Compensation! Get the foreigner to pay compensation!"  My Viet wife pointed out that there is no law allowing football to be played on the street, but if the fellow demanded compensation, she would invite her policeman friend, Lt-Col XYZ of the ward police to come down and talk to injured lad and offer an opinion as to the validity of the claim. All talk of compo was suddenly forgotten and we were on our way.

Unfortunately, the collision also resulted in my falling off the moto and re-cracking a recently mended broken wrist, so I had my arm in plaster again for another month.

Vote4DonaldTrump wrote:

It seems crazy to me that these people would assume that if they crashed into someone then it's that person's fault for not staying out of their way.

I don't know if it is stupidity or not, but I think that 99% of the locals would think not. where I learned driving it is always your fault if you crash into someone from behind, so you learn to keep distance according to speed in case you need to stop immediately. But of course that means driving with brains and sense. But you see the traffic and what is normal here = no brains, no sense, no logic behaving, idiotic maneuvers, zero respect of rules/laws, no regard to their own or others safety and definitely no idea what normal, international driving means.

Not even the cops! just think about it, those dudes pull you over and want money for all sorts of reasons, but I've never ever seen one single cop stopping people for drunk driving after exiting a quan nhau, totally drunk and slaloming down the road.

Were I a cop here, I'd be sitting 20 meters down the road from one of those beer restaurants and pull em over by the dozens...

'grab bike'? xe ôm?

She knows the rule for driving here, Don't Hit Anything, she knows she's wrong,
and she knows from Vince Lombardi “the best defense is a good offense”.

I can relate. In an accident which nearly killed me and totalled my motorcycle, the driver of the speeding taxi van who drove the wrong side of the road in town, claimed that it was me who "fell of" my bike. It was a loud bang. The damage to the bike shows the force of the collision...

He then fled the scene...

The self-absorbed way with which many Vietnamese drive is unbelievable. So you want to cross a busy highway? Go ahead, make xx cars who are going fast break hard. NO WAITING! Even at midnight in a small town, they pull out and endanger the only other car on the road. No, why wait 5 seconds?!

Pulling out into a busy road? Just do it - let some peasants on motorcycles deal with the problem.

OVERTAKING: just honk and flash your lights. Now it's okay to occupy the other side of the road.

Rude, obnoxious and very ruthless people, risking lives to gain a few seconds.

I fully agree with all you said.

hs0zfe wrote:

risking lives to gain a few seconds.

especially ridiculous when 50 meters down the road at the red light they seem to daze away and nearly fall a sleep when it turns to green and only awaken to race on when honked from the rear.

I also love that maneuver when driving on the far RH side until exactly at the intersection of two 3-laned roads and then take a nearly 90 degree left turn... You see it at every intersection and everybody thinks its normal...

The road situation here is just a reflection of the people themselves.

Stop lights mean nothing to most of them,  blame everyone else for their own mistakes and prey that a foreigner is the other party in an accident for the compensation.

You'll go a long way to find people more inconsiderate, selfish, greedy and dishonest as this lot.
Yogis already planning his exit strategy to more civilised surroundings.

I would like to know what the zebra crossings are all about. No one ever stops for a pedestrian even if they are half way across. Are they just road Art, something to Brighton up the place or to keep some workers in a jobs. Any ideas please let me know.

#5 - yes, that just about sums it up.

snake77 wrote:

I fully agree with all you said.

hs0zfe wrote:

risking lives to gain a few seconds.

especially ridiculous when 50 meters down the road at the red light they seem to daze away and nearly fall a sleep when it turns to green and only awaken to race on when honked from the rear.

I also love that maneuver when driving on the far RH side until exactly at the intersection of two 3-laned roads and then take a nearly 90 degree left turn... You see it at every intersection and everybody thinks its normal...

They do it because they have to stay out of the left lane as it,s only for cars,vans trucks.  That,s the law, according to my VN g/f. I,d been intending to turn left many times with blinker on in the left lane, and had vehicles blast their horn at me from behind and it pissed me off no end.  A very strange law indeed.

cabraman wrote:

They do it because they have to stay out of the left lane as it,s only for cars,vans trucks.  That,s the law, according to my VN g/f. I,d been intending to turn left many times with blinker on in the left lane, and had vehicles blast their horn at me from behind and it pissed me off no end.  A very strange law indeed.

With all due respect, I disagree and this would be the first time I heard that someone here is following any rules. OK, yes, I know that the left lanes are for other vehicles than motorbikes. But I am talking about everywhere, even within the lane for bikes, people are on the RH side and can out of the middle of nowhere make a 90 degree turn, without signaling, blinking or even looking.

Furthermore, at each intersection where you say the left lane is for cars etc, many bikes do line up on the left side to make that left turn. So it is in my opinion the stupidity of those who stay right, very far right and then turn left, not obedience to laws or rules.

So, where does Vietnam rank on everyone's worst drivers list? The driving in Saigon is as bad as I've seen anywhere. I'd say Bali is about on par for retarded driving. I've heard India is worse than here but never been there and I imagine China has some pretty funky driving going on over there but also never been. I'm guessing the driving here in Vietnam would have to be amongst the worst in the world?

elemenohpee wrote:

So, where does Vietnam rank on everyone's worst drivers list? The driving in Saigon is as bad as I've seen anywhere. I'd say Bali is about on par for retarded driving. I've heard India is worse than here but never been there and I imagine China has some pretty funky driving going on over there but also never been. I'm guessing the driving here in Vietnam would have to be amongst the worst in the world?

I kinda share your conclusion.

snake77 wrote:

cabraman wrote:

They do it because they have to stay out of the left lane as it,s only for cars,vans trucks.  That,s the law, according to my VN g/f. I,d been intending to turn left many times with blinker on in the left lane, and had vehicles blast their horn at me from behind and it pissed me off no end.  A very strange law indeed.

With all due respect, I disagree and this would be the first time I heard that someone here is following any rules. OK, yes, I know that the left lanes are for other vehicles than motorbikes. But I am talking about everywhere, even within the lane for bikes, people are on the RH side and can out of the middle of nowhere make a 90 degree turn, without signaling, blinking or even looking.

Furthermore, at each intersection where you say the left lane is for cars etc, many bikes do line up on the left side to make that left turn. So it is in my opinion the stupidity of those who stay right, very far right and then turn left, not obedience to laws or rules.

Can,t argue with any of that,but only say what my g/f told me. Many times I followed her in the right lane assuming she was going to turn right at the T intersection, only to have her cut across and turn left and leave me stranded, so I asked her why she did it.  On those occasions where I,ve been blasted from behind I,ve been approaching the left turn with blinker on at least 200 metres before the turn. When I,ve been waiting at the turn, it rarely happened.   To discuss the stupidity of  Viets on bikes would be a never ending exercise, and to try and offset  that I ride defensively,slower than I used to, expect the unexpected and assume the worst.  Never a dull moment, haha.

Just got hit today from behind as we were waiting to make a U turn (standing still). I swear they need to test everyone's vision in Vietnam. The guy went "oops" and acted like we were in his way.

There are some stupid inconsiderate drivers here just the same as there are in Canada, America, Europe and Australia. Other than the young speedsters and the everpresent ignorant drivers most drivers are very good. The average driver and the traffic system here is probably among the best in the world. Anyone who would disagree with me doesn't understand the philosophy or is of intractable disposition. Having spent a decade or three in foreign countries I would rate Russia as having the worst drivers.

There are 12 thousend fatalities a year in Vietnam , the figures speak for themslfs .

I do believe wrote:

There are some stupid inconsiderate drivers here just the same as there are in Canada, America, Europe and Australia. Other than the young speedsters and the everpresent ignorant drivers most drivers are very good. The average driver and the traffic system here is probably among the best in the world. Anyone who would disagree with me doesn't understand the philosophy or is of intractable disposition. Having spent a decade or three in foreign countries I would rate Russia as having the worst drivers.

I agree in a way that they drive well considering the chaos and the roads. I think however, it is not the skills that count of avoiding getting bumped into or evading a crash, it is the thinking or lack thereof when driving. Especially when I see an entire family packed onto a bike driving on the wrong side or whatever, possibly at night, no lights and crossing a 3 line highway. Each time that puzzles me, how can a father be such an idiot, risking to kill his entire family??? And it happens all the time, on every damn road you go you'll see those close misses.

It is now my third decade here and things do not seem to get better. I love the country, the people and etc, but I still think that most people drive with no brains. Perhaps it is getting better since about 15 years they have the ring road and forbid the container trucks to flow through town. Back then you'd see em flat as paper on a daily basis. 20 years ago seeing a road kill per day was normal, in fact, I haven't seen one this year and I drive a lot, so that might be getting better. And in over 20 years driving the streets of VN, I never had even the slightest crash or incidence. I am sure it is because I drive with the awareness that most other traffic participants have no situational awareness and I assume the most stupid maneuver to take place at each intersection, each time I overtake or whatever.

Just observe the traffic, nearly none of them are really concentrated, writing SMS, staring somewhere and so on but rarely ever focus on the traffic. That is not good driving, it is just luck you get home.

But they are probably the best DRUNK drivers in the world....

I agree with many of snakes comments and the key observation is they are getting better. I remember driving in Canada and cursing other drivers all the time. Incompetent drivers are in all countries. The one thing that irritates the hell out of me here is the drivers using their cell phones completely oblivious to other drivers. The environment here is unique and has perhaps the highest number of vulnerable drivers in the world. Vietnamese drivers on the whole are uniquely skilled.

Yesterday I was turning right in to a big c car park with my blinker on .i was about a foot away from the curb , this stupid viet woman came flying up on my inside and cleaned me up , then as I lay in a puddle on the side of the road , she proceeded to laugh until I gave her an absolute mouthful . The viets in general seem to go about their daily rituals like they are all on acid , oblivious to anything , no idea of their surroundings

I do believe wrote:

I agree with many of snakes comments and the key observation is they are getting better. I remember driving in Canada and cursing other drivers all the time. Incompetent drivers are in all countries. The one thing that irritates the hell out of me here is the drivers using their cell phones completely oblivious to other drivers. The environment here is unique and has perhaps the highest number of vulnerable drivers in the world. Vietnamese drivers on the whole are uniquely skilled.

Well "uniquely skilled" is one way to put it

Totally agree, there is a method to the madness and the traffic flow here is unlike anything in western countries. 

If you come with sense of entitlement and western expectations of what is right/wrong, then you will be constantly frustrated and angry.

goreme wrote:

Totally agree, there is a method to the madness and the traffic flow here is unlike anything in western countries. 

If you come with sense of entitlement and western expectations of what is right/wrong, then you will be constantly frustrated and angry.

Agreed. The traffic flows very efficiently, especially since there are relatively few cars* and the motorbikes are agile like bees. Everyone is excellent at defensive driving, i.e., anticipating crazy stuff from other drivers. This is where new expats on motorbikes need to be really careful as it takes time to learn what 'Vietnamese normal' maneuvers to expect. And we also need to adopt the mindset to not be competitive nor retaliatory, to have no road rage. I lived in Boston for 10 years, that is competitive driving at its peak, I enjoyed the sport of racing taxis and playing chicken edging inches past other cars merging into tunnels. No place for that here. I get passed by schoolgirls on Syms and kids on fixies, and it's ok!

* Will TPP allow car imports without 90% duty? uh oh, hello traffic jams

goreme wrote:

Totally agree, there is a method to the madness and the traffic flow here is unlike anything in western countries. 

If you come with sense of entitlement and western expectations of what is right/wrong, then you will be constantly frustrated and angry.

Well said! But by reading some of the comments, there are some grasshoppers who should think about this quote, “The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.”
― Albert Einstein

gobot wrote:

goreme wrote:

Totally agree, there is a method to the madness and the traffic flow here is unlike anything in western countries. 

If you come with sense of entitlement and western expectations of what is right/wrong, then you will be constantly frustrated and angry.

Agreed. The traffic flows very efficiently, especially since there are relatively few cars* and the motorbikes are agile like bees. Everyone is excellent at defensive driving, i.e., anticipating crazy stuff from other drivers. This is where new expats on motorbikes need to be really careful as it takes time to learn what 'Vietnamese normal' maneuvers to expect. And we also need to adopt the mindset to not be competitive nor retaliatory, to have no road rage. I lived in Boston for 10 years, that is competitive driving at its peak, I enjoyed the sport of racing taxis and playing chicken edging inches past other cars merging into tunnels. No place for that here. I get passed by schoolgirls on Syms and kids on fixies, and it's ok!

* Will TPP allow car imports without 90% duty? uh oh, hello traffic jams

In Canada I'm constantly passing cars on my motorbike since driving normal speed is dangerous and having cars want to race me. Drivers get angry at me for filtering or passing them and some would purposely run me off the road. Here in Vietnam I get school girls passing me on electrical scooters. And I like not having drivers rage at me for being curteous or not driving to their standards.

ThaoBrewster wrote:

There are 12 thousend fatalities a year in Vietnam , the figures speak for themslfs .

I'm back in Canada now and every time I hit the road there is always a car accident backing up traffic.

I don't think you can compare based on fatalities but more on collisions. You will have a higher chance of dying on a bike with cosmetic helmet, sandals and no gear whatsoever than being in a car surrounded by metals.

I know my intersection in Bien Hoa at Highway 1 and Highway 51 where there is heavy truck traffic fatalities was regularly 1 a week but with traffic lights now it's cut down to 1 a month.

The absence of road rage here is truly a blessing and I think it tells us something of the "American/Canadian" mind set versus the Vietnamese. Multiculturalism and the nanny state mentality in Canada has spawned this terrible social ill. Canadians used to be known as the most polite people on Earth. Not in a car.

Few days a go I went to market what is in Pho Hue Hanoi, on the way i kept asking my self how come there is today so many people on the roads who can't drive..
I stopped counting after the tenth near miss situation... Also I thought to myself that at least half of the licenses need to be revoked.... Until I realised that half of them dont have any licenses anyway (I think this number is actually lower than 50%)