Why Would You Want Western Culture in Vietnam?

colinoscapee wrote:

bluenz wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

Now that explains why there's such an attempt to crack down smuggled cigarettes from Cambodia that skirt the VAT taxes.  It's competition!

I wish they would crack down more on the smuggled dogs.

Yes those border guards must have bad eyesight and hearing when those trucks roll over the border with a thousand dogs on them. As usual a bribe will get you anything you want.

It's the many that get smuggled across the rivers that are harder to stop.  But there's too much money to be made for it to ever stop.  I've read that up to 5 mil dogs are eaten each year in VN, hundreds of thousands come from Thailand alone.

bluenz wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

bluenz wrote:

I wish they would crack down more on the smuggled dogs.

Yes those border guards must have bad eyesight and hearing when those trucks roll over the border with a thousand dogs on them. As usual a bribe will get you anything you want.

It's the many that get smuggled across the rivers that are harder to stop.  But there's too much money to be made for it to ever stop.  I've read that up to 5 mil dogs are eaten each year in VN, hundreds of thousands come from Thailand alone.

Well, that's because dog meat often is eaten by men drinking beer.  It's also like a celebration meat like how America has it's turkey for Thanksgiving or ham for Christmas.  So whenever men want to celebrate something, they invite a couple of their buddies over for beer and dog meat; I initially got invited but now I don't get invited anymore since I can't participate...and that's alright by me.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

bluenz wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Yes those border guards must have bad eyesight and hearing when those trucks roll over the border with a thousand dogs on them. As usual a bribe will get you anything you want.

It's the many that get smuggled across the rivers that are harder to stop.  But there's too much money to be made for it to ever stop.  I've read that up to 5 mil dogs are eaten each year in VN, hundreds of thousands come from Thailand alone.

Well, that's because dog meat often is eaten by men drinking beer.  It's also like a celebration meat like how America has it's turkey for Thanksgiving or ham for Christmas.  So whenever men want to celebrate something, they invite a couple of their buddies over for beer and dog meat; I initially got invited but now I don't get invited anymore since I can't participate...and that's alright by me.

This believe that if you get the dog worked up before killing it, ( hammer job ), by sometimes breaking it's leg, etc, to make the meat tenderer, what sort of mentality is that, in the meatworks we electrically stun the animal, ( cattle would be shot at close range, wouldn't see it coming ), then cut it's throat, then the carcass would do it's dance on an electrified rail, this would help tenderise it by RELAXING it's muscles. They also think that by the animal getting worked up it might give them some sort of super powers as well, maybe even aphrodisiacal , ( is there such word? ).

In Korea dog meat is considered a warming meat so it is consumed in winter time. There are shops that specialize in only one type of dog.
To kill the unfortunate animal it is put into a sack and beaten with a club to tenderize the meat.
Here in Laos dog meat is eaten but nowhere as much as Vietnam or Korea.
I have eaten it and find it okay.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

ancientpathos wrote:

This is not the USA

Agreed, way too much Kpop blasting everywhere for it to ever be.

WHEW, glad I'm not the one.  I think the Korean culture is too invasive; film and music.  It's to the extent that they drown out locals.

Kiss me baby i'll must be stay here day by day
Saranghandago soksagyeojwo
Kiss me baby just you can take me day by day
Nae nunmuri mareugi jeone

Korean and Japanese culture is very dominant here. I kinda scratch my head when Western expats complain about Westernization of Vn. The Vietnamese I know are much more concerned that their children are idolizing East Asia more and more everyday.

There is no supply of dogs for meat other than stolen pets. 

Out in the countryside a dog thief can be taken out of sight and doused with petrol, or beaten to death by a hundred people.  Both of these up have my approval.  We've had two dogs stolen, one by a creep who threatened to kill our housekeeper if she didn't let go of the dog. 

I'm told that this is a Chinese import and my goo-goo over "cultural differences" doesn't extend to cover it.

saigonmonkey wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

People here will walk to an escalator and ride it up, carrying nothing, just standing still on an agonizingly slow ascent.

Worse than that are the people who "ride" the moving sidewalks at the airport. The idea is to get everyone from point A to point B faster, while still walking - not to give everyone a carnival ride to stand on. It's infuriating to me, and this happens all over the world - not just in VN. Again, not culture - stupidity!

You have never been seven months pregnant flying from US to Vn. Those moving sidewalks were a savior and you betcha I just stood there waiting to catch my breath.

Many people asked "Are you okay?" when they saw me from behind but when they saw my belly, they caught on why I just stood.

ChrisFox wrote:

There is no supply of dogs for meat other than stolen pets. 

Out in the countryside a dog thief can be taken out of sight and doused with petrol, or beaten to death by a hundred people.  Both of these up have my approval.  We've had two dogs stolen, one by a creep who threatened to kill our housekeeper if she didn't let go of the dog. 

I'm told that this is a Chinese import and my goo-goo over "cultural differences" doesn't extend to cover it.

I have 2 different dog buyers go past my gate everyday, you can hear them coming, ' Cho,  Cho ', and all the neighbourhood dogs going nuts.
   Since I've been living here, all my neighours have sold dogs,( and cats too ),  as soon as they sell 1, they get another puppy, you never see kids playing with them, many people here have bitches, purely so they can sell the pups. I don't think they actually eat them themselves though, although I often wonder .
  In fact yesterday I went past a house that had a dog chained up, he pointed at me and then at the dog, ( I have a big cage on the back of my bike, usually with my dog in it ), I think he wanted me to buy his dog. Unfortunately, I've had dogs attack me, probably thinking I am a dog buyer because of the cage.

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

Agreed, way too much Kpop blasting everywhere for it to ever be.

WHEW, glad I'm not the one.  I think the Korean culture is too invasive; film and music.  It's to the extent that they drown out locals.

Kiss me baby i'll must be stay here day by day
Saranghandago soksagyeojwo
Kiss me baby just you can take me day by day
Nae nunmuri mareugi jeone

Korean and Japanese culture is very dominant here. I kinda scratch my head when Western expats complain about Westernization of Vn. The Vietnamese I know are much more concerned that their children are idolizing East Asia more and more everyday.

Both South Korea and Japan was developed with massive aid from the United States.  We felt bad after nuking Japan...twice.  Obviously we've brought some of our "culture" to share with them.  I think that's where all the kPOP comes from...oh Britney Spears wouldn't have any influence on the Koreans what-so-evah!

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

... It's also like a celebration meat like how America has it's turkey for Thanksgiving or ham for Christmas.  So whenever men want to celebrate something, they invite a couple of their buddies over for beer and dog meat...

I dont think so. I think "thit cho" (dog meat) is kind of food that the men eat when they feel they get "bad luck" - they believe and hope that dog meat can turn them from bad luck to good luck (something like superstitious). Like many people eat "trung vit lon" (I dont know the English word!). Also, they think that dog meat has a lot of protein can help them "stronger"... I am not sure any of these are true?!?

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

WHEW, glad I'm not the one.  I think the Korean culture is too invasive; film and music.  It's to the extent that they drown out locals.

Kiss me baby i'll must be stay here day by day
Saranghandago soksagyeojwo
Kiss me baby just you can take me day by day
Nae nunmuri mareugi jeone

Korean and Japanese culture is very dominant here. I kinda scratch my head when Western expats complain about Westernization of Vn. The Vietnamese I know are much more concerned that their children are idolizing East Asia more and more everyday.

Both South Korea and Japan was developed with massive aid from the United States.  We felt bad after nuking Japan...twice.  Obviously we've brought some of our "culture" to share with them.  I think that's where all the kPOP comes from...oh Britney Spears wouldn't have any influence on the Koreans what-so-evah!

Like Viet Kieu here, the Korean-Americans go back to Korea and bring a lot of pop culture. I cringe how every Kpop group has a "rapper" Koreans here in HCMC are taking advantage of Kpop reaching its prime and Viets buy all their stuff like hot cakes from circle lenses to kimchi.

ChrisFox wrote:

There is no supply of dogs for meat other than stolen pets. 

Out in the countryside a dog thief can be taken out of sight and doused with petrol, or beaten to death by a hundred people.  Both of these up have my approval.  We've had two dogs stolen, one by a creep who threatened to kill our housekeeper if she didn't let go of the dog. 

I'm told that this is a Chinese import and my goo-goo over "cultural differences" doesn't extend to cover it.

Not true.  Vietnamese in general don't think of dogs as pets - just like Americans don't think of chickens or cows as pets.  They're tools or food.  You keep a dog to guard the house.  Once it fattens up, then you slaughter it to eat like you slaughter a chicken or pig.  Many people sell their grown dogs to dog meat traders while they raise puppies to take it's place.  While you do have many cases of dog thieves, there are legitimate traders (as bluenz relates in his post above.)   

To us, and PETA, we'd have a big hissy fit.  But when you equate a dog with a cow, then you'd understand about the meat thingie and less inclined to impose our cultural views as superior to the Vietnamese culture.  Personally I don't care for dog meat but men who drink beer love that stuff...so...
   

ChrisFox wrote:

...
Out in the countryside a dog thief can be taken out of sight and doused with petrol, or beaten to death by a hundred people.  Both of these up have my approval.

I'm not sure taking a human life (a dog thief) via clubbing or immolation for stealing "property" is justice.  Jail time or hard labor would be more fitting.

aibiet150204 wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

... It's also like a celebration meat like how America has it's turkey for Thanksgiving or ham for Christmas.  So whenever men want to celebrate something, they invite a couple of their buddies over for beer and dog meat...

I dont think so. I think "thit cho" (dog meat) is kind of food that the men eat when they feel they get "bad luck" - they believe and hope that dog meat can turn them from bad luck to good luck (something like superstitious). Like many people eat "trung vit lon" (I dont know the English word!). Also, they think that dog meat has a lot of protein can help them "stronger"... I am not sure any of these are true?!?

Have to put it under culture/tradition again maybe?

aibiet150204 wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

... It's also like a celebration meat like how America has it's turkey for Thanksgiving or ham for Christmas.  So whenever men want to celebrate something, they invite a couple of their buddies over for beer and dog meat...

I dont think so. I think "thit cho" (dog meat) is kind of food that the men eat when they feel they get "bad luck" - they believe and hope that dog meat can turn them from bad luck to good luck (something like superstitious). Like many people eat "trung vit lon" (I dont know the English word!). Also, they think that dog meat has a lot of protein can help them "stronger"... I am not sure any of these are true?!?

Okay, I didn't know about "bad luck" part.

"Trứng vịt lộn" has no name in English because Western societies consider it gross to eat a baby duck before it's full grown (we usually don't eat duck as much as chicken).  So you have to describe the dish...as "egg with a baby duck inside". 

I can't eat that...because of psychological reasons.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

aibiet150204 wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

... It's also like a celebration meat like how America has it's turkey for Thanksgiving or ham for Christmas.  So whenever men want to celebrate something, they invite a couple of their buddies over for beer and dog meat...

I dont think so. I think "thit cho" (dog meat) is kind of food that the men eat when they feel they get "bad luck" - they believe and hope that dog meat can turn them from bad luck to good luck (something like superstitious). Like many people eat "trung vit lon" (I dont know the English word!). Also, they think that dog meat has a lot of protein can help them "stronger"... I am not sure any of these are true?!?

Okay, I didn't know about "bad luck" part.

"Trứng vịt lộn" has no name in English because Western societies consider it gross to eat a baby duck before it's full grown (we usually don't eat duck as much as chicken).  So you have to describe the dish...as "egg with a baby duck inside". 

I can't eat that...because of psychological reasons.

In the Phils they call it Ba loot ( or something that sounds like that ), at night the sellers come around yelling, baloot, baloot, it is regarded as an aphrodisiac there, ( eaten by women also ).

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

...
Like Viet Kieu here, the Korean-Americans go back to Korea and bring a lot of pop culture. I cringe how every Kpop group has a "rapper" Koreans here in HCMC are taking advantage of Kpop reaching its prime and Viets buy all their stuff like hot cakes from circle lenses to kimchi.

Just a politically correct note:  Did you know "Việt Kiều" is a derogatory...or less polite term to describe "Vietnamese-American" or "Vietnamese-XXXX"? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi%E1%BB%87t_ki%E1%BB%81u

The term "Việt Kiều" is used by people in the Socialist Republic of Vietnam to refer to ethnic Vietnamese living outside the country, and is not a term of self-identification.[25] The Overseas Vietnamese community itself rarely use this for self-identification, instead, most prefer the technically correct term of Người Việt Hải Ngoại (literally translating to Overseas Vietnamese), or occasionally Người Việt Tự Do (Free Vietnamese).

There is still animosity between the "North Vietnamese" and the "South Vietnamese" although the war has been long over.  Try and fly the official present day Vietnamese flag in San Jose and see where that gets ya.  So if you're back in the States, maybe this is good to know not to call Vietnamese-American's "Việt Kiều" since that is what the Communists labeled them.

The Overseas Vietnamese community itself rarely use this for self-identification, instead, most prefer the technically correct term of Người Việt Hải Ngoại (literally translating to Overseas Vietnamese), or occasionally Người Việt Tự Do (Free Vietnamese).

I'd have to highly disagree with this, I'm married into a "Viet Kieu" family and they describe themselves as such daily. Native relatives here also use it. I've lived in San Jose and OC (two highest Viet populations) and no one seemed bothered. But yeah, I wouldn't go around waving the present Viet flag there.

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

The Overseas Vietnamese community itself rarely use this for self-identification, instead, most prefer the technically correct term of Người Việt Hải Ngoại (literally translating to Overseas Vietnamese), or occasionally Người Việt Tự Do (Free Vietnamese).

I'd have to highly disagree with this, I'm married into a "Viet Kieu" family and they describe themselves as such daily. Native relatives here also use it. I've lived in San Jose and OC (two highest Viet populations) and no one seemed bothered. But yeah, I wouldn't go around waving the present Viet flag there.

That's a pity, I could have gotten you some cheap, they fly them at nearly every house and building up here, almost all year round.
  How very patriotic?.

I've heard Việt Kiệu used both here and in the USA in first, second, and third person and never had any indication it's derogatory.  Chinese call themselves Wa Kieu, same there.  My partner calls himself that, our housekeeper hopes to move to USA and call herself that when she returns to visit.  Not going to happen, her husband isn't all there.

I've heard that Tầu for Chinese is derogatory so I avoid it.  I'd avoid VK if I had any reason to believe it's insulting, but you're the only person I've heard say so.

"Viet Hoa" comes up a lot in the USA.  Vietnamese-Chinese Americans, they run a lot of groceries.

Don't get why most people have to walk on a moving escalator at the airport. It's not like my flight will leave any earlier if I get to the departure gate early. Besides I stick to the right side so they can pass me on the left if they like which i find most people won't.

But I get it people can angry with me for taking life in slow motion even though I don't convenience anyone.

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

saigonmonkey wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

People here will walk to an escalator and ride it up, carrying nothing, just standing still on an agonizingly slow ascent.

Worse than that are the people who "ride" the moving sidewalks at the airport. The idea is to get everyone from point A to point B faster, while still walking - not to give everyone a carnival ride to stand on. It's infuriating to me, and this happens all over the world - not just in VN. Again, not culture - stupidity!

You have never been seven months pregnant flying from US to Vn. Those moving sidewalks were a savior and you betcha I just stood there waiting to catch my breath.

Many people asked "Are you okay?" when they saw me from behind but when they saw my belly, they caught on why I just stood.

Several of my neighbors have pet dogs.  I've known rural people who sobbed inconsolably when their dogs were stolen.  People in this neighborhood dote on their dogs.

khanh44 wrote:

Don't get why most people have to walk on a moving escalator at the airport. It's not like my flight will leave any earlier if I get to the departure gate early. Besides I stick to the right side so they can pass me on the left if they like which i find most people won't.

But I get it people can angry with me for taking life in slow motion even though I don't convenience anyone.

I could see it if you're loaded with luggage but just standing still like that makes me feel like I'm aging a year per minute.

My last job in the USA the escalator was really narrow, one person wide, and no stairs.  There was this one guy who was militant about not moving.  I couldn't stand it.

That kind of passivity mystifies me.  It has nothing to do with haste nor patience.

ChrisFox wrote:

Several of my neighbors have pet dogs.  I've known rural people who sobbed inconsolably when their dogs were stolen.  People in this neighborhood dote on their dogs.

One of my neighbours had an old dog, it used to drive me nuts at night, ( sleep all day and bark all night ), the wife must have said something, they told her it was in pain from cancer, ( if it was my dog I would have had it euthanised , hate seeing anything suffering for no reason ), I've wondered why they didn't sell it, ( they had sold 2 dogs before ), was it too sick??, or could it have possibly been some sort of attachment to it?????

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

The Overseas Vietnamese community itself rarely use this for self-identification, instead, most prefer the technically correct term of Người Việt Hải Ngoại (literally translating to Overseas Vietnamese), or occasionally Người Việt Tự Do (Free Vietnamese).

I'd have to highly disagree with this, I'm married into a "Viet Kieu" family and they describe themselves as such daily. Native relatives here also use it. I've lived in San Jose and OC (two highest Viet populations) and no one seemed bothered. But yeah, I wouldn't go around waving the present Viet flag there.

Not 100% sure on this.  But having gone through alot of P.C., sensitivity training in the work force, I am often interested in labels.  I got in trouble in L.A. because I called a female co-worker "dude" which is totally acceptable in cowboy country where  I grew up.  It sounds like the "self-identification" is like how Blacks (or African Americans) go about calling themselves "niggers" without any offense but if a White person did it, it's riot time.

There was some source somewhere I read that equated the word Việt kiều as a label to mean "arrogant Vietnamese".  Many of the earlier 1975 diaspora returned to Việt Nam with riches and acted very arrogantly from the local's point of view. 

Maybe Vietnamese Americans don't have a problem with Vietnamese calling them "Việt kiều" just like how Blacks don't have problems calling each other "Niggers".

In any event, obviously there was official protest to the use of this word (whoever wrote the Wikipedia would have known) since in many legal documents I don't see the government using the term Việt kiều but more using the term "Overseas Vietnamese / Người Việt Hải Ngoại".

I found an interesting study/research on this very topic at the University of Washington if you want to read more on it.

https://www.lib.washington.edu/SouthEas … 0Kieu.html

Legal documents also refer to Saigon as TPHCM fully spelled out but it's Saigon, as one word and no dấu huyền, everywhere else.

Point taken on the N word.  And I can definitely believe that the returning VKs flaunted. 

It's odd seeing American culture reflected in the impressions of distant foreigners; everything that is trite and banal in America is regarded as high culture here.

My wife's family in Tam Vu all have had dogs every time we visited. And they were 'dogs', not pets. Often, they would get stolen around Tet. The thief was usually a neighbor, but every one went out of their way to pretend it was someone from outside.

In any event, two years ago someone had given Chi Tam a chihuahua. It was a yappy little thing but all the women in the family doted over it. Unfortunately someone stole it about two months ago and Tam was on the phone to my wife crying away. Attitudes can change.

In Korea we noticed a lot of city people owned pet dogs of all breeds. By the way, food dogs in Korea tend to be brown Jindos. I've seen trucks of them going down the highway, all in cages like chickens used to go to market in the U.S., and not a one of them was any color other than brown, or any breed other than a Jindo (looks like a medium short haired husky). Contrary to what another poster stated, dog meat in Korea was usually eaten in Summer. Supposedly it fortified one better against the heat. At least that's what the KATUSA's (Korean Army Soldiers attached to the US Army) told me. Anyway, Jindos were also sold as pets, and these were colored other than brown and commanded high prices. Many Koreans did profess a dislike of cats. I've seen cats tied up in yards in Vietnam with a cord around their neck, and my wife would have a fit, swearing that the cat was meant as a meal.

We love cats, but people in poor countries have to eat. Kids in teh U.S. love hamsters and guinea pigs. I remember visiting a friends grandmother in Bolivia. While we were there, she removed a cute guinea pig from a small cage and ruffled its fur and played with it. After we left my friend mentioned that the guinea pig was being kept for food. 

One man's pet is another man's tool and another man's meal.

I've heard Việt Kiệu used both here and in the USA in first, second, and third person and never had any indication it's derogatory.  Chinese call themselves Wa Kieu, same there.  My partner calls himself that, our housekeeper hopes to move to USA and call herself that when she returns to visit.  Not going to happen, her husband isn't all there.

I've heard that Tầu for Chinese is derogatory so I avoid it.  I'd avoid VK if I had any reason to believe it's insulting, but you're the only person I've heard say so.

"Viet Hoa" comes up a lot in the USA.  Vietnamese-Chinese Americans, they run a lot of groceries.

My wife is always careful using the 'nguoi tau' around Chinese. I suspect its origin lies in the fact that so many Chinese arrived by boat, particularly into the Mekong Delta where they preceded the Vietnamese. But the term used in the old records for the Ming Chinese was Minh Huong. Later Qing dynaasty arrivals received other names.

On Saigon: During conversations with locals back in 2003-4, I had two experiences with someone interrupting us to demand that we call it Ho Chi Minh City. On our first trip to Hanoi, we flew in, then took the train South. When we walked out to get on the train, we noticed that all the cars had plaques on them reading: Hanoi - Hue - Saigon. So much for Ho Chi Minh city.

Yeah poor people need to eat.  Poor people might eventually consider not having eight or ten kids, too. 

Sorry, but I'm fresh out of sympathy on this.  Fact is that even poor people know that the dogs they're stealing for a little beer & cigarette money are the beloved companions of the people they're stealing from, and one them threatened our housekeeper's life.  She's like family to us.

I feel about these people like I feel about libertarians and racists in the USA and if there was anything I could do to make it easier to identify and eliminate them, I'd do it.  Dogs aren't cattle, they're companion animals, they bond emotionally to their owners, they are, in a sense, people.

And I'm not even a dog person.  I prefer cats and parrots.  But one of the dogs we had stolen was the first dog I really liked in decades, and I'm still really angry.  At least she was too valuable to eat, and us probably a pet in Saigon.  Or Thành Phố Hồ etc. or wherever.

ChrisFox wrote:

...Dogs aren't cattle, they're companion animals, they bond emotionally to their owners, they are, in a sense, people.

...

That's where Americans differ with Vietnamese in that regard.  On American soil, it would be a crime.  Here's it's business as usual.  Do you want to impose our views here and pass laws that prohibit eating dog?

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

That's where Americans differ with Vietnamese in that regard.  On American soil, it would be a crime.  Here's it's business as usual.  Do you want to impose our views here and pass laws that prohibit eating dog?

However you choose to phrase it, yes, I do.  If I could I would do exactly that.  Just as in America I would ban tobacco (here too) and gun ownership.  And if you want to call me authoritarian, colonialist, controlling, subjective, or whatever, have at it but it's not like I'm new at any of this.  I also think smokers, obese people and people who don't exercise should pay more for insurance. 

Didn't the government here ban "little tiger" restaurants because rodents were hurting the rice crops too much?  They could do the same for dogs. 

Besides, eating carnivore flesh is unhealthy.  It over works the liver.

Anyway this isn't a public policy form so I don't want to get into this at length;  join me on Washington Post's Plum Line or write me privately for that.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

...Dogs aren't cattle, they're companion animals, they bond emotionally to their owners, they are, in a sense, people.

...

That's where Americans differ with Vietnamese in that regard.  On American soil, it would be a crime.  Here's it's business as usual.  Do you want to impose our views here and pass laws that prohibit eating dog?

Pets or food, I have eaten a lot of animals. When I trained with the frence it was horse meat, South America guinea pig, middle east goat and lamb.  In Vietnam I have had dog and this wonderful mekong rat.  The rat must have been genitically engineered to taste like beef.  It sure was good. If you want to turn food into a pet, that is up to you.  I see nothing wrong with eating meat. Yes PETA be damn.

The rat must have been genitically engineered to taste like beef.

The rat I ate as an engagement party last trip tasked like old fried chicken. The guests had earlier been served chicken, which was before we got there, so I suspect the taste came from using the same oil or wok.

When I trained with the French, it was a full five course meal served at lunch, with the meat varying by day. Didn't eat any horse that I know of, though the city of Pau equestrian stables bordered the camp.

ancientpathos wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

...Dogs aren't cattle, they're companion animals, they bond emotionally to their owners, they are, in a sense, people.

...

That's where Americans differ with Vietnamese in that regard.  On American soil, it would be a crime.  Here's it's business as usual.  Do you want to impose our views here and pass laws that prohibit eating dog?

Pets or food, I have eaten a lot of animals. When I trained with the frence it was horse meat, South America guinea pig, middle east goat and lamb.  In Vietnam I have had dog and this wonderful mekong rat.  The rat must have been genitically engineered to taste like beef.  It sure was good. If you want to turn food into a pet, that is up to you.  I see nothing wrong with eating meat. Yes PETA be damn.

Horse isn't that bad.very yellow fat. Go for the neck strips and back straps.
About the only meat people don't eat is people meat. Soylent Green anyone?

I eat meat.  I don't eat much and I do have moral reservations that have grown a lot stronger since moving here.  I stopped eating veal and lamb decades ago because I refuse to endorse the cruelty that goes into ranching them.  Pork is a really tough one for me because I've seen pigs crying headed to market; not screeching in terror, but crying, understanding where they were going.

The Dominionist view would lead me to denounce god had I not stopped believing in any of that around age 11.  Considerate treatment of animals is fundamental to who I am and I've told people I'd known for years to leave my house and my life when they thought some act of cruelty was the stuff of humor.

I'm not vegetarian but I could be, especially here, it's a lot cheaper and the cơm chay is really good here.  I've eaten fish heads, frog, some others I didn't eat in the USA.  I ate goat in the USA whenever I could get it.

I wouldn't eat dog.  I think that's morally vile and handkerchief wringing about cultural relativism leaves me coldly unmoved.  Gruff dismissals about "just meat" are just redneck junk.  People who are indifferent to the suffering of beasts just don't make the grade in my estimation, humanity is bifurcated by that in my view.

And the suggestion that this is a mere cultural difference is insulting and false.  Plenty of Vietnamese resent like hell the introduction of dog-eating from the north, and before that from China, it's recent and it's one of the basic issues in the north-south animosity that we've all seen.  And while people here have what I'd call a totally f**ked attitude toward animals in general (true for most of Asia) I do know people who love their pets, who buy them kibble and hug them and cherish them.  And who mourn when some jack wipe on a motorbike steals them for some beer money.  Is that an imposed western value?

ChrisFox wrote:

now it looks like New Orleans after Katrina.

Are you saying the park has improved?

Parmyd wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

now it looks like New Orleans after Katrina.

Are you saying the park has improved?

No, it was spotless for a while, the company must have cleaned it up for a photo shoot.  There are trash bins every few feet but people still just drop it.  I don't get this.  It's their neighborhood, it's their country. 

Oh, wait, I just realized what you said.

ChrisFox wrote:

but where in the USA the middle class with its expectations of education and manners was once the majority and is now vanishing,

Another liberal myth. Almost all comprehensive research done on the American middle class has shown that not only is the middle class not vanishing but is enjoying a much better middle class lifestyle than the generation before.

"Liberal myth"  got it.

So NO was improved by getting out the blacks, right?

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