Why Would You Want Western Culture in Vietnam?

Ok, so we can expect when you live here not to complain about anything. I lived with an another aussie guy for 12 months when he first arrived. He never complained about anything as he was very laid back, two years down the track I hear the same complaints from him as from everyone else. If people cant have an opinion about something, then these forums wouldnt exist.

colinoscapee wrote:

Ok, so we can expect when you live here not to complain about anything. I lived with an another aussie guy for 12 months when he first arrived. He never complained about anything as he was very laid back, two years down the track I hear the same complaints from him as from everyone else. If people cant have an opinion about something, then these forums wouldnt exist.

I was told by an 11 yr Ex Pat, that the 1st 2 yrs are the worst, and have to agree with him now, you must get immune to things eventually i.e.
   Traffic, treat every trip as a challenge, ( to stay on your bike and not to yell at idiots that think they are the only ones on the road) Lights/indicators are not necessary, they know the roads very well, and mirrors are for admiring yourself while riding.
   Invasive neighbours, after 2 yrs they finally realised I'm not ' lonely ' or bored, ( I have a dog, and a wife occasionally ), and leave me alone, also lose interest in everything I do.
  Relatives,  I've been lucky there, both in laws are dead, only get to dig them up annually, bro and sis in laws are usually busy fishing/teaching etc.
    My Space,    just pretend they are admiring your handsome looks, not your big nose/ears, or pimple that appeared 2 minutes ago.
  Noise,   turn the TV/Stereo up, shut the doors /windows, come to grips that is it only 'natural' for roosters to crow, and dogs to bark , 24/7 and motorbikes go much better with holes in their exhaust pipes., ( or no exhaust at all )
    Pollution, think as VNs do, as long as it's not in my backyard , who cares anymore.
  Rude people with no manners, I blame the Russians.
Crowds, people love the city everywhere, ( or blame lack of contraception? )
  Religion, accept the VN version of Buddhism, ( real Buddhists don't eat meat or kill things ), it is a tradition not a religion.
  Death, accept the fact that you will never be able to Rest In Peace if your VN family buries you in VN. And may even have many millions wasted on a death house in your honour. ( usually on prime land too ).
   I could go on, but the dog wants to go for his run.

Im sure once Bluecheer lives here for awhile he will have some issues, its all part of living in a place like Viet Nam.

Religion, accept the VN version of Buddhism, ( real Buddhists don't eat meat or kill things ), it is a tradition not a religion.

Yeah, I saw the monks smoking and drinking at my uncle's funeral.

  Death, accept the fact that you will never be able to Rest In Peace if your VN family buries you in VN. And may even have many millions wasted on a death house in your honour. ( usually on prime land too ).
 
Yeah, why build one and then the government expects you to dig them up and cremate afterwards. That makes no sense at all.

MIA2013 wrote:

Religion, accept the VN version of Buddhism, ( real Buddhists don't eat meat or kill things ), it is a tradition not a religion.

Yeah, I saw the monks smoking and drinking at my uncle's funeral.

  Death, accept the fact that you will never be able to Rest In Peace if your VN family buries you in VN. And may even have many millions wasted on a death house in your honour. ( usually on prime land too ).
 
Yeah, why build one and then the government expects you to dig them up and cremate afterwards. That makes no sense at all.

The Monks driving like maniac's on m/bikes doesn't impress me much either, actually I find it hard to get my head around that, I expected them , of all people, to ride bicycles? ( instead of polluting the planet with exhaust fumes, etc ).

I just saw a graveyard in Phouc Tinh be completely removed and another in Phouc Hai. Seems that the graveyards were sitting on prime real estate.

It seems that being a monk these days has its perks. I saw 5 of them leaving a funeral the other day and jumping into a brand new Ford SUV, seems that the giving up of materials posessions has gone out the window.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world … 62286.html

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

I'm just bringing an extreme example.  But your question is a very good philosophical question.  By us being here teaching English, do we, are we in fact already changing the culture?

They mainly learn it from movies. Also profanity is usually some of the first words most people learn in any new language. For some reason they tend to be the easiest to learn.

I think change and complain are different.
You know maybe your (colinoscapee) right when I live in Viet Nam my views will change.......................and I will be happier.

bluenz wrote:

[ts the same with the TV censorship in VN, ( MYTV ), even Foreign channels, have boobs blurred,  and even the cleavage shots too are often blurred.

FPT Tv Service does not censor or blur out sex scenes on the pay per view movies. Freaked me out the first time I saw it in a coffee shop.

colinoscapee wrote:

I just saw a graveyard in Phouc Tinh be completely removed and another in Phouc Hai. Seems that the graveyards were sitting on prime real estate.

I never thought that sort of thing would happen in VN, ( especially Rural, most pieces of land here have at least 1 or 2 headstones, I've been trying to get my 2 moved, ( they limit the size of my driveway, that truck driver couldn't take them out of course, only my gate column ), VN's seem to have more respect for the dead, than they do for the living most of the time.
  ( except for one neighbour, he has like a mini cemetery on some of his land, he sold a plot last year to a US Viet Kieu, for a big mausoleum to be built, did very nicely out of that too,  I think he gets a sort of managerial fee as well, the odd occasion I've seen him clean it, but during harvest he has all sorts of crap drying all over them ).

Parmyd wrote:

bluenz wrote:

[ts the same with the TV censorship in VN, ( MYTV ), even Foreign channels, have boobs blurred,  and even the cleavage shots too are often blurred.

FPT Tv Service does not censor or blur out sex scenes on the pay per view movies. Freaked me out the first time I saw it in a coffee shop.

No, this is on the Aussie channel, just a regular TV series, I've seen the same shows in Aus, they weren't blurred out there, who do you think censors them, do they have to do it in Aus before transmitting them here?

Let's not confuse culture with human decency and common sense. I don't want to change the culture here. But I would like them to improve their ways of life to be considered slightly above barbarism. Running red lights and disobeying traffic rules is not a culture. Neither is spitting in public, ignoring queues, and blasting loud music in front of a shop to get everyone's attention. I have been listening to my iPod with earplugs in, inside a closed car, and have had my music literally drowned out by these shops playing loud music as we drove past. I can't believe most Vietnamese aren't deaf by the time they're 30. That is not culture. It's just lack of common sense. And lastly, let's not forget the behavior of the police - instead of protecting the people and enforcing the laws, they prefer to set up situations which cause people to do wrong, all in the name of making a fast 200,000 dong. That folks, is not a culture, although many would call it a "culture of corruption". So I'll say it again - I do not want to change the culture here. I like the culture here. But I don't like the actions of many of the people here. That's the difference.

Gotta love the censorship, but its ok to have barber shops where you can get a head job or a karaoke joint whe girls are supplied. What about those government hotels with massage and spa services for people with aching muscles. Seems that seeing a bit of titty on tv will corrupt people, but whores on the street and girls supplied at hotels are ok. God bless the Social Evils Dept, doing a great job as usual.

Well said Monkey, people have to realise the difference as you noted.

saigonmonkey wrote:

Let's not confuse culture with human decency and common sense. I don't want to change the culture here. But I would like them to improve their ways of life to be considered slightly above barbarism. Running red lights and disobeying traffic rules is not a culture. Neither is spitting in public, ignoring queues, and blasting loud music in front of a shop to get everyone's attention. I have been listening to my iPod with earplugs in, inside a closed car, and have had my music literally drowned out by these shops playing loud music as we drove past. I can't believe most Vietnamese aren't deaf by the time they're 30. That is not culture. It's just lack of common sense. And lastly, let's not forget the behavior of the police - instead of protecting the people and enforcing the laws, they prefer to set up situations which cause people to do wrong, all in the name of making a fast 200,000 dong. That folks, is not a culture, although many would call it a "culture of corruption". So I'll say it again - I do not want to change the culture here. I like the culture here. But I don't like the actions of many of the people here. That's the difference.

They play the ' music' so loud that it makes the karaoke singers sound 'good' .
   I've been past weddings where it feels like the ground is moving from the bass vibrations, unfortunately you have to slow down, because they have a habit of blocking off 1/2 the street, ( I've actually seen the whole street blocked before ).

bluenz wrote:

No, this is on the Aussie channel, just a regular TV series, I've seen the same shows in Aus, they weren't blurred out there, who do you think censors them, do they have to do it in Aus before transmitting them here?

Not sure where they censor them but all the regular channels like HBO, Cinemax, etc. are censored. Its just the pay per views on FTP's service that aren't. Not sure if it is some loophole that allows it or what.

bluecheer wrote:

I think change and complain are different.
You know maybe your (colinoscapee) right when I live in Viet Nam my views will change.......................and I will be happier.

Well I hope we get to hear from you in about 12 months after moving here to see if you still have the same thinking. I can bet a carton of beer, it wont be. But for your sake, dont let it get to you too much.

I got people at the gym to put the barbells back.  How colonialist of me.

If someone steals from, or assaults me then you will hear me.
You know other than that you probably won't hear me.
Look I protest like a lot of people, but I don't go to someones country and expect to have all my home comforts there, or complain when there is not enough car parks.
Yes I am pretty easy going, but if needed I will protest....................but not just because there is not enough car parks.

Not only do they play deafeningly loud music, but it's bloody AWFUL music.  How can anyone stand that stuff?   It's worse than bubblegum.

I let them know they lose my business. 

But the worst rudeness here is smoking.  Followed by littering.  I grimace and hold my nose walking past, get up and move, they don't seem to care. 

Neighbor had a người giúp việc would walk out the door every morning smiling with a dustpan of styrofoam, cross the street, toss it in the grass.  Nice view, huh?  Trash bin about four steps further, but no.  Culture, bah, that's just plain stupidity.  I do want to change that.  I've gone around picking up trash near the house and throwing it out, and since then people have gotten a little better about it.

People here will walk to an escalator and ride it up, carrying nothing, just standing still on an agonizingly slow ascent.  I continue walking.  Now some of them do, too.

ChrisFox wrote:

I got people at the gym to put the barbells back.  How colonialist of me.

HOW!? Teach me this arcane art, since finding matching dumbbells at my gym is like going on a treasure hunt.

ssuprnova wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

I got people at the gym to put the barbells back.  How colonialist of me.

HOW!? Teach me this arcane art, since finding matching dumbbells at my gym is like going on a treasure hunt.

Every day when I arrived I'd go gather them up and put them in order.  Play Tower of Hanoi with the few already on the rack.  Later I printed numbers on adhesive labels and stuck them on the rack.  Eventually the gym got it and now everyone puts them back.  Sometimes in the right slots!

Not only was it a PitA finding a pair I wanted, but I tripped on them a few times.  Infuriating.  And some guys were militant about it, by God this is our way of doing things.  But I think that being able to find what they were looking for "sunk in."

bluecheer wrote:

If someone steals from, or assaults me then you will hear me.
You know other than that you probably won't hear me.
Look I protest like a lot of people, but I don't go to someones country and expect to have all my home comforts there, or complain when there is not enough car parks.
Yes I am pretty easy going, but if needed I will protest....................but not just because there is not enough car parks.

Ok, well lets see how you go, once you start driving all the time, Im sure your thoughts will differ.Maybe a few drives up the National Highway will be insightful.

ChrisFox wrote:

People here will walk to an escalator and ride it up, carrying nothing, just standing still on an agonizingly slow ascent.

Worse than that are the people who "ride" the moving sidewalks at the airport. The idea is to get everyone from point A to point B faster, while still walking - not to give everyone a carnival ride to stand on. It's infuriating to me, and this happens all over the world - not just in VN. Again, not culture - stupidity!

bluecheer wrote:

If someone steals from, or assaults me then you will hear me.

Whatever you do , try to refrain from hurting any VN that assaults you, ( but there will usually be at least 2 of them), here both parties are charged. ( this is why I didn't go running to the cops after my altercation, and that was before I found out 1 was an off duty pig from HCMC ).

saigonmonkey wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

People here will walk to an escalator and ride it up, carrying nothing, just standing still on an agonizingly slow ascent.

Worse than that are the people who "ride" the moving sidewalks at the airport. The idea is to get everyone from point A to point B faster, while still walking - not to give everyone a carnival ride to stand on. It's infuriating to me, and this happens all over the world - not just in VN. Again, not culture - stupidity!

Vietnam has no corner on stupid people or jerks.  But it does have both, just like our home countries.

bluecheer wrote:

I think change and complain are different.
You know maybe your (colinoscapee) right when I live in Viet Nam my views will change.......................and I will be happier.

So what are you waiting for....get your butt on a plane and over here el pronto.

ChrisFox wrote:

saigonmonkey wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

People here will walk to an escalator and ride it up, carrying nothing, just standing still on an agonizingly slow ascent.

Worse than that are the people who "ride" the moving sidewalks at the airport. The idea is to get everyone from point A to point B faster, while still walking - not to give everyone a carnival ride to stand on. It's infuriating to me, and this happens all over the world - not just in VN. Again, not culture - stupidity!

Vietnam has no corner on stupid people or jerks.  But it does have both, just like our home countries.

When I first came to VN, I almost started to get a Superiority complex, I used to think how can there be so many stupid people all in the one place,( especially Rural ),  but I've come to the conclusion that the VNs are no different than anyone else, it's just a greater concentration of population in one place, (  that many of us are not used too ), so naturally you will see more stupid people, ( even the so called educated ones, education doesn't automatically give them common sense, same as the ones in countries I've previously lived in  ).
   There's a saying,   Money can buy you a good education, it can buy you a high position, it can buy you many ' friends ', but it can't buy you commonsense or manners,.  ( I've modified it a little ).

colinoscapee wrote:

Gotta love the censorship, but its ok to have barber shops where you can get a head job or a karaoke joint whe girls are supplied. What about those government hotels with massage and spa services for people with aching muscles. Seems that seeing a bit of titty on tv will corrupt people, but whores on the street and girls supplied at hotels are ok. God bless the Social Evils Dept, doing a great job as usual.

More reasons why I like it here.  Good haircut and shave 70,000 dong.

Is that at one of those barber shops thats open till 11 pm with no scissors and girls wearing shorts.

colinoscapee wrote:

Is that at one of those barber shops thats open till 11 pm with no scissors and girls wearing shorts.

The upstairs is where the extra services are offered, not sure what they offer other than a massage.

ancientpathos wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Is that at one of those barber shops thats open till 11 pm with no scissors and girls wearing shorts.

The upstairs is where the extra services are offered, not sure what they offer other than a massage.

I thnk they will do your taxes for you.

ancientpathos wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Is that at one of those barber shops thats open till 11 pm with no scissors and girls wearing shorts.

The upstairs is where the extra services are offered, not sure what they offer other than a massage.

Wow you go to the really flash places, most are just a small room with two chairs and a curtain out back. Must be good to have all those Uncle Ho's to spend at your leisure.

ChrisFox wrote:

..... 

Neighbor had a người giúp việc would walk out the door every morning smiling with a dustpan of styrofoam, cross the street, toss it in the grass.  Nice view, huh?  Trash bin about four steps further, but no.  Culture, bah, that's just plain stupidity.  I do want to change that.  I've gone around picking up trash near the house and throwing it out, and since then people have gotten a little better about it.....

Something occurred to me. Have you ever seen a garbage dump?  I mean like a world class environmentally-sound garbage dump where they dig out a giant pit and layer it with soil and barriers so that the toxic chemicals don't leech into the water table?  OK forget that...have you even seen a garbage dump?  I often wonder why the beaches are so full of trash and now it occurs to me.

The trash just gets moved from one place to another.  Probably in this case, a barge goes out to sea and dumps it.  The waves bring it back to shore.

I usually burn my trash.  So maybe instead of putting trash in the garbage can where you don't know where it goes, you should burn your trash too.  Get a 55 gallon drum and burn it near a wooded area so the trees can soak up the "carbon emissions".

The government has some land fills that they set up to create gas via decaying of rubbish to create methane. Unfortunately they went for the cheapest option to create this and it failed. A friend of mine who is in the industry advised them not to use the system they wanted. Again, VN officals didnt listen and a 5 million USD mini plant was sitting there bone idle and never acheived what it was supposed to.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

The trash just gets moved from one place to another.  Probably in this case, a barge goes out to sea and dumps it.  The waves bring it back to shore.

I usually burn my trash.  So maybe instead of putting trash in the garbage can where you don't know where it goes, you should burn your trash too.  Get a 55 gallon drum and burn it near a wooded area so the trees can soak up the "carbon emissions".

The wife's commune has a rubbish pick several times a week, ( the residents pay per household ), I've asked several times where does this rubbish go?, but no one knows or seems to care, ( not in my backyard syndrome ), I think your right about dumping it on the beach, ( hard to tell here, the other locals dump so much other crap there, every thing from dead animals to human feces, gave up taking my dogs for walks on the beach, one loved to roll in that stuff ) another place seems to be in and around cemeteries , I suppose the dead won't complain about it?
  The farmer types around me burn everything they can, the greener the better, ( they love that smoke ), plastic. rubber , everything, usually about 5pm, so the smouldering haze hangs around all night.

Farmers dont refer to it as smoke, its more like creating an atmosphere to them.

My neighbour diagonally opposite  also loves to burn, and guess where all the crap from his fire goes, straight into my house. Cant say a lot to him as he has ignored me for over a year, so cant see him changing his ways.

I do see a LOT of recycling.  But not styrofoam.  Serious landfill dump no, and fields are routinely burned to clear the trash. 

But at the very least .. I don't want to see it on the street, in the empty lots, I don't want to see cigarette butts and empty packages in my potted plants. 

Vietnam needs some Lady Bird Johnson type to raise awareness on this.  It's really infuriating to see trash a few seconds away from a bin, especially nondegradable stuff like styrofoam.  Vegetable matter I would rather see in fields than in the trash, it degrades fast. 

In fact, there should be a hillock of cat poop in the lot next to my house and while there are traces of cat litter, there is no poop.  Where does it go? 

Such a land of mystery.