Why Would You Want Western Culture in Vietnam?

Sploke77 wrote:

... I worked here as a General Director for the years 1993 to 1996. I saw the behavior then. I returned last year and I still saw the same patterns of behavior. Thus, do not tell me such behaviour has not been ingrained in the masses already, thus, I conclude this is 'culture'. This is the way people are used to doing things. Tell me I am not qualified to discuss with you! The tax officer is still around, the policemen are still around and those who smoke and urinate in the open are still around! So there!

Hi Sploke77, I would like to hear more about the "behavior" you mentioned which seems to be the bad "traditions" as your thought.

For the point of tax officer, the policemen, I trust, that's more "business culture".  Tell me any country that does not have this issue if you avoid paying your tax obligations?

You should know very well that a lot of foreign invested companies here they sign the labour contracts with lower actual salary in order to avoid tax, social and health insurance contribution, transfer pricing, etc... is that only Vietnamese culture?

To avoid tax in Viet Nam is a much easier task then a lot of countries. I think a lot of the companies you are referring to are mostly other asian companies, Chinese,Taiwanese,Korean. If you have an article on tax avoidance by a Western based company I would be interested in seeing it. I read the locals news service each day and see mostly Vietnamese and other asian companies avoiding the tax system.

ChrisFox wrote:

... I first came here 15 years ago but not again until five years ago and now I have lived here three years.

I saw quite a few changes from 1998 to 2008; dried squid was a lot less common, so were nước mìa kiosks, and the severely disfigured and crippled people were all gone.

Yes, many things have disappeared day by day which I think it's not because the "culture" has been changed but the "society and economy" have been changed.  It's normal as our country is developing.  However, it is not normal anymore if it's the development is unstable, and the Gov. has not taken enough the effective actions.

Just an example, the kids 15 years before, they play very simple games like this
, , etc...

but now, you may find the kids in countryside but a lot of kids have computer, ipad, iphone... which I am not sure if it's good for the kids.

15 years ago, the game was very easy to arrange, we play and share together, have fun together; but now, because these games can only play on computer, ipad, iphone and other expensive devices, the kids cannot share to each other. So, how can the kids know the way and the meaning of sharing? Very difficult!

You may think that I am far away from the "culture" but the bad attitude of many Vietnamese people should not be considered as "culture".  The bad attitude comes from the education system which is going to be worse in Vietnam!

I don't think being connected is the problem, in a way people are less isolated than before .. I think the real problem with portable electronics is games.  I think they're addictive and harmful.

When I get a popup on my phone saying a friend in the USA just came online it's almost like a silent contact, like a touch.  OTOH I see people tapping the iPad screen engaged in one of those RPGs and damned if they don't look exactly like someone on crack.

colinoscapee wrote:

To avoid tax in Viet Nam is a much easier task then a lot of countries. I think a lot of the companies you are referring to are mostly other asian companies, Chinese,Taiwanese,Korean. If you have an article on tax avoidance by a Western based company I would be interested in seeing it. I read the locals news service each day and see mostly Vietnamese and other asian companies avoiding the tax system.

Agree, it seems that most of companies I referred to are manufactures/companies from
China, Taiwan and Korea (and Singapore too!). Most Western companies have "tax analysis" system in order to "avoid" tax more "legally". Ah, nooo, for real global companies the money they spend for their Vietnam office is just not that much (i.e.: see the exchange rate, they can spend $1,000 for many things here in Vietnam). Recently, they have scandals on transfer pricing of Cocacola and Nestle. Have you heard about that?

Granted you have some valid points there. Care to share how the 2 simple games are played? I am thrilled. As to your point that 'education is going to get worse', how is that so? Should not the Government aim to have a better educated workforce, in order to better capture advantages offered by WTO membership?

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

There was some source somewhere I read that equated the word Việt kiều as a label to mean "arrogant Vietnamese".  Many of the earlier 1975 diaspora returned to Việt Nam with riches and acted very arrogantly from the local's point of view. 

Maybe Vietnamese Americans don't have a problem with Vietnamese calling them "Việt kiều" just like how Blacks don't have problems calling each other "Niggers".

"Arrogant Vietnamese" would seem correct. I did ask my husband and a few other "VK" on this after reading that definition and they said to overseas Viets themselves it just means that-overseas Viet- to Viets in Vietnam, it means "foreign Vietnamese" which Viets seems to think all VK are rich and arrogant. Not that they can be blamed, many DO come here and throw around cash like a hip hop video.

I also thought it could be like that, having a "it's our word" scenario but I've been told to say Viet Kieu instead of Viet-American. Maybe I've been accepted into the club and can say it now? *shrugs*

colinoscapee wrote:

To avoid tax in Viet Nam is a much easier task then a lot of countries. I think a lot of the companies you are referring to are mostly other asian companies, Chinese,Taiwanese,Korean. If you have an article on tax avoidance by a Western based company I would be interested in seeing it. I read the locals news service each day and see mostly Vietnamese and other asian companies avoiding the tax system.

Coca Cola is HQ in Atlanta, Georgia.  An American icon that's probably responsible for getting 1/3 of American's obese (at least diabetic)...

Coca-cola suspected major tax avoidance scam

We don't evade taxes: Coca-Cola vice chief

Vietnamese boycotting Coca-Cola on the suspicion about transfer pricing

This article by the Wall Street Journal, a very reputable American business newspaper, mentions Coca Cola as well as Pepsi Cola, also an American company based out of Purchase, New York.
Vietnam in Tax Probe of Foreign Firms

Not sure if that link will work.  It popped up on a google search but after I read it, it auto-forces you to subscribe.  Here's the excerpt that mentioned Pepsi.

The tax authorities will look at many foreign companies that have claimed losses and avoided high corporate tax bills to Vietnam, Mr. Tien told The Wall Street Journal. Vietnam currently applies a tax of 25% on corporate profits and the Ministry of Finance has said it is planning to reduce the rate to 23% in 2014.

Price transferring occurs when two related companies, such as a parent or subsidiary, establish prices for transactions between each other.

Companies in the beverage, garment, automobile, distribution, retail and wholesale sectors will be subject to possible tax inspection, he said. Mr. Tien also named PepsiCo Inc. PEP +0.64%  as one of the companies that will be investigated.

A PepsiCo spokeswoman at its headquarters in Purchase, N.Y., said the company couldn't comment on any ongoing investigations.

Im sure if it was solely owned by Coca Cola the tax problem might not exist, the company is a VN registered company, therefore they know how to scam the system

colinoscapee wrote:

Im sure if it was solely owned by Coca Cola the tax problem might not exist, the company is a VN registered company, therefore they know how to scam the system

IN Aus Coca Cola, etc, is owned by Amital, or does Coca Cola own them?

The Wall Street Journal is anything but a reputable paper.  It's editorial page wouldn't be out of place on the most virulent fever swamp web site.  Since it was bought by an Australian fascist even the reporting has dropped sharply in quality.  On political blogs using wsj links is regarded as a disqualifier for the writer

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

There was some source somewhere I read that equated the word Việt kiều as a label to mean "arrogant Vietnamese".  Many of the earlier 1975 diaspora returned to Việt Nam with riches and acted very arrogantly from the local's point of view. 

Maybe Vietnamese Americans don't have a problem with Vietnamese calling them "Việt kiều" just like how Blacks don't have problems calling each other "Niggers".

"Arrogant Vietnamese" would seem correct. I did ask my husband and a few other "VK" on this after reading that definition and they said to overseas Viets themselves it just means that-overseas Viet- to Viets in Vietnam, it means "foreign Vietnamese" which Viets seems to think all VK are rich and arrogant. Not that they can be blamed, many DO come here and throw around cash like a hip hop video.

I also thought it could be like that, having a "it's our word" scenario but I've been told to say Viet Kieu instead of Viet-American. Maybe I've been accepted into the club and can say it now? *shrugs*

From my research it is definitely a No-No to speak that word in Little Sài Gòns of California and Texas since there still is a large population that is anti-communist.  You mentioned yourself that it's not a good idea to fly the present day Việt Nam in those areas.  I had thought I remember one guy got his shop boycotted/protested/bullied in San Jose, CA when he flew the present day flag below...and in some move against this, the San Jose City Council passed a resolution to recognize the former Republic of Vietnam's flag...the yellow with three red stripes flag as a cultural heritage of the San Jose City people.

Anyway, to these anti-communist Vietnamese Americans (the ones that wave the yellow with three red stripes), the word Việt kiều is a label that the communist government placed on them and they do not accept it - in fact, it's insulting to them.  I think there was a resolution by Garden Grove City Council recently that actually made it "unwelcoming"? to have Vietnamese Government Officials visit their city.  I think neighboring cities, Santa Ana and Westminster followed suit. 

http://www.ocregister.com/news/vietnam- … arden.html

So I think that's where the Wikipedia source comes from.  Vietnamese people here have no problem labeling anyone by that word because it originated here.  And probably many Vietnamese Americans (maybe like your husband) who don't have qualms with the present regime, got over the war and are easy to accept the label. 

To me, I'd rather use the term Vietnamese American because that originated from the US.  But I'd just rather say American because it is a "Unite"-ing term that defines the "United" in "United States of America".  So all Italian-Americans, Vietnamese-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Kenyan-Americans, Russian-Americans, become just Americans. 

My impression is that ABVs find their parents' anti-communism as tiresome as younger Miami Cubans, er, Cuban-Americans, find theirs'. 

I can't help but think of Ayn Rand, daughter of a very haughty Russian family who got taken down a peg by the "virtuous peasant" pretensions of the Bolsheviks, and the loss of stature turned her into a monster whose wretched "philosophy" (Marxism with a negative sign in front of it) lends legitimacy to sociopaths.

I'm sure there's some of that at work. 

I kind of like mosaic America more than melting pot.  Despite two German grandparents I never heard a word of it and had to learn it in high school.  Yet Chinese-descended American still speak Toisan at home seven generations later.

ChrisFox wrote:

... I think the real problem with portable electronics is games.  I think they're addictive and harmful.

Totally agree! I see many people love playing candy crush but at least it is not violent game.  In other countries, I understand they classify the level of violent games depending on the age of the kids, but here in Vietnam, there's no such classification. Oh no, there are regulations for such classification... does it work in practice? I don't know!!!

aibiet150204 wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

... I think the real problem with portable electronics is games.  I think they're addictive and harmful.

Totally agree! I see many people love playing candy crush but at least it is not violent game.  In other countries, I understand they classify the level of violent games depending on the age of the kids, but here in Vietnam, there's no such classification. Oh no, there are regulations for such classification... does it work in practice? I don't know!!!

Is Angry Birds out of Fashion already?, I had a 6 yr old student pick up my phone and start playing Angry Birds, ( I don't even know, ( or want to know ), how to play it.

Sploke77 wrote:

Granted you have some valid points there. Care to share how the 2 simple games are played? I am thrilled. As to your point that 'education is going to get worse', how is that so? Should not the Government aim to have a better educated workforce, in order to better capture advantages offered by WTO membership?

1. About the games: oh, it was example for the game that can ease to find "material" to play. Another thing is I was really good at those games when I was a kid

2. "education": my feeling tells me that you are not questioning??? Many of you here remind me my former boss who can read Vietnamese very well.  My former boss read local newspapers more than us - Vietnamese office staffs (yeah! I know, it's ashamed!).  He also read the English translation just to compare with the Vietnamese version to see if the newspaper "cheated" the foreigners.   Well, saying so because many expats in Vietnam, if they care enough, they will know and if they stay here long enough, they will understand well.  It's a long story and I just don't want to talk about that.

3. WTO: wao, how many Vietnamese people you know that care about WTO? How many understand what they need to do and should do when Vietnam is a member of WTO? Don't tell me those people are officials working at State agencies and they have just done some "overseas training" about WTO commitment or GATT?  Introduce me to those people if you know, please!

colinoscapee wrote:

Im sure if it was solely owned by Coca Cola the tax problem might not exist, the company is a VN registered company, therefore they know how to scam the system

What do you mean by "solely owned by Coca Cola"?!?

At the beginning, Coca Cola entered into Vietnam market under joint venture with a Vietnamese partner (who was famous with the brandname Chương Dương). Later, Coca Cola bought out all the Vietnamese partner's shares to become 100% foreign owned. Their board of management are foreigners, the management system has to follow "international standard"! So, are you trying to say that because Coca Cola Vietnam is established in Vietnam, then it must use "the Vietnamese way"?!?  And are you sure that "avoiding tax" is the Vietnamese way??? Tell me that "avoiding tax" just follows "international standard", then I will believe!

"Coca-Cola Beverages Vietnam Ltd. is a 100% foreign-invested company. It is a subsidiary of the Bottling Investment Group (BIG), which is 100% owned and operation within The Coca-Cola Company." [http://gotoadmin.amchamvietnam.com/company/301/detail]

bluenz wrote:

aibiet150204 wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

... I think the real problem with portable electronics is games.  I think they're addictive and harmful.

Totally agree! I see many people love playing candy crush but at least it is not violent game.  In other countries, I understand they classify the level of violent games depending on the age of the kids, but here in Vietnam, there's no such classification. Oh no, there are regulations for such classification... does it work in practice? I don't know!!!

Is Angry Birds out of Fashion already?, I had a 6 yr old student pick up my phone and start playing Angry Birds, ( I don't even know, ( or want to know ), how to play it.

I heard that candy crush is on top now... I don't play electronic games! Well, to be honest, I don't know how to play!

Only game I have the patience for is Sudoku.  Those whiz-ban action things just feel like time streaming by and getting nothing done

ChrisFox wrote:

Only game I have the patience for is Sudoku.  Those whiz-ban action things just feel like time streaming by and getting nothing done

I agree, vidio games seem like a waste of time. Chess, crosswords and scrabble are still games i enjoy.

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

saigonmonkey wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

People here will walk to an escalator and ride it up, carrying nothing, just standing still on an agonizingly slow ascent.

Worse than that are the people who "ride" the moving sidewalks at the airport. The idea is to get everyone from point A to point B faster, while still walking - not to give everyone a carnival ride to stand on. It's infuriating to me, and this happens all over the world - not just in VN. Again, not culture - stupidity!

You have never been seven months pregnant flying from US to Vn. Those moving sidewalks were a savior and you betcha I just stood there waiting to catch my breath.

Many people asked "Are you okay?" when they saw me from behind but when they saw my belly, they caught on why I just stood.

I don't have a problem with the disabled or pregnant person standing on a moving sidewalk. My problem is with those like me who have been sitting in a plane for 2-5 hours, then thinking they are too "tired" to walk through the airport upon arrival. Another poster mentioned being in a hurry to get to the departure gate. What if the plane is boarding and you are late? There are times for leisure, and times to hurry. I don't see the moving sidewalks at the airport as being areas for leisure activity. If you feel the need to stand on the moving sidewalk, please stand to one side with your carry-ons out of the way so I can get past you.

BTW Milkybunny, WHY were you flying at 7 months pregnant? I'm surprised the airline let you on the plane. (My wife just had a baby, so I'm qualified to ask that question.)

saigonmonkey wrote:

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

saigonmonkey wrote:

Worse than that are the people who "ride" the moving sidewalks at the airport. The idea is to get everyone from point A to point B faster, while still walking - not to give everyone a carnival ride to stand on. It's infuriating to me, and this happens all over the world - not just in VN. Again, not culture - stupidity!

You have never been seven months pregnant flying from US to Vn. Those moving sidewalks were a savior and you betcha I just stood there waiting to catch my breath.

Many people asked "Are you okay?" when they saw me from behind but when they saw my belly, they caught on why I just stood.

I don't have a problem with the disabled or pregnant person standing on a moving sidewalk. My problem is with those like me who have been sitting in a plane for 2-5 hours, then thinking they are too "tired" to walk through the airport upon arrival. Another poster mentioned being in a hurry to get to the departure gate. What if the plane is boarding and you are late? There are times for leisure, and times to hurry. I don't see the moving sidewalks at the airport as being areas for leisure activity. If you feel the need to stand on the moving sidewalk, please stand to one side with your carry-ons out of the way so I can get past you.

BTW Milkybunny, WHY were you flying at 7 months pregnant? I'm surprised the airline let you on the plane. (My wife just had a baby, so I'm qualified to ask that question.)

The cut off is actually pretty late with pregnancy and flying, just need a note from your doctor saying you're not high risk and estimated due date! Why was I flying? Because I'm an idiot! lol (Was visiting family and eating my weight in fall goodies I can't get here like pumpkin bread, pumkin pie, pumkin icecream....) That was two months ago, I've refused to travel since to say the least, I'm still worn out from it. I don't see how women ride motorbikes pregnant here...

I spent the last week in HCMC, staying in D1. I enjoy Saigon, but there always are a large group of beggars. Now I believe in helping out the old and disabled but in D1 I always feel like I am being taken for a ride. Then if I give someone something, others come over seeking some too. In Da Nang or Quang Ngai this doesn't happen and the people seem more appreciative. If I see someone that I think is hungry or children in need of clothes in Quang Ngai, I believe in practicing randon acts of kindness and I spend some money. Is this just a big city social problem in HCMC?

Bad enough getting vé số sellers seven times in one meal, worse when they shove a handful of tickets between your mouth and your plate.  Pretty goddamn pushy.  But then there are the ones who are severely crippled, or with horrifying neurological disorders, and I can't help but wonder if I'm seeing the after effects of the war my country waged here in fear of the rise of some government that didn't grovel over the rich like America does.  That might catch on.  sometimes I buy a few tickets, sometimes I just give them a few notes.  I protested that war, but it was still my country did it.

But I only go to Saigon when I need to because the tobacco smoke is so concentrated, even nowhere near a smoker, that I have a splitting headache by mid-afternoon unless I'm far from the madding crowd.  I've never experienced that anywhere else.

ancientpathos wrote:

I spent the last week in HCMC, staying in D1. I enjoy Saigon, but there always are a large group of beggars. Now I believe in helping out the old and disabled but in D1 I always feel like I am being taken for a ride. Then if I give someone something, others come over seeking some too. In Da Nang or Quang Ngai this doesn't happen and the people seem more appreciative. If I see someone that I think is hungry or children in need of clothes in Quang Ngai, I believe in practicing randon acts of kindness and I spend some money. Is this just a big city social problem in HCMC?

Cuz everybody knows HCMC has alot of foreigners.  It's where the money is.

Your predicament can be alleviated by not giving money away.  If you see someone thirsty, you go buy a bottle of water and give them the bottle...They'll get pissed at you but everybody's gotta drink water in this heat.  You might get a nod (which is equivalent to a recognition and maybe a thank you).

ChrisFox wrote:

Bad enough getting vé số sellers seven times in one meal, worse when they shove a handful of tickets between your mouth and your plate.  Pretty goddamn pushy.  But then there are the ones who are severely crippled, or with horrifying neurological disorders, and I can't help but wonder if I'm seeing the after effects of the war my country waged here in fear of the rise of some government that didn't grovel over the rich like America does.  That might catch on.  sometimes I buy a few tickets, sometimes I just give them a few notes.  I protested that war, but it was still my country did it.

But I only go to Saigon when I need to because the tobacco smoke is so concentrated, even nowhere near a smoker, that I have a splitting headache by mid-afternoon unless I'm far from the madding crowd.  I've never experienced that anywhere else.

When I was very young I believed my country was right about everything. Now I know better and feel...  Best not go down that road.

When I see the children being pushed around on a cart because they can not afford a wheel chair I feel for the parents.  I know how difficult it is to care for a disabled child. I always donate to them. Hopefully some of the money goes to them.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

... Cuz everybody knows HCMC has alot of foreigners.  It's where the money is...

Hey, I would like to hear more details on the relation between the foreigners and the sources of money?!?

Do tourists buy lottery tickets?   Really?  Not even knowing how to check if they've won?  That doesn't seem very smart.  I do know how to check and I don't buy them.

ChrisFox wrote:

Do tourists buy lottery tickets?   Really?  Not even knowing how to check if they've won?  That doesn't seem very smart.  I do know how to check and I don't buy them.

I laugh at them too, how would a tourist know the price of a ticket, the prize money, draw dates, closing dates, etc, etc, do they think anyone would be gulliable enough to actually buy any? or do they hope you will buy, ( a donation ), out of pity, I notice many old people, disabled, Handicapped, and War vets trying to peddle them.

I often buy them from the disabled ones because I figure my country probably had something to do with the disabling, whether from mutagenic defoliants or land mines. Sometimes I just give them a bill and wave away the tickets.

There is one guy in my neighborhood, good-looking young man, has a slight limp, and even though he can't be past his early 20s he's already on the ticket sales circuit.  It's just so hopeless and sad.

aibiet150204 wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

... Cuz everybody knows HCMC has alot of foreigners.  It's where the money is...

Hey, I would like to hear more details on the relation between the foreigners and the sources of money?!?

Not speaking for everyone, but the people I know recieve income from rental properties, military retirements, pensions and savings.  We worked hard for our money. I could be that poor crazy guy in the states or the rich foreigner here.  I prefer the rich foreigner.

I confess to being seriously uncomfortable with the respect, hell, reverence, I get here just by virtue of being a foreigner.  I don't like it.  I want to earn it.   I hope to earn it not by flashing around a lot of wealth, that's shabby; I want to earn by, among other things, getting not just capable in the language but seriously fluent and as capable as I am in English.  It's not going to be easy.

bluenz wrote:

ChrisFox wrote:

Do tourists buy lottery tickets?   Really?  Not even knowing how to check if they've won?  That doesn't seem very smart.  I do know how to check and I don't buy them.

I laugh at them too, how would a tourist know the price of a ticket, the prize money, draw dates, closing dates, etc, etc, do they think anyone would be gulliable enough to actually buy any? or do they hope you will buy, ( a donation ), out of pity, I notice many old people, disabled, Handicapped, and War vets trying to peddle them.

One of the first part of my 'learning lessons' into the way my wife(as a Buddhist) thinks was my second day in Sai Gon.
Parked her motorbike in underground parking in D1. There was a very old VN woman, obviously homeless, sitting at the bottom of the exit ramp. My wife said nothing, stopped, opened her handbag and gave the old woman some money without counting it first.
She explained to me later she believed to help those less fortunate than us whenever she could.
She believes this sort of kindness to complete strangers, and expecting nothing back in exchange, lessened the chances of her ending up in the same circumstances in her old age.
Being Vietnamese herself originally from hard working, old fashioned, traditional VN family in Ben Tre. Now very well educated because of all the decades of very hard, physical, 7 day a week, work both her parents and her grand parents went through to ensure their three daughters had a chance of a good education.
She's typically also very 'street wise' and isn't fooled by the usual scams.

As far as buying lottery tickets goes, there was a young guy with badly deformed unusable legs from a motorbike crash, used to sit on the side of Nguyen van Linh selling raffle tickets.
He could only move by dragging himself along with flip-flops on his hands, very slowly and obviously very painfully.
Passed him each day on the way to the gym. Every few days for about a month I'd pull up like others and hand him something like about 20K or 50K VND then take off again for the gym. Could never figure out why he kept giving me dirty looks.
Asked my wife what was going on. She explained that by just giving him the money and not taking at least one ticket, I was insulting him, causing him 'loss of face', inferring he was a beggar.
Next morning on the way to the gym my wife came along with me. We stopped and she explained to him that I had just arrived from Australia and was unfamilar with VN / Buddhist customs and beliefs. That I never intended to insult him or cause him 'loss of face'.
After that I'd still stop but I'd always take one ticket from him - made him happy and after that day I always got small nod and a genuine, warm smile.

Lesson learned - never judge anyone just by what you see.

Thanks for the tip

ancientpathos wrote:

...

When I see the children being pushed around on a cart because they can not afford a wheel chair I feel for the parents.  I know how difficult it is to care for a disabled child. I always donate to them. Hopefully some of the money goes to them.

Western designed wheelchairs...these ones...


are somewhat useless in Việt Nam (can only be used at a hospital or inside a building).  Why?  Because these ones require an ADA compliant physical environment and roads having concrete sidewalks!  Neither of which exist here.  Yet I still see stories of NGOs donating said wheelchairs.  What they should do is donate the Vietnamese made wheelchairs. 



The first time I saw those, I thought the designers were geniuses.

You should buy these AP and physically deliver it to them - don't give money cuz it might go to the family's new motorbike fund instead.

Thank you Flip465, I learned something new today. Personally I never took a ticket because my bad luck will never allow me to win. Now I will take a ticket, maybe give it to someone. My bad luck maybe good luck for them.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

ancientpathos wrote:

...

When I see the children being pushed around on a cart because they can not afford a wheel chair I feel for the parents.  I know how difficult it is to care for a disabled child. I always donate to them. Hopefully some of the money goes to them.

Western designed wheelchairs...these ones...
http://www.stepbystep.com/wp-content/up … hair-2.jpg

are somewhat useless in Việt Nam (can only be used at a hospital or inside a building).  Why?  Because these ones require an ADA compliant physical environment and roads having concrete sidewalks!  Neither of which exist here.  Yet I still see stories of NGOs donating said wheelchairs.  What they should do is donate the Vietnamese made wheelchairs. 

http://dantri.vcmedia.vn/Uploaded/2009/ … 161109.jpg

The first time I saw those, I thought the designers were geniuses.

You should buy these AP and physically deliver it to them - don't give money cuz it might go to the family's new motorbike fund instead.

There is a handicapped boy who lives about 1/2 way between Quang Ngai and My Lai,  ( about 8 kms ), he has one of those VN wheelchairs, the other afternoon I passed him trundling along , heading towards QN, on my way home later, in the dark, I saw him pushing/pulling another wheelchair along side him, no lights of course, he must have very strong arms, and a lot of luck, he is just another road hazard everyone has to contend with, ( he also sells lottery tickets ).

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

ancientpathos wrote:

...

When I see the children being pushed around on a cart because they can not afford a wheel chair I feel for the parents.  I know how difficult it is to care for a disabled child. I always donate to them. Hopefully some of the money goes to them.

Western designed wheelchairs...these ones...
http://www.stepbystep.com/wp-content/up … hair-2.jpg

are somewhat useless in Việt Nam (can only be used at a hospital or inside a building).  Why?  Because these ones require an ADA compliant physical environment and roads having concrete sidewalks!  Neither of which exist here.  Yet I still see stories of NGOs donating said wheelchairs.  What they should do is donate the Vietnamese made wheelchairs. 

http://dantri.vcmedia.vn/Uploaded/2009/ … 161109.jpg

The first time I saw those, I thought the designers were geniuses.

You should buy these AP and physically deliver it to them - don't give money cuz it might go to the family's new motorbike fund instead.

I was actually thinking of the specialty wheelchairs for children. My son chair had big tires, adjustible for sitting or reclining and there were attachments for headrests, trays and other things. Some of the carts I have seen with children in them are very workable for the streets and terrain here. My son finally started walking when he was 10 years old.  We use to make him stand up in a brace, then moved to a walker with wheels to walking with us holding his hands.  At 16 he is now walking everywhere. Someday I hope he will be able to run. Getting off topic...

bluenz wrote:

... I notice many old people, disabled, Handicapped, and War vets trying to peddle them.

That's because it's a national program for the poor.  It gives them at least a "job" versus sitting on the sidewalk begging all day.  Each Province is allowed one lottery company (probably a state-owned company).  They have agents (like branch offices) in various areas.  Whoever is old, disabled, handicapped...disadvantaged can come to these centers each day and get a wad of tickets to go sell.  They get commissioned based on how many tickets they sell. 

Although I love the idea of having a job for the disadvantaged, I DO NOT BUY lottery tickets due to the microscopic odds of winning.  So instead of wasting the 10,000 VND on a ticket (and the poor getting a fraction of that in commission), I take it and buy lunch/dinner for the seller.  (You've seen some of my posts asking people to do the same). 

Tonight in fact while I was eating dinner, an older lady walked up to me and asked if I could help her by buying a ticket.  I told her no but then asked if she ate dinner yet.  She said no so I said sit down next to me and I'll buy you dinner.  She acted all confused (probably cuz nobody gives a crap about lottery ticket sellers since they're bottom feeders in the society pecking order) but I insisted she sit down; I called the waiter over and ordered a plate of rice.  I prepaid her meal and left quickly as to not make the lottery ticket seller nervous. 

Therefore, I do not advise you to buy a lottery ticket but instead use that money to directly help the lottery ticket sellers themselves..via lunch/dinner/food/water.

Flip465 wrote:

Asked my wife what was going on. She explained that by just giving him the money and not taking at least one ticket, I was insulting him, causing him 'loss of face', inferring he was a beggar.
Next morning on the way to the gym my wife came along with me. We stopped and she explained to him that I had just arrived from Australia and was unfamilar with VN / Buddhist customs and beliefs. That I never intended to insult him or cause him 'loss of face'.
After that I'd still stop but I'd always take one ticket from him - made him happy and after that day I always got small nod and a genuine, warm smile.

In light of what Flip465 wrote in regards to buying a lottery ticket, my brain is starting to hurt.  Cuz he's presenting a challenge to my views on what a charitable act should be... I'm thinking about this...In America, how do people feel when they go into a food bank and ask for free food?  They lose face?

Okay two ways of thinking.  If you see a lottery sales person as an equal, then buy the ticket just as if you were buying a new motorbike from a Honda dealership.  The lottery sales person and you are conducting a business transaction.

If you see the lottery sales person in front of you with sympathy and your heart wants to do a charitable act...then follow my advice.  Since just giving money to the lottery ticket seller makes them lose face, I would think buying food/drink for them would not.  It is the same as buying a buddy of yours a drink at a coffee shop. 

Okay, I'm at ease now.  The lottery ticket saleslady tonight was my friend who I invited to join me for dinner, not a beggar since she didn't ask anything from me.  But did she "lose face"?

Hmm...do I care?  Hmm..