The cost of Living in Hungary in 2023

Prices in local terms have effectively doubled: yoghurt, milk, butter, cereal, chicken... while wages for the most part (high school teacher) are nearly unchanged (180K to now 200K). I'm finding the weekly shop for food runs us (family of 3) 75K HUF. Rent and common fees have also gone up but not as much for many. 80 sqm in Bp is 200K HUF.

Utilities are the same as last year if we don't breach the limit (18K) but we're keeping the thermostat between 17 C at night with 20 for a few hours in the daytime. We wear heavy sweaters always. When they do come to eventually read the meters, if we've exceeded the quota, the extra fees will be 6 times the subsidised rate (hence the thermostat set to 17 C).

Phone and such is still the same but likely due to contracts. For us 3 all together it's 20K. Insurance is at present unchanged at 25K per month (paid annually). 

Public transport has remained the same at 10K per month for the bus pass. Petrol is now .7K per liter. We use the car sparingly.

We no longer go out to restaurants, no hols. We walk in the parks a lot.

Had to call a plumber earlier this week who asked us for 80K without an invoice or 144K with. We needed the invoice. We had a similar problem around 2 years ago and I recall it cost us less than 40.

If you're wonderIng how we afford stuff... we use savings and investment income to cover the shortfall.

Both of us parents are looking for better paying jobs now. And we are wondering how we cover our daughter's costs of attending university abroad next year.

@Mickael

Im not really the right person to ask because I tend to live well within my means whatever those means are and I also tend not to run up too many debts and refuse to buy overpriced items.

In terms of accommodation, I bought my flat and cottage a long time ago but could not afford to purchase the same apartment again because simular apartments are now costing well above my current price range. Countryside properties seem to be more or less the same price as a few years ago and there are still many for sale 10,000 € and upwards.

However down at the cheap end they tend to be in more isolated places , lacking electricity and pumped water.

Also with no village life, pubs or shops or public transport.

The price of rentals in Budapest seem to be a lot higher in the inner city and even small studios can cost over 100 € a week plus bills.

Public transport (bus, metro, tram,)costs much the same as a few years ago in the city and in more rural areas.

Food and other household items have increased in price the most. The price of anything imported has doubled and bread cheese eggs and other basics have also greatly increased.

I refuse to buy anything extortionate and do all my own cooking so it doesn't affect me too badly but it must be more of a struggle for families.

I don't tend to use medical services in Hungary. If I see a private doctor it's about 30€ a visit plus prescriptions.

All my utility bills ,phone and Internet and common costs for both homes come to between 150 and 200 € a month.

I'm currently considered to be a low user but if I use above a certain level gas and electricity costs will double.

I tend to buy sweets, treats,books, art materials, bedding, clothing, and small electrical items when I visit the uk . But only if I should need anything.

Otherwise I am a second hand Rose.

• Rents: 150 - 300 k Huf (without utilities/ common cost)  for a 50-60 sq flat in the capital.
• Food became expensive, over 100 k Huf/ person/ month
• Electricity is about 40-50 k Huf per month (would be over 200 k without government subsidy)
• Internet 10-30 k Huf but starts to be as censored as in the UK/ China.

There's an article on Euronews on Hungarians buying fuel in Slovakia:

Hungarian motorists buy petrol in Slovakia and Romania to save money

and inflation on food is 50% in Hungary (worst in Europe):

Inflation in Europe is falling but food prices are rising. Who is paying the most and what for?

Internet 10-30 k Huf but starts to be as censored as in the UK/ China.
-@sjbabilon5

How is the Internet censored in the UK?  Got a link to that?  Sources?

Don't care about China.  We all know about that.

How is the Internet censored in the UK? Got a link to that? Sources?

-@fluffy2560

Lived there, used internet there, personal experience.

They were the main reason why I did train myself in an ultra extensive way in cybersecurity. Actually in a way that is a great benefit, and for that I should be glad.

Also they were the main reason why did I use mostly the real net.

Similar true for any 14 eye: minefield.

How is the Internet censored in the UK? Got a link to that? Sources?

-@fluffy2560

Lived there, used internet there, personal experience.
They were the main reason why I did train myself in an ultra extensive way in cybersecurity. Actually in a way that is a great benefit, and for that I should be glad.
Also they were the main reason why did I use mostly the real net.
Similar true for any 14 eye: minefield.
-@sjbabilon5

PLEASE

Nothing to do with the UK, so let us keep it on topic. Hungary

How is the Internet censored in the UK? Got a link to that? Sources?

-@fluffy2560

Lived there, used internet there, personal experience.
They were the main reason why I did train myself in an ultra extensive way in cybersecurity. Actually in a way that is a great benefit, and for that I should be glad.
Also they were the main reason why did I use mostly the real net.
Similar true for any 14 eye: minefield.
-@sjbabilon5

There's no censorship there. 

I use the Internet in the UK all the time and nothing I've seen points to any censorship.

Everything is accessible.

Hello everyone,

This thread is going off topic.

Could you please stick to the topic, which is the cost of Living in Hungary in 2023?

If you want to discuss any other topic, feel free to start a new thread on the Hungary forum.

Cheers,

Cheryl

Expat.com team

Cost of living in Hungary (one of the main reasons to leave in the first place).

Of course voters are needed and the handouts helped to get them, still somebody has to pay (you can refer to prior posts of myself in the past).

Having said that it might for us to return (the world is full of possibilities (and I liked Hungary))

For the 7 years we lived in Hungary salary was increased 10% or so every year, all the subsidies also did not help.

For me personally cigarettes and alcohol have been important, but also the gardener (even if very good) expects more every year. When living in Hungary bread, pasta, fuel for car etc were not too important and of course we could have stayed, but the offer for our property was good and we were apparently good in timing for acquiring property in Turkey (Alanya).

Clear for me, Orban has being genereous and somebody has to pay, expats will NOT (or very limited) benefit.

Most of the subsidies will be scratched in the coming months or year. Cost of normal living is at almost at the level of Western Europe (the budget situation of Hungary is probably even worse).

Food and fuel is hurting us. We used to put 10K HUF in the car once a week. But now it's more like 20K HUF.

The electricity price jumped from about 28K HUF to around 42K HUF a month.

We have knowledge from people living on the border with Romania. Apparently there are shortages on the HU side - things like sugar and flour. But on the RO side, everything is available and cheaper than HU.  HU people on the border now go to RO to shop for basics in chain stores like Lidl.

It's not looking good.

Mrs F says the shortages are artificially created. It seems so. If everything is easily available in RO but not HU, something is wrong.

Mrs F says the shortages are artificially created. It seems so. If everything is easily available in RO but not HU, something is wrong.
-@fluffy2560

Good point.

So about the real cost also worth to mention: what can you buy and for how much?

Like sugar, the enforced price would be cc. 230 Huf for 1 kg (white - carrot) sugar.

Usually what people find is lump sugar/ grinded sugar, usually above 500 Huf/ half kg, so above 1000 Huf/ kg, so about 4X the official price.

But not only goods which fall under the regulatory price have similar practice, but stuff like washing powder as well. Sometimes the price tags are present in large shopping chains for cheaper /kg price products, but the products are missing not even empty space present which would point to the illusion there were something (maybe never were on the shelves at the first place), and what you can buy often 2-3X more expensive.

Chinese discounts are the best for chemicals commodity, often 50 - 75% the price of the large retail chains (like in washing powder, washing up liquids, paper products, etc...). Looks like they concentrate on sales instead of profits.

Mrs F says the shortages are artificially created. It seems so. If everything is easily available in RO but not HU, something is wrong.
-@fluffy2560

Good point.
So about the real cost also worth to mention: what can you buy and for how much?

Like sugar, the enforced price would be cc. 230 Huf for 1 kg (white - carrot) sugar.
Usually what people find is lump sugar/ grinded sugar, usually above 500 Huf/ half kg, so above 1000 Huf/ kg, so about 4X the official price.

But not only goods which fall under the regulatory price have similar practice, but stuff like washing powder as well. Sometimes the price tags are present in large shopping chains for cheaper /kg price products, but the products are missing not even empty space present which would point to the illusion there were something (maybe never were on the shelves at the first place), and what you can buy often 2-3X more expensive.

Chinese discounts are the best for chemicals commodity, often 50 - 75% the price of the large retail chains (like in washing powder, washing up liquids, paper products, etc...). Looks like they concentrate on sales instead of profits.
-@sjbabilon5

I looked at lidl.ro and randomly chose Lidl own-brand Millabona Cottage Cheese from their flyer for next week. The tub cost 355 HUF (4.49 RON).

I then looked at lidl.hu and the cost of a similar sized item of Cottage Cheese (Mom - non-own brand) was 799 HUF.

Hardly accurate as a test - better would be to price a basket but too much hard work. Others can do it. I suppose a more accurate test would be the price of vegetables, milk or butter - i.e. the basics.  Mrs F just paid 1300 HUF for 200g of butter in Aldi (note: smaller packet, so very much a rip off going on, even more expensive than first glance). In Lidl RO, it's about 700 HUF/250g in their flyer. Note: 250g seems to be the standard size.

So the answer is - if you are in a position to - try shopping outside the borders of HU. It's quite possible it could halve your shopping bill.

If anyone has the energy, Romanian is quite easy to understand for English speakers with knowledge of a latin language like Spanish, Italian or French. Might also be worth looking at Lidl in Austria or Slovakia. Apparently that's cheaper too.

Out of boredom, I just checked lidl.sk Slovakia and 250g butter is about 950 HUF/250g so somewhat cheaper than Aldi HU.  It's even cheaper in lidl.hr Lidl Croatia at 700 HUF/250g. BTW, there are accusations of gouging price increases in HR since they adopted the Euro. But yup, it's really much more expensive here in HU.

@cdw057 The question relates to your "experience [related to] ... the cost of living in ... Hungary; and it's for people thinking of coming here.

Nothing you wrote provides useful information. 

I found a couple of receipts dating back 8 months and thought it might be interesting for readers here on how prices have changed within HU. I noticed that there are some "seasonal" prices whose fluctuation can not be solely attributed to inflation, but I'll list them too. (NB, most of my shopping is LIDL and SPAR, I've left out the more expensive ABC, I'm also not reporting stuff that seems unchanged in 8 months, and exposing my bad eating habits)...

• Can Beans (Bondula K50 aka 0.5Kg) - was 1290, now 1359
• Shredded Cheese (Gouda) K20 - 855, was 959, now 925
• Butter, Laktomentes Spar K125 - was 419, now 709
• Philadelphia Cream Cheese K20 - was 679, went as high as 989, but perhaps on sale was 929 recently
• Milk ESL 2.8 1L0 - as low as 439, high 729, currently 699
• Sour Cream Budget 20% K45 - low of 179, went to 639, is now 659
• Greek "Real"Yoghurt 1K0 - as low as 1699, high 1899, last saw it at 1769
• Lemons K40 - seasonal? - was 699, now 799
• Frozen Pizza - Filiciana 4 Cheese K325 - was 1299, now 1499; Note others have not gone up
• Chips Lays SOS Baked - was 619 now 799
• Chips PomBar K10 - was 599- now 799
• Nutella Bisquits K193 - was 1099, now 1199
• Coke 1L5 - at its low as, 379 - now 539
• Flour - 1K0 - was 1199, now 285
• Cucumbers - seasonal? - per piece - 249 - 448
• Onions - Red K50 - from 140 to 249
• Peppers - 3 pack tricolore - 899 now 524
• Peppers, California 1K0 - was 599 now 1399
• Zucchini 1K0 - as low as 699, hit 1379, now 1299
• 
  

@Eric Hofer

Onions - Red K50 - from 140 to 249

Now: 550 - 600 Huf

I found a couple of receipts dating back 8 months and thought it might be interesting for readers here on how prices have changed within HU. I noticed that there are some "seasonal" prices whose fluctuation can not be solely attributed to inflation, but I'll list them too. (NB, most of my shopping is LIDL and SPAR, I've left out the more expensive ABC, I'm also not reporting stuff that seems unchanged in 8 months, and exposing my bad eating habits)...
...
Milk ESL 2.8 1L0 - as low as 439, high 729, currently 699


-@Eric Hofer

I've been looking at cashmap.hu recently and it seems to be relatively up to date - the 2.8% milk is still 439 HUF at Eco-Family.

If anyone has the time for it, shopping around could work quite well.  But would be offset by fuel or transport getting to these places.

I wonder if the price rises are mainly down to shortages from Ukraine, fuel price and very high HU inflation but some price stability is due to subsidy.

The cost of Taj went up. It's something like 9900 per person now.

Went to Tesco this week.

They were aksing 999 for a tiny 100 gram stick of butter.

Adli had the same size for under 450.

It pays to shop around.

Tesco wasn't very busy, they are overpricing everything.

The price for fresh green vegetables is getting high as well.

300 grams of kale for 1,000 forints at Lidl.

In the mean time the exchange rates are going down.

We probably spend under $250. per month for bills like electirc, gas, cable, health coverage and auto insurnace and the common costs of our flat.

My cousin in the US is charged $169. per month for medicare plus another $217. a month in suplimental coverage, that times 2 people is just under $800. per month just for health insurance.

I'd say overall Hungary is still reasonable if you have income from somewhere else.

Many people here do make decent money .

It must be difficult though for people with min. wage or a large family to support.

I really don't know exactly how much groceries cost per month.

We sometimes spend 20,000 or more at once and other times under 10,000 every few days.

I cook only fresh homeade meals and we eat a small breakfast and a dinner.

Sometimes I make a healthy but cheap meal and other times not.

Always have fresh soup and salad or a fresh veggies with a main course.

We hardly ever snack if we do it's fruit.

One thing we do is go to the farmers market in the outskirts from the city center. Some of the itmes are half the price of the stores. You have to look around so not to buy things that might go bad quickly .

You also have to walk the entire market and compaire prices before buying anything. Some of the vendor are greedy and charge as much a a big store without the overhead costs.

It's not easy for working people to have the time to check out these markets however.

The cost of Taj went up. It's something like 9900 per person now.
Went to Tesco this week.
They were aksing 999 for a tiny 100 gram stick of butter.
Adli had the same size for under 450.
It pays to shop around.
Tesco wasn't very busy, they are overpricing everything.
The price for fresh green vegetables is getting high as well.
300 grams of kale for 1,000 forints at Lidl.
In the mean time the exchange rates are going down.
We probably spend under $250. per month for bills like electirc, gas, cable, health coverage and auto insurnace and the common costs of our flat.
My cousin in the US is charged $169. per month for medicare plus another $217. a month in suplimental coverage, that times 2 people is just under $800. per month just for health insurance.
I'd say overall Hungary is still reasonable if you have income from somewhere else.
Many people here do make decent money .
It must be difficult though for people with min. wage or a large family to support.
I really don't know exactly how much groceries cost per month.
We sometimes spend 20,000 or more at once and other times under 10,000 every few days.
I cook only fresh homeade meals and we eat a small breakfast and a dinner.
Sometimes I make a healthy but cheap meal and other times not.
Always have fresh soup and salad or a fresh veggies with a main course.
We hardly ever snack if we do it's fruit.
One thing we do is go to the farmers market in the outskirts from the city center. Some of the itmes are half the price of the stores. You have to look around so not to buy things that might go bad quickly .
You also have to walk the entire market and compaire prices before buying anything. Some of the vendor are greedy and charge as much a a big store without the overhead costs.
It's not easy for working people to have the time to check out these markets however.
-@Marilyn Tassy

TAJ card is cheap healthcare even at 9900 HUF/month.  My MIL is using her TAJ card a lot these days with various operations on her eyes - cataracts, macular degeneration etc.  US is very much an outlier in healthcare cost terms for a "1st world" country.   My own country is even easier for medical care for those who live there - free at the point of use.  I am pretty sure for even foreign visitors, if you broke your arm with a simple fracture, they'd probably patch you up and not even ask you to pay.  Hard to say but I expect they don't bother for small stuff. 

We've had to use private services here in HU quite a few times just to get faster service than the public system. I am always kind of surprised and even feel uncomfortable to receive a bill.  Never seen a bill in the public healthcare system in the UK.

I'm in the market for some very specific US car parts.   The cost of the parts is cheap but the shipping and import duties into the EU are outrageous.  It effectively doubles the cost of the item.  So much for free trade.  I'm probably going to wait until I know I'm going somewhere with a USPS office and have it shipped there General Delivery/collection. Then I can just put the items in my suitcase to bring the parts back.  I've done it before.  I continue to be amazed that in the US, one can ship like a 5kg item 5000 miles for less than $20.  Why they cannot ship things over the Atlantic for that kind of money?

I bet butter and fresh veg is not suffering price inflation over the pond the same as here.   

You can't compare countries. I find Hungary really cheap compared to Austria. That's why a lot travel there to shop, got to the hairdressers, dentist etc....

You can't compare countries. I find Hungary really cheap compared to Austria. That's why a lot travel there to shop, got to the hairdressers, dentist etc....
-@SimCityAT

Yes, indeed, it does explain all those health places in Sopron. 

My own dentist used to go to Sopron a day or so a week and work there.

Hungary has been cheap for labour based services not involving imported goods for a long time - as you say hairdressers, dentists, builders etc.

The fall in the HUF has also made a big difference BUT materials imported have gone up quite a lot.

The cost of Taj went up. It's something like 9900 per person now.
Went to Tesco this week.
They were aksing 999 for a tiny 100 gram stick of butter.
Adli had the same size for under 450.
It pays to shop around.
Tesco wasn't very busy, they are overpricing everything.
The price for fresh green vegetables is getting high as well.
300 grams of kale for 1,000 forints at Lidl.
In the mean time the exchange rates are going down.
We probably spend under $250. per month for bills like electirc, gas, cable, health coverage and auto insurnace and the common costs of our flat.
My cousin in the US is charged $169. per month for medicare plus another $217. a month in suplimental coverage, that times 2 people is just under $800. per month just for health insurance.
I'd say overall Hungary is still reasonable if you have income from somewhere else.
Many people here do make decent money .
It must be difficult though for people with min. wage or a large family to support.
I really don't know exactly how much groceries cost per month.
We sometimes spend 20,000 or more at once and other times under 10,000 every few days.
I cook only fresh homeade meals and we eat a small breakfast and a dinner.
Sometimes I make a healthy but cheap meal and other times not.
Always have fresh soup and salad or a fresh veggies with a main course.
We hardly ever snack if we do it's fruit.
One thing we do is go to the farmers market in the outskirts from the city center. Some of the itmes are half the price of the stores. You have to look around so not to buy things that might go bad quickly .
You also have to walk the entire market and compaire prices before buying anything. Some of the vendor are greedy and charge as much a a big store without the overhead costs.
It's not easy for working people to have the time to check out these markets however.
-@Marilyn Tassy

TAJ card is cheap healthcare even at 9900 HUF/month. My MIL is using her TAJ card a lot these days with various operations on her eyes - cataracts, macular degeneration etc. US is very much an outlier in healthcare cost terms for a "1st world" country.  My own country is even easier for medical care for those who live there - free at the point of use. I am pretty sure for even foreign visitors, if you broke your arm with a simple fracture, they'd probably patch you up and not even ask you to pay. Hard to say but I expect they don't bother for small stuff.

We've had to use private services here in HU quite a few times just to get faster service than the public system. I am always kind of surprised and even feel uncomfortable to receive a bill. Never seen a bill in the public healthcare system in the UK.

I'm in the market for some very specific US car parts.  The cost of the parts is cheap but the shipping and import duties into the EU are outrageous. It effectively doubles the cost of the item. So much for free trade. I'm probably going to wait until I know I'm going somewhere with a USPS office and have it shipped there General Delivery/collection. Then I can just put the items in my suitcase to bring the parts back. I've done it before. I continue to be amazed that in the US, one can ship like a 5kg item 5000 miles for less than $20. Why they cannot ship things over the Atlantic for that kind of money?

I bet butter and fresh veg is not suffering price inflation over the pond the same as here. 
-@fluffy2560

Yes, shipping and customs fees are insane.

My son sent me 20 small vials of a suppliment from Japan. He purchased the product there on sale for $150. He paid what wuld be equal to $80. on shipping to Hungary and I was charged $50. in customs fees.

Hench to say I found another source for my suppliment.

The weight was less then 3 lbs.

I never mail order here because of the hidden charges.

Whatever we buy online has to include the shipping fee at the time of purchase or we aren't buying.

My sister sent me a letter from the US from my bank there.

I told her to register the mail and I sent her $50. to cover it.

The US post charged just under $20. and I told her to keep the change.

Well after forever and a year, with tracking we know it arrived in Hungary and went through customs after it's trip to other destinations.

It never arrived in our mail box though.

The post office here was of little value since they wouldn't investigate since we were not the senders.

I finally just called our US bank and had them mail my letter straight to me. Fee of only $5.00.

I had my sister start an investigation on her end just because we want to know what went wrong and who dropped the ball.

She sad to say never pressed the issue or asked.

The mail service here has never worked out well for us when we ship anything ourselves or have someone ship us anything. My cousin sent me a small package last year. Same old story with tracking, it went to Dubai first then customs in Budapest but never arrived or were we sent a notice to pick it up. It was returned to then US.

She is maore stubborn then my sister is and resent it. I finally got a notice many months later to pick it up at the post. Then they had the nerve to charge me $10. in customs fees.

I know the HU post was bad in the 1970's when I mailed post cards to the US and everyone recieved them 6 weeks after I had already gone back to the states.

You'd think they would of improved it since then but seems not. In fact it's worst.

You'd think they would of improved it since then but seems not. In fact it's worst.
-@Marilyn Tassy

I agree, it's actually worse than it was before.  Past 10 years, it's become weird. They used to deliver to your door but no longer.  They extort money on every package.  People are also dumb sending letters with "value" on them.  It's  bound to attract attention of the Customs and Post Office.   Just send e-mail!  Free and instant!

@Marilyn Tassy

As for deliveries that is another way to skin people.

At november I did ordered a package from the Netherlands for cc. 120 Euro.

The lie was: free EU deliveries over 100 into pickup points. There are no pickup points in Hungary.

Delivery cost DHL (only option) was 39 Euro.

I am sure they have a nice profit by putting the DHL into monopoly position in the deliveries option and they split the delivery cost between each other.

Something like business corruption/ lack of free competition.

Or just another aspects of the non-official corporate sanctions against East European countries.

Simply they use their economic power/ privilages to increase the cost of living in certain countries.

Many business feels itself in good position since the EU made it difficult to get Chinese products in Europe which were cheap and most often with free deliveries.

Also there is another hidden cost about food deliveries (and a reason why I don't use such services):

Since their lockdowns food delivery built in to the food prices, while some corporations have rule over the delivery market, and by experience they made a non-official rule: most of the employees must be:

1. Outlander/ migrant
2. Who cannot speak a word in Hungarian in Hungary

Same what started years ago in one of the sightseeing (tourist) bus company: employee must be outlander, who don't speak Hungarian, and preferably have no Caucasian ancestors.

If I remember well the politically correct term called: affirmative action.

@Marilyn Tassy
As for deliveries that is another way to skin people.

At november I did ordered a package from the Netherlands for cc. 120 Euro.
The lie was: free EU deliveries over 100 into pickup points. There are no pickup points in Hungary.
Delivery cost DHL (only option) was 39 Euro.

I am sure they have a nice profit by putting the DHL into monopoly position in the deliveries option and they split the delivery cost between each other.
Something like business corruption/ lack of free competition.
Or just another aspects of the non-official corporate sanctions against East European countries.
Simply they use their economic power/ privilages to increase the cost of living in certain countries.

Many business feels itself in good position since the EU made it difficult to get Chinese products in Europe which were cheap and most often with free deliveries.


Also there is another hidden cost about food deliveries (and a reason why I don't use such services):
Since their lockdowns food delivery built in to the food prices, while some corporations have rule over the delivery market, and by experience they made a non-official rule: most of the employees must be:

Outlander/ migrant
Who cannot speak a word in Hungarian in Hungary

Same what started years ago in one of the sightseeing (tourist) bus company: employee must be outlander, who don't speak Hungarian, and preferably have no Caucasian ancestors.
If I remember well the politically correct term called: affirmative action.
-@sjbabilon5

Any deliveries from within the EU should not have any custom chargers!

It's deliveries from outside the EU you will get charges. This rule has been in place since 1st July 2021.

Any deliveries from within the EU should not have any custom chargers!

It's deliveries from outside the EU you will get charges. This rule has been in place since 1st July 2021.
-@SimCityAT

It's not so much Customs or lack of.

It does seem to be a bit of a scam. 

If you want something inter-EU delivered to say between Austria/Germany/Switzerland, then this falls into the DACH (Deutschland-Austria-Switzerland) courier system which seems to have a flat price. 

Coming just over the border into HU, they really pile on the charges and force buyers to use courier services like DHL, Fedex or UPS.  It's like anything past Vienna or Berlin is cowboy country and might as well be on the moon.   It's quite shocking the differences.  I used to think it was ramping up charges to what they think are "risky" countries, i.e recipients might claim they never received packages, claim for new items and so on.  Now I just think it's ripping people off.

On the other hand, I do find charges from Poland, even Latvia are much more reasonable. I've never seen them adding "eco" charges on transport, nor gouging.  Somehow it's more friendly .

Since their lockdowns food delivery built in to the food prices, while some corporations have rule over the delivery market, and by experience they made a non-official rule: most of the employees must be:

Outlander/ migrant
Who cannot speak a word in Hungarian in Hungary

Same what started years ago in one of the sightseeing (tourist) bus company: employee must be outlander, who don't speak Hungarian, and preferably have no Caucasian ancestors.
If I remember well the politically correct term called: affirmative action.
-@sjbabilon5

That seems extremely racist.

In any case, drivers from other EU countries, regardless of their ethnicity are allowed to work here in Hungary. There's no affirmative action for that but there might be a job qualification to speak another language.

But I'd say driving a tour bus doesn't really need language skills. They follow a pre-programmed route and the passengers plug into their language channel to hear the commentary.

The driver has no reason to speak to anyone about anything. Or if they are required to have foreign language skills, they are more likely to need to speak English, Japanese, Mandarin, Korean etc as those are the languages the tourists speak. I don't think many Hungarian bus drivers are speaking Korean or Mandarin.

Of course, the number of Chinese people is increasing here.  They are everywhere and that's because it's O1G's policy to cosy up to dictators - high-speed railways, university islands, power stations, blah-blah.   

Coming just over the border into HU, they really pile on the charges and force buyers to use courier services like DHL, Fedex or UPS. It's like anything past Vienna or Berlin is cowboy country and might as well be on the moon.  It's quite shocking the differences. I used to think it was ramping up charges to what they think are "risky" countries, i.e recipients might claim they never received packages, claim for new items and so on. Now I just think it's ripping people off.

On the other hand, I do find charges from Poland, even Latvia are much more reasonable. I've never seen them adding "eco" charges on transport, nor gouging. Somehow it's more friendly .
-@fluffy2560

True.

On average when I order something from Germany that is about 15-20 Euro for delivery.

When I ordered my jacket from Poland that was just about 5 Euro, around the same as average delivery cost inside Hungary.

@fluffy2560

I did not talk about the bus drivers.

There are much more employee as sales person (ticket sales), or in the marked bus stops, + the ones at information stands elsewhere, similars: they are more visible in the tourist seasons on the main squares/ tourist streets.

Actually drivers: I don't know: did not seen that many which can be useful for statistics.

But:

Live guide in specialised language, like Mandarin is rare.

"Furthermore, there will either be pre-recorded audio commentary or a live guide on board sharing interesting information about the city's history, culture and landmarks."

It is usually the pre-recorded in Hungary.

First: then don't need an expensive translator-guide.

Second: Most often there are a large mix of foreign languages (tourist) on the same bus, so they choose one of their preferred pre-recorded language from up to over adozen (Audio guide in 16 languages - Red bus). It is easy because the route is quite fixed.

Anyway preferance of outlanders in most of the city bus tours exist even if lesser.

Things slighly improved recently/ more likely can be: Hamdan Zakarya a billionare from Jordan have some buddies in the government, and get larger share on the market, one of the latest since jan. 10.

So funny: we need an oligarch from abroad, who have some corrupt buddies in the government to offer more chance to employ Hungarian people in Hungary, and in case he does missteps: more easy to reach than someone in NYC/ London/ Paris.

I honestly do not think of myself as racist at all.

I am pretty open about my background and family being very diverse.

Just the other day however I asked my Hungarian husband what was up with the Wolt food delivery guy riding a bike. He was black and I wondered if he spoke Hungarian or what.

I never order food from these delivery people but if I did I'd perhaps have a question or two for them.

My husband said they will hire anyone really, they probably have a coordinater who will answer questions over the phone.

IDK.

Personally I'd like to communicate with a devilery person and ot have to hassle with a go between.

Same with a shop keeper. Can't find an item and then you feel like a fool when you ask for help and they don't know what you want.

My grandmother never learned English but she was a mother and housewife and lived in an immigarnt community.

I helped 2 refugee Hungarian women my age back in the 70's to get a good paying job working with me as an equal.

They made a few mistakes here and there with orders for customers but the rest of us helped them out when we could.

In fact one strong minded( bossy) Hungarian lady worked under me as I was the one in charge of the shift etc.

I quit and returned about a year later.

She had worked herself up and I was now working under her.

People can do more then they think they can if they have to to survive.

I also would never ordered my groceries online and wish someone to put my order together. That's not fun at all plus they won't be a pciky at what the quality is of what they chose for you.

My friend in AZ is handicapped and they live 90 mins one way from the store.

They ordered from these delivery people in the past and most of the produce was half rotten when delivered.

She's gone though so amny hassles getting her money back and then having to do without until the next delivery.

@fluffy2560
I did not talk about the bus drivers.
There are much more employee as sales person (ticket sales), or in the marked bus stops, + the ones at information stands elsewhere, similars: they are more visible in the tourist seasons on the main squares/ tourist streets.

Actually drivers: I don't know: did not seen that many which can be useful for statistics.

But:
Live guide in specialised language, like Mandarin is rare.
"Furthermore, there will either be pre-recorded audio commentary or a live guide on board sharing interesting information about the city's history, culture and landmarks."

It is usually the pre-recorded in Hungary.
First: then don't need an expensive translator-guide.
Second: Most often there are a large mix of foreign languages (tourist) on the same bus, so they choose one of their preferred pre-recorded language from up to over adozen (Audio guide in 16 languages - Red bus). It is easy because the route is quite fixed.

Anyway preferance of outlanders in most of the city bus tours exist even if lesser.
Things slighly improved recently/ more likely can be: Hamdan Zakarya a billionare from Jordan have some buddies in the government, and get larger share on the market, one of the latest since jan. 10.

So funny: we need an oligarch from abroad, who have some corrupt buddies in the government to offer more chance to employ Hungarian people in Hungary, and in case he does missteps: more easy to reach than someone in NYC/ London/ Paris.
-@sjbabilon5

I've been on those buses - not here, elsewhere and here won't be an exception.  I know how they work.

The other day,  we were driving near the Citadella and we passed a bus full of people with some guide waffling on at the front.    Looked Chinese but could have been from anywhere but definitely looked like tourists.  I doubt they were Japanese - wrong style.  I am sure it would have been in Mandarin or maybe Korean.

Unlikely to be any others from that region.