Are Colombia expats underpaying their EPS obligation?

I have a question on that. How would they know if you're underpaying or not paying at all? If I make 3K usd a month, how much should I be paying into EPS?

I have a question on that. How would they know if you're underpaying or not paying at all? If I make 3K usd a month, how much should I be paying into EPS?
-@Javier03824

A very good question. An influencer in Armenia who qualified for his pensioners visa using his social security income once said that he deposited his check into a separate bank account, in the event a visa agent during his M renewal asked for his bank statements; his potential exposure for either income taxes or EPS would be the money deposited into that account.  Of course, we know the DIAN monitors ATM withdrawls and Credit/debit card usage, so there is potential risk if you withdraw substantial money from multiple banking accounts outside of Colombia.

For many years, posters have stated that

the individual EPS obligation has been

in the 30 to 35 USD per month range,

depending on the USD-COP exchange rate.

I have seen nothing posted on this

Expat.com thread that indicates this range

is too low .. or that it merits further analysis.

cccmedia

@cccmedia

I have seen a lot, actually. And unlike you, I don't outsource everything to lawyers, accountants and facilitators.

@cccmedia
...unlike you, I don't outsource everything to lawyers, accountants and facilitators.
-@Mr. Barley

Please do not post inaccurate information or speculation about yours truly

on this site.

cccmedia

My 2023 monthly payments to my EPS are COP$135.700,00 which at today's exchange rate of COP$4117 comes out to USD$32.96, which apparently is in the ballpark (between USD$30 and USD$35, as ccmedia said).

P.S.

I am not afraid of DIAN or paying taxes to support the Petro government.

My 2023 monthly payments to my EPS are COP$135.700,00 which at today's exchange rate of COP$4117 comes out to USD$32.96, which apparently is in the ballpark (between USD$30 and USD$35, as ccmedia said).
P.S.
I am not afraid of DIAN or paying taxes to support the Petro government.
-@futuroexpat

Hypothetical:  if an expat earns 1,300 a month in social security from the U.S., which he reported on his visa (M) application at the time he applied, and it corresponds to the deposits in his bank statements he provides to his visa agent at the Cancilleria at the time of his renewal.

Based on the law as you know it, how would you calculate the expat's monthly EPS payment?. Feel free to cite and laws and link to them.

Mr. Barley, I do not know the laws and I do not know how to calculate a monthly EPS payment because my visa is M1. I don't remember having to report any USD income. When I applied I reported my Colombian income because my visa is M1. I have a Colombian pension paid in COP ("pensión por vejez") equivalent to one "salario mínimo" out of which my monthly EPS is deducted.

I don't recall my M1 visa had anything to do with USD, though my memory may fail me. As far as I know my mandatory monthly EPS payment is based on my COP income. It has been paid regularly since the last century, (which was also the last millennium), after I retired from working in Colombia.

My EPS payment was legally mandatory and automatically calculated based on my Colombian pension income of one "salario mínimo," so my income is in COP, which at the moment is gaining strength against USD.

@futuroexpat

Ok thanks. I think there are number of expats in the pipeline to get their pensioner's visa M renewed soon who are paying the minimum EPS. They should be able to share with us whether the visa agent determined that they paid the appropriate amount, and if not, why not. 

@nico peligro

For your meeting with the attorney Christoph in September, carry a printout of this article and highlight the relevant passages:

This article summarizes what was presented in a youtube video by the same tax research company. Again, for Rentistas (V) of Capital (i.e. you), the base for calculating EPS  obligation is 12.5% of IBC.

https://actualicese.com/seguridad-socia … ntes-2023/

@ Nico peligro

I doubt even Christoph would have gotten you a visa. I think it is time to give up your vested Prepagada private health insurance and accept EPS for as it is, or as it will become under Petro's health reform. I would imagine you will still be able to pay out pocket to avoid EPS, if you desire. Most expats in Ecuador pay out of pocket, although many keep the government health insurance for emergencies.

@nico peligro

Quit talking about paying EPS based on what you report on your visa application. The very nature of the work of most independents, including rentistas de captal, is that their income is often variable month to month.  This is why independientes are allowed to pay their EPS each month based on "mes vencido" (the past month). 

While you have to qualify for your rentista (V) based on projections of your passive income, there is no way in hell that number should be used for EPS payments, because we can't predict the future.

P.S. print out the articles at those two links and highlight the relevant passages, so you can refer to them when talking with the attorney Christoph in September. Maybe even make a copy for Christoph. Also, be sure to talk to Christoph about the appeals process available to you in the even the visa agent doesn't follow the law specified.

@nico peligro

Your cohort at another place  said

I think a good case can be made that the EPS contribution rate for EXPAT RETIREES should NOT incorporate pension income from foreign sources

What is that case exactly, beside the fact everyone is doing it?

Dont know anything about what the actual EPS payments for expats are supposed to be legally, or even at this point    depending on the visa type if you  even are allowed to be enrolled in EPS or are required to be on EPS with an M or R visa ( seems to change year to year), nor how much you are legally required to pay per month.

I do know that when I reappliied for my Rentista visa for the 5th or 6th time in 11 years  the cancilleria agent wanted to see my monthly planillas on the social services system for the last 12 months, and apparently , according to the visa agent (Expat Group) , it had to be based on 12% of my stated visa income  , not a measily 100 or 150 mil a month as some believe.

Whether this is just BS the Cancilleria agent pulled out of the air  or based on some obscure rule, I dont know.

Hopefully when I talk  to Langon and Chris Moeller in September  I will clear this up, but to be honest I doubt it.

It seems to me the Cancilleria agnts think themselves as gods, and can determine the rules anyway thier mood is that day, and there is nothing any lawyer or agent can do about it.

Thats why after 11 years I am looking for a more sable country to locate to.

Not to mention Colombia is getting more expensive with the recent exchange rate  so losing attraction it previously had cost wise.

@nico peligro And if your visa is based on marriage to a Colombian spouse and you are on their insurance plan what are you obligated to pay?

lpd

@nico peligro Thats why after 11 years I am looking for a more sable country to locate to.

Yana  you are not alone, What countries are you considering?

I split my time in Costa Rica, i have roots there but i spent 6 weeks in Ecuador, i am gonna go back and spend a month in Cuenca, also Mexico is the most popular with US residents, I will still keep a place near Medellin for 182 days

Thanks for all of your information

@lunamick Have you cosidered planting root in Panama? I have seriously considered retiring in Panama, just need to sway my Colombian bride to visit the country.

@Lpdiver who the heck knows?

I doubt even the best visa or healthcare lawyer will give you a straight answer.

@lunamick I am going on an exploratory trip to Argentina in August.

Panamá, Costa Rica too expensive and smalll for me.

@Mr. Barley I am not a trabador independiente working for a 3rd party,i get my income from passive invesrtment outside the country, so I have my doubts that law applies to me or any other expat,allthough the cancilleria agent was trying to pull  this on  me,and my Visa agent, the Expat Group  didnt have the experince or knowledge to fight this.

Anyway, we will. Hear what the lawyers in Medellin say in September. IF i try to get another Colombian visa , it will prabably be in the March 15 to July 15 time frame.

@lunamick Have you cosidered planting root in Panama? I have seriously considered retiring in Panama, just need to sway my Colombian bride to visit the country.
-@J L Barrera10

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.

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Panama is too hot and humid for most Expats, with the

exception of Chiriquí province.  That's an extra flight

out of PTY, so that inconvenient for most.

cccmedia

@lunamick I am going on an exploratory trip to Argentina in August.
Panamá, Costa Rica too expensive and smalll for me.
-@nico peligro

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Argentina is a beautiful country.

It has a couple of oddiities.

There is an underground market to exchange dollars for pesos.

The authorities apparently tolerate this market. Get to know

how it works from an Expat point of view as a way to combat

off-the-charts inflation.  Spoiler... La gente  crave dólares.

Dinner service and nightlife start at ridiculously late hours.

This can be frustrating for those who like to go out

in the evening but not starting during la madrugada.

Many of the balnearios (seaside resort towns) rock

during high season (December-February), then practically

turn into ghost towns for most of the year.

cccmedia

@nico peligroagree Panama too hot and expensive, I have family in Costa Rica but its to small in terms of pueblo pequeno, infierno grande,

My exwifes family is there and i like my privacy. I have alot of friends there, I was thinking Ecuador but just saw the mayor of Manta was killed in broad daylight, plus i remember the culture just didnt do it for me but i was there with my ex Paisa girlfriend so who knows solo probably would be different. Ill probably end up splitting between Colombia and Costa Rica, believe it or not, I can rent a good apartment for 600 and shop at the bourbon market lettuce was 3 for1$ and get Dorado for 3 to 4$ a pound the centro mercado. I do eventually need to check out Argentina,

I saw a comment from an expat today:

Well according to the person I had reviewing my Visa application at the Cancilleria, us expats arennt paying near enough for EPS.