Detran wanting proof what my category of DL.

nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

So first of... I'm so pissed off..
They already reviewed all my documents/did psych test and they gave me a protocolo to pick up my Driver's license.

The first time I went to pick it up... It wasn't "ready". 2nd time (total of 60 days)... Now they want a "Proof" of my Canadian license (Category 5-- unrestricted personal use vehicles) and to prove what vehicles and restrictions on my category. It doesn't actually say on my license.. it only says (Class: 5).

https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/t … types.aspx

Wtf.... After all that waiting.. err... So stupid. Anyway.

They are asking me to bring a certificate from the consulate that indicates what type of vehicle and explanation of the category from Canada or a declaration from the transit agency (ICBC in BC) recognized by the consulate or apostilled that reference the category.

"Trazer certidaó do consulado reference a categoria ou uma declaracão do orgão de transito e reconhecer pelo consulado ou apostilla de haia (reference a categoria)"

What exactly are they asking??

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abthree Brazil Expert

6453POSTS

6 years ago

This is a new one for me, but every state is a little bit different.

What they're asking for is either (1.) a certification from the Canadian Consulate that the category on your Canadian license corresponds to the category of Brazilian license that you've requested, or (2.) An official document from the Canadian licensing authority, legalized by the Brazilian Consulate responsible for your last Canadian city of residence - since for some reason, Canada isn't a party to the Apostille Convention - defining your license category, so that they can (after you provide a Sworn Translation) compare it to their own regulations.

Obviously, the Canadian Consulate route should be the easier of the two. If you're lucky, this won't be the first time they've fielded this request, and they'll be ready for it. Good luck!

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

I basically had same issue with having 3 classes on license., but agent knew class for cars just the others. He said he could do car, but would need classifications of the other two.
I knew I was not going to attempt to drive trucks here, so I just got car classification.

1 member reacted to this post

nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

I explained that I am only applying for personal use car (Class B) here in São Paulo. But they won't budge and is requiring me to get some form of certification or declaration that my Class 5 in Canada is equivalent/corresponds to Class B here.

jland912 Serial expat

884POSTS

6 years ago

When I got mine they gave me a motorcycle and car which was on my US License.

Jim

nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

That's not the case here Jim unfortunately. Thanks for your input though.

GuestPoster204 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

Hmmnn... Am I seeing this right? Detran must have table of equivalents of all countries
already. You´re not the only Canadian here. Strange to give you such a hard time.

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nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

My exact same thoughts.... I am only asking for the basic Personal use category (Categoria B)... I don't understand the fuss...

First they stamped/reviewed everything. Made me wait 2 months and then they are giving me hard hassle for these documents or proof.

I said the same thing to the workers there. And they said... "Well... Each Detran agency work differently".
Soo... Exactly why they're being jerks and have a failure of a "system"

Errr... I don't even know.. Our Canadian Consulate here in SP are of no use.. and our transit organization in BC Canada also another pain in the butt when it comes to these types of request.

What should I do in my case?

GuestPoster204 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

If your patience can go more of a distance, can you reapply at another Detran location? I
don´t know if they have specific jurisdictions though.

1 member reacted to this post

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#10

I was thinking same as Robal.
It all depends on the office. As shared before, when I arrived and received CRNM, I went to Detran and did all. Sent to clinic for tests and lady said "You must speak Portuguese". Went bank to Detran and spoke with PF agent and he said "not true" and called clinic. The lady needless to say was not pleasant with me....

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nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

#11

I just called the Canadian Consulate and miraculously they picked up. They explained that this is not part of their mandate and do not give any type of certification, declaration, letter, apostilization. They redirected me to the transit organization of the province my driver's license was issued and suggested if they do give that type of request that the Brazilian Consulate in Canada is the place/responsibility to legalize the document.

I then called ICBC and do not send out letters or request of this sort and that they have it online (Types of license) in ICBC bc...

The print out of the page that explains what Class 5 is the only thing I have. And the link I shared on my first post.. Jeez... 😣😣😣😣😣😣😣

GuestPoster204 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#12

Another way would be to seek help from a despachante (assessor do transito). They can expedite the process since they usually have connections to the local Detran. They might even be drinking buddies. It will cost you though...

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abthree Brazil Expert

6453POSTS

6 years ago

#13

robal wrote:
Another way would be to seek help from a despachante (assessor do transito). They can expedite the process since they usually have connections to the local Detran. They might even be drinking buddies. It will cost you though...

That's my suggestion, if you're convinced that there's no practical way to obtain the documents they're asking for.

"Despachante" literally means "forwarding agent", but they're actually individuals who leverage personal relationships with government employees to make this kind of bureaucratic problem go away. They used to be ubiquitous; with the increasing professionalization of the public service they've become less common, but I see that there are still despachantes who specialize in DETRAN-SP, so they're obviously still needed there. Talk to one of them, or maybe several.

It'll probably cost you several hundred reais. If someone asks for over a thousand, I'd take that as a signal that s/he is planning on paying bribes, so I'd try someone else. Unfortunately, there's no "Yelp" for despachantes: you'll need to talk to them, and go with your gut.

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nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

#14

Hi guys... I consulted 2 detran despachante here (one is considered the best which is ASA).

ASA despachante (SP):
"Boa tarde!
Infelizmente, não aceitamos serviço que já está em andamento .
Você deve concluir o serviço no Detran, conforme seu interesse inicial e cumprir todas exigências, não tem como fazer agilização"

Deschante Maricel e Corretora Seguro (SP):
"Boa tarde ... Infelizmente nao conseguimos ajudar nesses casos !"

😣😣😢😢 Trying to look for despachante who can help me ..

GuestPoster204 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#15

You should ask those despachantes if they can help you AFTER YOU WITHDRAW your application at Detran. You have to start from scratch but should point out the particular problem you´re having so they´re forewarned to take the necessary measures. Looks like the 2 are legit.

Follow that up with the same despachantes or you can look for a new one ONLY after withdrawing your filed application at Detran. You should also warn your new despachante of the same problem so as not to waste time and therefore can abandon the project ahead of time if not able.

A new despachante starting from scratch deserves a new location of Detran. Avoid the
previous Detran.

robal

nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

#16

I called Zucatto Assessoria em Documentos

They said since we've done all that has been asked....
And all their suggestion can't be fulfilled...

We should just refer to the ICBC website online "Licenses and types of license" which explains what Class 5 because this is from The "ogão de transito"..
And then have it translated by Juramentada (Sworn translator)

I am just a bit confused because on note I have to have it apostilled and Canada is not part of the convention Hague.

They also explained. They are obligated that if these steps are no-go, to give answers and what is possible to get the CNH.

abthree Brazil Expert

6453POSTS

6 years ago

#17

They probably assume that Canada -- one of the most consistent advocates of multilateralism in the world -- is a member of the Apostille Convention. I would have assumed that, too; strange that it isn't. But for some reason it's not, and that's that.

The Sworn Translation idea isn't bad. You couldn't get a website printout apostilled or legalized at a consulate anyway, so don't let that stop you. Taking the printout and the Sworn Translation to DETRAN might be enough of a fig leaf for them to release your license.

GuestPoster204 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#18

Since it´s on-line and translated by a sworn translator in Brazil, you probably don´t need an authentication which would be the Brazilian consulate or embassy in Canada.
Try presenting that first to Detran if they accept!

robal

nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

#19

Hey abthree & robal.. this is such an unecessary headache but we'll pull through hopefully and thanks for your responses/help.

We are considering both options.

Now the option to get the website translation..
I have one question and they may make a stupid fuss about it but I'm going to ask anyway.

Do I need to have the stupid print out/website be legalized in Brazilian Consulate Canada for use?
And then have it translated?

I am sure they are asking for the Canadian apostilization recognition "e reconhecer pelo consulado ou apostilacão de Hague"

2nd option:
ASA despachante: they replied and they said they can help if I cancel the current process. Only after Carnaval (as expected). Service 800 reals.

EDIT: Just saw both your responses. And I agree. If we did take this to the consulate they'll just give a smug and laugh because it's not an official document. They won't legalize a website online Link. Lol. Got it. Thanks. Will try the first option first and go from there.

GuestPoster204 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#20

nv91 wrote:
Hey abthree & robal.. this is such an unecessary headache but we'll pull through hopefully and thanks for your responses.

We are considering both options.

Now the option to get the website translation..
I have one question and they may make a stupid fuss about it but I'm going to ask anyway.

Do I need to have the stupid print out/website be legalized in Brazilian Consulate Canada for use?
And then have it translated?

I am sure they are asking for the Canadian apostilization recognition "e reconhecer pelo consuluda out apostilacão de Hague"

2nd option:
ASA despachante: they replied and they said they can help if I cancel the current process. Only after Carnaval (as expected). Service 800 reals.

There will be no apostille because Canada is not a part of the Hague Apostille Convention. Only authentication by the Brazilian consulate in Canada. Try to submit the sworn translation first if they accept. If they insist to have the document authenticated, get a power of attorney from your Canadian consulate in São Paulo and send through FedEx or any company you desire to the person who´ll execute the authentication for you. If you think the R$800 is quicker and cheaper then go for it!

robal

GuestPoster204 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#21

I also just saw your latest response. Then try first the translation... And then the despachante contingent upon Detran application withdrawal.

abthree Brazil Expert

6453POSTS

6 years ago

#22

Brazilian governmental agencies can be funny about documents, DETRAN particularly so.
When I got my driver's license, there was a momentary hiccup because the Sworn Translation of my US license wasn't authenticated. "The Sworn Translation has an electronic signature, there's nothing to authenticate" I said. "Oh, there's a cartório here in the building", the clerk replied. My husband and I looked at each other, shrugged at the non sequitur, and headed for the cartório.
A half hour, a R$12 stamp, and one bemused cartório tabelião later, everything was back on track. So it goes.

1 member reacted to this post

nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

#23

We went there again. They won't accept it. They are asking a Certidao Consular ou Certidao Qualificativa from the Canadian Consulate. Basically redirecting me back to answers, guidelines and process that I can not simply do.

Our transit organization will not provide declaration, letter... just the website link.

What exactly are they asking for from the Canadian Consulate?

Seriously... I am beyond upset.
They keep saying "The attendant keeps saying... Well... How come other Canadians are not having a hard time/are fine getting these done?"

The incompetence and beurocracy is dreadful.

They said I would have to do Autoescola if I don't get any of these.

WTF?

I'm running out of answers.

GuestPoster204 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#24

nv91 wrote:
We went there again. They won't accept it. They are asking a Certidao Consular ou Certidao Qualificativa from the Canadian Consulate. Basically redirecting me back to answers, guidelines and process that I can not simply do.

Our transit organization will not provide declaration, letter... just the website link.

What exactly are they asking for from the Canadian Consulate?

Seriously... I am beyond upset.
They keep saying "The attendant keeps saying... Well... How come other Canadians are not having a hard time/are fine getting these done?"

The incompetence and beurocracy is dreadful.

They said I would have to do Autoescola if I don't get any of these.

WTF?

I'm running out of answers.

I know it´s redundant but can you e-mail your Canadian consulate in São Paulo about the matter - if they can give a statement that you can drive an automobile in Canada with that type of license ? That seems to be a common problem so they could have already encountered that. My consulate In Porto Alegre (US) is very responsive with questions I´ve thrown at them. Can you try that again with your consulate? And how about the despachante with a DETRAN from a different location? Bring also the translated page for the despachante to use. Just brainstorming...

robal

abthree Brazil Expert

6453POSTS

6 years ago

#25

When they say that you "have to do Autoescola", could they by any chance be talking about a course they do right there at DETRAN? Here, I had to sit through a lecture course at DETRAN at 1 PM for five consecutive days. No road test, no tests of any kind, and after the last lecture, they handed us all our licenses. We were all foreign license holders.

GuestPoster204 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#26

abthree wrote:
When they say that you "have to do Autoescola", could they by any chance be talking about a course they do right there at DETRAN? Here, I had to sit through a lecture course at DETRAN at 1 PM for five consecutive days. No road test, no tests of any kind, and after the last lecture, they handed us all our licenses. We were all foreign license holders.

Nice thoughts. Go verify that NV!

nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

#27

Updates:
Went again to Armenia with a Despachante and got us to connect with the Superiors/Director in this area. They are persistent on getting a declaration or official document. We have all recordings/calls/emails of both ICBC Canada (transit organization) and Canadian Consulate here in SP. The Consulate sent an email

Good afternoon,

Por favor veja abaixo uma tradução não oficial do conteúdo do e-mail enviado anteriormente:

“Boa tarde,

Agradecemos por seu e-mail.

Em resposta à sua solicitação, gostaríamos de informar que o Consulado do Canadá e a Embaixada não emitem certidões consulares.

Geralmente recomendamos aos clientes que verifiquem junto ao DETRAN se eles aceitariam uma tradução juramentada do texto que explica a categoria mostrada na carteira de habilitação Canadense.

Lamentamos mas o Consulado não pode auxiliar nesta questão.

Atenciosamente”

Consular Section/Section Consulaire

Consulate General of Canada/ Consulat général du Canada

Av. das Nações Unidas, 12.901 16o. andar

CENU - Torre Norte

São Paulo - SP - Brazil - 04578-000

tel.: (55-11) 5509-4321

fax: (55-11) 5509-4260

E-mail: spalo-cs@international.gc.ca

site: www.brazil.gc.ca

Anyway... Detran is passing the process to DENATRAN in Brasilia.

The workers are saying we can go ahead with the process but it will be 100% they will reject the request 😭😭😭.

I don't know what else to do. But I guess I have to wait another 30 days to for DENATRAN's supposive "Rejection".

I am from British Columbia and if there's any Canadians here who can help me please pitch in. I know it varies by Provinces/States. But ICBC Canada will not comply with any form of request but an email version of my driving record/abstract that don't verify what type of vehicle I am able to operate (only list my Class:5) Also only online Link that explains what class 5 is.

To answer Abthree:
They made it clear that I would have to do the entire process from Classes, Theory, Practical, Medical and Psycotecnico....

This is so upsetting. i've hit a wall on this case.

abthree Brazil Expert

6453POSTS

6 years ago

#28

That seems crazy. Sorry that you have to go through it. But if you've taken it up to the management level and they still won't budge, you're probably out of options.
I hope that a Canadian responds with different info.

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Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#29

Carteira de motorista classe 5 ou 7

Para que você possa usá-lo:
Para dirigir carros, vans, caminhões, construção, veículos utilitários (2 eixos máximo) e motorhomes (pode exceder 2 eixos)
Para rebocar reboques ou veículos até 4.600kg
Para pilotar uma motocicleta de velocidade limitada ou um veículo de todo o terreno (ATV)
Para andar em veículos de 3 rodas, mas não inclui motocicletas de 3 rodas (trikes) ou combinações de motocicleta/sidecar
Taken from ICBC web site, translated. Do not if it will work.

https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/t … types.aspx

nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

#30

Texan: I showed this exact webpage. They won't accept it. They want an official document.

Other Canadians specifically from British Columbia.... Because other provinces run their transit agency differently.

Unfortunately ICBC can only provide this exact webpage we have presented.

Abthree: I am not sure if there's like an Immigration agency or Foreign Ministry I can bump this issue with and catch their attention. 😣😣😣

chistletoe Active member

34POSTS

6 years ago

#31

I am reminded of my father, who regularly alerted the people he dealt with of their incompetence and general inferiority.
One day he had surgery for rectal cancer. I was not in attendance but I can easily imagine things he might have said to his surgeon.
In the course of the surgery, the doctor "accidentally" cut his sphincter muscle, so that he could not hold his shit for the last 25 years of his life.

I find when I go to a foreign country that a smile and a respectful attitude open a lot of doors for me ....I am finding the bureaucracy here is Brazil to be hilarious, the waits are just as bad or worse than Maryland but everyone is friendly and having a good time ...I can deal with that .....

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nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

#32

Thanks for your input chistletoe.... Nice that you are dealing with it.. I'm certainly not handling it well.
Anyway, looking fo response/ help related to the issue/case.

abthree Brazil Expert

6453POSTS

6 years ago

#33

Wait about three months, then try at either the Aricanduva or the Guarapiranga office, the other two that DETRAN-SP shows as providing reciprocity service.

nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

#34

The process doesn't end until 1 year (I have 1 year to complete all request). Unless I cancel.

Also they transfered my whole entire process, documents and including track records of emails from Canadian Consulate SP to DENATRAN (It is supposively the Superior of Detran). which is located in Brasilia to be reviewed up to 60 days-- although the staff guranteed they will have the response to my case in 30 days and have the determined call (which they said they 100% won't accept it).

abthree Brazil Expert

6453POSTS

6 years ago

#35

nv91 wrote:
The process doesn't end until 1 year (I have 1 year to complete all request). Unless I cancel.

Also they transfered my whole entire process, documents and including track records of emails from Canadian Consulate SP to DENATRAN (It is supposively the Superior of Detran). which is located in Brasilia to be reviewed up to 60 days-- although the staff guranteed they will have the response to my case in 30 days and have the determined call (which they said they 100% won't accept it).

They may be in for a surprise. It sounds like somebody in São Paulo-Armênia got their noses out of joint -- maybe from something you said, maybe just because they were having a bad day -- and the office circled the wagons. Hang in there for 30-60 days, leave them alone, and Brasília may make it all go away. It strains credulity to think that NO Canadians ever get Brazilian drivers' licenses.

nv91 Active member

94POSTS

6 years ago

#36

I am really hoping DENATRAN (Brasilia) will see light in this situation rather than sticking it more to me for having me chase documents I simply can not obtain then just simply reject me or persist on this mission impossible.
I've been battling this issue since September 2019. Here I go for another hopeless wait.

Edit: OH wait....My partner just mentioned another important detail when they were talking with the despchante to the staffs/superiors. So another detail is that. DENATRAN (Brasilia) was actually the one that reviewed all my documents. So it looks like I am just sending it to the same courier that sent my documents back to chase after the impossible.
I believe it was officially decided by DENATRAN in Brasilia (The officiating superiors).

So even if I go to the other Detran SP locations i am no where close to any luck because it will still be reviewed by DENATRAN.

So... It looks like I am screwed from here.

GuestPoster204 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#37

I don´t have further suggestions at this time...

2 members reacted to this post

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#38

I'm tapping out also. All the time running around, you could have gone to school and had the license. Sorry. Many of us had issues in BR, and just had to follow their lead.

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Bretk Member

16POSTS

5 years ago

#39

I recently had the same exact problem, and as I read through this very long and drawn out post I was hoping that your consulate was going to be able to provide you with this all-important "Certidão do consulado referente catagoria do CNH estrangeiro", which doesn't even exist. Alas, you ran into the same stupidity I did at the US consulate in SP.

I'm not sure if I can help at this point. as it might be too late now that you've escalated this to god knows who by announcing yourself from here to Brasilia as being another whiny, impatient gringo that thinks things should work a certain way simply because they come from the first-world.

The answer was provided by robal back on Feb. 19 - reapply at another Detran. That's what I did when I realized, quickly, that trying to call consulates, and dept's of motor vehicles back in the US, would be nothing but a wild goose chase that would yield zilch, other than higher blood pressure.

I decided to just simply start over and try the Detran out at Aricanduva - my thinking was that the Detran at Armenia is too close to all the action here in the 'cosmopolitan' part of town - god knows how many dumb self-entitled gringos they have to put up with every month.
And it worked. For about a second or two, someone started looking at the difference between the class on my US license and what I was applying for here but then, thankfully, they didn't say anything and quickly moved on. They must've just assumed they were equivalent - which they are.

Don't really know what to recommend for you at this point. Someone mentioned above just laying low and staying quiet for a few months and trying again at another Detran. That sounds like your best bet - though I'd increase to 4 or 5 months.

I am surprised you got as far as you did with getting a protocolo - I didn't even get past the first counter at Armenia. Certainly I could see how frustrating that was, but, lesson learned - always plan for the worst.

I'm not sure how long you've been in Brazil, but you should be careful who you listen to on sites like this - whilst there are some good people giving out good advice, it's up to you to decipher what's going to be helpful. There's a lot of dingbats on here just throwing stuff out there just to hear themselves type - for instance: the last thing you needed in this process was a despachante.

If you haven't already, I would recommend that you read a bunch of posts by a Canadian named James. He helped a lot of people on this site, including myself, by providing responses that he knew the answers to because he knew how Brazil really worked.

And, if and when you do go to another Detran, heed chistletoe's advice closely - smiling and being genuinely nice with the people that have to work in those god-awful places will go a a very long way.

Good luck.

mberigan Serial expat

386POSTS

5 years ago

#40

It took me four years! I don't even like to think about it. This is a place where 15 years ago you could get a license if "sweetening" the deal with some offering to lubricate the bureaucratic gears. Eleven years ago I started my process by trusting an insurance agent that had been helping my family since the beginning of time. My family insisted. He promised the world. My paperwork sat on his desk for two years. My WI license expired. I had to get a new valid license back in Wisconsin to start over.

Then I went straight to the head of the local DETRAN. He was newly commissioned. I said I needed a fastrack to getting a valid Brazilian license and he was all ears. Actually, he was mostly ears and told me it was easy and that legally I was entitled to a license. Seems he loved that I was in his office every month (phone calls were unanswered) talking about most anything and getting the standard promise, "Venha ver mês que vem pois vai estar pronto."

FINALLY I got to take that very very strange "psicotécnico" test which somehow shows that one has the mental capacity to responsibly drive a car - yeah, right. Give Roberto DaMatta's "Fé em Deus e pé na tábua: Ou como e por que o trânsito enlouquece no Brasil" a read. But everything ended up approved and I started a new cycle of going every month to GET my new approved license and heard the same, "Venha ver mês que vem pois vai estar pronto."

I finally cornered the head of the local Detran and was told I needed to go get my license in the capital city because they were causing the problem. So I went and was told, "Venha ver mês que vem pois vai estar pronto," but I didn't take their advice. Instead I walked into the head of that DETRAN office and sat in a chair and said I wasn't moving until this got resolved.

I know I pushed the wrong button right away and I got the stern but smiley "Favor de esperar aqui na sala de espera e a gente resolve já." Four hours. They were pulling my chain so I had to get ugly again and they relented, well, they told me that a) "those idiots back in your city don't know what they are doing" b) I had to choose my auto versus my motorcycle privileges and c) I'd have to surrender my WI license BUT ceding to these demands they'd print my license.

Dang! Losing the right to drive a motorcycle seemed harsh and I figured that my license would become somebody else's valuable forged ID BUT I DID IT and they printed my license. Four years for something that should have been so easy.

Then I went to driver's school for my motorcycle license, added that to my license and have yet to use it. What, you think I feel safe on city streets without a cage around me?!?!?

Life in Brazil - not for beginners!

MattB

PS - I always seemed to get stopped at "blitzes" before I got my regular license. I always whipped out my WI license and they always sent me along because they had no clue how to deal with a gringo carrying a foreign document. After getting the Brazilian CNH I never again was stopped.

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