Moving from UK to Switzerland- taxes and work permit

@say61amq

I cant answer you on the taxes aspect but I recommend you to contact directly the taxation office in Geneva to address such complex questions. They may transfer you around but you ll end up getting the right employee knowledgeable on the matter. Just Google impots geneve for a generic number. On the permit question normally a permit is valid for all Switzerland,  doesn't matter where you had it issued. But I would consider twice moving to vaud and working in Geneva due to the very heavy traffic in between.

Aha thanks for letting me know. regarding living in

@Ibtihel76

Aha thanks for letting me know. regarding living in vaud, considering nyon or gland, and will take public transpirtation (40 mins around to work), this should be okay or would you still advice getting something with Geneva? was trying to save a bit on rent and also find a decent public school for my 6 year old.

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

I'm not a tax-advisor, what follows is a summary of what I've picked up from many years on this Forum.

Where you are assessed for taxes is largely decided by where you are deemed as being resident in the tax year, so if you are in the UK for more than 183 days between Apr > Mar, HMRC will assess you for taxes on your world-wide income (note - assess does not necessarily mean pay).  You need to watch out in case the Swiss tax year follows the system in place in most countries (Jan > Dec).

There are tax treaties in place between the UK and Switzerland, this link will take you to the UK Gov website where they are all listed (with links).  Such treaties normally deal with things like double taxation agreements, pensions and business taxes.

I know the square root of nothing about the Swiss tax system, in general, the thing to watch out for are things like social taxes; if your tax affairs are complicated, then my advice is to speak to a tax-advisor to make sure you are not caught out, but perhaps more importantly, that you are benefitting from any tax-breaks that may be available.

I hope this helps.

Cynic

Expat Team

@Cynic thanks,  appreciate it :-)

@say61amq

Well the issue is that train are full due to the many people commuting and if your work is not close to the train station, you ll loose lots of time in buses and trams in Geneva too. Decent schools are found everywhere. The point is more that it is extremely hard to find a flat all around leman lake and even more in Geneva, so you need a relocation agent and sponsorship from your work. As your kid is still young I would favor to pay the extra money for a home close to work whenever possible.  For the taxes you don't need to spend in a tax consultant honestly, just call the office and ask them. Tax consultants are very expensive here, unless you have the money to pay someone to do your taxes. The non double taxation means that you won't be charged twice. so normally you should submit all income made in the UK under your UK taxation and then all income made in Switzerland under your swiss taxation. check the gov.uk website  seeking Switzerland and UK double taxation how does it apply. you ll better adress your question on that forum.

@Ibtihel76 thanks for the  very very helpful info and much appreciated.

can  i also ask you a couple more questions-

1. was randomly checking the price of meat, seams very expensive (compared to London)! ive seen people discussing buying from france once a week, is this something you do and advise? Not sure about the limit on whether its 0.5kg or 1 kg per person. if its 3 of us travelling, 2 adults and one 6 year old, do i get the allowance for 3 people or just 2?
2. i have a RHD car in the UK, fully paid, only issue is it has a heavy engine (V8), is it worth brining the car along or selling in the uk and buying LHD in Switzerland. the UK used car market is not doing well at the moment, so will lose a lot if selling at current price point. Swiss used car market still seems to hold up value, prices are a lot more.

For question 1, France is cheaper for meat if you buy large amounts but those will be over your customs allowance, being on 2 or 3 people. However cars are not always checked at customs, this is what people count on. In general prices have increased so much anyway that it is not worth do do the trip just to buy, usually people nowadays take the opportunity to do a visit to France to make purchases at the same time.

For question 2 I am not sure I fully understand your dilema. Switzerland used market has no interest in RHD car, you won't be able to sell it unless for a ridiculous price for export in Africa. On the other hand our used car market is very good at the moment of purchase, people keep their cars in good conditions and sell it cheap. You d better check the immatriculation fee before buying any car because if you have kids and have to take a big non electrical car like me, you can end up paying over 700chf for 6 months period  just to get your plates.

@Ibtihel76 thank you very much, youve been very helpful! Basically heres a bit more on my car- i have a bmw M6 gran coupe, purchased 9 months ago.. really big powerful v8 and really like rue car. little did i know that id be moving in 9 months time 😅  basically cant buy fie same car there, it

costs ridiculously more! for ref, its around £28k in the UK from the main dealer and same car costs like 45-55k CHF same specs! If i bring it along, no customs duty for me as owned over 6 months, but i agree with your point, i cant sell it there and also emissions taxes, etc will cost a lot to run it locally + i assume insurance on a RHD will be

more.

I'd say that if you earn enough to buy yourself a brand new BMW, then you shouldn't worry on your previous questions and just put the money into having a nice home close to work even if the rent is steep (and take the tax accountant to help you with your taxes costs around 2000 to 5000chf to do a professional accountability, you can get as cheap as 200chf but that is for individuals with simple declaration and with unregistered services). That will allow you also to have a garage which is also costly and hard to find depending on where you live. Or even 2 garages, one to keep your BMW unimmatriculated waiting many months till you find an hypothetic buyer and one to park your new car. I dont know where you get your quotes on the used market. Basically you have 2 ways to sell, through a dealer that will sell expensive and give you a percentage, or directly on marketplace. Try yourself to go on facebook marketplace, put geneva as a location and see the prices for sale (again all for LHD, why would someone in Switzerland buy RHD???) or place the add already to see what replies you get. I can see an add of someone in St-Sulpice looking for BMW M6 car for max 20000chf here

[link moderated], some BMW being sold at 10000chf [link moderated]  but you'll have to check yourself and double the cost if you need to have it pass their registration tests. I think you'll got into so much hassle trying to sell here while starting a new job and a new life that you're better off selling in the UK, especially in case you have cash flow problems. Then about buying the same in Switzerland, if you are calculating the taxes and all maybe it shows you that you may not want to run such a car especially if you have kids. On the other hand you may find some deals on these type of cars with embassies reselling theirs, you'd have to contact them directly one by one. You also have options to take contract cars for rent, maybe less hassle if you have the money. I can't help you much on this because I am on the lower price market, my old mitshubishi only cost me 4000chf on marketplace. Anyway, not sure if this site allows whatsap otherwise I can give you my number if you have more questions on settling. My main advice is place your energy into finding a home because that can take people without high budget and sponsor up to 2 years to get (and sometimes never), so if you have enough for high rent, sponsor and taking a relocation agent, you should focus your energy into checking their proposals and simulating your daily routine from there rather than on car sales questions. 

@Ibtihel76 thanks mate, some very helpful tips indeed. i will look into selling tue car in the UK. Its an old 2014 car BMW which i purchased recently, not new by any means 😁.

Re accommodation, ive heard it takes a while. the Company has arranged a relocation agent and mover for me and will cover both, they have not been in touch with me yet. They will also get me an apartment during my first month. i am not sure if i should be doing the apartment search now and making a couple of trips to geneva to do some viewings on the weekend or that 1 month should be enough to sort out the accommodation. i do have a full time contract and company said they will write my landlord references, not sure whether all of this will make my search a lot easier.

Yes the landlord reference is absolutely necessary. The speed in which you get your home depends on the skills of the agency (usually through preferred relationships with real estate companies) and the money you can spend on your home. Unless you are wealthy and with toppest services, I don't think finding in less than 3 months is realistic. So yes if you have never been in Geneva, you should at least make 1 trip before to see where your job is located and identify at least the suburbs in which you would like to narrow down your search. If you were alone, you could take the risk that your 1 month temporary accomodation extend but with family and school this is very painful, public school is entirely linked to your home address. You are lucky they pay for the relocation agent, ask for their name and ask them an estimate into finding a home based on your budget and requirements and plan your number of Geneva trips based on that.   Then they can either find you a home which entry date is in 3  months (for people informing in advance), or they can tell you that they get most home releases with 1 month notice. In any case that doesn't prevent you to do a visit to Geneva to get more knowledgeable on the subburbs, public transportation, school and activity and I would recommend to do another when it is not summertime as life is very different in winter. UK-GVA trips are cheap so no reason to save on them. You can use tripadvisor to find cheap accomodation for your trips (to book plenty in advance). Many people end up living in France to reduce costs, get a house instead of a flat and do commuting but this is another very long question...

@say61amq

Hello,

1a. « Do I simply not declare and pay no UK tax for my Swiss employment income for the rest of the Uk tax year (sept to March 25) as my Swiss income will be taxed at source and, UK and Switzerland has a double tax treaty? »

Yes. Any employment income is exclusively taxed by the country where you work (art. 15 § 1 double taxation treaty CH-UK). The taxation at source is only the tax collection mode. This does not affect the determination of the country which will tax, in accordance with the double taxation treaty.

1b. « Or do I declare the Swiss income in that years' self assessment and claim tax credits for taxes paid in Switzerland ? ».

You don't pay the tax twice. I do not know the UK tax law. Swiss income may have to be declared on your last UK tax declaration, only to calculate the tax rate (not the amount, the rate in % which will be applied to your British income for the first part of the year). I'm not sure how it work in UK. This is allowed anyway by art. 22 § 6 of the double taxation treaty, but I dont know if you really have to declare anything after the date of your departure to Switzerland. I dont think so.

1c. « Do I end up paying UK tax on the Swiss income for 24/25 as UK rates are higher than Swiss tax rates? »

Absolutely not.

2. « In Uk, if l'm taxed at a certain higher threshold rate from April 24 to August 24 as it was assumed that I'll be here for the whole tax year, do I get a refund on my Uk tax when I do a self assessment for the year? »

I dont know the British declaration system, but I dont think you have to pay taxes for any income after you left UK. This seem illogical to me. But UK... :-)

3. « In my Swiss tax self assessment, do I declare my Uk rental income and taxes paid (then ask for a tax credit) which is taxed in the UK and filed via the self assessment ? »

Article 6 of the double taxation treaty UK-CH provides that you pay your taxes on rental income in England only.

On the other hand, as you have a building in England, you will be under the mandatory Swiss regime of « Taxation ordinaire ultérieure TOU ». So, in addition to your taxation at source for your employment income, you will have to declare your fortune (in Switzerland and abroad) and pay tax on it in Switzerland. Fortune tax is another tax than the income tax, not covered by the double incoming treaty CH-UK. It is cheap. You can deduct your UK mortgage and all other debts you may have.

4. « On a separate note, the job offer is for a full time permanent position, being a British national, I assume I will have the 5 year work permit B? With this permit type (issued from Geneva), can I stay in the canton of Vaud? »

Because of Brexit, there is no longer an automatic delivery of permits to British nationals. There is a contingent of 3,500 permits per year. Your future employer must request the B permit from your future canton of domicile (with your future address where you are going to live).

If you move from a place in Geneva to another in Vaud after your arrival, this is not a problem. There is a change of address form that you will fill out yourself : it has no effect on your B permit. You have 14 days to announce the change of address. 1 day late = fine of Frs 100... be my guest.

Fun fact, I'll pass my International and comparative tax law exams tomorrow morning at the University. Wish me best luck !

Best regards,

Daniel