Foreign prejudice against people born in Bulgaria

In regards to this topic, one big difference between the UK and Bulgaria is the size of the Roma population. In the UK, it's teeny, a fraction of 1% of the population. Here in Bulgaria, it's MUCH higher, at least 5%, but maybe 10% or more. Bulgarian Turks are another sizable minority close to 10%. Both of these groups are - from what I've observed - quite widely looked down on by ethnic Bulgarians, and many will make very derogatory/racist comments about them with no embarrassment at all.

Maybe it's not as bad as the UK's infamous "No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs" of the 50s... but it still seems pretty retrograde to (most) modern sensibilities. (Indeed, the article below refers to this as an "anachronistic lack of progress".)

This article is not the most recent, but it's a very interesting discussion on Bulgaria's Roma (and it's a lot more objective than many of us posting here)

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-eu … -bulgaria/

The supposedly-ubiquitous "No Dogs..etc" notices of the 1950s UK never actually existed; the only one recorded was actually mocked up for an "Irish Experience" exhibition in London in the 1980s. But why ruin a perfectly good chip on the shoulder story with the truth, begorrah!

I wouldn't say that Bulgarian Turks are looked down on per se but it's true that they're mostly regarded as simple, mostly rural, folk who work hard and mind their own business. Given the history between the Bulgarians and Turkish "settlers" during the centuries of Ottoman oppression, I think it's safe to say that there's no real bad blood nowadays. Personally, I was somewhat surprised by this: I well remember a visit to Kardzhali a few years ago when we decided to stop for what I hoped would be a typically delicious Turkish dinner. We picked a large restaurant which looked promising but which turned out to have an extensive menu of rubbish food. The cherry on the tart was the fact that none of the friendly staff could speak a word of Bulgarian; eventually one of the cooks was dragged out of the kitchen to translate but it transpired that her command of Bulgarian was about on a par with mine when I first arrived here 20 years ago... so it's not just the Brit "expats" who can't be bothered to make an effort to integrate!

As for Open democracy, it's a left-wing organisation devoted to finding things to justify its own existence, so the chances of finding anything actually unbiased there are as likely as Donald Trump telling the truth about anything...

@JimJ

I think most folks know it's apocryphal... but it's pretty emblematic of the racism that existed in post-war Britain. Perhaps you remember Britain as having always been open and welcoming to all, but I certainly can't see why you feel this is in any way indicative of a "chip on the shoulder".

@gwynj

My throwaway comment about the chip on the shoulder referred to the thought process behind the specially-created sign for the Irish Experience exhibition; the Oirish always seem to have a rather resentful view of Blighty - can't imagine why, but I imagine that the naming of the centre I mentioned might offer a clue....

    The supposedly-ubiquitous "No Dogs..etc" notices of the 1950s UK never actually existed; the only one recorded was actually mocked up for an "Irish Experience" exhibition in London in the 1980s. But why ruin a perfectly good chip on the shoulder story with the truth, begorrah! -@JimJ

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56246848

Sorry, what was that?

I tend to find people with shaky arguments rely on one thing to 'prove' their point, but totally ignore the rest.

I fully recall anti Irish/Gypsy feeling right into the 80s. It seems at least one holiday camp kept that alive.

Hello everyone,

This thread is getting a lot of attention, both positive and negative, not only from members of the Bulgaria forum but also from other destinations.

Recently, there have been instances where some interactions have deviated from the principles outlined in our code of conduct. While we understand that diverse opinions are inevitable in any community, I urge each and every one of you to reflect on the impact of your words and actions before posting.

Thank you

Bhavna

        The supposedly-ubiquitous "No Dogs..etc" notices of the 1950s UK never actually existed; the only one recorded was actually mocked up for an "Irish Experience" exhibition in London in the 1980s. But why ruin a perfectly good chip on the shoulder story with the truth, begorrah! -@JimJ

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56246848

Sorry, what was that?
I tend to find people with shaky arguments rely on one thing to 'prove' their point, but totally ignore the rest.
I fully recall anti Irish/Gypsy feeling right into the 80s. It seems at least one holiday camp kept that alive.
   

    -@Fred

No-one's denying that such feelings existed in the UK, and when it comes to "travellers" still does. Here isn't really the place to discuss to what extent it might be regarded as justified.

However my comment concerned the (non-) existence of the signs mentioned, not the animus behind them - and it might behove you to heed your own advice rather than indulge in transparent attempts at whataboutery...

Nailed there jimj "Foreign Exceptionalism" like reverse xenophobia janemulbery said. A proper twisted way of thinking if you ask me. Foreigners on computers dissing the natives of this country they never even met. Bleeding perversion of the mind that is.

Gypsies in this village been here  years way longer than any of us lot. This is their country and I am the foreigner theyve been nothing but proper nice and welcoming to me.

Ones down the street too I cant ask for better neighbours. All about how you treat each other up my way not the colour of your skin.

Gypsies in this village been here  years way longer than any of us lot. This is their country and I am the foreigner theyve been nothing but proper nice and welcoming to me.    -@mickeyhart

I do admit to a little girly giggle when I see a racist foreigner who doesn't realise they are the immigrant trying to change the country they moved to.

I tend to see them as well educated, verbally articulate, upstanding members of the community - just like the fine gentlemen in this video

https://youtu.be/gE2OzGfIDLQ?feature=shared

@Fred

Watched your link. Well there's an intelligent lad!!! 🙄

I wonder if there's a corresponding clip somewhere of the Loony Left equivalent of that fine specimen. From my recollection of the rabid and nonsensical pronouncements of the various warring factions of the Marxist-Leninist students at the universities I attended, being supposedly educated and articulate didn't stop them coming across as just as stupid and I've seen no evidence since that anything's changed in that respect.

I'd certainly agree with @Fred that it's annoying to see foreigners trying to change their host country to be more like the one they left behind, often because they couldn't make it there. I do wonder though if in his eyes that only applies to Anglophone immigrants in countries other than the UK? Or is it allowable if it's intended to achieve International Socialism?

Those with left-wing beliefs need to remember that Bulgaria is one of the countries that was "lucky" enough to discover just what their political fantasies actually mean when put into practice in the real world - decades of misery, oppression and murder....followed by more of the same when the "ex-Communists" stole every state asset with impunity.

I doubt Bulgaria will every fully recover from the social, financial and commercial catastrophes inflicted on it by Socialism.....

    I wonder if there's a corresponding clip somewhere of the Loony Left equivalent of that fine specimen.

    -@JimJ

Very probably.

I don't engage in party politics, but I do enjoy watching politics.

That particular video is an especially good example of how total and utter morons spout whatever rubbish their likely drunken friends vomit out. He is also a first class example of how a weak mind will believe any old rubbish.

Much as I haven't looked for videos of ultra left idiots talking about immigration, I have seen the odd ones on other subjects. However, much as they are at least equally cretinous, they aren't talking about immigration and getting on with the locals.

One point everyone should note.

I'm politically neutral, but that doesn't mean I want extremist crap of any sort on this lovely forum.

Don't assume my distaste for racism is some sort of tacit nod to left wing ideals - Only fools assume that.

Yes, I believe that you made the same point in the past elsewhere - and more than once. However, claiming - and even believing - that one is "politically neutral" doesn't make it so; intellectual confusion often arises/increases with age but words and actions usually speak for themselves. In the real world, facts and experience take precedence over misty-eyed idealism and airy-fairy theories, however well meaning the intention and irrespective of what disingenuous labels some might like to bandy about in an attempt to muddy the water.

There are many kinds of fools in the world, and I'm sure that there's a niche in there for all of us....