Cultural differences between Vietnam and the West?

Dear me, it's good topic for a multi-volume encyclopaedia on cross-cultural understanding. This thread could go on FOREVER once it gets going.

Now that I have more time let me get the ball rolling.

Goals=
Here it seems they is either never a goal in life. That or it is one that can be achieved in the next few hours.
Whereas in the West we have long term global life goals. Then we have minor goals under that global goal etc. And the achieve those goals we have milestones.
Here it seems to be just helter-skelter and hope we make it.

Time=
Is there such a thing as time her? If there is does it mean anything? If they are coming at 2 pm , does that mean they will be there at 2 pm today, tomorrow, next week, or ever?
In the West we take time commitments seriously for the most part. If we say we will be there at 2 pm we will arrive shortly before 2pm.

Agreements=
Is there such a thing as a commitment to an agreement, be it verbal of contractual here? As of yet I have never found any that stand the test of time. Once the ink is dry or the conversation ends the agreement ends and can and will be violated, renegotiated, or nothing at all. That has been the case with marriage commitments, housing leases, building contractors, gold course memberships and on and on.
In the West we are not only morally obligated to agreements , but in most case legally obligated.

Female dominate family=
Here it has been my experience that the female dominates everything in the family environment . And in my opinion has more responsibility than any one person should ever be able to accomplish. If the plumbing needs repair it is the wife who does it. It is the wife who controls the money, raises the children etc.
In the West if anything the male is the dominate one. But even then in most households opinions are shared , and decisions made jointly, unilaterally . Yes, if no agreement can be made the man will be the tie breaker , if you will.

And let's not forget superstition and family elder influence, which are very important here.

Superstition examples:
1. My VN wife wouldn't let me paint any wall of our house white when we built it. Nor will she buy me a white shirt, because in VN white is the color of mourning. 
2. My wife's favourite cousin, son of her least favourite aunt, wanted to marry a lovely young lady from Hanoi, but both his parents refused for four years, because the cousin was born in the Year of the Tiger and his wife to be was born in the Year of the Tiger, which was deemed to be 'incompatible'. 
3. A friend had to redesign his bathroom plans so that the bathroom mirror would not reflect their image as people entered the room. My wife is unable to explain this superstition.

A pregnant mom eating out of a large bowl will have a child with a big mouth.
Immediately after giving birth mom is given cotton to stuff in her ears to keep away the evil wind gods.
Mom is not to go outside the house for 3 months after giving birth.

ralphnhatrang wrote:

Superstition examples:
1. My VN wife wouldn't let me paint any wall of our house white when we built it. Nor will she buy me a white shirt, because in VN white is the color of mourning.

Stark white should be avoided, not because of mourning, but also because of the name (ghost white).  However, eggshell, ivory, vanilla, baby powder, China white, winter white, old lace, ecru, cream, linen white, etc. are perfectly fine to use, wear, and own.

ralphnhatrang wrote:

2. My wife's favourite cousin, son of her least favourite aunt, wanted to marry a lovely young lady from Hanoi, but both his parents refused for four years, because the cousin was born in the Year of the Tiger and his wife to be was born in the Year of the Tiger, which was deemed to be 'incompatible'.

It's not superstition that made the parents refusing the marriage.  It's the astrology and horoscope, the combination that holds an almost ruling role in Chinese and Vietnamese societies.  It's considered a science, not a layman belief.  To be called "learned" in astrology and horoscope, one needs to study the subject for years, if not decades, or even a lifetime.   

In the subject of compatibility in marriage (or any serious relationship, such as business partnership, governmental cabinets, etc.), there's a principle called "Tam Hợp - Tứ Hành Xung" (Three in Congeniality - Four in Conflict).  A person's characters are determined at birth by the combination of hour, day, month, and year of birth (it sounds strange, but it's really not.  However, we don't have the time or space to expound that part right now). 

Simply speaking, three combinations of birth years that play well together are:
Snake/Rooster/Ox;
Monkey/Rat/Dragon;
Tiger/Horse/Dog;
Pig/Ram/Goat.

Conflict will almost certainly happen when these four combinations of birth years are being placed together:
Tiger/Monkey/Snake/Pig;
Dragon/Dog/Ox/Goat;
Rat/Horse/Ram/Rooster.

There are other factors involved such as the hour, day, and month of birth, but we'll just stop at the years for now. 

The parents simply exercised caution when they refused the match.  The couple may prove to be compatible in spite of their birth years, but it's a rare case when that happened.

ralphnhatrang wrote:

3. A friend had to redesign his bathroom plans so that the bathroom mirror would not reflect their image as people entered the room. My wife is unable to explain this superstition.

It's not good feng shui when a mirror reflects:

doors and windows
bed
toilet seat
flames in the kitchens
another mirror
arrows or sharp corners

In your friend's case, a mirror outside of the bathroom door would help pushing energy away from entering the bathroom, thus prevented it from going down the drain.

Feng Shui has been proven not a superstition but a chart of life harmony.  It's involved in very aspect of Asian life, society, and business.  For instance, the designs, shapes, and heights of all buildings that created the skyline of Hong Kong are influenced by feng shui.  Several times in the city's recent history, skyscrapers were altered to bring in good feng shui or lessen bad feng shui that it created to adjacent buildings

Ciambella wrote:

In your friend's case, a mirror outside of the bathroom door would help pushing the energy away from entering the bathroom, thus prevented it from going down the drain.

Nominated for best comment yet.   

Do not ask questions of a storekeeper if your the first customer of the day without buying....,.or else it will bring bad luck and they get quite angry. Question is how does one know they are the first. I don't think it is bad luck but the attitude towards a customer. Every store that has done that to me I never return.

Lack of courtesy with fellow man. These people just can not wait their turn in line. It just drives me nuts. In a bank, at the hospital, the grocery store they always crowd in and will even interrupt your transaction like your not even standing there.

Diazo wrote:

Lack of courtesy with fellow man. These people just can not wait their turn in line. It just drives me nuts. In a bank, at the hospital, the grocery store they always crowd in and will even interrupt your transaction like your not even standing there.

That's an Asian trait, shown in all countries except Japan.

Diazo wrote:

A pregnant mom eating out of a large bowl will have a child with a big mouth.
Immediately after giving birth mom is given cotton to stuff in her ears to keep away the evil wind gods.
Mom is not to go outside the house for 3 months after giving birth.

The first two, I haven't heard, but the last one was not because of superstition. 

The belief is that a new mother would need 3 months to restore her health, and the infant is too susceptible to germs to be exposed to the world at large before 3 months.  That's not a bad idea actually, if one can afford the care and expense involved.

Diazo wrote:

Do not ask questions of a storekeeper if your the first customer of the day without buying....,.or else it will bring bad luck and they get quite angry. Question is how does one know they are the first. I don't think it is bad luck but the attitude towards a customer. Every store that has done that to me I never return.

First-footing is a superstition that has been around for centuries in Asia.  The first transaction of the day is supposed to determine how the rest of the day business would turn out.  If I didn't plan to purchase but only to browse, I would ask before entering a store in the morning (before 10:30) whether I were the first customer.  Q&A is fine as long as the non-purchase customer don't cross the threshold.

First footer (of the year to one's residence) is also a very important tradition not just in Asia but also in the UK and Greece.

First footer (of the year to one's business) is always planned ahead with the customer and purchase carefully picked out, so random customers would never find themselves bringing bad luck to the store for the whole year.

The certainly is no basis in fact that a mother is not capable of being out of the home after birth or is to weak. And there certainly is no basis for an infant to avoid germs etc. Ineed the contrary is true. The more germs and bacteria they are the exposed to the faster there immune system developes. Moreover, if a mother breast feeds the infant gets the immunities in the mothers system. But you are correct this is exactly what they think. But then to they do not realize your red blood cells are replaced every 90. They also feel that a cold is caused by, you got it, azcokd and not a virus. And many of the so called doctors here are no better informed.
  But it will take time and a better education system to make them aware of so many things.

Ciambella wrote:

Diazo wrote:

Lack of courtesy with fellow man. These people just can not wait their turn in line. It just drives me nuts. In a bank, at the hospital, the grocery store they always crowd in and will even interrupt your transaction like your not even standing there.

That's an Asian trait, shown in all countries except Japan.

Thats really disappointing isn't it.    You see it every day , common courtesy & decency goes out the window.     Apart from the pushing & shoving like wild animals, have a look at the "blank" look in their eyes.  It's as though some of them are in a trance.

You also notice it when large groups gather for any reason.  They seem to get that same "look" . My lady friend here is well educated,  mature and IMO level headed, but still goes into that "mode" when groups gather . Sometimes she doesn't even know what everyone's looking at.  They just stop and stare .   

GHOSTS?.........whooooo.   So many people here believe in ghosts.   Actually Yogi is starting to think there could be more to it.    A foreigner died in Yogi's building.    A week later they called Ghost Busters.
For $7 these blokes arrive in track suits & goggles and spray this mist everywhere , and another bloke carrys burning leaves in a tin and does a little dance in the dead guys apartment.   It apparently drives away the bad spirits.

Anyway...Yogi was watching the Tennis when these blokes arrived, and they wanted the building evacuated while this procedure took place ....about 15 mins.    I told them they'd all lost their marbles and to piss off .    ENd result......the ghost is still there, and Yogi is getting blamed for the botched exorcism.

That $7 is another story.......stay tuned.

When I was a young girl, exorcism was done by monks.  In my teens, the monks were replaced by middle-aged women in very vibrant coloured outfits adorned with lots of fake bling, chanting and swaying while trying to connect with the afterlife (this was a cult that dated back to the 4th century, IIRC).  Never men in track suits and goggles though.  Those men probably tried to emulate the Ghostbusters team.

Sorry, correction:
2. My wife's favourite cousin, son of her least favourite aunt, wanted to marry a lovely young lady from Hanoi, but both his parents refused for four years, because the cousin was born in the Year of the Tiger and his wife to be was born in the Year of the SNAKE [vice 'Tiger' ]which was deemed to be 'incompatible'.

#11 - "Do not ask questions of a storekeeper if your the first customer of the day without buying....,.or else it will bring bad luck and they get quite angry. "

A friend of mine encountered exactly this situation. He also has never been back.

@Ralph: Tiger/Monkey/Snake/Pig: one of the four combinations that would more than likely end in conflict.

Are they still not married to one another?

A A good example of a cultural difference; 
#9 - "Feng Shui has been proven not a superstition but a chart of life harmony.  It's involved in very aspect of Asian life, society, and business."

You believe it is not superstition, I believe it is.
My good wife paid MILLIONS of dong to have a feng shui man do a reading of our house plans before builing. His report went on for pages and pages with very nice handwriting and coloured pencil drawings. I read it carefully and explained to my wife, "This man has done an assessment of a house in Nha Trang, not a house in Dien An village where we live. He has not taken in to account that we get both sea breezes and evening gully breezes off the mountains. He has placed the kitchen windows exactly where I don't want them, because in winter we get strong north winds  ... etc, etc."  The useless report was consigned to the house files and never referred to again.

Her indoors was to attend a business meeting and got dressed in a smart suit for the occasion. When the lift arrived at our floor a heavily pregnant lady got out. Her indoors immediately returned to our apartment got undressed, showered, donned fresh clothes and off she went again.

Two weeks ago there was a bereavement in the next street. I know the son of the deceased vaguely so went to pay my respects, pray with joss sticks and to stick 200,000 Dong in the collection box.

On returning home, Her indoors burned paper outside the house and I had to step over it 7 times before being allowed back in the house.

Now for some strange stuff:

When my ex wife's father (a lovely bloke) died suddenly of a heart attack, I went round to comfort mum in law. They had been married for 30 odd years.  The house was filled with a strong smell of sweat. It wasn't mum in law, or the ex or me. But it persisted in every room.

It didn't matter how much we cleaned it sprayed deodorant about, the smell persisted. It lasted about 3 weeks and was very strong.

I mentioned to a mate who dabbles in the occult, who said simply: "the deceased is afraid to move on".

After three weeks the smell gradually faded and had gone by the time another two weeks had passed. That was in the UK.

Here in 'Nam, Her indoors mum called her one morning and said that her husband who had passed away a couple of years before, had come to her in a dream and said that he needed his old army shirt to go to an "army day". I kid you not.

The whole family turned their houses upside down looking for the army shirt. It was found and duly burned by the side of the grave.

A couple of days later mum called again and said that the old man had come to her in a dream again and said "thanks for the shirt, but I also need the rank slides that go on the epaulettes - he had been an NVA Colonel.

They couldn't be found. Mum told us that he had come to her yet again in a dream and told her that the rank slides were in a white container that Her indoors had given him some years before.

Her indoors wracked her brain but couldn't remember giving her old man a "white container". Time was passing and army day was near.

Suddenly early one morning, Her indoors woke me with a poke in the ribs and said "I know where they are".

Where what are? I asked.

The badges of rank, she said. Called her mum and rabbited on the phone for a bit.

Later on she told me that a few years before she had given the old man a pocket first aid kit in a zip up white plastic wallet with a Red Cross on it.

A search ensued and the first aid kit was found and in it were the rank badges.

Last year my very close mate Brian died in Thailand. Brian was a scientist, a chemist and an expert on explosive gasses who had worked for a company that made gas detectors for the space shuttle.

I received a Skype message early one morning from Brian's Thai wife to say that that he had died the night before and I set about contacting people that we (Brian and I) both knew.

Whilst I was busy online spreading the bad news, I saw a movement on my desk and watched in bemusement as a roll of insulating tape slid all the way along my desk top and fell on the floor with a thud. It didn't roll off the desk, it slid off the desk. All by itself.

The only thing I could think of was to say "ok Brian, God speed and take care on your journey".

Her indoors didn't find it at all unusual.

And, don't forget that today is apparently devil day in Vietnam.

Ralf.... yes indeed! My wife had some woman come to the apartment as we were moving in, to read the chicken bones or whatever it is that they do.

She told us that there were three levels of chicken bone shaking each more expensive that the last. I told my wife that the whole thing was bollux. But, she's Vietnamese.....

After wandering about and mumbling a bit the woman told my wife that there was "a blackness" in the house and we would have to pay for the next level of chicken bone shaking to dispel it.

I had to go outside as I was laughing so much and told my wife to throw the woman out of the apartment.

My wife was about to pay the woman for the advanced bollux when I suggested that she call her mate who is a court judge and ask for her opinion.

The judge told her to throw the woman out of the house.

Superstition is a more interesting topic than Cultural Differences, good thread hijack. I collect these things.

@Ciambella - thank you for your explanations, keep em coming!

However, assuming you are Asian? note that most westerners will cast a wider net around what is considered "superstition". Personally I consider
- Supernatural stories superstition (ghosts, devils, etc)
- Astrology and horoscope are superstition
- Feng shui is superstition
- Alien visits from space is superstition
And as an atheist, all religion, the rituals, prayer, is superstition, based on ancient stories that can't be proven.

Asian ancestor worship is a nice thing, shows respect and all. But burning fake $100 bills and feeding fruit to altars, is superstition.

I don't mean to contradict you, Ciambella, just noting common western perspective! 

Ok,now  my recent superstition experience:
My wife and I were in Crescent Mall and there was a bill on the floor, 2000d I think. Somebody had dropped it. My wife grabbed my arm and said Don't pick it up. Because if you pick up money, you will lose more later.
Ok I said, and we stood to the side and watched...
It wasn't crowded, one group walked by and maybe didn't notice.
Then an old man walked up and stopped dead in his tracks. He looked down for at least 3 seconds, then decided to risk financial ruin.

Amazing to me, in a Vietnamese-derived-from-Chinese culture, that anyone would avoid free money. Now there is a cultural difference. I'll have to go to D5 and D8 and try that on the sidewalk.

Ciambella wrote:

When I was a young girl, exorcism was done by monks.  In my teens, the monks were replaced by middle-aged women in very vibrant coloured outfits adorned with lots of fake bling, chanting and swaying while trying to connect with the afterlife (this was a cult that dated back to the 4th century, IIRC).  Never men in track suits and goggles though.  Those men probably tried to emulate the Ghostbusters team.

G'day Ms Ciambella,
I really enjoy reading your posts.   It's good to see some input from the "other side" ie , the female view of things which generally is close to the mark.

By the way...that woman you mentioned above .   Do you recall where you saw her,,she sounds like one of my Ex-wives going thru her midlife crises.    If it was...I can assure you that "bling" wasn't fake. 😳

Diazo wrote:

The certainly is no basis in fact that a mother is not capable of being out of the home after birth or is to weak. And there certainly is no basis for an infant to avoid germs etc. Ineed the contrary is true.

What you say is true but you may be unaware that before about the 1980's most mothers in the US were expected to follow about the same routine.  A one week stay in the maternity hospital was standard.  Now if you have your baby before lunch they will expect you out the next day.  A lot more is know now about immunity than even some 40-50 years ago.  Vietnam may be still a little behind but I will be surprised if that does not change soon.

Diazo wrote:

And many of the so called doctors here are no better informed.

To the contrary, I think a lot of Vietnamese doctors are remarkably well informed about world wide trends in medicine.  Their advice will gradually change this custom.

gobot wrote:

Asian ancestor worship is a nice thing, shows respect and all. But burning fake $100 bills and feeding fruit to altars, is superstition.

I don't think I would call it superstitious but I always felt that the use of fake American money in particular was a bit ironic, especially when the deceased was VC like my deceased father-in-law.  I mentioned this to my wife once as we were leaving the graveyard.  She laughed briefly but told me "quiet-never mind" not wanting to upset anyone else in the family.

#41 - in reply.  Yes, they married after four years, are still married after fourteen years and recently had their second child.

While I can not agree at all that the doctors here are competent most assuredly even at that they will help advance the knowledge of anantomy and biology and many other human factors. That is if they would only take the time to comment nicate to those they serve. But they act much of the time that they are above God. Then their patients are so unedcucated and lack trust in anyone it will be an uphill battle. But having been around medicine much of my life I can assure you most are very lacking. Indeed, I have not had an encounter with them tgat I have not had to argue a point or prove with writtens facts. But it can only get better.

eodmatt wrote:

Her indoors didn't find it at all unusual.

I don't either.  Love the story.

This incidence happened between the States and Europe, not in Vietnam, and everyone in the story, except me, are British.  None of them believes in anything that cannot be proven by science.

Spouse had a heart attack in 2005 while we were living in Italy.  He flat-lined 5 times.  On the 5th time, he saw his life drained out of him and a sense of contentment and peace washed over him.  He was on his way out of this world.  The docs brought him back, thankfully.

At the exact moment 6500 miles away in Southern CA, his brother and sis-in-law were watching TV in the family home in the house where they grew up.  Out of the corner of sis-in-law's eye, she saw my spouse walking from his old bedroom to the bathroom.  She nudged her husband, "Honey, C is here. Something happens to him."

I rang them from Italy two hours later to let them know of the heart attack.  The timing matched.  He came home, somehow, during the minutes his spirit left his body, before the docs brought him back.

BTW, what does "her indoors" mean?

ralphnhatrang wrote:

#41 - in reply.  Yes, they married after four years, are still married after fourteen years and recently had their second child.

Cool beans.  I hope that shook up the parents' belief a bit.

Ciambella wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

Her indoors didn't find it at all unusual.

I don't either.  Love the story.

This incidence happened between the States and Europe, not in Vietnam, and everyone in the story, except me, are British.  None of them believes in anything that cannot be proven by science.

Spouse had a heart attack in 2005 while we were living in Italy.  He flat-lined 5 times.  On the 5th time, he saw his life drained out of him and a sense of contentment and peace washed over him.  He was on his way out of this world.  The docs brought him back, thankfully.

At the exact moment 6500 miles away in Southern CA, his brother and sis-in-law were watching TV in the family home in the house where they grew up.  Out of the corner of sis-in-law's eye, she saw my spouse walking from his old bedroom to the bathroom.  She nudged her husband, "Honey, C is here. Something happens to him."

I rang them from Italy two hours later to let them know of the heart attack.  The timing matched.  He came home, somehow, during the minutes his spirit left his body, before the docs brought him back.

BTW, what does "her indoors" mean?

"Her indoors" is a very old Cockney term of great respect, usually said in soft, almost reverential  tones, with a lowering of the eyes, when referring to The Lady of The House or Wife.

gobot wrote:

I don't mean to contradict you, Ciambella, just noting common western perspective! 
Amazing to me, in a Vietnamese-derived-from-Chinese culture, that anyone would avoid free money.

It's perfectly fine for everyone to contradict me, Gobot, since I contradict myself every so often and sometimes I even notice it!      

I don't know whether I'm not superstitious or just randomly believe/disbelieve whatever convenient at the moment.  I don't fear Friday the 13th or the number 666.  I don't have any problem walking under a ladder, spilling salt, breaking a mirror, crossing path with a black cat on Hallow's Eve, opening an umbrella in the house, stepping on cracks, etc. 

However, I would always avoid bad things and plan for good things to happen on the first of the year (Tet, not New Year) so good things can happen all year long.  I think feng shui can be good even though don't practice it at all, but if ever comes a time when my marriage is in disharmony (crossed fingers  ), I'll probably move our bed to a better position, just in case.

Oh, and I would definitely pick up any money on the ground.  I've always picked up pennies, so there's no reason not to do so with paper money, however worthless they are.

Yes, I was born and raised here but left after college.  Since I've lived in the States and Europe for twice the years I spent in this country, I'm not sure what I am.

Oh, and I definitely believe in ghosts.  Saw them and heard them many, many times between the age of 3 and 16 here in Saigon (various locations).  Haven't seen any of them since then though.  They're probably fed up with me when I was going through my rebellious years, and just moved on to a more peaceful person.

Ciambella wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

Her indoors didn't find it at all unusual.

I don't either.  Love the story.

This incidence happened between the States and Europe, not in Vietnam, and everyone in the story, except me, are British.  None of them believes in anything that cannot be proven by science.

Spouse had a heart attack in 2005 while we were living in Italy.  He flat-lined 5 times.  On the 5th time, he saw his life drained out of him and a sense of contentment and peace washed over him.  He was on his way out of this world.  The docs brought him back, thankfully.

At the exact moment 6500 miles away in Southern CA, his brother and sis-in-law were watching TV in the family home in the house where they grew up.  Out of the corner of sis-in-law's eye, she saw my spouse walking from his old bedroom to the bathroom.  She nudged her husband, "Honey, C is here. Something happens to him."

I rang them from Italy two hours later to let them know of the heart attack.  The timing matched.  He came home, somehow, during the minutes his spirit left his body, before the docs brought him back.

BTW, what does "her indoors" mean?

I was thinking about the experience of your husband going home, whilst flatlining and have to say that, call it what you will, superstition, coincidence, idiomatic occurrence, whatever, the fact is that countless people have  experienced similar things happening.

Back in the middle ages when I was a Corporal in the army, I was guard commander one night at Invicta Park Barracks, near Maidstone, Kent, UK.  About 23:00 hours (that's 11PM to civilians) the gate guard called me on the radio to say that there was a man at the gate in a very distressed condition. I jogged over to the gate, having alerted the guard to be extra watchful as we were undergoing a period of threats of violence from the IRA at that time (it was about 1974).

I got to the gate and there was a car parked there and the driver was talking earnestly to the gate guard. I noted that he was shaking and appeared to be in shock. I asked him what was wrong. He told me that he had been driving along the old road from Chatham to Maidstone, which is a very torturously winding road and a very steep bit called Bluebell Hill. On coming over the brow of the hill he rounded a sharp bend and a young girl  - he said maybe 20 years old, in a white dress dashed out from the right hand side of the road immediately in front of him. He had no chance to stop or avoid her and he felt the impact at the front go his car and immediately felt the car run over her body.

By now I was calling the police on our special link.

The man went on with his story and said that he had done an emergency stop and gone to the front of his car to find no damage. No blood. There should have been a body either under his car or immediately behind it. There was nothing.

That area is a very lonely and eerie place, but he walked up and down both sides of the road looking for signs of someone injured, or blood - anything. But there was nothing. He kept saying "BUT I FELT THE IMPACT........"

I checked his vehicle and there was no sign of impact.

The police arrived and went back with him to the scene of the "accident". There was no trace of a victim. The car driver got taken to hospital and treated for shock. The two policemen came to the guardroom with me for a cup of tea and to write up their notes of the incident and one of them said to me "We sometimes get this happening at this time of year".

Apparently it used to be a fairly regular occurrence. There is a bypass there now and the old road is rarely used.

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/n … ncounters/

It seems to me that there is cultural difference as well in they way they raise their children here and the way many in the West do. Here is seems they raise them in a "Cocoon". Protecting them from most of life. I rarely see children outdoors here playing. And as they get older they seems so maladjusted. In have tried to teach many Vietnamese children English with their parents present. The parents will never allow the child to say a word. When I stop the parents from providing the answers the children just freeze up and begin to cry, afraid they will say something wrong. Children are very limited in what they know how to do.Even as they become adults and are in jobs they can not think on their own.
Whereas in the West we see our parental duty as begioing to teach the bird to ply from the nest one day. My infant child here is not allowed to get on the floor and roam.As a result he is developmentally arrested. I try to teach his mom about small motor skills and gross motor skils and she thinks I am a nut case and throws the toys away. This being my first child, and something I dreamed for my entire life it is so disappointing to see this happen to him. I had every intention of having him go to university in my country. I intended to home school him. But now I can not even be with him because his mother thinks I will steal him. So I get to see him for an hour a week, locked in a room with a padlock and can only play with him in a way approved by his mom. Which is nothing like we play with children in my country.

eodmatt wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

Her indoors didn't find it at all unusual.

I don't either.  Love the story.

This incidence happened between the States and Europe, not in Vietnam, and everyone in the story, except me, are British.  None of them believes in anything that cannot be proven by science.

Spouse had a heart attack in 2005 while we were living in Italy.  He flat-lined 5 times.  On the 5th time, he saw his life drained out of him and a sense of contentment and peace washed over him.  He was on his way out of this world.  The docs brought him back, thankfully.

At the exact moment 6500 miles away in Southern CA, his brother and sis-in-law were watching TV in the family home in the house where they grew up.  Out of the corner of sis-in-law's eye, she saw my spouse walking from his old bedroom to the bathroom.  She nudged her husband, "Honey, C is here. Something happens to him."

I rang them from Italy two hours later to let them know of the heart attack.  The timing matched.  He came home, somehow, during the minutes his spirit left his body, before the docs brought him back.

BTW, what does "her indoors" mean?

I was thinking about the experience of your husband going home, whilst flatlining and have to say that, call it what you will, superstition, coincidence, idiomatic occurrence, whatever, the fact is that countless people have  experienced similar things happening.

Back in the middle ages when I was a Corporal in the army, I was guard commander one night at Invicta Park Barracks, near Maidstone, Kent, UK.  About 23:00 hours (that's 11PM to civilians) the gate guard called me on the radio to say that there was a man at the gate in a very distressed condition. I jogged over to the gate, having alerted the guard to be extra watchful as we were undergoing a period of threats of violence from the IRA at that time (it was about 1974).

I got to the gate and there was a car parked there and the driver was talking earnestly to the gate guard. I noted that he was shaking and appeared to be in shock. I asked him what was wrong. He told me that he had been driving along the old road from Chatham to Maidstone, which is a very torturously winding road and a very steep bit called Bluebell Hill. On coming over the brow of the hill he rounded a sharp bend and a young girl  - he said maybe 20 years old, in a white dress dashed out from the right hand side of the road immediately in front of him. He had no chance to stop or avoid her and he felt the impact at the front go his car and immediately felt the car run over her body.

By now I was calling the police on our special link.

The man went on with his story and said that he had done an emergency stop and gone to the front of his car to find no damage. No blood. There should have been a body either under his car or immediately behind it. There was nothing.

That area is a very lonely and eerie place, but he walked up and down both sides of the road looking for signs of someone injured, or blood - anything. But there was nothing. He kept saying "BUT I FELT THE IMPACT........"

I checked his vehicle and there was no sign of impact.

The police arrived and went back with him to the scene of the "accident". There was no trace of a victim. The car driver got taken to hospital and treated for shock. The two policemen came to the guardroom with me for a cup of tea and to write up their notes of the incident and one of them said to me "We sometimes get this happening at this time of year".

Apparently it used to be a fairly regular occurrence. There is a bypass there now and the old road is rarely used.

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/n … ncounters/

A friend of mine who was a long distance truck driver in Australia had the same thing happen to him driving across the Nullabor, which is an extremely desolate road. Its about 200 klms between fuel stations and nothing in between. One night in the early hours of the morning, he saw two guys suddenly appear standing in the middle of the road. He ran over both of them with his semi, he even heard their bodies hitting up under the trailer.He stopped up the road to check the truck and not a single drop of blood or any marks could be found.

It freaked him right out, but not as much as the pink elephants he saw after taking too many uppers.

Ciambella wrote:

Yes, I was born and raised here but left after college.  Since I've lived in the States and Europe for twice the years I spent in this country, I'm not sure what I am.

That is easy, HCM II. 

I apologise for being off-topec, but since we are on to ghost stories, here's my favourite:
While chatting to another Australian tourist in Bali, he said he saw a male ghost sleeping on the other bed in his room , so he asked the hotel staff to get in another room. "Oh," came the answer, "he doesn't normally bother foreigners."