Cultural differences between Vietnam and the West?

@Diazo

I suspect that most of the useful discussion on these aspects of today's Vietnam is pretty well covered. So, I'd like to drop back to a Vietnamese people from a thousand years or so ago.

To set the stage, while the various military forces involved in the Vietnamese War and the large cities like Saigon were definitely 20th Century, in large parts of Vietnam, such as the Cambodian Border region of the Mekong Delta, the actual life style of the ordinary person, like my wife, seemed not to have changed that much from a thousand years ago.

What really brought this to mind, was an upper division English Literature seminar where we discussed the Witches in Shakespeare's Macbeth. The instructor, started the discussion by stating that Macbeth's Witches were obviously symbolic as no one actually believed that Witches could be real. I pointed out that I had spent years in Vietnam, spoke Vietnamese, and from my experience with the Vietnamese that I knew in Vietnam, the average Vietnamese farmer out in the country absolutely believed in the existence of Spirits, Ghosts, Demons and various other Monsters.

I then pointed out that historically it was very well documented that these beliefs were still widely believed until fairly recently in America and Europe and that many Westerners still believe in these entities. The first half(and my favorite part) of my wife's book does give some insight into the Vietnamese lifestyle in her time and place as well as glimpses that go back to the Vietnamese that lived a thousand years ago. Even in today's Vietnam, the existence of Spirits, Ghosts, Demons and various other Monsters is still to some extent, part of the Vietnamese culture.

Just look back at the ancient history of Vietnam. They were very strongly influenced by the Chinese civilization sometime even in those BC period. The concept of 'face' is a very Chinese thing - it means to give someone a platform to cling on to, when they bungled either in speech or in action that they can make a quick escape. No need to point out that mistake and hammer the poor bugger t o death!

Taking responsibility for your actions is a definite no-no in VN.

@Diazo, it's my experience when 2 cultures mix by a marriage, one culture WILL have to dominate! There in lies the real challenge and without compromise, this leads to conflicts constantly..

@LSP123
  We discussed Thai very issue before we married. As I understood it we both realized it would be a very difficult issue that would require compromise on both sides. I have tried to approach it from a pragmatic point of view. Trying to focus on what is the best for all involved when it comes to those issues were we must bend. But some seem to be totally wrong nwiing to bend. I will give you two examples. On is my child going to school in Vietnam. I consider it important for manifold reasons. But there is little I can lend to the matter then my full support to my wife and child to make sure it happens. While in the other hand I think it is best for my child to get his university education in the USA. This requires he get a good primary education. Which he can not get in a Vietnamese school. So I intended to home school him. This way he would be assured of being able to matriculate to US university. My wife agreed to all this until he was born. Now he can. It even get his US citizenship or there rights to my retirement. To me this seems fool hearty. I ask myself...  who benefits..... and who is harmed. Our child. His citizenship does me no good at all. The fact that they are both entitled to a portion of my retirement could benefit all now. But upon my passing would be a good income for her . But she will not have a bar of it. I do want him to learn the cultural customs here. I want him to learn that family unit here.  I could go on and on. But then too, he is an American also. I think it would be great for him to learn both sides of his heritage. But my argument is not winning the day. In the end life goes on. Only so much worry and fighting one can do. But I get your point.

@ LSP123
  Your point that one WILL be dominate is very good and I think very valid. But when you have the cultures of a third world country clashing with the culture of a more advanced culture which one dominates. Is it better to stay in the past or move to the future. Is it best to get the best medical care or inferior care of the past. Is it best to get the best education, or revert to outdated   Inadequate education. Is it best to teach your child the lif sciences or to leave him wondering how his body works.
  It is this that I struggle with so much. I know a doctor is wrong. Do I let the cultural norms prevail or step in for my families safety or health. Do I need invest in real estate here when it is far better for my family and safer to get the yield of owning real estate in my country. Do I carry my infant on a motorbike with no helmet because the culture says it is okay, or take him in a taxi because I can afford to protect him. These cause huge disagreements. Do I, or do I not get his vaccinations. Herd they fear them. Not easy for me to change noronise on some of those things.

Another difference between Vietnam (and other parts of Asia, too) and the West is that people here will tell you what they think you want to hear, rather than the truth.

@ ralphNt

Boy that is an understatement . Another one, not in the same vain, but really confuses Western men. That is when every young women you meet tells you how handsome you are. Men take it the wrong way and they are just trying to be pleasant. But I run into what your saying on almost a daily basis.

LSP123 wrote:

@Diazo, it's my experience when 2 cultures mix by a marriage, one culture WILL have to dominate! There in lies the real challenge and without compromise, this leads to conflicts constantly..

Interesting point and my wife has spent slightly more than half her life in America. She was 21 when we evacuated Saigon 18 April 1975 and I doubt that she has spent more than a total of 10 years in Post War Vietnam, probably less. She did learn the American outlook. But, despite my occasionally teasingly accusing her of turning into a round eyed American broad, she maintained a mostly Vietnamese outlook. Note, she accused me of being Vietnamese in retaliation.

Mostly we tend to slide into what ever culture is more appropriate though the fact that our culture is more mish-mash than anything else does show through. The shared war and military experience is also a very big issue.

Accountability for actions is a foreign concept. Its much easier to blame others, the traffic, the weather anything else than to admit to a mistake and thus letting others see that I am incompetent.

The work culture is risk adverse and would rather remain third rate in thoughts and action. Why bother so much, if I do more, I do not get paid more! So why bother to think about solutions to problems and just get by and receive my salary by the month.
And also, if I do come out with a solution, then that is THE ONLY solution and everyone else is Wrong!

Work is a matter of getting chances to socialize and see how to benefit wholly my objectives. Western world teaches that a company expects its employees to meet company's objectives and how what you do does contribute towards such objectives - for growth, better efficiencies etc.

So, when you recruit, scrutinize what background they were from. If its a local company, such an attitude will prevail and expect to carry through.
Last but not least, the big C is the real problem. If China still cannot solve that, although it is trying hard, what makes you think VN can??

@70yearold
Yes, for adults. I was about to say for me the cultural differences okay such a small roll in my own life. This being my 69 country and nevecluving in the USA much as an adult ( a year or two). But this is the first time I had to plug it into a child's future. I certainly had always assumed my child would have the opportunity to have a better life than I have had. Just tears me apart that that may never be the case. For me to think I sentenced him to this just kills me. Yes, and you can tell me no one here wants to immigrate to the West and lives it here. But my child had choices. Now those are gone it seems.
  But for me life is the same no matter where I gang my hate. I get frustrated at times here , but I get more frustrated in America.

Yes, and I was around and witnessed first hand the big C. Much of what you see today evolves fro that thinking. There was not such a word as quality. It was against the law to tip.
  So you bring up a very very valid point. But this will take decades upon decades to evolve. So we are back to the " out of the cave theory" I spoke of earlier. But the presence of multinationals and the Mc Donald's of the world will expose them to some.
  Then to we can do a lot in our daily actions to show them things. Just today two ladies blew a spark plug on there motorbike as I was getting ready to head to the airport. I stopped to help them and access the problem. Then I pushed their motorbike to the mechanic for them. Everyone was in shock.
  Then I arrived at the airport and had the opportunity to help a mom with baby in arm carry her luggage and get her seated and her luggage stowed. Forty or fifty years of this will, I think show them kindness and courtesy is not that painful.

@LSP123
  Boy you bring up such a great point about big C . You know back then no one trusted anyone. You just could not. The system worked by you informing on everyone. That is the only way you could get a little extra for your family. I find people here so distrustful. Perhaps it is still that same carryover. The same as quality in the workplace, or something built to last more than 30 days. Interesting!

One suggestion that I would make for a better chance at a happy marriage is to never marry someone whose language you don't speak. If two people can both speak each other's language, it sure reduces misunderstandings.

Not sure if you were here when Acientvwas around. But he thought it was bliss to have one who did not speak the same language. He claimed he never KNEW them to have an argument. I think he probably just assumed she was saying please pass the rice. I have dated women that did not speak English, it was far easier than my wife who speaks English. But I would think, as you tgat it would not be so good. Indeed, I never wanted to go down that path. Then I got tired of eating alone and took a few up. We got by and it was quite nice. Thirty years of it though.....? Hun I think I am having a heart attack.... you say it is cold in here....  no damnit I am having a heart attack. I get your point!!!!

Diazo wrote:

From my experience with it, they simply can not realize they made a mistake , apologize, and move on. I have seen two different ways in which they deal with it. One) They simply let the issue die a natural death w/o discussing it. This may take months, and eventually the ice thaws in the relationship, and all begin speaking to each other again . Two) They craft an elaborate web of lies that take away all blame for their part in the issue.

@ Darwin123
  Glad you found out what was going on and were able to move on. I will too, just wish it would not have affected an innocent child. Good luck to you.

Yes, I agree on "One".
On "Two" I can partly agree.

She couldnt or didnt want to realize that she did something wrong. After we got to know each other more, it was better, but as soon as she was angry, she fell back into the "old" habbits. Also, if we talked about a topic which we solved and later again, she "forgot" that conversation.

About half a year after we met the first time, I made a white lie to her. After that, I could hear every time when she was angry that Im a liar. We talked about it and I pointed out a white lie that she made. Similar to mine. She didnt admit it at all and said Im a liar.

I wish I could say I moved on, but actually I still love that crazy girl... Im just not keeping my hope up anymore and that helps a lot.

70 years old wrote:

@Diazo

I suspect that most of the useful discussion on these aspects of today's Vietnam is pretty well covered. So, I'd like to drop back to a Vietnamese people from a thousand years or so ago.

To set the stage, while the various military forces involved in the Vietnamese War and the large cities like Saigon were definitely 20th Century, in large parts of Vietnam, such as the Cambodian Border region of the Mekong Delta, the actual life style of the ordinary person, like my wife, seemed not to have changed that much from a thousand years ago.

What really brought this to mind, was an upper division English Literature seminar where we discussed the Witches in Shakespeare's Macbeth. The instructor, started the discussion by stating that Macbeth's Witches were obviously symbolic as no one actually believed that Witches could be real. I pointed out that I had spent years in Vietnam, spoke Vietnamese, and from my experience with the Vietnamese that I knew in Vietnam, the average Vietnamese farmer out in the country absolutely believed in the existence of Spirits, Ghosts, Demons and various other Monsters.

I then pointed out that historically it was very well documented that these beliefs were still widely believed until fairly recently in America and Europe and that many Westerners still believe in these entities. The first half(and my favorite part) of my wife's book does give some insight into the Vietnamese lifestyle in her time and place as well as glimpses that go back to the Vietnamese that lived a thousand years ago. Even in today's Vietnam, the existence of Spirits, Ghosts, Demons and various other Monsters is still to some extent, part of the Vietnamese culture.

My bold. And in fact, in Shakespeare's day, witches were a part of every day life, as witness the trial of the Witches of Pendle Hill, which took place in 1612, only six years after Macbeth first hit the stage and after which a number of the witches were hanged (12 I think). At the time that Shakespeare was writing Macbeth, the King of England, King James who was  fascinated with contemporary necromancy that he wrote a book on the subject entitled Daemonologie.

So whilst Shakespeare's witches could well have been symbolic in the play, the fears that they aroused in the audience were well founded in the culture of those times, because belief in the power of witches to do evil was widespread then.

Darwin123
  My experience has been they are wired that way here. Now there are others who have had great experiences. Some from different generation. And maybe that matters. I do not know. It just has driven me crazy. I spend more time trying to figure her out than enjoying life.
  I doubt we ever let go. At least when you lived the person but just can not tell crept tgei behaviors. I must say since we separated my life has returned to normal. I can now have friends. I get invited to birthday parties and wedding and CAN EVEN go if I wish . Many people are trying to help me learn Vietnamese and I can speak more now than I ever could. My wife would never help me with a Vietnamese word. Keep your chin up bud!

Hmm, I wouldnt generalize it.

I met her friend one time and she helped me a lot afterwards.
Basically, she said that my ex is crazy and if she wouldnt be her friend, she would tell me to run away.

Darwin123 wrote:

Hmm, I wouldnt generalize it.

I met her friend one time and she helped me a lot afterwards.
Basically, she said that my ex is crazy and if she wouldnt be her friend, she would tell me to run away.

And I think thats sound advice!

There was a time not long ago where women were dropping like flies here. For some unexplained reason new moms were dying. No one could understand why. They finally had to bring someone in from outside the country to find out the cause. At the time it was the cultural custom for new moms to make sure they stayed warm. So they burned charcoal under their beds at night. Carbon monoxide ensued and settles at bout one meter above the floor. So all these women were being killed staying safe and warm. To think in HCM or most of the South of VN that anyone would need to say warm.
  But when my child was born my wife just new he was going to turn into a popsicle and die. Although his room had a thermometer installed and was always within the recommended temp. He was bundled in 3 sets of clothing and swaddled at night. But still she knew he would freeze. I had a floor standing halogen space heater. I saw that she had it in the nursery and on. I told her it was not needed. She insisted. So I let it go, ut was concerned. She just did not seem like she bought into any of this. So after a few hours I woke up to go check out the situation. She had placed the halogen heater about 6 inches fro his face. He looked like he was in distress. So I immediately took his temp and it was at 105 f. I grabbed him up and with clothes still on both of us stood in a cold shower to bring his temp down. She could not understand still. I explained to her that permanent brain damage begins at 106 and death shortly thereafter. She was having no part of it and still felt the baby might freeze. Hard to educate these people.

My brothers gf told both my brother and myself, that the WHO knew nothing and the family doctor in D5 knew best.  She also informed us that foreigners didn't care for their kids, and only Vietnamese knew how to care for children properly.Giving her parental advice ceased from that day forward.

Oh I have heard the same thing.  Not long ago I was quickly informed that Vietnamese people are the best in the world at raising children. I was shocked. They will dismiss science no matter where it comes from, unless it comes from here. Unteachable! Quite sad really. My son is fed a steady diet of avocados and rice. Give them ingo on the 3 food groups and the recommended diet, and they say hogwash.  Hep-A, does not exist here, polio, not a problem, no need to vaccinate. Drives me nuts.

I was at the airport in Sai Gon last night standing in a long line at tge security check point. The entire time I was there I was playing with a little Vietnames child who was with its parents and grandma. We played all sorts off games. I was talking to the child like Donald Duck and the child was laughing and really amused at my abilities. Then out of no where the child started crying. Grandma picked the child up and bolted to the front of the security check point, past the guards and running into the terminal. All the while screaming her head off. It seemed at me. Security goes chasing after her. She refuses to get back in line because of the crazy man going to eat her grandchild. Very protective folks. In the West I suspect most people would have taken the opportunity to teach the child some sort of lesson, other than bolting scared to deaths through security. I know I would have tried to calm the child down and let them know everything was okay. Gosh people are going to run into situations they are not use to.

What happened to Ciambella. She had such greag insight into this subject. I guess she bolted when the ghost paid the thread a visit.

Diazo wrote:

Oh I have heard the same thing.  Not long ago I was quickly informed that Vietnamese people are the best in the world at raising children. I was shocked. They will dismiss science no matter where it comes from, unless it comes from here. Unteachable! Quite sad really. My son is fed a steady diet of avocados and rice. Give them ingo on the 3 food groups and the recommended diet, and they say hogwash.  Hep-A, does not exist here, polio, not a problem, no need to vaccinate. Drives me nuts.

My neighbour here was diagnosed with high blood pressure and his doctor advised him not to eat "vegetables that grow fast" !

Diazo wrote:

What happened to Ciambella. She had such greag insight into this subject. I guess she bolted when the ghost paid the thread a visit.

Ghosts don't scare me, Diazo, but this thread does.    Too many bizarre stories showing a way of life that is so dissimilar to the one I knew, making me wonder whether I'm living in the same country.

Granted, I don't know much about raising children in VN or the Vietnamese way, but I've seen tons of relatives who did and still do.  None of the children/grandchildren were wrapped in cotton wool and protected from every imaginable evil of the world.

I simply don't understand the drastic change in Vietnamese people's minds and common sense in the last 40+ years.  Does this happen to most people or only some, I'm asking myself and I don't have the answer.

I can guarantee you that unteachable and unchangeable were not the characteristics of Vietnamese people once upon a time.  Since it seems to be the case now, based on what I'm reading on these forums, the only explanation I can come up with is the regime has succeed in their goal to dumbing down this society.

Ciambella wrote:

the only explanation I can come up with is the regime has succeed in their goal to dumbing down this society.

That is the root problem, just not VN, but across the globe.  It is the age old story of keeping the masses ignorant while the minority stay wealthy and educated, which basically equates to power and control.  Uncle Ho knew all to well and South VN, especially Saigon, hundreds of schools were closed and parents and children were threatened if they continued to send their kids to the wrong schools.  Of course, many ended up dead.

I have lived and worked in latin america, same story.  The rich are the minority and send their kids to the best schools and then off to the USA for University.  The masses struggle and have no access to a quality education and what makes matters worse, connections are extremely important and that is why many families end up marrying other family members because they would rather die than share their wealth with someone not of similar DNA (i.e., social economic status).

Based on my experiences in VN, I do not think I have ever come across a stupid VN person.  The problem I see is the lack of a formal education.  For example, the women I see working in the markets, even in smaller cities, are sharp as hell and I think, "wow, if these people had a formal education, how far could they go"? 

Do not think the Western world is not immune from the same problem.  Although we have a better formal education system, it does not mean the masses are well educated.  I could write books on the subject matter, but to keep it short, the education system in the West was and is designed and managed to keep the masses educated enough to be slave laborers and for those with desire, can break free from the farm.  The fascist in VN will have to decide whether they will need to upgrade the education system to have a better slave labor work force because technology is driving labor and if VN does not keep up, the masses are going to have a very difficult future, more difficult than today.

Ciambella wrote:

Diazo wrote:

What happened to Ciambella. She had such greag insight into this subject. I guess she bolted when the ghost paid the thread a visit.

Ghosts don't scare me, Diazo, but this thread does.    Too many bizarre stories showing a way of life that is so dissimilar to the one I knew, making me wonder whether I'm living in the same country.

Granted, I don't know much about raising children in VN or the Vietnamese way, but I've seen tons of relatives who did and still do.  None of the children/grandchildren were wrapped in cotton wool and protected from every imaginable evil of the world.

I simply don't understand the drastic change in Vietnamese people's minds and common sense in the last 40+ years.  Does this happen to most people or only some, I'm asking myself and I don't have the answer.

I can guarantee you that unteachable and unchangeable were not the characteristics of Vietnamese people once upon a time.  Since it seems to be the case now, based on what I'm reading on these forums, the only explanation I can come up with is the regime has succeed in their goal to dumbing down this society.

My take is only some. While I've only lived in four countries, from what I've seen in my 70 plus years, their are always those who are stupid and self destructive everywhere and no country or culture is immune.

For those who have been harmed by stupid and self destructive people from any culture, you need to get over it and move on. When children are involved, this can be heart wrenching. But, children can be surprisingly resilient. Do what you can for the children and don't give up hope for them.

My 2 Xu

EOD you sure come up with some doozies. That is funny. I have a friend here now who is pregnant. She was pregnant long before she ever saw a doctor. I got her some good quality prenatal vitamins and
calcium supplements. On her first visit to the doctor she complained of being tired and the doctor told her to stop taking the vitamins and calcium. Can you imagine if someone went to the doctor and they complained of being tired and they told them to stop eating. Vitamin supplements are nothing more than vitamins and minerals we should have in our diet, but often do not. At the very least you would think the doctor would have ordered tests to see if there was some reason for her to be tired. Very often women are low on iron in the first few months of pregnancy. I had to fight to get the doctor to understand the importance of folic acid in my wife's diet. The doctor insisted it was not necessary. I asked do you know what complications can come out of a folic acid deficiency and she argued there were none. I guess she does not walk the streets of VN  and see all the harelipped people. Of course the other neural tube defects are hidden e.g spinal bifida, cleft pallet and an entire host of other problem. And I imagine to this day that doctor will not recommend any supplements to her patients. I gathered all the data and info from WHO, NIH and CDC and gave to her. How do they advance past this thinking.....I have no clue.

Diazo wrote:

EOD you sure come up with some doozies. That is funny. I have a friend here now who is pregnant. She was pregnant long before she ever saw a doctor. I got her some good quality prenatal vitamins and
calcium supplements. On her first visit to the doctor she complained of being tired and the doctor told her to stop taking the vitamins and calcium. Can you imagine if someone went to the doctor and they complained of being tired and they told them to stop eating. Vitamin supplements are nothing more than vitamins and minerals we should have in our diet, but often do not. At the very least you would think the doctor would have ordered tests to see if there was some reason for her to be tired. Very often women are low on iron in the first few months of pregnancy. I had to fight to get the doctor to understand the importance of folic acid in my wife's diet. The doctor insisted it was not necessary. I asked do you know what complications can come out of a folic acid deficiency and she argued there were none. I guess she does not walk the streets of VN  and see all the harelipped people. Of course the other neural tube defects are hidden e.g spinal bifida, cleft pallet and an entire host of other problem. And I imagine to this day that doctor will not recommend any supplements to her patients. I gathered all the data and info from WHO, NIH and CDC and gave to her. How do they advance past this thinking.....I have no clue.

Question. Was the Doctor a Trac Si(sp) or Tien Si(sp). the term Bac Si(sp) is attached to either in Vietnam. But, a Trac Si(sp) is not a real Doctor or MD by International standards. A Trac Si(sp) is more like a Nurse Practitioner. Also the specific hospital where you saw the Doctor is important for a number of reasons that were covered in an older thread.

Note, this is not a cultural issue. This is a known weakness in the Vietnamese health care system that is due to a lack of trained medical personal. Over the last couple of decades the Vietnamese health care has dramatically improved. But, their is still much room for improvement. The Vietnamese Government is fully aware of this and quite open in it's efforts to continue improving the situation.

Also note, I have discussed these issues with a number of friends who are Doctors,  Tien Si(sp), over the years.

Don't get discouraged Ciambella. You have such great insights to the questions raised here. Maybe we simply have a myopic view of the VN around us.
  But I have yet to run into anyone that I could teach anything. I search my mind and seriously, I can not remember one. I have tried to teach children English in the presence of their parents. The child can not respond to me at all. The answer always come from the parent. If I stop the parent from answering, the child freezes in fear they will respond wrong or just start crying. I try to tell the parent I need to hear their wrong answers as well as their right answers so I know what to do for THEM, not you. Does no good. So I stopped even trying.
  I teach golf lessons. But to a Vnese, although they want a lesson, they refuse to listen. Granted sometimes the language barrier can make it harder. But I am showing them a drill in real time. Just copy what I show you. I have a personal trainer in the gym, and that is how he instructs me and I have no problem catching on. He speaks no English and I no VNese.
  These are the 3 food groups, this is how much you need of each food group. No way they are having no part of it.
  This is why Hep-A is so prevalent here. When you go booboo wash your hands before you handle food. Say what, your crazy.
   Have a friend who just lost her brother from bone cancer. Of course, we all know why he got bone cancer. He drank to much coffee. I was simply trying to explain to her to learn of her family medical history, how it first manifested in her brother, so she could seek care earlier than he did and have a chance to live a bit longer. No need she said. She already knew why and she did not drink coffee. I showed her the evidence there was no known link. Of course, they do not know what they are taking about.
  How often do you get out and have the chance to try and teach local people? Perhaps that is why. And maybe we are the ones that are just getting it wrong.

vndreamer wrote:

Do not think the Western world is not immune from the same problem.  Although we have a better formal education system, it does not mean the masses are well educated.

Precisely. It's already happened officially across the US for several years now with Common Core and the policy of no homework for 6th grade and below.  This is the link to the article  ‘A Comprehensive Dumbing Down of American Education at Every Level’:

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/ba … tion-every

Excerpt:

"...The math standards are set way below all of the Asian nations, and the U.S. language arts standards are not matched to international standards.  The section on math is written by mathematicians who look upon the changes as a comprehensive lowering of standards so that students at the end of high school know a lot less math than they used to and are not prepared for college-level math.”

My spouse's grandchildren were pulled out of public school, and since their paternal grandfather (not my spouse, who is the poor maternal grandpa) is wealthy and willing to pay for their tuition, the boys have been attending private school.  The yearly cost to educate them (age 7 and 11) is more than double the price of our last car.

In the field of education, there's no longer any difference between Vietnam and US cultures.

Most of the "doctors" I have seen are the BS type. I have seen doctors that were actually doctors and had medical training in France. And were very knowledgeable. From what I gather and understand the medical system here is extremely lacking from the very start. And how the government can be aware and say they are concerned is hard for me to understand. A medical student starts their medical training straight out of high school here from what I have been told. There is no undergraduate degree require before they begin post graduate medical training. Most premed degrees are in the life sciences.
And from all the shortcomings of the medical field here that I have come across it stems from this basic lack of understanding of , say, anatomy, biology etc.
  And you are correct 70yearold. They are more closely correlated to a Nurse Practitioner (NP) or an Physicians Assistant (PA) that we have in the West. But even there they are lacking.Both of these require a Masters degree and are so competitive also require life science backgrounds, if you can get in then. But even NP or PA's in the West must operate and are overseen by an MD. Here it is hard to find an MD in the hospital. I am not sure we have one in either of our hospitals.
  And that just covers the medical training. I live in a fairly large city here in VN. And nowhere in the city
does any of the labs have the ability to to do microbiology tests. This is something a doctor or quack needs every day to make the most rudimentary decisions. When you have an infection it is the microbiology department that takes the swab sample of the infection and places it on a media and lets the bacteria grow. Sensitivity disc are placed among the growing bacteria to see what antibiotic it will best respond to. Only then can the doctor start you on the best antibiotic.
  But here they have to send the swab out to a reference lab and wait 5-7 days to get the results back. That is a long time when an infection is in your body.
  Not to mention there is not one accredited laboratory in the country and only two accredited hospitals. So I think the government, if they truly are trying could do a lot better. And oh BTW, none of those accredited facilities are government facilities.
  Sorry, but the healthcare system here still scares me. A long long way to go to say the least.

Diazo wrote:

How often do you get out and have the chance to try and teach local people? Perhaps that is why. And maybe we are the ones that are just getting it wrong.

It's true that I don't get involve with people the way you guys are doing.  I'm in the position of not quite a local and not quite an expat, so whatever I do can be both appreciated because I'm a willingly helpful expat, *and* sneered at because I'm a showing off Overseas Vietnamese.  It's not either/or, but both.  I should be minding my own business because I haven't been living in the country for 40+ years so who the heck do I think I am and what the heck do I know.  At the same time, I also should be bending over backwards to make up for my absence and my lack of contribution to the country and its people during their time of need.

I even encountered that attitude when bargaining with vendors -- and once, in Ha Noi, with a 10 or 11 years old boy selling postcard at Ho Hoan Kiem.  He's so adamant that it's my responsibility to buy anything he tried to sell.  He cursed (not in swear words, but in cursed words like a witch did) when I continued walking.

So, to avoid the hassle, I try to fade into the woodwork and being just an observer while associating myself with only my blood relatives (nieces/nephews/great nieces/great nephews -- all of them are locals, but none of them is ignorant.)

I'm good at observing, so it's not a hardship and certainly muss less stressful.

Boy I agree with you there Ciambella. This is something Americans like to hide their heads in the sand about. My step-children came from Italy to America when they were quite young. Tbey were so far ahead of the Americans in math they were board to death and nothing for them to do. Having been away from the school system for many years I was not aware of how our educators had manipulated the curriculum and requirements to dumb things down so parents would be happy and they would  not have to teach.
But I was called in each year and told one of the children was having problems reading and they needed to come on the weekends just before they administered the state mandated test to see their knowledge level. I told the teacher, you told me this last year also. You have had all year to help the child, and now this again. I decided to have both children tested. One was now in the tenth grade and one in the ninth. Ones tested out at the second grade level and one the fourth. I immediately removed them from public school and began home schooling them. They excelled beyond anything I could imagine and and had scholarships to many ivy league schools. Both went on to have excellent careers.
  No, American public education has nothing to brag about in my opinion. But somewhere in this thread there were references made to stupidity of, I believe it was directed at VNese. I certainly do not like to hear this term used when it comes to education, or ones abilities. I have a wonderful education , but I do stupid things. I was around when the wave of VNese immigrants came to America, back when are school system was still okay, but beginning its downward spiral. But the VNese children excelled.They were always at the top of the class. Were they well educated....no. Did they have great intellectual ability...yes. Could they soak up knowledge like a sponge...yes. I think there is a great difference between the intellectual ability of an mind and the ability to get good information taught to put into that mind.
  Take most Vnese children here there all have great intellectual ability. But like in America the education system is broken for manifold reason. Because a teacher can not survive on the income they make from the government teaching during the day they collect coffee money at night to teach. Then too you have uneducated trying to educate. The same as we have in America.
  So there are no easy solutions to a very complex problem it seems to me. I think, and I know this will cause a fire storm. But I think the VNese should try to move from the rudimentary language they have now and teach in only English, or some higher level language. This coming from someone who hails from a country that has not even been able to convert to the metric system. But countries common language has been changed before, witness Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.
  Gosh soon we will have all the problems of the word solved. Ah ,but always nice to observe and discuss!!!

I hear you Ciambella,
  There is a very jaundice view of Viet Kieu here. Your situation is another topic of a great discussion. But girl you are so smart and have so much to offer, I do hope you keep your ideas flowing. I think we round eyed folks are welcomed with more open arms than you who have returned home. And you know this points to, what, I hate to call it ignorance. But you have such great knowledge to bring back and help your mother country. But again they dismiss knowledge out of hand. I am surprised to hear you say you have not found it hard to teach locals. I have many friend here in your very situation. They have locals who turn their back on them when they try to bring them into the current century.
  And the odd thing is, most who live here a s locals will do about anything to try an immigrate. And you try to being the West to them they want no part of you.
  At any rate stay with us. I am an avid follower of you intelligent well written posts.

@Diazo

The USA SSA awarded my wife a permeant and full disability retirement at age 57 for thalassaemia. In 2011, we'd already set up our retirement home and income in Bình Thuận Province in. Eventually our Doctors told us that we had plenty of money and would be absolutely stupid if we did not move to Saigon where better medical care was available.

During that time frame, only France and Thailand had serious thalassaemia
ongoing research. Neither one of us spoke French or Thai. But we knew that the Doctors in Vietnam unlike American Doctors knew that thalassaemia existed. My wife had to go to Vietnam to get a proper test for thalassaemia as we were unable to get a thalassaemia blood test in America.