Interfaith marriage abroad

Your proposed Russian marriage would contravene Islamic Law, as Muslim men can only marry a Muslim woman in an Islamic ceremony with all the required pronouncements and approvals. Other than those requirements, the ceremony would not result in a marriage that was recognised for a Malaysian Muslim.

If you wanted to marry in Russia, then after your conversion you could hold an Islamic ceremony and the marriage could be registered in Malaysia. After 6 months of marriage, the application for a Long Term Social Visit Pass can be initiated.

Suggest you contact the Russian Embassy in Kuala Lumpur for advice. You may also find some useful advice and support by joining the Facebook group Foreign Spouses Support Group - https://www.facebook.com/FSSGMY/

Thank you, Gravitas.
Could you please clarify one thing? According to Russian family law the Islamic wedding ceremony in masjid is not considered as a legal marriage. It is possible only in civil law procedure in registration authority. Do i understand correctly that even if we go through the islamic wedding procedure in Russia ater an ordinary civil wedding procedure, the last one will still contravene the malaysian Islamic law?

From the Malaysian perspective, Muslim marriages can take place in a registered place by a person legally able to conduct the process (most don't get married in a mosque). But the process followed must be Islamic. A civil (secular) process does not result in a legal marriage for Muslims. The suggested contacts should be able to assist you regarding the specific Malaysian requirements, plus this one http://www.kln.gov.my/web/rus_moscow/bi … iage_cert.  I took a quick look on Wikipedia and whilst other Islamic countries are less strict about civil marriage, Malaysia has specific requirements.

What I thought you were describing was rather like the French system, where there is a civil marriage ceremony at the Mairie and then a religious one in a church. In that case I believe it is the civil ceremony that is legally binding and certified. The key issues for your future in Malaysia together are 1. the marriage takes place when you are Muslim and 2. according to Muslim requirements. I therefore would be concerned because a Russian civil marriage does not satisfy those requirements and is not a process a Malaysian Muslim man should take part in.

As there are many Malaysians living or studying abroad, if you could update this thread it would be helpful for others. TIA.

Great thanks once again.
Actually in Russia religious is not implemented to the legal system at all. People don't need to go to the ceremony in church or in masjid after the registration marriage in the civil registration department.
Unfortunately the link provided above doesn't work, but there is the info that muslims couples married overseas should be aware that the overseas marrige procedure should meet the Malaysian Sharia law requirments. It means that even when i convert in Malaysia the russian marriage will be considered as a crime under the Sharia law. It seems there is no way to solve this issue

The info was from "Official Website of Embassy of Malaysia, Moscow

The reason for mentioning it is because of this content especially iv:

REGISTRATION OF MARRIAGE

Application has to be made in person at:

Embassy of Malaysia, Moscow
          Mosfilmovskaya Ulitsa 50
117192 Moscow
Telephone    : +7 495 419 9898, +7 495 419 9899
Fax              : +7 495 419 9897
Email           : mwmoscow@kln.gov.my
Office Hours : Monday-Friday 9.00 am - 1.00 pm & 2.00 pm - 5.00 pm


Contact Details:

Mr. Sahrulaszemi Suandi
Third Secretary

Mrs. Irina Anatolievna Ivanova
Consular Assistant

Telephone
Fax
Consular Hours

+7 495 419 9898, +7 495 419 9899
+7 495 419 9897
Monday-Friday
9:00 am – 12:00 pm (Submission)
3:00 pm – 4:30 pm (Collection) 

For appointment, please contact this number: +7 495 419 9898, +7 495 419 9899 ext. 224/207 Consular Section.


Email

mwmoscow@kln.gov.my


Documents to be submitted:
1.
1 copy of Registration Form, JPN.KC 06 - can be obtained at Embassy

2.
2 recent colored photographs of applicants with White Background, size 3.5 cm x 5.0 cm

3.
Russian Marriage Certificate (original and 2 photocopies)

4.
Notary Translation of the Russian Marriage Certificate endorsed by the Russian Ministry of Justice and Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Original and 2 photocopies)

5.
Applicant Malaysian Passport (original and 2 photocopies of page with personal details and page with Russian visa)

6.
Applicant Russian Passport (original and 2 photocopies of page with personal details and page with Registration)

7.
Applicant Malaysian Identity Card (original and 2 photocopies)

8.
Letter (Spravka in English) from university, college or school, confirming the status as a bona fide student if applicant is on Student Visa (Original and 1 photocopy)

9.
Letter (Spavka in English) from company confirming the status as an employee if applicant is on working visa (Original and 1 photocopy)

10.
Applicant Registration Slip (original and 2 photocopies)

11.
Applicant Immigration Card (original and 2 photocopies)

12.
Fees: RM 50.00 00 equivalent  to the foreign currency exchange

Mode of payment: Cash in Russian Ruble

NOTE:

i.        Processing takes ten (10) working days.

ii.        The marriage must be registered with the Embassy within 6 months from the date of marriage. Any registration made after 6 months of marriage is considered as late registration. The fee for late registration is RM100.00 for the first six months and RM50.00 for the following every six months.

iii.                The marriage can also be registered in person at any Jabatan Pendaftaran Negara Office in Malaysia within six (6) months of arrival in Malaysia.

iv.               For Muslim marriages solemnized in Russia, registration must be done with the Jabatan Agama Islam/ Islamic Religious Department in the applicant’s local area of residence in Malaysia. The Certificate of Conversion and the Marriage Certificate must be translated by a notary public in Russia and followed by an authentication by the Russian Ministry of Justice and the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Ok, Kristina is asking multiple questions. I can add a few extra points.

First, about a Malaysian marrying outside and then living in Malaysia, the first thing is that such a wedding is greatly discouraged. Part of the reason is that the Malay's father is unlikely to be present (abroad) or even approve of the marriage and this means you are eloping. Its the eloping the govt doesnt like because no matter what the relationship is, there is an assumption that this was against the will of someone and government, in court later, will want to get to the bottom of it.

Second, and this is very important to the Malays, the venue of the foreign wedding (mosque) should be one that JAKIM approves of. If they have no ties to any mosque in Russia, I highly recommend not marrying there. Is there an approved list? No. No, because when you contact JAKIM they will tell you straight off to marry in Malaysia. This means you have to research. Example, the Malaysian Embassy in Russia should be a source but they will play dumb and recommend that you go back and marry in Malaysia. So you go to the mosques, one by one, and ask the Imams about who has ties to Malaysia and/or the Embassy, because the Embassy must sign and approve your marriage certificate that you got from the mosque. If the Embassy doesnt approve the mosque, the government in Malaysia wont either.

Third, should you proceed, not only must you carefully document everything but take photos like crazy and leave them in your phone or camera because you will be submitting phone or camera as evidence later. The dates and times of the photos must match the paperwork. You photo the wedding itself on Thursday, the certificate must bear the date too, or next day. If the certificate is dated Thursday and your wedding photos are dated in the phone as 3 weeks later, this will be caught and you are in trouble and not approved. Part of the reason they hate elopment is because there are MANY phony marriages done abroad and the government tries to catch them. Have tons of abundant PROOF of what you did. Have witnesses and videos of meetings and everything. Guard it!

Fourth, you will have a court trial before you can register the marriage here. Its critical to your case that you have every detail of process memorized, from how you met, why you decided to marry, what happened in the wedding, what was said by you and others. Names, dates, times places. The trial will take about 9 months, during which time you cant leave the country. Immigration will accommodate the visa--at a cost of about RM100 per month. So you dont have to ask why 9 months, its because when you give testimony, you are only allowed about 5 minutes. Then the case is continued to about 3 weeks later and you talk for 5 minutes more. The case is done in pieces, not one go. This is done this way to see if you are telling the truth because its very hard to keep lies in your head for so long. Real truth is always remembered. Also, you give testimony separately from your spouse. One of you gives testimony while the other waits outside. If you both do not have the same story, the marriage is unlikely to be approved. The government seeks to know, are these people really in love? was it a love match? did the wedding really occur and there are no lies or forged documents? does the malay family like the accept the non-malay spouse?

Fifth, the court will attempt to force you to hire a lawyer at the time you file your case. You do NOT need a lawyer, you can do everything yourself, but you should consult a lawyer who you ask to stay in the background of the case and advise you (for cost) if needed. Sometimes, a lawyer can be most helpful to represent you in the penalty phase but again, its not a requirement.  While in the case, any papers you have in a foreign language will require you to hire a translator through the Magistrate Court to put everything into the Malay language. Court proceedings are all done in the Malay language, you may have to hire an Interpreter to stand with you in court. This fact alone may cause you to hire a lawyer from the start but doing so can cost you RM2000-3500.

Sixth. At the end of the case you WILL be fined for elopment. The stated penalty is RM2000 and the government will send a prosecutor to force the Judge to invoke it.  The prosecutor will cruelly argue that the foreigner is a liar and a cheat no good at all for society! The Judge has discretion and if he likes you he can reduce the fine to RM500 or RM700, for example. But expect to pay, no doubt. You can also write a letter to the Judge and appeal a heavy fine but that is not likely to help. He will do what he likes to do. If you are arrogant and argumentative, expect to pay the maximum. Be pleasant, sincere, calm, deferential and get out of there with the lightest penalty.

Seventh, do not under any circumstances whatsoever hire a so-called "marriage agent." Aside from any promises they make, the court will ask you straight off if you had one and if so, likely stop the proceedings and your approval is in jeopardy.

Eighth, if you marry outside and stay outside, then you only have to worry about meeting Civil guidelines in the other city/country. Example, if you marry in a mosque in Moscow, you follow the rules to register that marriage with Civil authorities there, even if it means a new wedding. Then you can forget all about Malaysia. But.....you can come AS married people for 6 months and if you leave again, there is no problem. If one day, say in 10 years, you decide to come back and live in Malaysia permanently, you will have to do the entire process outlined here. For this reason, follow these ideas even if you dont intend to live here so that if you change your mind one day, you are all ready to finish things here properly.

Ninth. Yes, you are required to quickly register after the wedding. But lets talk about a reality. A Malay and Russian meet while students in USA. They marry however they do, like in the Drive-Through Wedding in Las Vegas. No conversion, no mosque, no embassy, no nothing, and go about their life. One day, when they are 90 years old, they decide to live in Malaysia. The government cannot say you are not married, you ARE, and will have to accommodate a registration SOMEHOW. It may be an entirely different procedure than what we have here, there may or may not be penalties, you may have to convert and re-marry, nobody really knows.

There are many more points about this but this is the general outline. Obviously, if you can marry in Malaysia you can avoid several problems, but you also raise new problems too, especially should families be directly involved. You should understand from the beginning that the government has never liked marriages to foreigners and makes things purposely difficult to discourage them. To do this, you both have to be strong and patient. My general advice is to continue to research and ask questions so that you are fully informed of processes before you marry. Personally, I highly recommend as a place to start, a mosque in Russia. Meet with the Imam and discuss everything and see what they say and can do for you.

Forgive me if i listed any items you already knew. I was just writing as I thought of things. Its 130am and my brain is fried. Goodnite!