Retirement Visa Bank Letter/Brazilian Bank/PIX

Normally a Branch manager should be able to provide a letter.

Are you receiving SS or SSI? The latest statement should be fine as proof of retirement.

As to having a bank in Brazil, yes. Wiring via WU is very expensive.

You must have a bank account to use PIX.

I am not a fan of PIx, but some government agencies only use PIX, direct debit from a bank, or a credit card.

You can pay cash from a utility-type bill but it requires a lot of trips to the bank which is accepted for paying the bill.

Why is the figure set so high per month here, the local people wouldn't get near that in salaries. It is also double the value of a European state pension. Is there any leeway if your partner has a house in Brazil on  the 2,000 USD per month? Many thanks

Why is the figure set so high per month here, the local people wouldn't get near that in salaries. It is also double the value of a European state pension. Is there any leeway if your partner has a house in Brazil on the 2,000 USD per month? Many thanks
-@ltoby955

First, it is the Law. How congress came up with $2,000.00 we have no idea. It does not mean you have to bring/wire $2,000 each month. At first, Brasil did not include stocks, bonds, or IRAs'. Brasil amend this and now stocks and other investments are included.

There is no leeway. It is your partner's home and not your income.

Why is the figure set so high per month here, the local people wouldn't get near that in salaries. It is also double the value of a European state pension. Is there any leeway if your partner has a house in Brazil on the 2,000 USD per month? Many thanks
-@ltoby955

Don't forget, currency exchange rates change by the minute. In November 2017 when the system changed from VIPER to VITEM, the exchange rate for R$3.2 to $1 US dollar. So, at that time, $2,000 US dollars was only = to R6.400, Not so long before that, it was only R$2.2 to $1 US dollar.

Under the old VIPER system, the monthly retirement income was R$6,000 / month, but that was for only one person and they had the discretion to increase that if you had a spouse, kids, etc. So, at the time of the change, they were only increasing the monthly requirement by R$400 a month and eliminated the clause for extra income for spouses, kids etc.

09/03/22 Why is the figure set so high per month here, the local people wouldn't get near that in salaries.
-@ltoby955

Let me say at the outset that what follows is based on my own analysis of the current Law of Migration versus the former Law of Immigration, and not on any official government statements. I think that the logic is convincing, but your views may vary.

The short answer is this: Brazil wants to limit the immigration of seniors that it considers to be poor. That may sound cruel, but only if you also consider what actuarial tables and related age curve studies tell us to be cruel: they all indicate that an aging population, on average, is more expensive and more difficult to maintain, especially if they haven't built up a resource surplus through years of work or, if immigrants, brought those resources with them. Mere subsistence is not enough over the long term. And Brazil already admits a lot of poor people.  Brazil cooperates with the UNHCR to maintain a fairly generous asylum policy relative to its GDP. There are no income or education limitations on family reunion for spouses of Brazilians, or the parents or minor children of those people. Like most countries in the Western Hemisphere, Brazil grants citizenship on a jus soli basis: any child born in Brazil is a Brazilian citizen, and such children have the right to have their parents and minor siblings live with them in Brazil. It is very easy for citizens of Mercosul countries and even citizens of non-Mercosul countries that border Brazil to move here, and stay if they can find employment. Many, perhaps most, of these people are poor, but they're also working age, or children who will grow up to be workers.

It's also not the case that "the local people wouldn't get near that (US$2000) in salaries". The majority don't, but many do. This table from the IBGE (Instituto Brasileiro de Geografia e Estatística) is one of the ones used most frequently to discuss income and class in Brazil. A definitive version, with footnotes, can be found at https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classes_sociais_no_Brasil :

Salary and income amounts are monthly; x-rate from Wise 1 USD = 5.19115 BRL

Class      No of Min Salaries    Family Income (R$) in 2022   US$ @ 09/03/22        Percent of Pop (IBGE 2022)

Class A    Over 20                        R$ 24.240,01 and over         $4,669.49 and over       2.8%

Class B    From 10 to 20             R$ 12.120,01 to R$ 24.240  $2,334.74 to $4,669.48   13.2%

Class C    From 4 to 10               R$ 4.848,01 to R$ 12.120    $933,90 to $2,334.74     33.3%

Class D    From 2 to 4                 R$ 2.424,01 to R$ 4.848      $466.95 to $933.89      50.7%

Class E    Up to 2                          Up to R$ 2.424,00               Up to $466.95

Class D & E percents combined; not usually split out

Fonte: Carneiro, Thiago (10 de dezembro de 2021). «Faixas Salariais x Classe Social»

Class C is often referred to as the "middle class", but really only the top half of its income distribution is that. The lower half is the "New Middle Class", the people who were raised from poverty to the middle class by Lula's Administration. The pandemic has been especially devastating for these people, and many have slipped back into Class D. If we assume that only one quarter of Class C earns the equivalent of US$2,000/month or more, that still leaves almost 25% of the Brazilian population at that income or higher. A minority, certainly, but a sizeable one.

As rraypo stated, the old Retirement Visa was part of the VIPER permanent visa system, and carried all the rights that the Family Reunion VIPER did, except the right to a Labor Card: retirees were not allowed to compete for Brazilian jobs. It was a permanent visa, anyone over 60 -- in other words, most people who had it -- got a CIE, the predecessor of the CRNM, that never expired. And they qualified for free treatment at SUS from the day of their arrival. The income requirement was intended to be US$3,000 per month, but it was defined in Brazilian currency, and became increasingly confused because of currency reforms, inflation, and exchange fluctuations. The government tried to keep up, but never succeeded for very long. When the new law was published in Spring 2017 with an effective date of October 2017, and changed all the other permanent VIPERs into temporary VITEMs, those of us who follow such things were shocked to see that the Retirement VIPER hadn't been reclassified, it was just GONE.

When the new one came out a couple of years later, my first reaction was, "Well, that's a lousy deal!" The income requirement was actually LOWERED to US$2,000, but that was the only good thing that could be said for it, and it was redefined in US currency, so it was going to stick. Applicants were required to have and keep private insurance, and it seems that SUS will never be available to them. And it has to keep being renewed, so there's always the prospect of rejection somewhere down the line. I expect that the renewal requirements will be loosened eventually, but even at the lower income level, it's still not a very good deal. Anyone who can qualify for Family Reunion should look very hard at it, in my opinion.

09/03/22 I was searching on the forums for this answer and could not find it. Does anyone know how this works in real life? How do I get a this letter from my bank for a retirement visa:
"Proof of retirement and ability to transfer monthly to Brazil the amount equal to or greater than US$2,000.00 (must enclose official letter from bank, signed by applicant’s account manager, informing that bank will be able to transfer monthly the amount equal or greater than US$ 2,000.00 to applicant’s bank account in Brazil)"

-@jasonlovesdogs

I read the law as referring to your US Bank Manager.  If I were doing this today, I would give my bank manager a draft letter addressed to the Consulate General of Brazil in _________________ and saying that you have at least $X,XXX deposited monthly in your account, and that the bank will have no difficulty transferring US$2,000 or any other amount you require to Brazil monthly.  As I've written elsewhere, it's very good practice to retain a bank account in your home country for just such requirements.

I agree that the requirement seems ineffective.  For the old Retirement Visa, applicants were required to prove that they actually had the income, which would seem much more to the point.  But what they want is what they want. *shrugs*

09/03/22 Also, is there any reason to ever have a Brazilian bank account while living in Brazil? I use my credit cards and withdrawal money and ATMs here from my bank.

Also, is there any reason to have PIX? I just use my credit cards, cash, and ATM. I just got a CPF number and was considering signing up for PIX. How does that work? Do you have to have a Brazilian bank to sign up because I was searching online and I can't figure out how to sign up. Online it says you don't need a bank account for PIX.

Thanks everyone!
-@jasonlovesdogs

Whether you should have a Brazilian bank account or not depends pretty much on how you want to live. If you want to live as a tourist who basically just has a tourist visa that never expires, then you can probably get by. You'll need to carry around a lot of cash, in a society that's becoming increasingly cashless, so I'm not sure how viable a plan that is in the long run, but it should be good for a couple of years, anyway. You'll need to put up with withdrawal ceilings and ridiculous fees at ATMs -- Bradesco is charging 6.5% on top of their lousy exchange rate on US debit card withdrawals. You'll have to be adept at coming up with workarounds on the fly, like when a store that's taken your US credit card before suddenly won't, or you have to make a major purchase like furniture, and no store will take your card. And if one or more of your cards gets cloned, that's a three-way conversation in two languages. What fun!  It will probably be harder to find anyone willing to sign a lease or any other serious contract with you if you don't have a local banking relationship, but it may be possible.

If you want to live like your Brazilian peers, you'll need a bank account, for flexibility and options. The boleto system of billing makes online bill payment even easier in Brazil than it is in the US: you never have to set up a payee because all the information is in the barcode on the boleto, and you never have a check arrive late, because the banking system doesn't use checks as a rule. With a Brazilian bank account you can get a Brazilian credit card. I resisted that myself for at least two years, but it protects my US cards, and there are some things that you can only do with a Brazilian credit card, including, inexplicably, pay your Prime membership at Amazon.com.br, even though they accept US cards for merchandise.

You never have to sign up for Pix, you get it automatically when you have a Brazilian bank account, but no account, no Pix. I think that you don't need a bank account to receive a Pix, but I think that you need one to send a Pix. I use it sparingly myself, but it's probably the wave of the future.

@abthree Hi my partner owns her own company and earns less than I do, I have an apartment in Portugal is that a transferable asset, do they consider that as an investment? I earn about 9000 reais (equivalent) per month. I think the crazy thing is the dollar has strengthened against most foreign currencies partly due to the war in Ukraine and the reliance on Russian fuels, hopefully, this won't last. Re not wanting older people with lower incomes into a n other country, most grab at the chance because every penny brought in is a penny Brazil didn't incur any costs on, it pure income.

It seems Brazil might have to be off my agenda outside of 180 days per year.

Thanks for your reply.

09/04/22 @abthree . Re not wanting older people with lower incomes into a n other country, most grab at the chance because every penny brought in is a penny Brazil didn't incur any costs on, it pure income.

There's some truth to that, until the retiree is hit by a car, or falls from a crumbling outdoor stairway, or (as happened to me) is suddenly immobilized in the middle of a busy street by a gout attack.  There are lots of ways for things to go pear-shaped in Brazil, and it's important to game out the worst case scenarios, not just the steady-state one.

It seems Brazil might have to be off my agenda outside of 180 days per year.
Thanks for your reply.
-@ltoby955

That's a great insight, and I wish more people had it.  For a surprising number of people, I suspect that the six months in/six months out scenario would actually work best for them, and is rarely considered.  It's logical for folks to start thinking about moving to Brazil by looking at the visa menu, but I often think that the most productive way would be to start by thinking "What do I really want my life to be like in Brazil?", and then to review the visa list for the way that would let them have the maximum of what they want for the minimum of effort and hassle.

@abthree Hi my partner owns her own company and earns less than I do, I have an apartment in Portugal is that a transferable asset, do they consider that as an investment? I earn about 9000 reais (equivalent) per month. I think the crazy thing is the dollar has strengthened against most foreign currencies partly due to the war in Ukraine and the reliance on Russian fuels, hopefully, this won't last. Re not wanting older people with lower incomes into a n other country, most grab at the chance because every penny brought in is a penny Brazil didn't incur any costs on, it pure income.
It seems Brazil might have to be off my agenda outside of 180 days per year.
Thanks for your reply.
-@ltoby955

I add that your home currently is not considered a liquid asset under the retirement law. (not income)

@jasonlovesdogs

@jasonlovesdogs

@abthree I go along with all that, but me and my Brazilain girlfriend have enough income and sufficient health and life cover to deal with many scenarios. Both our houses are owned outright and as you know it's way cheaper to live compared to Europe etc. But Uruguay is looking more inviting and it allows me to pop over and back. It really isn't worth stressing over so I will see if it happens it happens. Many thanks abthree

@Texanbrazil Thanks for the info its all needed to make a decision.

Jasonlovedogs
Also, is there any reason to ever have a Brazilian bank account while living in Brazil? I use my credit cards and withdrawal money and ATMs here from my bank.

Also, is there any reason to have PIX?
-@jasonlovesdogs

OK, my two cents worth on Pix, as people living as tourists do not need a bank account in Brasil. However, if you have bills, electricity, phone, etc., and even buying things on the street, everyone uses Pix now instead of cash. Even simple things like buying produce at the street market, it's PIX now, not cash as everyone feels much safer. When I order food over the phone for home delivery, I pay for it with Pix. My car insurance is paid by Pix while on the phone with my agent. I bought a used car for a friend and paid the former owner with Pix while we were standing in a DETRAN office.

One thing I continue to find strange in Brasil is there is often a distinction made between debit and credit cards. For example, my car insurance company will only accept a credit card, not a debit card. So, I cannot use my US debit cards to pay for my auto insurance in Brasil. When using my US bank debit cards to purchase say groceries, the card must be run as a debit, not a credit or it will not go through/process at all. In the US, no one asks or cares if your card is a debit or credit when you go shopping, it's just a card. Yes, some machines like Home Depot will have icons for both as you go to pay, but I do not find that typical.

My Brasilian Itau card is both a debit and a credit card in one card, something I truly hate, and a word I rarely use. If I say debit when buying something, and the clerk punches the icon for credit in error, I now have a credit card charge on my account instead of debiting my own accounts, something I did not want. So, I have to very carefully watch my bank statement each month or I get both interest and late fees on a charge I did not request.

I have yet to have used pix. Wife has used it for a few things. primarily anything I can do on credit is done there as a primary and immediately paid from my checking account, but I am a cog in the wheel here so it works well for us on that front. ( me and the wife )

99% of the time everything is situational for everyone here, if you do happen to open an account and veer from the path of the tourist . It could be beneficial but then your open to paying monthly fees with x y z bank on top of your north american bank,

I have mention on a few posts in regards to finding out which payment gateways your x y z card works on, as example most of canadian bank cards or credit cards work on the plus network. so any banco na 24 horas machine will work. despite the name they will be in locations that are not 24 hours lol.

abthree is absolutely correct on c class slipping to d, your the only other that I have noticed watching that behavior as well. Hopefully elections things will get sorted out so d can go back to c, and things normalize hopefully. busy times here with elections. roads getting fixed and the works haha!

09/04/22 I have yet to have used pix.
-@Mikeflanagan

Yeah, Mike, to say that I've been "hesitant" to use pix would be an understatement!  I realize that it's totally irrational, but any transfer that doesn't require at least a password gives me the creeps.  Feel free to laugh, but the only thing so far for which I use pix regularly so far is the Sunday collection.  Our chronic shortage of coins in the North is starting to extend to low-value bills as well; stores in Manaus do everything they can to avoid giving change, and bills lower that R$50 are a precious commodity.  So I've been scheduling a pix to go to the parish every Sunday in my bank app, and leaving it on autopilot; the people taking up the collection probably think I'm a deadbeat, but that little humiliation is good for my soul. 😉

Because of the shortage of change, we've also been keeping our Uber Cash balance topped up, and have taken to telling the drivers at the start of the ride rather than at the end that that's how we're paying.  Their relief is palpable, because otherwise, many of them tend to fret about having to make change for the whole ride.

yea for uber its always on credit. i have a long history with uber so no worries if any accidents happen. I somehow managed to maintain a 4.99 out of 5* rating there as a passenger.

I still lean on a bit of an impasse. Wife can use it when we dont want to wait for an uber or if we are at a grocery and the taxi will have space to accommodate food.

outside of those windows we are in a large metro city so it works. I can see it being different if we were outside the metro system for sure!

@jasonlovesdogs

Bom dia!  I just went through all of this for my retirement Visa. I was accepted for the maximum term of 2 years before I will need to renew.  I did everything from the USA before entering Brazil.  I had to send all the required documents to the consulate in Chicago. I just had a teller at my bank in MN write me a form letter.  It was very easy and the consulate accepted this without any questions.  I also included the required proof of pension income (in my case SSDI income) .

I got registered here as a Resident with my RG card now about 3 weeks ago.  And got my SUS card as well.  I wanted to have a Brazilian Bank account to give me more opportunities to use my local debit and credit cards. Thanks to many of you who mad great suggestions about which banks to look at... I LOVE using PIX.  Super easy and very much like Venmo in the USA. But Venmo doesn't work here lol... I don't like carrying a lot of cash and I like to mix up paying with credit cards, cash and PIX. Pix is also great for transferring money between my account and my Brazilian girlfriends account as needed for certain bills.  Hope this is useful!  Martin

@MA22 Good info. Can you tell what the letter basically said? Thanks

09/08/22 @MA22.  Congratulations, Martin - all good news!

Good to know that you were able to get  SUS card.  Were there any issues with that, or did you only have to go in and show your CRNM?

@jasonlovesdogs

Just a letter on The Bank letterhead stating that they have the ability to transfer that amount of money every month ($2,000) Signed by that employee.

It wasn't even the branch manager.

Sent along with my incone verification and everything else they requested.

Once I submitted all the documents correctly online, it took just a couple days and they had me send everything via USPS. I sent it Priorty-overnight And Return mail also!. They approved everything and I had my visa in my hands within about 5 days...

@abthree Thank you! you have always been super helpful to me and many others in this forum. No, no problems. Once I got my CRNM, we just went to a local place nearby that does SUS cards. Fortunately, that day we did not have to wait at all! Only had to show my CRNM number (was still waiting for my actually RG card to arrive at Policia Federal. We left with our printed SUS Cards within 15 minutes! My Brazilian girlfriend needed a new card too. Then we took them to a local shop for laminating...

Great news a little confused with all the acronyms.

09/09/22 Great news a little confused with all the acronyms.
-@ltoby955

Sorry about that! 🤣

USPS = United States Postal Service

RG = Registro Geral, Brazilian citizens  national ID card

CRNM = Carteira de Registro Nacional Migratório, resident foreigner's ID card

SUS = Sistema Único de Saúde, Brazil's equivalent of the UK's NHS

Congrats, Martin!

@Texanbrazil

Muito obrigado por tudo amigo!