Residency application

Kieran Paget wrote:

My National residency got turned down, and i am now going for other reasons....

Sorry about it.   Looks like a perfect storm.

I don't think there's any time to wait between applications.

Best to start working on it straight away.

I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles, Kieran

Did they give you a reason why they turned down your residency?

When did you first arrive in Hungary?

You could also try and ask the Embassy for help? If you are on Facebook you can contact them that way or via their website. But holidays just around the corner it might be a while to get a response.

I am conservative (perhaps too much), but girlfriend sounds serious, no my business, but leaving one in the UK and a new one in Hungary? Marriage sounds an easy solution, if you are willing to Hungary for your girlfriend to Hungary and assuming feelings are mutual, easy solution for both? You already indicated, so I do not see the problem, just a few more months in which period you can already deal with many useful things for the move to Hungary. Preparing moving and bureaucracy can be a nightmare.
No need to despair.

You could propose now and get a fiance visa maybe?
They should give you 90 days to leave if you get a notice of deportation.I know, I got one and was married at the time for like 40 years to a Hungarian and have a HU son. Retired, have property in HU and income frm the US.
Just saying, you can reapply anytime, you can buy extentions on your time too.
Your GF should be able to help you at immigration because some of these ,"gray areas" are not easy to know unless you are in it already. The immigration office from our experience is not very forthcoming with info.
Why wait to get married if your going to do it anyways?
Don't panic, it will work out but be ready for allot of waiting around with immigration.
They never said a word about how they messed me around for over 6 months with waiting for approval and buying extentions to stay, it was a stressful time. We nearly sold or property while waiting and since then I've never really felt like HU would ever be my home. 12 years later, I'm still here but still angry how they treated us.
A simple, we made a mistake would of been nice but I've learned to not hold my breath with anything official.
Good luck, just get married early, it could be a sign that you should get hitched earlier then you planned.

Still nowhere, sent off my bank statements, health insurance and my tenancy, waiting to hear back but my ITI runs out so need to extend it, just need to figure out what to do if it gets turned away.

Does anyone have any specialidt lawyers they can recommend?

Kieran Paget wrote:

Still nowhere, sent off my bank statements, health insurance and my tenancy, waiting to hear back but my ITI runs out so need to extend it, just need to figure out what to do if it gets turned away.

Does anyone have any specialidt lawyers they can recommend?

What's an ITI?

I'm fully documented and I still don't have my residence permit either.    And Friday 31st, my registration certificate/card expires.   Presumably on 1st Jan, I'd be here on 90 days in 180 days only.   

I did ask immigration and they said they were waiting for police checks whatever that means. I cannot see anything happening until some time into the New Year.  They told me to show my receipt when crossing the border.

Kieran Paget wrote:

Still nowhere, sent off my bank statements, health insurance and my tenancy, waiting to hear back but my ITI runs out so need to extend it, just need to figure out what to do if it gets turned away.

Does anyone have any specialidt lawyers they can recommend?

I can not recommend any lawyer but there is a company here called, "Hungarian Helpers".
You could check them out online, might even have a price list for their services.
Try not to freat, immigration is slow.
I never had warning about any papers being delivered, I'd just get a slip in the post to pick them up after signing for them.
If they are sending papers to you in the UK it might take a long time.
It's slow enough in country.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Kieran Paget wrote:

Still nowhere, sent off my bank statements, health insurance and my tenancy, waiting to hear back but my ITI runs out so need to extend it, just need to figure out what to do if it gets turned away.

Does anyone have any specialidt lawyers they can recommend?

I can not recommend any lawyer but there is a company here called, "Hungarian Helpers".
You could check them out online, might even have a price list for their services.
Try not to freat, immigration is slow.
I never had warning about any papers being delivered, I'd just get a slip in the post to pick them up after signing for them.
If they are sending papers to you in the UK it might take a long time.
It's slow enough in country.

Post is hard to predict to the UK and vice-versa at the moment. It's far worse than it used to be.

Post to UK is supposedly marginally faster if it's registered post (signed for) but it's expensive.  I sent some documents to a UK government department before Xmas - on 20 December 2021 - and it's still not been received. It's stuck in the UK ordinary post.  I can track it online.   It cost 3500 HUF to send it.  I can understand it being slower at Xmas but still, pricey for what it doesn't do.

On the other hand, I was sent an Xmas card from the UK, postmarked 20 December 2021 and I received it here in HU on the 27 December.

Has to be sent here i dont have a uk adress anymore, i am "homeless" in the uk, obviously i can go and rent a place but for now im classified as homeless, i will look into hungary helpers now and see what i can see thank you.

It was like a temporary thing allowing me to stay in country for 30 days while my application is being processed, i guess its for 3rd world only.

Im still waiting on a few xmas cards to arrive all got sent on the 20th of december.

Kieran Paget wrote:

It was like a temporary thing allowing me to stay in country for 30 days while my application is being processed, i guess its for 3rd world only.

But you can stay for 90 says. Was it an extension?

I have already used my 90/180 unfortunately,

SimCityAT wrote:

Kieran Paget wrote:

It was like a temporary thing allowing me to stay in country for 30 days while my application is being processed, i guess its for 3rd world only.

But you can stay for 90 says. Was it an extension?

No-one seems to know what happens when the time runs out on a stay and lack of progress is due to immigration being slow. 

I was in the UK a week in October or November and then came back here.  My reg card is still valid until 31 Dec midnight so I'm "clean" until then.    I think possibly I am on a 90/180 day stay come 1 Jan 2022.

I doubt the cops are going to turn up and take me away to the airport for deportation but there's just just the wafer thin paperwork of an immigration application receipt between me and that happening.   That's if they can find me - which shouldn't be too difficult as my address is in my registration details. 

I can see some odd problems potentially when leaving - like why have I overstayed.  Based on my experiences with the Germans, I wouldn't trust any non-HU Schengen border post to accept any HU paperwork as sufficient.   I am deliberately not travelling to or via any country other than the UK and HU currently.

What really concerns me is going to the UK and not being able to come back in because a jobsworth down at the airport wants to stick the boot in.    There is apparently a kind of paperwork justification which can be used to show intent to justify temporary admission but I trust that as far as I can throw it.

I'm also "homeless" in the UK but I'm working on an emergency Plan B in case I have to leave until the permit is approved.   

I am a severely an unhappy bunny.

Yea same boat, i will figure something out i have the money to keep me here illegally i just dont want to, so will go the legit route as long as possible.

Kieran Paget wrote:

Yea same boat, i will figure something out i have the money to keep me here illegally i just dont want to, so will go the legit route as long as possible.

Yes, legit is best.

The worst case on a first overstay would be a fine and deportation and possibly ban for X years on returning.  There are no rights here now Brexit has sunk its teeth into our status.  The chances of being caught are low BUT it also means no way to go in and out as one would always have to pass a Schengen border. 

I can see one possible way around it but no idea if it'd work.  Idea might be to just get a visa temporarily.   I don't know anyone who has ever applied for a HU/Schengen visa.

p.s.  Have you thought about asking for a review of the decision?

Under Article 18 of the Withdrawal agreement, it says:

"r) the applicant shall have access to judicial and, where appropriate, administrative redress procedures in the host State against any decision refusing to grant the residence status. The redress procedures shall allow for an examination of the legality of the decision, as well as of the facts and circumstances on which the proposed decision is based. Such redress procedures shall ensure that the decision is not disproportionate".

See here: Agreement on the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the European Union and the European Atomic Energy Community

Might be worth a go and could be free if you do it yourself.  15 or 30 days to complain seems standard here.  Even if you applied again, why not lodge an appeal just to see what is going on and what their problem is.

problem is lack of proof, only tenancy, and a few bank transactions also a train ticket from berlin to budapest but wasnt enough proof.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Kieran Paget wrote:

Yea same boat, i will figure something out i have the money to keep me here illegally i just dont want to, so will go the legit route as long as possible.

Yes, legit is best.

The worst case on a first overstay would be a fine and deportation and possibly ban for X years on returning.  There are no rights here now Brexit has sunk its teeth into our status.  The chances of being caught are low BUT it also means no way to go in and out as one would always have to pass a Schengen border. 

I can see one possible way around it but no idea if it'd work.  Idea might be to just get a visa temporarily.   I don't know anyone who has ever applied for a HU/Schengen visa.

You also be banned from other EU countries as well?

Kieran Paget wrote:

problem is lack of proof, only tenancy, and a few bank transactions also a train ticket from berlin to budapest but wasnt enough proof.

Have you called the Embassy?

SimCityAT wrote:

....
You also be banned from other EU countries as well?

Yes, Brexit bonkers.

Getting wrong on overstays or wrong paperwork would mean a ban everywhere else Schengen and a temporary restriction placed in the passport.   Worst case would be 3 years as an approximate entry ban and/or a fine.   Probably they'd give British people X days to leave rather than remanding that person prior to deportation.  I believe some EU nationals have already been deported from the UK and presumably the same vice-versa.

In some countries (like Thailand), overstaying by huge amounts (years) can lead to 10 year bans.

Kieran Paget wrote:

problem is lack of proof, only tenancy, and a few bank transactions also a train ticket from berlin to budapest but wasnt enough proof.

Did they write that down as a reason why?

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

....
You also be banned from other EU countries as well?

Yes, Brexit bonkers.

Getting wrong on overstays or wrong paperwork would mean a ban everywhere else Schengen and a temporary restriction placed in the passport.   Worst case would be 3 years as an approximate entry ban and/or a fine.   Probably they'd give British people X days to leave rather than remanding that person prior to deportation.  I believe some EU nationals have already been deported from the UK and presumably the same vice-versa.

In some countries (like Thailand), overstaying by huge amounts (years) can lead to 10 year bans.

If it was a couple of days, I'm sure they wouldn't bother to do anything just give you a warning to make sure you don't do it again.

They do ban people from entry if they overstay.
Unless they change their status, like get married.
My son's insane ex Hungarian wife lied to us when she visited the US for 6 months when she was just his GF with a finace visa.
She actually was only allowed in the US for 90 days. The whole 90 day finance thing.
Our son couldn't break with her so he came to Hungary ( he is also a HU citizen) for a year and got married to her so she could reneter the US as his legal wife .
She stayed with my boy in HU until all her paperwork for the US was in
hand.Green card, work permit ect.
Biggest mistake of his life but that's another story, once a liar always a liar.
My son's current wife is from Japan.
She visited the US 3 times in one year.
Well, her 3rd time over they pulled her aside at the airport and grilled her for hours before letting onto US soil.
They wanted to know why she was visiting the US so often.
Once again, my boy got married so he wouldn't lose his lady.
On the bright side the US treated both wives like welcome newbies after they were legally married to a US citizen. They were fonding   all over her at the US embassy in Budapest after she was married to a US citizen.
I wish HU has treated me half as nice.

we was in and she just said it wasnt enough proof to show i was living here, and the tenancy is not a official document

i looked into fiance visa but found nothing for hungary , i found family renufication but that is all.

Perhaps I am just simplistic, I think it will be a long time before you are kicked out, why you just do not stay, I would imagine if you are married to a Hungarian women it is good anyhow, by the way, I certainly would have thought you your future wife can also/should help I suppose she speaks Hungarian and can go with you to whatever authority, I have the impression you do things by yourself only, your to be wife should really be able to help.
I am married to a non EU citizen and although painful, I arranged everything (at the time Netherlands) to come over, yes time-consuming, but in this case you can do an extra step.

I am surprised that things are so difficult.
Another option is just to apply for a VISA based on invitation?

Again probably I am too simple but marriage to come to be should mean something.

Kieran Paget wrote:

we was in and she just said it wasnt enough proof to show i was living here, and the tenancy is not a official document

That seems to go against their own guidance and their own wording.   

They specifically mention rental agreements as evidence.

Of course all countries are different and I am from the EU. I lived in Hungary and moved to Turkey, I expected difficulties with bureaucracy, but no way, our real estate agent helped us through the way and very very fast, official rules are mind boggling (and scary) but if you know somebody it works (very fast). Between arrival and residency permit less than a month.


Honestly, your future wife should have at least acquaintances

Water bill, electricity, Hungarian bank statement on your Hungarian address should certainly help I would think.
I just do not understand this world or perhaps not the case at hand

If nothing works, just travel around you are married? Living in Turkey, Georgia, Egypt you can just in these times for EUR 400 pm easily (nothing wrong with an apartment of 50sqm) Most countries do not even a VISA for a 90 days stay.
Your future wife can also enjoy some holidays with you.

cdw057 wrote:

Water bill, electricity, Hungarian bank statement on your Hungarian address should certainly help I would think.
I just do not understand this world or perhaps not the case at hand

The problem the OP has  is a direct consequence of Brexit and no prior registration before 31 December  2020.   

EU member state citizens do not have this issue.

They might have it if the EU falls apart. At the moment,  the most likely to vote to leave is Italy followed by nationalistic Poland forcing itself out and same for Hungary due to egomania of OV.

Oh no she does all the things they are just hard to talk to even for her, as for the invatation letter we asked and she said it was for people with no country, also i will marry her, if i have to push it foward a year or two i will, but for now were trying otherways, she did agree we can jump ahead and get married if we had to, we planned to get married in 2023 but 2022 is ok also

that would mean quitting her job and spending future money, not a option tbh

Kieran Paget wrote:

Oh no she does all the things they are just hard to talk to even for her, as for the invatation letter we asked and she said it was for people with no country, also i will marry her, if i have to push it foward a year or two i will, but for now were trying otherways, she did agree we can jump ahead and get married if we had to, we planned to get married in 2023 but 2022 is ok also

If you get married, and there's nothing to keep you in Hungary, you might as well emigrate to some other country like Australia or NZ or Canada.  Longer term, they are far better bets than Hungary.   

BTW, it's easy to get married here - you don't need a fancy wedding, just do it at the registry office with a couple of witnesses. Get the paperwork done.  Think about having a party later.

I invited my sister in law from Eastern Europe (non-EU) into Hungary, and even if you have to deliver loads of documents (in Luxembourg it was much easier to do so) the invitation can be done by a private person (we did so ourselves (an extended present to my sister in law and husband). And I think from a country much more difficult than the UK.
The key thing is that the inviter has to make a guarantee for support, but then again it is family.

For the sub-topic of living in another country, I did not intend to say full together (are you not anyhow I would think), just for holidays

She definitely earns enough to keep us both going especially because we're in nograd country, we will reconsider the invatation letter i will show this to here tonight, out for the day in Budapest today.