Get healthcare cover for travelling abroad (EHIC UK)

SimCityAT wrote:

[..... if you currently have a UK issued S1 it's a swift and straightforward process. you need to tick the box that says you have an S1, give your name, your address, your date of birth, a phone number (optional) and your email address. You'll get an acknowledgement that you've completed your application and an application number. ....

Good info.

The S1 only applies if in receipt of a state pension.  I think this is really about UK pensioners in Spain - there are 100s of thousands of them there.

Whatever is going is really not cool as far as us EU expats are concerned.

Across the EU,  the EHIC UK finishes 31 December 2020, so the alternative is either to be in the state system locally or have private insurance or possibly travel insurance if coming and going.  Of all of these travel insurance is probably the most dodgy position to be in as it's no substitute for private or local system.   Comprehensive private would be unaffordable for many - £1000 and up a month or more.  Travel insurers could just decide not to pay.

Here, it's a bit of a problem for many people with long term conditions or reliant on say EHIC if they need things like dialysis or oxygen, which is provisioned by national governments using inter-EU system.   Whatever HMG (Her Majesty's Government is doing about this kind of thing to protect UK citizens in the EU no-one knows.

Here in HU, the voluntary contribution for self-employed is about 7700 HUF a month and a tax card is required as it's admin'd by NAV (the tax office).

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

[..... if you currently have a UK issued S1 it's a swift and straightforward process. you need to tick the box that says you have an S1, give your name, your address, your date of birth, a phone number (optional) and your email address. You'll get an acknowledgement that you've completed your application and an application number. ....

Good info.

The S1 only applies if in receipt of a state pension.  I think this is really about UK pensioners in Spain - there are 100s of thousands of them there.

S1 is for all, not just Spain.

SimCityAT wrote:

....
S1 is for all, not just Spain.

Oh yes, I know but now I read it again, I can see I wasn't clear in what I said.. my bad....I mentioned Spain because there's a large S1 qualifying population there compared to other places.   I wondered if this mechanism was all prompted by the  1000s of the UK pensioners who winter in Spain and return to the UK during the summer.  Could be a large problem. 

I read HMG's notes on S1 and it says if you're S1 in Spain, it's only there, it's not usable in another EU state.  So presumably you'd have to S1 yourself in all states when travelling or on extended stays.

I will have to try and look up the statistics on numbers of Brits abroad....ok did that...

In 2019, according to UN data, 1.3 million people born in the UK lived in EU countries. Spain hosted the largest group, at 302,000, followed by Ireland, with 293,000. France was third with 177,000, Germany was fourth with 99,000 and Italy was fifth with 66,000.

Loads in Spain....Ireland perhaps not a surprise....but Austria or Hungary? Dunno...but Ireland, 6% of the population is British but I expect that's mainly dual nationals....

Hi all.

If you register your S1 with the national medical "whatever", you get a EHIC from (for example) Spain, you would use that for emergency treatment in another member state.  If you move to another EU country after 1 Jan 2021, then all bets are off, you are in there with the rest of the 3rd country nationals and be paying your way.

There will still be S1's post-Brexit, but not for the "in receipt of a UK state pension"; people like UK civil servants working in other countries will be the principal users of the scheme.

Cynic wrote:

Hi all.

If you register your S1 with the national medical "whatever", you get a EHIC from (for example) Spain, you would use that for emergency treatment in another member state.  If you move to another EU country after 1 Jan 2021, then all bets are off, you are in there with the rest of the 3rd country nationals and be paying your way.

There will still be S1's post-Brexit, but not for the "in receipt of a UK state pension"; people like UK civil servants working in other countries will be the principal users of the scheme.

I thought you could NOT use the EHIC from Spain in another country.   But what do I know?  Nothing apparently. 

I just looked again at what it says at gov.uk and it says odd things

The wording is confusing - it seems to imply EHICs from Spain are still valid in the UK post 2021 but maybe not anywhere else?  Does the same thing apply to Hungary back to the UK?  Or is this Spain only? 

Doesn't say S1s apply only to those in government employ (as it's a retirement document when a state pension is being drawn).

Healthcare if you live and work in Spain

If you're working or self-employed in Spain, you're entitled to state healthcare on the same basis as a Spanish citizen. Your dependants are also entitled.

Register at your local health centre with your social security number. You can get a social security number from your local National Social Security Institute (TGSS) office in Spain.

Your dependants need to register separately.

Once you've registered, you'll get a health insurance card. Take it with you whenever you visit a doctor.

If you live in Spain or move there before the end of 2020, your rights to access healthcare in Spain will stay the same from 1 January 2021 for as long as you remain resident.

This means you'll:

o continue to get state healthcare in Spain on the same basis as a Spanish resident
o still be entitled to a Spanish EHIC for travel, including visits to the UK
o You may also have the right to apply for a UK S1 if you start drawing a UK State Pension.

Hi again.

Using Spain as the example; if you "reside" there before 1 Jan 2021, then you will be entitled to the "EU healthcare benefits", as of today, for as long as you reside there; if you move to France after that date, you get nothing from the UK, there is no new S1 form.  EHIC is only for "emergency medical cover" when you are in another EU nation; the UK has left the EU.  The NHS is only free at the point of delivery, for residents of the UK, not citizens of the UK.

I'm reasonably sure that the S1 will become as I previously described it wef end of this year; otherwise, there is no point in complaining as it would be no change to as is today.

Cynic wrote:

Hi again.

Using Spain as the example; if you "reside" there before 1 Jan 2021, then you will be entitled to the "EU healthcare benefits", as of today, for as long as you reside there; if you move to France after that date, you get nothing from the UK, there is no new S1 form.  EHIC is only for "emergency medical cover" when you are in another EU nation; the UK has left the EU.  The NHS is only free at the point of delivery, for residents of the UK, not citizens of the UK.

I'm reasonably sure that the S1 will become as I previously described it wef end of this year; otherwise, there is no point in complaining as it would be no change to as is today.

I'm not complaining, just responding to the original posting. 

I know much of that but I've also read the S1 is effective for the entire EU regardless under various scenarios one of which is to be in receipt of a state pension.   Implication is that would continue and they (HMG) even refer to EHIC continuance.

You can see it here for Hungary which is pretty much the same as the example for Spain.

Note the sentence on the gov.uk Hungarian pages:

EHIC if you have a registered S1

You need to get a new UK-issued EHIC that's valid for travel from 1 January 2021.

Wasn't referring to your complaining, but the general complaint of the withdrawal of the S1 and EHIC facility for UK citizens post-Brexit and how it's going to make remaining abroad impossible because of the potential costs of medical cover.

I just tried to apply for an EHIC for post 1 January 2020; not entitled.

Cynic wrote:

Wasn't referring to your complaining, but the general complaint of the withdrawal of the S1 and EHIC facility for UK citizens post-Brexit and how it's going to make remaining abroad impossible because of the potential costs of medical cover.

I just tried to apply for an EHIC for post 1 January 2020; not entitled.

I think you mean, EHIC post-2021.

As far as I know  currently there's only four ways to do something about the fall back of the UK EHIC (it was only ever a fall back anyway):

1.  Pay social security taxes in-country which will get you a TAJ card (might not suit circumstances) but could give you an EHIC for use elsewhere (probably no good in the UK post-2021 as no reciprocity known yet)

2.  Pay for private insurance (likely to be unaffordable - maybe HUF 250K a month guesstimate - with lots of caveats and limits, possibly useless)

3.  Travel insurance for short term visits (if unregistered, only 90 days in 180 days without Schengen visa or if registered and post-Brexit rights, potentially not available anyway for permanent residents or full of caveats on acceptable conditions).

4. S1 if with a UK government pension (unlikely route for most).

It's a right old muddle. Boris doesn't care about the 1.3M UK people who may be in Europe for long/short term stays.

BTW, free movement ends 31 December 2020 for sure.  UK parliament passed the law today.  EU folks wanting to go to the UK will now need a permit there.  It's all points based "Australia style".   

Sticks in my throat as it's no great shakes to suggest Australia style - their immigration rules are really oppressive ....oops...I mean strongly applied.   NZ is a bit better but not really.  No ye olde fogeys (I think upper limit is 48 in Aus and something like 55 in NZ at time of application).  Canada don't remember.  I think US has no age restriction on the Green Card lottery.   

UK might do some stuff which could be good like having simplified "self-certification" work permit applications for some countries in the Commonwealth.  They do this for places like India (if I am not misremembering).

Yep - the post 2021 EHIC, I'm not entitled to one; if you follow the link from the OP, it takes you to "apply for a new EHIC", this is the link I followed that tells me of my entitlement.

I must admit I've only ever tried to use the EHIC in the Netherlands and every time the doctor has asked us to pay them up front, then get the money back from the EHIC org.  After the 3rd time, I stopped using it and just waited till I got back to the UK; I did ask why, apparently we're not very good at paying our bills, perhaps it's the doctors assistant not being very good at admin.

Whatever, we get free travel insurance with our bank account, so we'll just use that going forward, although I expect some revisions to that post EHIC.

Cynic wrote:

Yep - the post 2021 EHIC, I'm not entitled to one; if you follow the link from the OP, it takes you to "apply for a new EHIC", this is the link I followed that tells me of my entitlement.

I must admit I've only ever tried to use the EHIC in the Netherlands and every time the doctor has asked us to pay them up front, then get the money back from the EHIC org.  After the 3rd time, I stopped using it and just waited till I got back to the UK; I did ask why, apparently we're not very good at paying our bills, perhaps it's the doctors assistant not being very good at admin.

Whatever, we get free travel insurance with our bank account, so we'll just use that going forward, although I expect some revisions to that post EHIC.

Some years ago post-EU accession I also tried to use a EHIC here in Hungary and it was pathetic.  You couldn't just turn up at the local GP, you had to go to the "regional GP" whoever that was. 

In the end, we couldn't fix it, so I went with Mrs Fluffy to a GP she knows and she had the consultation officially while the doc looked at me.  And as is common here, there was a tip involved - about 20 EUR equivalent.  Take some explaining if Mrs Fluffy had a gender specific (to me) exam or vice versa.  Luckily I had a infected cut I got falling off a wall (don''t ask) which was quickly resolved by antibiotics.    I took it as a close call.   Anything more and we'd be in the doo-doo.

My problem with travel insurance is that I don't trust them one inch.  It's incredibly risky that they could just say no when you've got a broken leg after falling off your bike.  There's no way to fly back to the UK with your leg half hanging off.

EHIC card weirdness:

I spoke to a relative who renewed their UK EHIC card just in case.  They said it says on the card that that it's valid to 2025.  They aren't retired and do not have an S1.  Validity way past 2020.

Bit of a WTF is going on moment of confusion cooking my noddle right now.

fluffy2560 wrote:

EHIC card weirdness:

I spoke to a relative who renewed their UK EHIC card just in case.  They said it says on the card that that it's valid to 2025.  They aren't retired and do not have an S1.  Validity way past 2020.

Bit of a WTF is going on moment of confusion cooking my noddle right now.

Our EHIC cards are valid till 2025 if we have lived in Austria for more than 5 years, then for less they are valid for 1 year. We have photos on the card now.

SimCityAT wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

EHIC card weirdness:

I spoke to a relative who renewed their UK EHIC card just in case.  They said it says on the card that that it's valid to 2025.  They aren't retired and do not have an S1.  Validity way past 2020.

Bit of a WTF is going on moment of confusion cooking my noddle right now.

Our EHIC cards are valid till 2025 if we have lived in Austria for more than 5 years, then for less they are valid for 1 year. We have photos on the card now.

Sounds more sophisticated.  But if you are in the EU system, then they would be valid for 5 years (for example).  I am surprised the UK issue past 31 December 2020.

Presumably no effort is being put into modernising UK EHIC cards. 

Over here in the land of the Goulashians, we have the TAJ card which is really a simple laminated and stamped card and the registration number on it.   So it's just a record of the number rather than the person - no photos or chip.  Card number appears on prescriptions. 

But HU EHIC cards don't have photos or chips here either - looks the same as a UK one.

I should have said our social card is on the same card of or EHIC.

SimCityAT wrote:

I should have said our social card is on the same card of or EHIC.

That explains much!

Unexpected Brexit consequence that surprised me:

I was watching a BBC documentary called Hospital and it concerned people getting kidney and liver transplants.   

Apparently people from countries like Greece are sent to the UK at the Greek government's cost to get transplants in UK hospitals and vice versa (to all EU countries).   Apparently the UK is a centre of excellence for this kind of medical treatment.  Brexit will have effectively removed this medical option from other EU partner countries.   I believe UK people are often sent to Belgium for medical work.  All stops I suppose end of December 2020.

Not cool.

When we lived in Enschede, they had an agreement with Germany for x-border medical support with Stadt Münster; there are similar agreements in the south with Belgian hospitals.

In general; there is real medical benefit in keeping such arrangements going; medical experts only become and maintain their expertise by doing the work for real.