Covid assessment

cdw057 wrote:

The thread of COVID and expatriation is extremely interesting, but sorry I think the posts often deviate from real COVID, I think I mentioned this earlier and rerouted posts to the thread mentioned. ....

Bottom line, sorry to say, I feel that the Covid expat thread is going off topic (re-iterating that reads are very interesting in general)

Yes they do wander in the COVID Expat thread (it was created by the moderators) but on the hand, any issue connected with COVID will be covered there.  Too many threads and there's no continuity for other readers. 

There's no automated way to redirect a specific posting to another thread except manually unfortunately. People do transfer threads out but it's a quite clumsy business but not impossible.

It would definitely be better if postings could be redirected or reposted under another existing topic by just using a "one touch" button.

cdw057 wrote:

As for me and my wife, we took our first Sputnik jab a few weeks ago and the second one is due coming Monday . 8 or 9 days after that hopefully we will receive a "green" card which hopefully co-incides with re-opening of restaurants and swimming pools.

You should receive the hungarian "green" card after the first dose already, but currently it's unclear if that'll offer you any privileges. My gues: it will as soon as the vaccination registration queue is exhausted and they'll need to incentivize willingness to vaccinate.

There had been some talk about ,"bribing" people in the US to get the jab by giving them $1,000.
Guess that is off the table since I no longer hear about that.
I think most of my family in the US has gotten stuck already.
I know one of my older cousins was shut indoors for ever with his wife until they got stabbed.
Now they are running all over Ca. in the RV and having some needed fun. He is in his mid 70's.
My other cousin and his wife are in the mid 70's in Vegas and since they have been jabbed they have traveled to Ca. to visit family.
Funny thing is all of my male cousins were,"bad as*es" in the military. One was a Sargent in the USMC.
All Vietnam vets.Now they are afraid of a little virus, The world has gone crazy.
My son in Japan said it isn't really a big thing to do over there to get a vac. Don't need a mask everywhere either.
Of course they are not allowing anyone to enter from  other  countries either, at least not tourists.
I suppose anytime we are ready we can get a shot or two, we are old enough and my doctor keeps asking if we've had ours yet. I'm still waiting on the jury.

There was an interesting topic on the German news afew days ago, vaccine holidays, EUR 2000 (two trips to Moscow staying in a hotel and get your vaccine delivered and administered), not per se bribe, but getting it earlier. If this is morally fine or not is another matter.

cdw057 wrote:

There was an interesting topic on the German news afew days ago, vaccine holidays, EUR 2000 (two trips to Moscow staying in a hotel and get your vaccine delivered and administered), not per se bribe, but getting it earlier. If this is morally fine or not is another matter.

Some Canadian millionaires tried to jump the queue in an unethical way too:

Canadian couple slammed for allegedly jumping vaccine line

Got an e-mail alert from the US embassy this morning.
Hungary is rated number 4- DO not travel to on their list because of C-19.
Not sure how that is going to boost tourism this summer here?
NY and Hawaii are starting a Covid passport to enter, I sort of understand Hawaii doing that since they used to quarantine pets for rabies for 4 months. In the "old days" many Hawaiians got ill from Howlies coming over and getting them ill with smallpox and other nasty things. Just like when the Europeans came to America, hundreds of years ago to settle, the explorers had already killed off a good 90% of the populatin by all the illnesses they brought with them. That's why the settlers didn't see many natives around, most had died in their own version of the plague.
Just when I believed things would get better , HU is now on the danger list.
Oh also heard in Isreal it is being reported that some people are coming down with herpes from their vax shots...Think it was the Pfizer shots.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Got an e-mail alert from the US embassy this morning.
Hungary is rated number 4- DO not travel to on their list because of C-19.
Not sure how that is going to boost tourism this summer here?
NY and Hawaii are starting a Covid passport to enter, I sort of understand Hawaii doing that since they used to quarantine pets for rabies for 4 months. In the "old days" many Hawaiians got ill from Howlies coming over and getting them ill with smallpox and other nasty things. Just like when the Europeans came to America, hundreds of years ago to settle, the explorers had already killed off a good 90% of the populatin by all the illnesses they brought with them. That's why the settlers didn't see many natives around, most had died in their own version of the plague.
Just when I believed things would get better , HU is now on the danger list.
Oh also heard in Isreal it is being reported that some people are coming down with herpes from their vax shots...Think it was the Pfizer shots.

I think it's an case of over managing it.   You can imagine if they said, fine, travel and then people died then it would be blame on the government.  I travel all over the world (before COVID anyway) and the number of travel advisories that say don't go here or there is ridiculous.   I've been in some pretty dodgy places like ex-war zones and yet felt no fear there but been more concerned driving around some backwood suburb of Miami (I thought I was on the set of Deliverance in some places - good ol' boys with their guns on their porches - just weird).

Maybe Hungary is bad news for travel as it looks more out of control but the UK and places like Israel are way out in front on vaccinations. 

If someone has had the vaccine and travels to say the UK then with normal COVID19 precautions the chances of them catching it is pretty low.

The real problem is that Russian and Chinese vaccinations are not approved in the EU or in many countries nationally.  So basically it means the vaccine certificates are not very valuable when travelling. It's as though you didn't have anything.

The herpes thing is fake news.  Question is which herpes? Nearly everyone is vaccinated against chickenpox in their early years so it's definitely not that one.  Reportedly it's the cold sore variety - not nice but hardly any reason to stop vaccinations.

Personally I like the Hungarian vaccine programme, however I am (really) worried on Russian/Chinese vaccines becoming approved within the EU. Perhaps naive, but in a few months time all will be OK. Egotistically I hope that with a Hungarian green card things will be open again
Personally I trust Sputnik, but the Chinese vaccines?

fluffy2560 wrote:

The real problem is that Russian and Chinese vaccinations are not approved in the EU or in many countries nationally.  So basically it means the vaccine certificates are not very valuable when travelling. It's as though you didn't have anything.

It's up to the member states to decide what vaccination they accept, Greece has already indicated that they'll accept chinese/russian: https://tass.com/world/1264109

And I promise that at least 70% of EU countries won't reject tourist money over bullshit like this.

cdw057 wrote:

Personally I like the Hungarian vaccine programme, however I am (really) worried on Russian/Chinese vaccines becoming approved within the EU. Perhaps naive, but in a few months time all will be OK. Egotistically I hope that with a Hungarian green card things will be open again
Personally I trust Sputnik, but the Chinese vaccines?

The HU programme stinks for a lot of reasons. 

But you shouldn't worry about the Russian and Chinese vaccines.  My crystal ball says they will not be approved an EU level.  Regardless of any technical acceptability, relations are terrible with both those countries at the moment so it'll be political decision. 

I cannot see any Western country want to create any dependence on Russia or China. Because of the current regime's policies of "Open East", I would not include Hungary as a Western country or at a push probably not even seen as a reliable NATO ally.   

Personally I think there will be a significant and major East-West conflict within 5 to 10 years.  It could even blow up more quickly than that.   This might be one reason the US is pulling out of Afghanistan.  The US can fight at least two major wars at once and on multiple fronts but not three itself (maybe it could do three with NATO). Afghanistan will just be a blip compared China or Russia.  The two fronts could be Ukraine or the South China Sea and possibly Hong Kong.

What really gets me is that this is all about people's egos and power grabs - Putin (aka Dobby) and Xi Jinping (Winnie the Pooh).

Austria will only use Sputnik V vaccine after EMA approval, Kurz says.

If I ever get a vax, it has to be approved to travel to the US with and Japan or I'm just not interested at all.
Yes, maybe that herpes thing has a "back story" to it and those infected don't want to fess up! Funny and a bit, "irratating",

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

If I ever get a vax, it has to be approved to travel to the US with and Japan or I'm just not interested at all.

Yes, waste of time to have a non-approved vaccine.  I have a number of relatives living in the UAE and they've all been given the Chinese one.   Doesn't give them a free pass to anything outside of the UAE and presumably unrecognised anywhere else.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Yes, maybe that herpes thing has a "back story" to it and those infected don't want to fess up! Funny and a bit, "irratating",

BTW, don't scratch that fake news, it'll leave a scar!

fluffy2560 wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

If I ever get a vax, it has to be approved to travel to the US with and Japan or I'm just not interested at all.

Yes, waste of time to have a non-approved vaccine.  I have a number of relatives living in the UAE and they've all been given the Chinese one.   Doesn't give them a free pass to anything outside of the UAE and presumably unrecognised anywhere else.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Yes, maybe that herpes thing has a "back story" to it and those infected don't want to fess up! Funny and a bit, "irratating",

BTW, don't scratch that fake news, it'll leave a scar!

Or you'll go blind!
My cousin the former Recovery room nurse at  John Hopkins just wrote me.
She hopes we got a vax, haven't told her yet that so far no and no plans unless it is wroth it for travel to places we intend to visit.
I'm not planning on going anywhere in the EU anytime soon.
She also mentioned her friend works in the Maryland state health dept. and says the cases are getting worst again in the US and more young people are very ill.
She said it is real and not a hoax.
IDK, so far so good on this end, we stay away frm people for the most part and try to take care of our health within reason.
Going in late next week for yet another eye exam, if I get the go ahead to fix my eye then I will believe things are getting better, until then, "I won't touch anyone with a 10 foot pole".

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

If I ever get a vax, it has to be approved to travel to the US with and Japan or I'm just not interested at all.

Yes, waste of time to have a non-approved vaccine.  I have a number of relatives living in the UAE and they've all been given the Chinese one.   Doesn't give them a free pass to anything outside of the UAE and presumably unrecognised anywhere else.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Yes, maybe that herpes thing has a "back story" to it and those infected don't want to fess up! Funny and a bit, "irratating",

BTW, don't scratch that fake news, it'll leave a scar!

Or you'll go blind!
My cousin the former Recovery room nurse at  John Hopkins just wrote me.
She hopes we got a vax, haven't told her yet that so far no and no plans unless it is wroth it for travel to places we intend to visit.
I'm not planning on going anywhere in the EU anytime soon.
She also mentioned her friend works in the Maryland state health dept. and says the cases are getting worst again in the US and more young people are very ill.
She said it is real and not a hoax.
IDK, so far so good on this end, we stay away frm people for the most part and try to take care of our health within reason.
Going in late next week for yet another eye exam, if I get the go ahead to fix my eye then I will believe things are getting better, until then, "I won't touch anyone with a 10 foot pole".

Maybe  I should qualify what I said - yes, worth having a vaccine to protect yourself wherever you are.  But non-recognised vaccines are a problem unless one wants to go to an EU holiday country like Greece. 

We weren't thinking of going to Greece.  Too far but might think about Croatia.  We only want to go to Spain and specifically Gran Canaria at the moment for holidays and the UK to see the folks.  It's a bit rubbish so maybe we'll scrub the holidays in favour of Balaton.   

We wouldn't mind doing a long road trip like we did a couple of years ago but quite a way to Gran Canaria by car - think it's 3000km plus a nice ferry ride.   We've driven to Spain before and it took 3 days.  Gran Canaria would take 5 days I'd have thought.

I think the mutations are a problem - India looks inundated  and they've been caught out.   It had to happen.  It'll sweep through Africa as well.  It could mutate and come back again.   It'd be crazy to be in a cycle of COVID versions for here to eternity.

Dog walking might take my mind off it.

I know, so this is the ,"new normal" to be let out for a short time with that carrot on the stick and then be told lockdown again?
How long is this BS going to go on for?
My issue is out of pure vanity.
Dang it, this old dog isn't getting any younger. Every year it seems when I look in the mirror I see some,"Time Damage" want to make hay while the sun is shinning and go mask free before I get so dang old I'm afraid I might go into shock seeing my face in the light of day.
I invested in expensive "cover that stuff up, makeup" and haven't used any of it for ages, don't see the point of trying to have creamy youthful skin when I can't show it off!
Like Steve Martin  used to say when he was in character,"It's better to look marvelous then to feel marvelous". I leave the house in a state I never would dare to 18 months ago.
I know people are dying and I only care about how I look, so sue me!

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I know, so this is the ,"new normal" to be let out for a short time with that carrot on the stick and then be told lockdown again?
How long is this BS going to go on for?
My issue is out of pure vanity.
Dang it, this old dog isn't getting any younger. Every year it seems when I look in the mirror I see some,"Time Damage" want to make hay while the sun is shinning and go mask free before I get so dang old I'm afraid I might go into shock seeing my face in the light of day.
I invested in expensive "cover that stuff up, makeup" and haven't used any of it for ages, don't see the point of trying to have creamy youthful skin when I can't show it off!
Like Steve Martin  used to say when he was in character,"It's better to look marvelous then to feel marvelous". I leave the house in a state I never would dare to 18 months ago.
I know people are dying and I only care about how I look, so sue me!

I reckon it is the new normal.  We'd all better get used to it.   You could say that each year when you look in the mirror you're just that bit more characterful and elegant.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course.   

I must say that age is catching up with me.  Everyone when they are younger feels they are invincible.  Takes perhaps 50 years to realise that's not true.  Worst thing is that I'm starting to  feel like I'm living my life through others (like our kids) as COVID life is becoming very boring.

Get up, endless cups of tea, breakfast,  work or whatever, lunch,   dog walking, mucking about, dinner, chat on Skype or phone or movies, sleep, start again.   

Might go at the weekend to check up on stuff at the Mrs Fluffy family Balaton house.

Dog walking off for the moment due as it's raining!  Could put a raincoat on.

Yes, I get it.
At least my husband thinks I'm the bomb!
What else do I want?
Time seems to be speeding fast towards God knows what.
I still remember when my sister tried to sneak me into over 21 clubs by blacking out my face and giving it shades..Making me wear her,"adult " clothing.
I just acted older and was tall otherwise no way I'd get into these clubs with her and her husband.
He managed local bands for a bit mid 60's or there abouts
I remember my sister and her husband fending off people wanting to talk to me while we listened to one of the bands he sponsered.
If mom only knew..
.

Still a bit unclear to me but on Saturday restaurant (terraces) will open, probably for all, but perhaps Orban will mention for fully vaccinated only (which would be I think the good thing to do). Apparently restaurants are already fully overbooked and I only intend to go 10 days after my second jab. (fully protected or not is another matter),

Still good that in any case part of the hospitality business is opening. As for holidays, nothing planned for this or for that matter next year, moving to another (more affordable) country remains on the agenda (and a widely recognized green passport would come in handy. Lets see how things develop.

cdw057 wrote:

Still a bit unclear to me but on Saturday restaurant (terraces) will open, probably for all, but perhaps Orban will mention for fully vaccinated only (which would be I think the good thing to do)

For all. And he has just anounced that when we reach 4 million vaccinated people (having received at least one dose), further services will open up to those with a vaccination ID (again, the one you receive after getting the first dose), like theaters, baths, sport events, etc.

Just read a depressing article from the Netherlands, GP's are allowed and do give the jabs, they typically contact their patients for an appointment (Sputnik and Chinese not allowed). Out of 200 72 no show, he had to throw (vaccines) them away

In many countries they would have loved to get them.

By the way on the vaccination ID, me and my wife got our first shot (coming Monday 2nd) but we did not get our ID yet (which to me makes a lot of sense, really should be 8/9 days after 2nd).
Lets see what happens, looking forward to re-opening and admittance. The best thing is that it will give people a good incentive. (many will disagree with me though)

cdw057 wrote:

By the way on the vaccination ID, me and my wife got our first shot (coming Monday 2nd) but we did not get our ID yet (which to me makes a lot of sense, really should be 8/9 days after 2nd).
Lets see what happens, looking forward to re-opening and admittance. The best thing is that it will give people a good incentive. (many will disagree with me though)

You should have received it after the first shot, I received mine about a week after the shot. Officially you're supposed to get it after the first one.

A lot of things would have made more sense to me, but Orban is also juggling a lot of problems, including the mental sanity and the livelihood of many (sure, his popularity, too), the current plan is a compromise, I hope cases won't skyrocket after the opening, but time will tell. I'll keep living isolated like a monk until the summer for sure...

On voluntary isolation, we are very much the same, shopping once per month (maximum), walking at 6 or 7 am, home deliveries when possible. Especially my wife is sick of it, but so am I. This is going on for more then a year (I also lost my job in the process). Nevertheless nothing to complain, we are still healthy, have a good home and animals. Electricity, gas, water and internet are still working (!!!)

Still nobody is protected (even if we feel (justified or not) semi-safe)

atomheart wrote:

cdw057 wrote:

Still a bit unclear to me but on Saturday restaurant (terraces) will open, probably for all, but perhaps Orban will mention for fully vaccinated only (which would be I think the good thing to do)

For all. And he has just announced that when we reach 4 million vaccinated people (having received at least one dose), further services will open up to those with a vaccination ID (again, the one you receive after getting the first dose), like theaters, baths, sport events, etc.

I believe Orban also announced yesterday that kids 16-18 can also be vaccinated - no mention of foreigners or those ineligible for a TAJ card. 

The vaccinated vs the non-vaccinated division is going to create problems in society.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The vaccinated vs the non-vaccinated division is going to create problems in society.

COVID is creating problems in society. 

For those speaking/understanding German ungarn-tv is excellent, they always start (week-days) with a Corona update. Also for the other topics sometimes interesting.

fluffy2560 wrote:

no mention of foreigners or those ineligible for a TAJ card.

You have no TAJ at all, not even an invalid one? You could still get it with the latter.

atomheart wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

The vaccinated vs the non-vaccinated division is going to create problems in society.

COVID is creating problems in society. 

Sure, but some people will not be able to have the vaccine for whatever reason.  So what happens to them?   They could - for example - be refused access to public services and be marginalised.  How far would the division go?

atomheart wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

no mention of foreigners or those ineligible for a TAJ card.

You have no TAJ at all, not even an invalid one? You could still get it with the latter.

No, I don't have one.  That's despite me having all of the other cards - address, registration, tax etc.

I was refused one by the HU government/Health Fund about 6 weeks ago.  That's the second time I've been refused.

It's taken me and Mrs Fluffy about 3 months to actually find out why and we had to contact their legal department to actually find out specifically their reasoning.   

We will have another go at getting one in the coming weeks.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Sure, but some people will not be able to have the vaccine for whatever reason.  So what happens to them?   They could - for example - be refused access to public services and be marginalised.  How far would the division go?

I guess that should be our least concern until the pandemic is dealt with. Full-ish lockdown for one more year or discrimination, pick one. Also, I have no concrete numbers, just a feeling, but I tend to think that the ones that can't receive the vaccine are a very small percentage, the majority of the unvaccinated are anti-vaxxers who I can't sympathize with in any way.

An acquaintance of mine has died recently of COVID, she was in her thirties, in good health, she was pregnant. The baby was delivered via c-section and is fine. Her husband also caught COVID, was hospitalized for a week, couldn't breathe. The both were very careful, worked from home, took all the precautions, still caught the virus.

Shared this as a reminder as to how brutal this virus is...

fluffy2560 wrote:

No, I don't have one.  That's despite me having all of the other cards - address, registration, tax etc.

I was refused one by the HU government/Health Fund about 6 weeks ago.  That's the second time I've been refused.

It's taken me and Mrs Fluffy about 3 months to actually find out why and we had to contact their legal department to actually find out specifically their reasoning.   

We will have another go at getting one in the coming weeks.

I'd seriously consider going to Serbia for a jab, they still vaccinate anyone, including foreigners, but you might get Sputnik or the chinese one.
Another possibility is standing in line at a vaccination center with someone who speaks hungarian, maybe they won't refuse you, but again, you might get russian/chinese vaccine. Which is still better than getting the virus...

Edit: one more idea, Mrs Fluffy, assuming she speaks hungarian, should send an e-mail to her GP and her office inquiring about your options. Again, you'd have better chances if you were not picky about which vacccine to accept, but accepting AstraZeneca could already put you on the list! I'm saying e-mail because doctors are currently overwhelmed and have no capacity for phone calls.

atomheart wrote:

....
I'd seriously consider going to Serbia for a jab, they still vaccinate anyone, including foreigners, but you might get Sputnik or the chinese one.
Another possibility is standing in line at a vaccination center with someone who speaks hungarian, maybe they won't refuse you, but again, you might get russian/chinese vaccine. Which is still better than getting the virus...

Edit: one more idea, Mrs Fluffy, assuming she speaks hungarian, should send an e-mail to her GP and her office inquiring about your options. Again, you'd have better chances if you were not picky about which vacccine to accept, but accepting AstraZeneca could already put you on the list! I'm saying e-mail because doctors are currently overwhelmed and have no capacity for phone calls.

Mrs Fluffy is indeed a local person and she and our kids speak Hungarian perfectly of course.  She has been dealing with the Health Fund etc.  We know that I'm a vulnerable person as I have pre-existing conditions and age which put me at a much higher risk from COVID19.

We're not without resources and abilities to think of solutions.  We do know people in the medical profession who are flexible but even the flexible ones are not willing apart from one and that one cannot give a certificate of vaccination which limits the value for travel (i.e. useless for work purposes).  I'd even say we're getting an impression there's a sense of fear about monitoring of vaccine supplies.

We've attempted multiple ways to get the vaccine.  The government controls all supplies and there are no private providers.   

GPs are under strict orders not to give the vaccine to people without a TAJ card.  There is no way around it.   All the vaccinations are registered and there is no way to issue a certificate to anyone without a TAJ card.   My embassy (UK) as usual has no information and there is no alternative paths to a solution.

The only way for me to get the vaccination is to fly to another country.   Serbia would be an option but I believe that this open vaccination programme is now being limited.   I've considered going back to the UK but that's hard work as they have difficult quarantine requirements and high cost testing and it's hard to find anywhere to stay (hotels closed). I also considered trying to go to say, Thailand, as they are rumoured to provide vaccinations in private hospitals.  Travel restrictions make all that rather difficult.

I could go on about it - part of O1G's nationalist agenda or some other thing like that - but it makes me tired living with his BS and being treated as a second class person in this place.  I've given up for the moment trying to find a way to become eligible via other methods while we see what the Health Fund says in the next round of paperwork ping pong. 

I expect the travel restrictions  will ease in the UK in mid to late May.   When that happens I might make it there.  In the mean time I will just keep away from other people.

I have heard quite a bit of refusing vaccines or not being available, my trombose/heart problems might have helpt in putting me in the line, amazingly they also took my wife as a addendum (I was quite happy about that). Again, speaking to some of my acquaintances it is not so easy to get a jab even if Hungary seems to be a front-runner.
HOWEVER my personal advice for those with a TAJ card would be just to wait, commercial incentives for GP's are there I am pretty convinced. Just give a call to your GP. (Even my gardener who is quite young got an appointment for mid-May).
I do not know about your age, me I am 58 (but to my "benefit") with some health challenges.

Service was absolutely great with the first jab I have to say.

Bottom line advice (very subjective), get an appointment but avoid Chinese, Pfizer, Moderna and Sputnik are fine in my view.

OK without a TAJ card things are more challenging, and honestly to obtain a TAJ card in these times will also take a number of weeks (apart from the stress attached). Not all of the readers are above 65, but for the "German" neighbours it is more a matter of choice (they are all covered), I would say 65% want the vaccine (even if some registered very late), some of them do not want (which amazes me, but that is just me).

Just read the below
https://dailynewshungary.com/breaking-h … -immunity/

I really have another perception, I believe GP's get paid by the number of patients they register, I do not know where you live, but here (close to Heviz) you are swamped by GP's or others to register and attend. Perhaps it is even a possibility to give a call to a local GP (Mihaly Hegedus in my case but many others available).
One of our (Hungarian) neighbours was also being pushed to take a vaccine (by a village doctor which she tends to visit (NOT Heviz).
Very different experiences, in this area those who do not get do not want, those who want will get (and are contacted (admittedly if registered with TAJ (which we did VERY EARLY in the process)