COVID-19 and expatriation in Mexico

Actually Loic,

I feel more stable here. Mexico has had major trauma more than once in its history so they adjust and move on. Not so much accepting everything but saying, ok that road is closed so how do I get where I'm going without it.

They do some times follow the lead of the U.S. but then later they question why? they got on to the toilet paper craze but it didn't last long. There is food on the shelves here.

The people of Mexico have more or less decided to not allow Americans to cross the border. They feel it puts them at risk. Some small towns have gone beyond that to put signs on their main road blocking the entrance. Sadly a small town south of me doesn't want to let anyone in. Fear can do that. I would say this is not the time to try to move to Mexico. If you are already here hunker down and stay put if you can. Those with expiring visas may have a problem. I have heard some countries are refusing their citizen's return. I Have no direct experience with that, but it would not be surprising.

I  have no idea what the future will be but I do know there is no way I could just return to the U.S. travel isn't free and open now. It will be months or perhaps years before all of this is resolved and we will have to insist on being involved in these decisions where ever we are

Hello all!!!! I am French and a legal permanent resident of Mexico for 12 years now. Never have considered returning to France, especially not now. I always felt safer in Mexico than anywhere else. I am a house hunter (not a realtor) and business is so going down. Oh no!!!!!  Many many cancelations. The only potential people interested in relocating to Ensenada are the ones who are already in Mexico and who haven't traveled abroad at least in the last 2 weeks and have no intention to do so (ideally). I am still acquiring new properties for rent, so I ll be fully ready when this terrible crisis is over. And if I am still alive of course. Stay safe everyone.

I spend 5 months in MX each year and just returned to the USA on March 31st.  There have been so many conflicting reports as to numbers of COVID19 cases and deaths.  It's difficult to get the truth.  I want to return next November and will just have to wait and see if AMLO has stepped up in keeping the public safe.   Currently, as of today, April 13th,  I hear close to 300 deaths but many say this is a false report.  My concern is the economy and whether tourists and long-time visitors will want to return to areas where beaches, shops, restaurants, and activities have closed down.   I hope this discussion continues well into the next year.   I invite any expats to keep me and all of us posted.  😊 Thanks.  Arlene

I believe that the short-term devastation from the coronovirus quarantine will ultimately be MUCH more dramatic than the disease itself, certainly in terms of the economy.  The entire reason I was considering relocating to Mexico was how the global slowdown was gradually eroding my business.  But all of the financial bubbles present in the US, from equities to bonds to real estate, all eventually had to burst, and this sudden outbreak was just the "pin" to break these overinflated bubbles.  This total business shutdown, worldwide, will cause such a catastrophic monetary disruption, that even if this entire pandemic was to disappear tomorrow, the long-lasting effects to the global economy will dramatically alter the financial destinies of every major nation in the world, permanently.

If you seek the single reason for this major calamity, all one has to do is watch the movie of 2015, "The Big Short," which powerfully described how the illegality and malfeasance of the investment bankers brought down the entire economy, and has once again reared its ugly head.  The Federal Reserve Bank, which will simply continue its policy of printing fake money and disseminating it to their rich friends, will ultimately use this unlimited power to buy up every physical and paper asset in existence, making them the largest and wealthiest property owners in world history.

As far as Mexico is concerned, this virus could eventually have the same negative effects, but with many of its population already living at poverty levels, and a vastly less developed health care system, if the global epidemic becomes more pronounced, the effects could be far more serious, their visible lack of emergency readiness less prepared than ours, even with our vast storehouse of wealth and resources.  My biggest fear about this virus is, however, is in its incredible ability to spread quickly, rendering most of our safeguards to prevent or stop it, moot.  Worst still is this disease's innate ability to MUTATE, which worries me even more.  In the end, who knows where the spread of it will lead, or of its final toll on the people of the world?

NYC Rob wrote:

I believe that the short-term devastation from the coronovirus quarantine will ultimately be MUCH more dramatic than the disease itself, certainly in terms of the economy.  The entire reason I was considering relocating to Mexico was how the global slowdown was gradually eroding my business.  But all of the financial bubbles present in the US, from equities to bonds to real estate, all eventually had to burst, and this sudden outbreak was just the "pin" to break these overinflated bubbles.  This total business shutdown, worldwide, will cause such a catastrophic monetary disruption, that even if this entire pandemic was to disappear tomorrow, the long-lasting effects to the global economy will dramatically alter the financial destinies of every major nation in the world, permanently.

If you seek the single reason for this major calamity, all one has to do is watch the movie of 2015, "The Big Short," which powerfully described how the illegality and malfeasance of the investment bankers brought down the entire economy, and has once again reared its ugly head.  The Federal Reserve Bank, which will simply continue its policy of printing fake money and disseminating it to their rich friends, will ultimately use this unlimited power to buy up every physical and paper asset in existence, making them the largest and wealthiest property owners in world history.

As far as Mexico is concerned, this virus could eventually have the same negative effects, but with many of its population already living at poverty levels, and a vastly less developed health care system, if the global epidemic becomes more pronounced, the effects could be far more serious, their visible lack of emergency readiness less prepared than ours, even with our vast storehouse of wealth and resources.  My biggest fear about this virus is, however, is in its incredible ability to spread quickly, rendering most of our safeguards to prevent or stop it, moot.  Worst still is this disease's innate ability to MUTATE, which worries me even more.  In the end, who knows where the spread of it will lead, or of its final toll on the people of the world?

NYC,
you really seem to know little about Mexico. "their visible lack of emergency readiness less prepared than ours, even with our vast storehouse of wealth and resources. "
Mexico has had a very good medical system and has been far more prepared than the U.S. which at this point is the worst prepared of all.. Part of the reason they are better prepared is they don't always believe what they have been told, and due to the fact that they have been through a lot during their history their response is more consistent. Yes, it will hurt them financially but the people are excellent at creating workarounds. Apparently you didn't hear that the U.S. readiness was shut down quickly by the current administration years ago and they ignored multiple warnings. They have demonstrated that they have no idea what they are doing.

Mexico has far fewer cases than the U.S. and part of keeping it that way has been telling visitors to go home. There is a lot of data manipulation in every country and the numbers can not be trusted. What the pandemic consists of mainly is hysteria. Not grounded research and actual statistics. Shaming others and threatening others has become a big problem especially in the U.S.
I suggest you spend your free time at home reading reliable sources. Start with really knowing what has and is happening in the U.S.

This is extremely good news!  I have only vacationed in Mexico, never actually lived there.  I can only extrapolate from how poorly the US is handling this pandemic with Mexico's evidently superior emergency preparedness.  I did not realize that Mexico's ability to deal with any sort of massive medical emergency is far better than ours, which is probably due to the "for profit" basis of the entire US medical insurance industry. 
That said, it is also obvious that you DID NOT read the first paragraph of my response, which made it extremely clear that I DO NOT agree with the US government's handling of this issue, which I truly believe was a PLANNED event.  So don't arbitrarily attempt to lump me in with the rest of ignorant Americans who only watch mainstream media television and never question authority.
If you'd care to read about the basis of my theory, please Google:  "Operation Sea Spray, 1950 US Navy Experiment."  Anyone who cannot draw the obviously comparisons between these two events cannot consider themselves fully aware of the many clandestine events that our own governments have caused, without our knowledge, permission, or consent.

Rob
Yes, The Big Short was an eye-opener for sure.
So, do you still reside in NYC and will you consider relocating to another Central or South American country?
Arlene

Mexico is not better prepared to handle this pandemic than the US is, and neither is its medical system worth much at all, even under normal circumstances.   The failings of its system are obvious from just looking at the lack of treatment Mexico's diabetics routinely get and how it does not treat well at all those who have chronic pain conditions.    It takes almost an act of God to get pain medication of any strength there.   The US is in an awful mess, but Mexico is much worse off even.     The conditions of mass poverty and cramped living spaces are a horrifying disaster for Mexico just waiting to crash.

Thanks for your input on this, Anthony.  But I think you're about to be ATTACKED by "travellight."

I live in between Mexico and the US and immediately headed back to El Paso right before it got bad.   Me and my wife had been in Puebla, Tlaxcala, and Veracruz states during Carnaval and for 2 and 1/2 weeks following.

Anybody with eyes open and mind functioning should be able to see that Mexico is wide open for total disaster to hit.   The living conditions here, as in almost all of Latin America as well are impoverished, cramped, and unhygienic for the majority of people.   The US, despite its dysfunctional corporate run medical system is still much better to handle those who get really sick from Covid 9.     Even with a Psycho KKKlown heading up the government with his fellow klansmen in commanding positions.

I've never been anywhere else but Mexico, arlenruby.  I know a lot of folks are moving to everywhere from Costa Rica to Columbia, but I know Mexico's customs pretty well and have come to love it, from the language, to the people, to the food.  Has this entire crisis made it impossible for Americans to  move there anytime soon?  Many thanks.

Our plans for the future on currently on hold.  We were looking at January 2021 regarding our travel plans.  Mexico was one of the possibilities.  Now we are waiting and watching to see how things play out.

Anthony Held wrote:

Mexico is not better prepared to handle this pandemic than the US is, and neither is its medical system worth much at all, even under normal circumstances.   The failings of its system are obvious from just looking at the lack of treatment Mexico's diabetics routinely get and how it does not treat well at all those who have chronic pain conditions.    It takes almost an act of God to get pain medication of any strength there.   The US is in an awful mess, but Mexico is much worse off even.     The conditions of mass poverty and cramped living spaces are a horrifying disaster for Mexico just waiting to crash.

If reality is an attack I guess NY is right. Are you a permanent resident Anthony? have you been to a hospital? I see you are staying in one of the more risky areas in Mexico. So if you had any medical treatment tell us about it instead of just saying there isn't any. You might want to read what an actual American patient had to say. https://www.mexinsurance.com/blog/exper … ical-care.

As for what I think, it is based on doctors I have met and care I am aware of, T.J. has many clinics helping people get off of the narcotics the U.S prescribed. They also have many impressive hospitals as do many areas in the  Yucatan.  I have seen many positive first-hand reports from ex-pats.

Are you diabetic with pain?  that seems your focus. let us know your experience

I have had an extensive background in Medicine in the U.S. I have seen the care given to two patients here. The one doctor, in particular, was very attentive and spoke three languages. He was very skilled and had taken classes in nutrition on an advanced level which would be very rare for a doctor in the U.S.

Yes, the care has shifted in Mexico since the new administration, but in the U.S. they fight for no care at all.

Our plans to move to Mexico are on hold until there is a break in the pandemic. Our appointments at the Mexican Consulate in San Antonio for our temporary residency were cancelled until further notice. The Embassy remains closed. We had hoped to be in Ajijic, Mexico by July. Our 40th anniversary is on July 26th and we wanted to celebrate it at "Santos Coyote" a restaurant in Guadalajara. Despite the setback we are still packing up our townhouse in preparation for the trip. We plan to lease our property here in Texas. We have taken the opportunity to do some touch up painting and cleaning. We want to be ready when the window of opportunity presents itself to move on with our plans.

good luck Tauranga,

They canceled all reservations and gave tourists about a week to get out, So those of us remaining are on permanent or long term visas.
Last I heard they were vaguely talking about a 3-month restriction, Restaurants are closed, stores are closed, markets are controlling access. All hotels are closed.

you might want to have a more long term view about your plans;

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/corona … -measures/

It's been widely reported and well-known that Lopez Obrador did away with Seguro Popular, implemented his new public hospital with centralized federal control, and dramatically reduced public health funding because of concerns over corruption. Add to that fact that Mexico has had a pretty feeble (and in the beginning outright dismissive) response to the pandemic AND the fact that large swaths of the population aren't taking social distancing seriously. If Mexico's numbers for cases and deaths don't skyrocket even more, it'll just be due to lack of testing and reporting.

AMLO just talked the other day about wanting to reopen economic activity on May 10 (because it's Mother's Day) which was strikingly similar to Trump's itch to reopen economic activity by Easter (special day!). Here's an article (in Spanish) on AMLO's and Trump's similar behavior: https://www.washingtonpost.com/es/post- … a-crisis/.

AMLO has also requested Trump to sell him 10,000 ventilators. It'll be interesting to find out the response which was due today, I think.

Heh Logic. The pandemic has made us cancel two trips to Mexico: a trip to Los Cabos early April and another visit to Puerto Vallarta in May. Our Mazatlán  condo is in it's final stages of completion, but further work has been suspended, and further prep and plans for move is also on hold. Mazatlán friends and condo folk are saying the city looks like a ghost town and now we hear Sinaloa's governor has suspended liquor sales. We are anticipating a visit end of August if things are better and booked another attempt to a stay in our other favorite city, Puerto Vallarta in November. Like most people in Mexico and US, we stay self quarantined in Minnesota. Spring is here, snow is gone so getting outside is easier again. Keep the faith! And stay safe/healthy. We will get through this.
Billyjoek

Good points Mejms.

But like the wizard of OZ story, there are many answers hidden. There is information out there that makes the whole virus picture not quite fit. Whether we will ever know the truth or not remains in question.

Like the U.S. the governers here are implementing virus policies. Amlo has reduced the medical care people have had for a long time. People are being charged for care that had been freely available in the past. on top of that people are being told to stay home.

So what are people doing? finding workarounds for the stay at home order. They can't just sit at home. Little stores are delivering their products, the meat market is selling out of a little window. They are washing their hands more which definitely was a good thing. You can't just starve at home.

As for increased numbers of deaths. it depends on how they work the data. That's part of what's behind the wizard's curtain.

We have a new home in Huatulco Oaxaca. We're planning on being there permanently in April. We are now homeless in the US, but very glad to have sold our house before CA real estate crashes. Staying with friends a waiting to see when we can return. Our little neighborhood is closed and blockaded. Most everything closed, no alcohol sales.

Very confused about plans, and COVID numbers in CA. We keep extending the surge dates, because we have no surge. Our ER is nearly empty, 6 to 9 beds utilized in ICU. But still everything is shut down. People, business and jobs devastated. The lack of preparation from our massive medical group toward its employees was rather shocking. We have gone the full gamut from being threatened with dismisal if we dare to wear a mask, to being required to mask daily. 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️ It has not felt like we were prepared. But it did become quite apparent how willing they were to sacrifice their employees as we were just another tool in the process of healthcare money making.

yes, Ddufur,

Looking for facts amid the propaganda is the right direction to go. Try to help friends and family do the same. The biggest problem is the hysteria. Instead of yielding to that people need to be looking at the evidence in front of them which you seem to be doing.

we can weather the problem if we pull together and we don't listen to the daily propaganda. Hang in there.  it's about money and power, not a "virus"

My plans to move to Mexico have not changed except that in a round about way it may actually move up the time frame I am looking at for making that move.

As far as how COVID-19 is affecting me? Very little as it turns out. I am an introvert and a border line hermit to begin with, so this whole self-isolate thing is not a problem for me in the least.

For any of you out there who have been, or know some one who has been negatively affected by the disease, my thoughts are with you and yours!

Here's a good overview of Mexico and its handling of the coronavirus fallout. It's in English and from late March. Gives lot of context for those unfamiliar with a large part of Mexico's health care system. AMLO continues to hold the line that companies will be not bailed out or offered tax relief. Lots of tension brewing.

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/26/21193823/ … ealth-care

Halfwaytree wrote:

My plans to move to Mexico have not changed except that in a round about way it may actually move up the time frame I am looking at for making that move.

As far as how COVID-19 is affecting me? Very little as it turns out. I am an introvert and a border line hermit to begin with, so this whole self-isolate thing is not a problem for me in the least.

For any of you out there who have been, or know someone who has been negatively affected by the disease, my thoughts are with you and yours!

Well, Halfway that will be Mexico's decision not yours like it or not.
They are tightening up in some areas and loosening up in others. They have a color-coded map of the level of restrictions that should be released soon.

I suspect that a decision on tourists will be months down the line. Currently, Baja and Quintana roo, two major tourist areas are red zones. Red is the most restricted. I haven't seen the map yet but I'm sure those are not the only red zones. My state is mostly yellow I'm told.  yet most businesses are still closed, but there is talk of opening schools soon.

If you have any illnesses like hypertension, diabetes, obesity, etc. you would have sort of your own red cloud. If you are 60 or older you would be as they call it in a protected group.

My city has 6 alledged cases. they plan to convert one of the small local hospitals to a "COVID" hospital which may be an unwise decision given that there are terrorized groups making threats about that.  Not exactly terrorists, but people who are hysterically frightened. Probably some of the same people throwing bleach on medical personnel and barricading their homes because they are felt to be a risk to their neighbors. Closed hotels are offering rooms to medical staff.

That's the reality.

“
If you seek the single reason for this major calamity, all one has to do is watch the movie of 2015, "The Big Short," which powerfully described how the illegality and malfeasance of the investment bankers brought down the entire economy, and has once again reared its ugly head. ” ???
So you are saying “this calamity” is contrived and intentional for economic gain of the wealthy???
NONSENSE!!!

Hi Tauranga: You are not Kiwi, are you? Tauranga NZ is a wonderful town. Anyway, we are also in your same predicament waiting to move to Ajijic. We got our Permanent Residency visa from the MX Consulate in Boston just before the outbreak, and we have until September 1 to enter MX and start the process at Immigration.  We are also packing up our condo and just waiting for the break.  Our plan was to drive (we have MX plates) through Texas and on to Chapala. So we are waiting for two things: (1) Interstates and truck stops are open from Boston to Laredo.  (2) Border open. (3) No check points between GDL airport and Ajijic. (4) Lake Chapala Society to reopen.  God know when all that will happen :-)

yes  HFredrick, that is the problem.

At some point, the sunlight will breakthrough and cause them to wake up and see the problem. Until then they will continue the pattern many countries have followed.
Everyone will have a mask ( I only do that when forced to at the Market). Many Borders between cities are still closed. Yucatan isn't allowing people to the north to go to Merida. In Merida, cars must have only one person. Everyone must have a mask.  Everyone must have a good reason to be out doing anything. Parks are closed.
It's not as bad here as it is in Merida but it seems that phase 3 is a long phase and it is very hard on everyone.
The media did mention that heat and sun do reduce infection and of course ventilation. So you have to ask if that is so, and it has been for at least a millennium, why confine keeping people in their homes?

Hi there!    I am still planning to move to San Miguel, hopefully in the next 3 months.  With the Leon airport being closed, it is delaying my trip to secure long term housing.     I live in California and CANNOT wait to leave.    I have a question for you:  Do I need to get a resident Visa?  Thanks!  Laura

Welcome to ex-pat Laura,

If your Mexican consulate is open it wouldn't hurt to ask them about a longer visa, you might qualify for. Last I heard many consulates in the U.S. were closed but it doesn't hurt to check.

Immigration in my area was closed now it seems it's running some of the time with a skeleton crew.

You just have to keep checking.

If Mexico is smart and plays it's cards correctly they could become the new power player in manufacturing.   If the rest of world realizes we should have never relied on China as a
single source for so many products and spreads the work around, as it should have been, then MX is in a great position.

jamesr3939 wrote:

If Mexico is smart and plays it's cards correctly they could become the new power player in manufacturing.   If the rest of world realizes we should have never relied on China as a
single source for so many products and spreads the work around, as it should have been, then MX is in a great position.

Good point, unfortunately probably not under the current administration.

Hi Laura,

I just checked via Orbitz to see if the airport at Queretaro is receiving flights and it is.  It's also a bit shorter by car from its airport to SMA than the Leon airport. 

I did not check about flights from CA into Mexico.  I think they still may be blocked.  I did see that non-essential land crossings are also blocked. 

Steve

Hi Laura,
I'm Anita. I too was planning on relocating to Mexico within the next month or so. You are heading to SMA and I am heading to Gto. I am in Sacramento. Where are you currently? I have a great contact who is willing to drive my dog and me down there. I would fly but I wouldn't be able to take my beloved dog.
Anita

You might want to read what an actual American patient had to say. https://www.mexinsurance.com/blog/exper … ical-care.

Excellent article....thank you so much for sharing it.

I've always said it's about time that a true alliance is formed that includes the most northern tip of Alaska, all of Canada, the USA, Mexico, Central America and South America to the most southern tip of Chile. All this overseas trade is stupid.

Well, I'll share my two pesos from here in Puerto Peñasco, Sonora. First, beach closures are federal so as to them opening it depends on the government not the individual governors. Here we have been on lock down since March 15th, with it getting tighter and tighter as it goes. First the beaches closed and the tourists were sent home. Then the roadblocks or "sanitation fences" were put up. As we live outside of the city limits this road block affects us because we rent in a subdivision (no, we aren't the rich Americans that can afford to live in condos, we live amoung the raza of Mexico). Then it became one car per family could go into town, once a day and only one person per car. Both of my jobs went on hold. I taught Spanish to a handful of young men and had a small baked goods business selling American style cookies and quick breads.  Since April 16th we opened a small convienence store (aburrotes) out of our home to keep me sane and to help supply the people that can't pass the road block or forget to get something at the store. Since they send people that are travelling to Puerto Penasco for some reason or another that fail the test at the road block to our subdivision to rent (or be quarentined for 14 days) we have become the only sorce of food for them. They are saying that Phase 1 of reopening our town, which by the way depends heavily on the tourist dollar, will start on May 18th so we will see. As we have only had two cases of Covid-19 I guess all the protection may have amounted to something.

grmafluffy wrote:

As we have only had two cases of Covid-19 I guess all the protection may have amounted to something.

Reported cases in Mexico really mean nothing, since the country tests less than any other country in OECD at just 0.5 of every 1,000 people. The federal government has said that they are not interested in testing at a higher rate and will only test those with severe symptoms.

Hi
We are in Folsom. Were planning on being in Huatulco by now, but are stuck here. Hope to be able to fly in June. There are flights available, we will see if they cancel.
Can't get our visas started, the consulate is closed.
We are homeless here in the states, so anxiously awaiting the ability to travel.

mejms wrote:

grmafluffy wrote:

As we have only had two cases of Covid-19 I guess all the protection may have amounted to something.

Reported cases in Mexico really mean nothing, since the country tests less than any other country in OECD at just 0.5 of every 1,000 people. The federal government has said that they are not interested in testing at a higher rate and will only test those with severe symptoms.

in actually for a number of reasons testing means little pretty much everywhere, so not testing without symptoms seems reasonable. The tests were designed for DNA testing. The main one being used is a PCR test,  Plus some of the tests the CDC passed out were contaminated with the suspected agent. Other than needing to lighten up on restrictions, Mexico is doing ok.