How true that culture makes marriage collapse

Come on give me a break..most of men they would not do anything with out consulting with the wife..Some they fear the wife..

Some they fear the wife...in what perspective? We know that lol,   it is common anywhere certainly no consultation when he is at fault!

Abt d culture, the distracting issue from some reality is why some couples with different world ends up in sad marriage?  I have admiration for Jordan people  because their family culture ties are very strong that maintained even after children have married.  Also because they care the family's honor would be diminished, the marriage, work, education, etc.  all remained family affairs and with exerted significant authority thus  all under control of the family. Got it?

Yes I know EXACTLY what you are going through. And unfortunately, no matter how much they love you, if it meant choosing between spending time with you(lets say you all haven't been spending hardly anytime together over the past six months because of his work) okay and then his sister has this small graduation party from her community college. Lets say you haven't spent time with him AT ALL. But could either lie and say he's somewhere else, and in reality he'll go to his sisters graduation party with or without your approval. (I couldnt attend his sisters grad party because of his mom who has tried to break up our marriage numerous amounts of times, so I just cut them off > But I would encourage him to go and spend time with them, but inside it would be hard because we had hardly spent time together.

GOD I have such a night mare of a story to tell you but I got through it with just stubbornness and gutted out sought after patience that came from God's good Mercy.

But we love each other so madly.

One time we had plans to go buy clothes for the winter and we'd go to this huge souq that sells used new clothes. And all of sudden he got this call from a cousin that his younger 18 year old brother was in the hospital. (WE had just bought lunch and we were about to go home to eat and then go to the souq--right and instead of him verifying the actual condition of his brother's well being...he just dropped me so quickly and he was so nervous and upset and he just dropped me off at home like I didn't even matter. I wanted to go with him but he wouldn't let me! And I had felt so angry because in the end his brother only had a few broken limbs and was fine. But no, he had to just dump me off and drive all the way to Jerash( 1 hour and some away) and he didn't even have the money for gas(not even his car--a momayez taxi that requires 40JDs a day to run) And he said he had to leave right away cause he was afraid his dad would go and kill or shoot the people who caused his brother's car accident. So I'm like well Why the hell would you get yourself caught in the crossfires and even maybe end up getting shot in the process or even assault the people who caused the accident all for the sake of your brother??Who am I? Chop Suey? It was a horrible horrible ordeal. ANd i remember that day was the first day that I actually took 20 Dinars and  said the hell with it and bought a small bottle of Black Label--and I just drank myself drunk because I was so desperately sad and I swore up and down he wasn't going to come back alive. I ended busting my cell phone....

Jordanians tend to live there lives also by the words and opinions of others. THey care WAY too much about what other people think of them....and that's primarily why we chose to live in Amman where the rent was like 20 times higher then that of Jerash or Mafraq, because of his intruding mother who would come and knock on our door at 6 am in the morning asking to use his cell phone! And she even had the nerve to steal his phone and we he was awaiting human resources from a hotel to call him so he could get to work (we were both unemployed at that time).

If your husband loves you enough, he will say "FU$##DK them and go with you as much as possible on decisions and stuff. And if he did do something that made you really really mad, if he loves you truely, he will usually beg for you to forgive him and kiss your hand. Jordanians  can sometimes be oppressive, but when they love their wives, they quickly snap back. But you have to be very strong and show a lot of perserverence because people will only understand to the amount or scope of knowledge that they have and many of those Jordanian families  don't have a lot of education especially on other cultures (I'm talking families that are not from Amman and especially older people like in-laws)

Jordanian men need to know that
1. YOU are not Jordanian and so he has to agree to treat you as a foreigner -and not change that respect for you!

2. You have to be strong and let him know that hey, you need me more then I need you. Because when you show him that you are cheap and weak they can sometimes take advantage of that and put you on the needy end and that is not a good position to be in with reguards to a Jordanian/Western marriage relationship.

3. IT's good to let him know how much you appreciate him, say thank you and i love you a lot, but also make him respect you by making it clear that lies of any type are not allowed(Because they tend to be used to that habbit --many are not all but it 's a common habbit in jordan--lieing)*(When he lied to me about his sisters graduation thing I had my bags packed and was ready to leave)

4.You have to lead by example in using a certain tone of voice and a matter of fact way of discussing issues with him without attacking.

5. Jordanian men need to be the one who is in charge. If you don't like something he's deciding, you have to basically lure him in by silently okaying it, but showing him that you are totally not happy. Because sometimes they can be so stubborn.... So when you do go along with a decision that he wants and you don't, and he sees that you're just genuinely unhappy, if he's a good person and he really loves you, he won't go through with it, or he'll find a better solution.

6. Jordanian men tend to believe that it's okay to just throw wifey at home while he goes out on the town or whatever...this is a crappy way of thinking and it is a part of there culture, and you have to be the one to come in and say, I'm not  happy in this situation and i want us to go out together.

7. In the end, when he sees you are happy , he's happy. And if you are not happy, he will not be happy. But as far as the whole family and relatives stuff goes, the only solution to that is just to stay as far away from them as possibe --try to move back to your country, or go live out of Jordan somewhere because they will always interfere and intrude and sometimes you will swear up and down that your house is a hotel.


8. Jordanians are very passionate but they just need direction and you have to always make sure that the one you are with is true 100% and that he's worth your heart...because most of them are NOT...but when he IS...you will know...

Different cultures  in marriage definetly causes problems.  Both or at least one partner needs to be tolerant, if not it will usually end in divorce or a bitter marriage.  It doesn't matter whether you are rich or poor, educated or illiterate, to Jordanians family comes first.  Marrying a Jordanian man means you marry into his family and all the baggage that come with it.

I can't get rid of my in-laws no matter how hard I try to ignore them.  I have realized that no matter what I do, they will always give me their unwanted advice and try to interfere in our lives.  I try to be diplomatic and in the end I do what I want regardless of what they think or want.  In regards to my children, I let them visit but I draw the line when it comes to discipline and train of thought.  I don't let my in laws influence my kids and I have made it very clear that when it comes to me and my kids they have no say.  When it comes to my husband he can do whatever he wants, I don't care.  I am lucky that I have financial and moral support from my family, so that I remind my husband that I don't need him nor do I have the need to live here.  I am here because he wants me here.  I have my own interests and hobbies and my life does not revolve around him, so I really don't care about him going out with his friends or spending time with his family, so long as I am not obligated to spend time with them as well.  We are very different and I understand that he is influenced by his culture, so I just let him be himself.  The key is to have respect for one another even when you disagree.

I think culture in Jordan makes many marriages collapse,
It is war Love for your wife in one side ,Family,Money,Work and the Culture in the other side ,LOVE CAN NOT WIN..Sometimes it is better to be married to none Jordanian so u  can live with her happy.I have 2 brothers married to American and they live very happy with kids and like their Jobs for over 17 years ,in the other side I was married to a Jordanian ,ohh my lord ..it was war and I lost it,lost everything.I think if people see u happy with your wife,Job and life ...They ask why? they want to see u misery and will tell this not right,u should not spoil wife u should not buy her Gifts..until u fuck up then they say We did not say that we never interfere with ur life ..
In Jordan and Jordan only..54 % divorce in Jordan ..

That is so true. Jordanian marriages are not easy in general.
They are hard. And sometimes the husband is forced to make a decision, and if they really love one another more than life itself, I believe that it can work out. But in Jordan, and especially in Jordan life is soooo hard.

I have a question Kalamir...was money ever a factor in why you marriage didn't work out? If you don't mind me asking. Because yeah, I believe money keeps things together, but I don't believe it is an ultimate necessary thing to have in order to survive as a couple. I think no matter what the conditions are, a couple really can survive, even if it were in the streets or in the worst of cases.

MONEY makes life more comfortable, that is for sure. But it comes and goes.
I think buying a gift for the wife is almost a token and a way to show love and respect. But I think it comes mostly through quality time spent to gether more then anything. IF my  husband, here take a brand new Mercedes Benz, or me for an entire month without any distractions all to myself, I'd choose Fouad! -But that's me.

FoudsBaby Money in general is big factor in marriage to  succeed,or Fail..if u have love but broke u are not happy ,Money would help love and the marriage to succeed..For me it was People around me and around my xwife who fuck up our life.
I used to buy my wife gifts and we go out every night dinner dance whatever,Her family and my family saw us so happy they asked why ?
Like we have to be misery like them,People is Jordan they don't want to see u better than them ...Sick Mind

Sooo true... All his relatives just say to him, "Oh you married that American, and now look where you are...ect...-I hate them. Nobody believes that marriage should be based on love and mutual respect, and not how many $$$ you got in your bank. If you have money they love you, if you don't, they could care less about you . Nobody accepts marriage as being a religious act anymore.

Tell Foud to keep everything secret,and trust me things will go very smooth and very soon u will be together..NO one should know what u are doing around him..He better tell them,he is single and broke up w/u...he lives normal and keep ur communication to Minimum..Trust me if u do that ,,u will thank me later...

In my experience, Arab men are not (possibly unlike their western counterparts) looking to their wives for companionship. Sure, you marry into their families, but it doesn't make you any less of an outsider. One of my friends is Lebanese and has a Brit sister in law. That girl told my friend one day how close friends she felt they were and how, even if she hadn't married the brother, she felt they would have still found each other. My friend's comment was that while she really liked her sister-in-law, the truth is, if not for her brother marrying a white girl she would probably never have even met up with non Arab people, let alone made friends with them.

That, for me sums it up in a nutshell. Even if, as in my case, you find a relatively welcoming family in law (well, some of them at least), at the end of the day I was not looking to marry an extended family - just their brother/son, and from their side they were not looking to have an outsider in the family.

Also, in these big familes, there are lots of internal politics, stretching for generations.The best thing is to not get involved. Plus, while you might see your immediate family as you and your husband and children (typical western view), it's been my experience that his allegiance remains to his blood relatives, rather than to his wife/mother of his children.

Arab men seem to prefer the company of other men rather than their wives or children.It reminds me of western life back in the 1950s/60s, when women stayed at home with the children, and were in and out of each others houses during the day, while their men went out to work, came home for dinner and then were off out again. My grandfather was like that, always off to the darts, the pub, the rotary meetings, the allotment/gradening association. It seemed to me growing up that he was never home. In contrast my grandmother would always stay at home with the kids, except for once a week when she went off to some womens institute meeting.

The other thing that took me aback a bit first going to Amman was how they all tended to have deep discussions with their mothers rather than their wives. That took some getting used to, the way they could come and visit and talk to their mums for hours on end, yet couldn't even chat to their wives for 10 minutes.

Again, this is just my experience, but what I found is that daughter in laws have no status within the larger family. Well, perhaps they do once the older generation has all died off, but generally even their children have higher status. It seems to come down to blood ties. Provided you have very low expectations, and are prepared to live like ships that pass in the night and take the lion's share of the work for looking after hearth, home and the children, living in Amman would probably work out fine. Your mother in law is probably going to compete with you for her son, even if she doesn't see it this way. So if he is the kind of guy who wants to see here three or four days a week and then some, he is probably going to be eating with them and coming back late, while you and the children eat alone.

If you are used to a more western lifestyle, where our idea of the immediate family (i.e. husband, wife and children) always eat together/spend a fair bit of time with each other, and the extended family are only people you see every now and then, and usually together, my advice would be not to set up house in the country where his extended family live.

And notice I say country as opposed to city. They think nothing of travelling to another city and overnighting there, maybe not even ringing you to let you know they will be back very late, or not at all that night. Again, this was quite a shock to me initially. It certainly took a lot of getting used to.

Just from observing my large extended family in law, the impression I have, regardless of whomever they marry, is that Arab men want a wife and children because there is a lot of status attached to being married and a father, but it doesn't then follow that they want all the obligations (as western people think of them) that come with that. They still want to be free spirits, free to come and go as they please, to work only if they feel like it and when they want, not out of an obligation to support their immediate family.

One of the times I was living in Amman I had a Chinses friend and she told me, of her Arab husband, who seemed like a really nice guy "Yes, he's nice, but put it this way. If it were a choice between buying bread for us and cigarettes for himself, he'd buy the cigarettes. that to me sums up Arab men perfectly. Like I say, it will be fine living in Amman with the extended family, provided you have very low expectations.

Money can be a really emotive issue. Say you do have more money than most of the extended family, maybe all of them. On the one hand, things are tight and they do need more money, but when there's a perception that you as a westerner are the source of the money, (misleading in itself, because if you and your husband have been living overseas for any length of time, then the money is actually attributable to both of you, not just the native western person), well, I could be misinterpreting this, but some of them seemed to look down on me for having money, as though I was somehow less spiritual or something.

And do learn the language. You're going to have to have quite an independent life, so you're probably going to need it.

The post really really touched me Deb. I feel for you 100%.
And I have to post this link, and it will help you to even more, understand how deeply I have a problem in that I love my husband too much, that it almost destroyed me a couple times:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJYcmq__nDM  (RIhanna--Rehab)

But there is one thing, that I have been trying to do with him. And that is to get him used to the fact, that --that whole way..doesn't work with me, and that I'm not happy at all with his thinking that he can just throw me in the house and leave me and come whenever he feels like it while I'm just waiting all day for him to get back. ThAT I'd have to say , honestly was THE THE hardest thing and is still an on-going struggle for me. Because when you love your husband to a point...like I love mine, that type of lifestyle can drive you do drink. And I remember. one time very clearly, it literally did. And I never drank before hardly ever in my life. I remember that it was a Friday, and it was like the ONLY day I had seen him in for weeks. And we had plans and we had just bought shwaarmah and were on our way to buy us work clothes. And all of a sudden, his phone rang...GOD forbid it when his phone rings. I HATE his phone so badly. And his cousin was on the other end, giving him the news that his younger brother was in the hospital, and was involved in a major car accident. So he automatically turned the car around faster then hell, and I asked to go with him, and he said no and he was screamin and telling me how he was afraid that his dad was going to go and KILL the guy who caused the accident with his son(Fouad's brother). HE was assuming that his brother was dieing and that people were mourning him. I asked to go. He just refused and I was so so so scared, to the point, that I was sure, that he wasn't going to come back to Amman that day alive. (His family lives in Jerash about  1 hour and some away.) I was expecting him to get involved in this mess and end up getting shot in the middle of a tribal WAR. And instead of him investigating, and asking more questions about his brother, no he just dropped me off like garbage at our apartment, food still not even touched, and we hadn't eaten anything in 18 hours. And I was crying, and just so upset and scared and begging him to take me with him- he just ignored me, and he didn't give a damn to tell me anything, and he was very harsh with me, and up till this day, it is painful to remember this day. Because I remember I just sat on the bathroom floor crying and crying until I turned numb.  And I remember I had just got paid. And even though my entire paycheck was going towards the rent, I took 25 JDs, and went and bought me a small bottle of Black Label. And before I got to the liquor store, I went to the police station crying and just so scared like I felt like nobody in Amman could help me in my horrible mess that I was in. I just felt so scared so I kept begging them to call his cousin who is a sgt with the Jordan FBI (Bahth Al Juna'i ". --WHo is like our best friend, and the only one I truely trust and that he truely trusts ( he had just changed his number so I didn't have it). And I was just a mess, and then I just gave up and  continued on to the liquor store, the guy there just looked at me in pity as i went in and went out. I went home, smashed my phone against the wall, into pieces, and drank until I passed out. I woke up, and I had no idea where I was or what I happened. it was like 7 pm at night. So I put what little of my phone i could back together, and he called right away, and just told me that his brother only suffered minor injuries and that he was awake and okay. WELL HELL...ALL OF THAT and I was just dumped off like  I had no importance in his life.

IT IS so hard, to be in love with someone, who doesn't seem to love you as much as you love them. IT is so hard. It is so so so hard. IT can cause a person, to loose their mind. I guess it is wrong, harmful, to be still as emotional as I do about this(this happened in october, but I can't really make him understand how much that day impacted me.  IT's really hard and like I said, almost a punishment sometimes when you love your husband to the point where you literally suffer, when he's not around. For me, I'm the ALL or nothing person. If I can't love him, entirely, then I'll just freeze up, and do whatever I can to forget about him. So I just  give in and love him so much. I honestly, don't know how much he loves me....but it scares me to know the truth, if it isn't as much as I. I look Arab, and I speak the language,  most people think I'm from the gulf and don't believe that I'm from the states because of my clean khaliji accent-and I understand their dialect (bedouin) so I know everything that is said about me, and I know how to defend myself against really vindictive people like his mother who has already tried her damnedest to break our marriage up. We never tell his family where we live simply because of his mother. I always encourage him to go visit her whenever he wants, but he doesn't really have a close relationship with her at all, and they are not on talking terms right now. But his Maternal Aunt, and I are like best friends, and I can cry to her, tell her some problems, she's like amazing, and  very lax on so much, we joke about all the "taboo" stuff and just laugh for hours and hours. So she's like the "Sheikha" of the family, because my father-in-law loves her so much to a point that he values her opinion in everything. So we are cut off from his family, because of his mother. Otherwise I always loved my father in-law, and vice versa.  I love Fouad's sisters and brothers, - they all love me...but it's just because of his mom that we don't see each other. And all the people in his village don't understand her either. So it's not just the typical jealous mother-in-law thing. She has serious issues and doesn't get along with anybody. And the problem is this too, in Jordan you can't tell anybody about this stuff, or else your business will be ALLL over the entire country. So You just have to stay silent, and you know and just complain to God or another foreigner . It's so hard. Just so hard. It's painful more then anything, and I don't know if they realize how much it affects us, that we need that companionship, and we need them to let us know that we are important and to show us that part by spending quality time with us and "conntecting" with us. Old couples will always say that the key to their marriage lasting 50 years was, "Just making time to always "connect" and to laugh about old things that happend before. I think there is a good advice my Palestinian Friend t (her name is Sa'ada) She said< "You're husband is how you get him accustomed." *Translated from Arabic) So If from the beginning you spoil him and make him feel that it's okay for him to stay out long nights ect...and not come back at a reasonable time. and you don't set limits from the beginning, then you will have a grim future. BUt it's just about being honest and our problems are sometimes stemmed to that we don't like to see them upset or angry. But they have to know that it's a PARTNERSHIP and not a dictatorship. And they can argue themselves around it all they want, but in the end, they know that it is WRONG to do that, to go to his family instead of eating dinner with the wife and kids.

I know a Jordanian lady though.See this could really go both ways, and it all depends on how we are at home. I notice that if I'm always sad and unhappy when he's there, that he'll stay away longer and make excuses not to come home. But if I fake my smile and try to make a good time for him when he gets home,then he's going to come home more and more. See I knew a Jordanian couple, who her husband was ALWAYS at home, and he always ate with his wife and kids. So really it could be that he's not happy and then you aren't happy and you try to communicate that and he just runs away.  SO what I do, is say, I love you but I'm not  happy because we don't go out anymore like we used to, and because I feel like we have no relationship...ect...so usually that helps. Also they are very very big about us being all dolled up when they get home, and they hate nagging. WE want to talk and vent, but they consider our talking and venting as NAGGING. THAT sucks. So what I say is, I'm not nagging, but if you don't let me speak my mind to you, I will explode, so just listen and don't get mad. And that sorta helps. He might feel like I'm pointing the finger at him, but then I'll say, but I'm not built that way. I can't handle being alone without you all the time. THis is not a marriage, this is not a relationship, and that we have to work on this part. I'll say, go visit so and so or bring them here, but please give me your time too in return. You know--that usually helps when we talk things out like that. Sometimes when I mention things that happend in the past, that I didn't get a closure on, usually he will apologize and say he's sorry. I told him that day that whole Friday incident happend, I told him that if that happend again, that I'd be gone. Because later on-his Aunt asked me why I wasn't there at the hospital. I said, because he didn't let me go.

So alot of times, what I'll do, when I notice him happy -that I try to talk, I'll try to find a good time, and just be as sincere as I can....But it's hard when they are constantly gone or working.

Really your post touched a spot, that I feel so emotional about it....it's hard...I think they don't realize how much we suffer....I really don't. I think sometimes they belittle us as humans with feelings, and minds, and hearts....but when they love you, they will do what they can not to lose you. Because despite all the cultural garbage, they will come around when the see they are losing the one they love. And they will realize sooner or later that is has to be a give and take situation, not just an "I take all" situation.

deb568, my experiences have been the same as yours and I hope those who read this forum realize that living in Amman, Jordan and visiting are very different. Before I moved here and visited, I was unaware of how these extended families lived. 

You have given an accurate picture of how Jordanian men in general treat their wives(foreign and arab).  My inlaws treat their wives in the same manner and expect their wives to take care of everything while they come and go as they please. 

So unless you can live in this manner in which you have next to nil status within the extended family , I strongly suggest you live as far away as possible from his extended family.   Best option is in another country.

If for some reason you are living in Amman then you should definetly learn the language and learn how to get around on your own.  Most likely there will be times when you will be alone with your kids so you should get to know all the places you can go with your kids so you won't be bored at home. 

Try to make friends among other expats because the locals will smile and seem to be your friend, but you will never be accepted among them.

I totally understand where you come from as well Winter....

It's so hard. That's our main reasons for living in Amman and not telling anyone our whereabouts or even where we live, because we just don't want that headache, niether him NOR I.

One time, when we first got married, his parents showed up at my house at like 7AM in the morning and I was soooooo P!$$'d because they just walked in like they owned the place.

F *%K that noise...I won't deal with it, all the in-laws do is create problems.
So we just tell them that we're both always at work and that we work late so nobody asks to come by.

And they always ask for money, when they know you barely make the rent. I totally hate being around them. His brothers are halfway decent. But is mom...don't get me started....

We are happy in Amman, because his family lives too far away to come to our place.

I think our marriages with Arabs are hard, but when you stick to your guns, and tell them, "Hey, I'm not Jordanian, and I never will be, so if you accept me, great, if not, Good bye. And usually they will compromise and not just leave you stranded by yourself constantly. If they really love you, they won't pull crap like that, they'll come by and want to spend time with you, especially if they feel like you hardly have time for them, then it's like opposites attract. But that's really hard to do still...to just be by yourself all day. But when I say, "Hey Im going to go hang out in Abdoun, then they get all jealous and then they end up WANTING to spend time together...

This is what I'm going to do this time around.

I'm going to have a schedule, and just make myself so busy everyday, job searching, walking, running errands...cooking...just anything to make my time fly...and then by the time I get home, I'll be so beat that I won't care when he comes back, and I won't be watching the clock the entire time. When you sit at home, constantly, time really sucks, and it just makes you miserable. So I'm also going to maybe invest in a good book or two as well, reading is another wonderful way, to focus our minds on other things.

But they have to some how get the signal that "HEY, I'm not happy, and this constant space that we have isn't working for me- we need to compromise and agree on something here." But only pull that card when you really feel like he's not being fair. Because it isn't fair. And that's why marriages fail because of ignorance and miscommunication. WE as wives might feel completely out of control- but in reality-we have more power then we think-and WE are the ones that drive the marriage a certain way. Look at it as- we are the world, and he's the car, so we can change the world and our roads and make dead ends so that his car can't drive where we don't want it too...with planning, and investment. They like fun, and happiness, they don't like nagging and anger and negativity anytime from us, and if they feel that, then they will just keep finding excuses to stay away. So we have to make ourselves happy so that they'll want to come and be apart of that. Plus, another thing is this. We tend to look ugly to our  husbands when we are constantly unhappy, and resentful, all because we don't get that time together. So I think when we ourselves are really happy, they tend to want to come in our direction more...so you have to break the vicious cycle some how--by just finding a way to be happy alone, and making him really enjoy his time when he does get home. That's the only way to get what you want with Arab men....and if they still don't get it, and then you show you don't care either way, he'll eventually snap back and miss you. But ofcourse everyone's marriage and situations are different, some marriages just are not happy no matter how many roses you throw into it...I've been there....but one day your happiness will come, whether it be with him, or someone else. I sincerely believe in that.

some of the posts are quite long wich I couldn't read. But in short, I myself consult my wife for everything I'd like to do beacause her opinion is really important. she's not far away from me but we live together and she who knows me better. now Jordainian men are closer to thier wives than before. that's true

SherriO wrote:

FuoadsBaby,  I think you just described "Men" in general!  Not just Arabs.  Arab men probably have the family-social network that makes them spend more time with their extended family, but is it really any different than American men "hanging-out" with their "buddies", at the gym, bars, sports, etc.?  Most men do not respond well to "nagging".  And the Venus vs. Mars issue has alot to do with how they handle their responses.

I am glad you are returning to Jordan!  I hope we get to meet-up sometime as well!

Yeah that'd be wonderful to get together sometime!!!
Yeah, men do socialize alot in general. I think it's true what Arman said, that men are now closer to their wives then before in the past. In the end it kind of depends on us and how we are with them at home and what kind of energy we send off to them. I think sometimes it's difficult when they send negative energy, and then we tend to absorb it and then reflect it back so it becomes this vicious cycle of just anger and resentment. I'm going to do that as one of my new goals and  challenges. Everytime I get negativity from him, whether its a "no" I'm too busy for you, or anything, I'm going to try to just do the opposite and just laugh it off. And I'll see what happens....

Maybe some things just improve, with regard to the extended family, over time. Some of the people who were in their 20s when I first met them are now grandparents. In the beginning, they probably all think you are some rich westerner, but over time, they come to understand that money for us is just like it is for them. It comes and goes.

But you do get situations though. Sorry for the length of this post, but this is a fairly typical saga. I don't usually sugar the tea, because they all like it heaps sweeter than us, but they usually sugar it in the pot, for everyone. So, when this first happened, and they drank our tea, they went back to the family, and told them "There was no sugar in the tea. The sugar was there, we could put it in, they make the tea really strong, but we were shy to take too much sugar because we were scared they ran out of money and that this was all the sugar they had to last them for the month." This happens a few times, different visitors coming and seeing our small sugar bowl.

So, the next week, my Mum-in-Law comes with money. A daft amount of money - 100JD. In our family that's an insane amount. I can feed our family on 1JD for a whole meal. There's no chance under the sun, moon or stars that my man would be taking money from his Mum - he gives her money. I asked her what she wanted me to do with the money. Did she want my husband to go and buy a sheep with it? It was enough, in those days, for nearly two, so I just assumed. But she is going on at me (and they shout when they try to make a point!) "Sugar, sugar, you need to buy sugar." My Arabic isn't that good, and certainly not then, but I did get the point. So I go into the kitchen and show her the sugar. This isn't a jar of sugar, mind you. It's in a container the size of a medium waste paper bin. 

She leave's the money, and goes. I try to give it back to her, but this is a formidable woman we are talking about. Definitely one who does her own thing. Time goes by. My hubby is out God knows where, "ahlaning and salahning" (meeting and greeting) with his mates. A sister in law comes by. I'm drinking tea, with maryameer (sage), not much sugar, in the sun, on the roof. She tells me Mum wants me to go over their house to eat, because she is worried because I am home alone (and presumably don't know how to turn the gas on? Give me a break, peeps!) You know what she tells me "Mum wants you to buy sugar, not meat." Excuse me?! I'm buying how much sugar with 100JD? Enough for the next ten years?

So I show her the sugar. She's amazed. Says do I realise that the whole family is talking about how we are so poor we don't even have enough for sugar. Then - and this is where it gets really political, she asks me how much money Mum brought. So I told her. I've got nothing to hide. Between themselves they may all exist in a complex hierarchy and tribal structure but to me they are just one family.

She was really shocked. At a time when she can't afford even school jotters and pencils for her children and Mum gives the money to our family, who certainly don't need it, instead of her's. I would have been shocked in her shoes too, whatever the cultural background. I'm a practical person. She needs jotters for a school that starts in two days time, and I for sure am swimming in sugar. So I say to her, "Come on, lets go downstairs and buy jotters." But she told me, (can you believe this?!), that she couldn't accept it and I shouldn't plan on doing this - that it would cause a really big problem in the family if I use the money for her immediate family.

My husband comes home - time's ticking by now, and asks where does the money come from. Ya salaam, hello my darling husband to you too, I think to myself. "it's a lot, isn't it", I tell him. And shut up. Why tell him the whole saga when there's another sister in law on hand who can explain it all (it's SO much more dramatic in Arabic than in English) ten times faster and in far more detail than I can.

I could really see his dilemma. He can't give it back, because she'll be really insulted. He can't keep it either, because then the whole family will think we are down and out, can't afford to eat and start arriving with all kinds of bits and pieces for us. I say I wanted to buy jotters, but he says, no, impossible. This would insult his brother. Younger brother, mind you, but the politics are subtle and complex.

The sister in law's wee boy comes looking for us, saying Mum wants us to come. He tells him "Go back, and bring me my father." When in doubt, forget the women - it's another man's opinion that counts. And me he tells to make tea. So. I make the tea. Without sugar. And bring it to the table with the glasses and, you guessed it, the sugar bowl. The sister in law comes in with me. So I'm talking to the sugar bowl "You see what you did? You going to be famous sugar bowl one day. You very powerful sugar bowl. You got style, man." We go out and my sister in law is asking him what I said to the sugar bowl. This is his translation: "When my wife filled the sugar bowl, she was telling it that her sugar bowl is like a well, with vast resources, just like Saudi Arabian oil." 

His Dad came, not shy about helping himself to the sugar at all (thank goodness) but he wouldn't take the money. He told my husband "No, thank you. You are not dragging me into this. This is between your mother and your wife. Good luck with that, my son."

At this point I got a little bit mad. I told the Dad, who speaks a bit of English that the day I can't afford sugar isn't going to arrive any time soon and since the money is there, why don't the children have what they need for school? Not really a smart move in a way, because, politics again, - while they all know our business inside and out, it doesn't mean his other son would want me to know theirs.

My father in law is quite a wise man. It took me a while (as in several months) to realise my mother in law doesn't really go along with the daughters in law, so kind of tries to make it look like the daughters in law, who have none of their own resources, can't manage their own families. Different nephew now, but he asks the nephew, "what do you still need for school?" and gives him the money enough to get sorted for everyone. This it turns out, is fine. Because Jido (grandfather) is buying it, he's the head of the family, none of the women including his wife, will interfere. Problem solved.

The months go by, but my mother in law is always worried about our food situation. I ask my husband why and he says "It's because you don't eat much meat when there's meat. Eat more meat. Make her happy." Oh for goodness sake. Mansaf? The size of the chunks of meat makes me feel like a tiger every time it is on the menu. I wasn't convinced.

Two years later, I asked my father in law. All this started with the sugar bowl, but what exactly "started" and why is it not really over in Mum's mind even now? Oh my goodness, when finally he gives me the real explanation I was too shocked for words. I tell you now, nowhere is this explanation (which is probably obvious to Arabs) in my thoughts.

It wasn't about sugar at all - it was about bread. Because it seemed we were short of sugar, they came to the logical conclusion among themselves that perhaps we couldn't afford bread. And because this family is poor and Bedouin, not going hungry is really important to them. Since my husband is a very proud man, and the eldest son, no one can broach this subject. And the men cannot give him money because it's inappropriate within their family structure. He inherits (a different saga, not resolved to this day to my satisfaction) so therefore money cannot go to him directly in the normal course of events, except from his Dad, and my husband - well, hell would freeze over before he accepted money from his parents. They all discussed this problem. For a few days, mind you. Why have a discussion among two people - that's not a "Discussion" - when you can involve 30 or 40??!!

So they decided Mum would give me the money - because I am a western woman, muslim yes, but westerners like money so I will grab it with both hands. Then they will somehow make sure my husband knows. And he couldn't then give it back once I had accepted it. Of course she was panicked about it, because if I don't then hoard it and eke it out for bread as an emergency fund,(like they all do, in other words) the problem would not be solved. But finally she agreed. Why is the money so much? Because they each put in a little bit.

When I didn't take the money, Mum wanted to give it back to all of the ones who contributed, but they said no, to keep it, for a rainy day. Then finally, 18 months or so later, someone in the family needed it for a hospital bill and medicine. 

All these years later, sometimes my father in law asks me how is my sugar bowl and I tell him it is talking to the bread.

culture - relgion - langauge has got great influence in family life.. come to india..! I will show you 1000 varies of life.... with 1.2 billion people 10 relgion and cross cultural marriages and cross relgional marriages! some time marraige looks wonderful and some time it makes life miserable... i can give lot of first hand account of this - though my marriage is wonderful..good subject... but many men avoid to talk and i am ready to talk!!!!!!! lol..

hello livekrish,

This is a pretty old thread.

You are welcome to start a new one.

Melissa

i got a update for this.. that is why i responded... now, it is not visible!?? how come??

@livekrish- what do you mean, it is not visible? Thank you

some one posted a comment and i was discussing.. now, it is not seen.. and my comments are available..i am searching my mail for the exact post.. but - i beleive - i deleted and in thrash box not available! lol